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AFL (Aussie Rules) 2013 |OT| See the Bombers Shoot Up, Up
- Thread starter fisheyes
- Start date
Hird won't be going down after this revelation.
There is no revelation.
We've known for yonks that ASADA mistakenly told people at the beginning of this year that AOD-9604 was not banned under S2.
I'm just going to copy exactly what I said on BigFooty because there's no point typing it all out again:
No idea why people are clinging to this. It changes absolutely nothing. Reminds me of Wheatley on the night Essendon were charged saying "No drug charges, I repeat, no drug charges." Then the next day happened.
What ASADA told the AFL in February 2013 has absolutely zero bearing on whether AOD-9604 is a banned drug (which it clearly is), or whether Essendon were justified in using it.
The smoking gun would ASADA telling Essendon in February 2011 that it was clear to use.
Until we get some proof that Essendon had contact with ASADA before or during the time of their drugs program, I'm still going to believe the following:
- AOD9604 is a banned drug (as confirmed by WADA, the sole arbiter of deciding whether drugs are banned)
- Dank asked WADA if he was allowed to use it, was told it may be banned under S0 and to check with ASADA to see if it has regulatory approval.
- There is zero proof Essendon/Dank received that clearance from ASADA.
- Essendon proceeded to use AOD9604 in their drug program.
Some guy on the Essendon payroll coming out and saying they didn't do anything wrong is no different to the last six months.
In other words, showmetherceipts.fig
We've known for yonks that ASADA mistakenly told people at the beginning of this year that AOD-9604 was not banned under S2.
I'm just going to copy exactly what I said on BigFooty because there's no point typing it all out again:
No idea why people are clinging to this. It changes absolutely nothing. Reminds me of Wheatley on the night Essendon were charged saying "No drug charges, I repeat, no drug charges." Then the next day happened.
What ASADA told the AFL in February 2013 has absolutely zero bearing on whether AOD-9604 is a banned drug (which it clearly is), or whether Essendon were justified in using it.
The smoking gun would ASADA telling Essendon in February 2011 that it was clear to use.
Until we get some proof that Essendon had contact with ASADA before or during the time of their drugs program, I'm still going to believe the following:
- AOD9604 is a banned drug (as confirmed by WADA, the sole arbiter of deciding whether drugs are banned)
- Dank asked WADA if he was allowed to use it, was told it may be banned under S0 and to check with ASADA to see if it has regulatory approval.
- There is zero proof Essendon/Dank received that clearance from ASADA.
- Essendon proceeded to use AOD9604 in their drug program.
Some guy on the Essendon payroll coming out and saying they didn't do anything wrong is no different to the last six months.
In other words, showmetherceipts.fig
The drug wasn't even S0 last year according to wada. That they made it so this year is irrelevant when it wasn't taken this year and it isn't performance enhancing, nor was it prohibited when they took it.
End of story
Afl got the same advice Essendon received from asada. Essendon did their research and asada fucked up, then the afl tried to retrospectively apply asadas arse coverage.
I'm sure your bigfooty comments are representative of the general nonsense on that site. Especially when you are still going by an incorrect version of events.
End of story
Afl got the same advice Essendon received from asada. Essendon did their research and asada fucked up, then the afl tried to retrospectively apply asadas arse coverage.
I'm sure your bigfooty comments are representative of the general nonsense on that site. Especially when you are still going by an incorrect version of events.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...d-9604-is-banned/story-e6frg7mf-1226627233661
Please link me to the proof that Essendon received any advice from ASADA prior to February 2013.
Please link me to the proof that Essendon received any advice from ASADA prior to February 2013.
Why? any statements would just be from people on Essendons pay roll.
AFL charge sheet. Which has plenty of detail.
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2013/08/21/1226701/279388-hs-essendon-pdf.pdf
Edit: Presser now from the AFL on Essendon, meeting tomorrow with the other clubs. I expect Essendon to get the punt from the finals at a minimum.
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2013/08/21/1226701/279388-hs-essendon-pdf.pdf
Edit: Presser now from the AFL on Essendon, meeting tomorrow with the other clubs. I expect Essendon to get the punt from the finals at a minimum.
I love how legend says 'show me the receipts' without a hint of irony when it is standard principle of natural justice to be afforded innocent til proven otherwise assumptions.
Where are your receipts first? Where is the afls?
They have demonstrated nothing but incompetence and conflicts of interest since day one, along with copious amounts of leakage to their approved rumour mongers at fairfax.
Where are your receipts first? Where is the afls?
They have demonstrated nothing but incompetence and conflicts of interest since day one, along with copious amounts of leakage to their approved rumour mongers at fairfax.
Read the document I linked above, you think that is all fictitious?
Notice how none of the charges are for taking banned substances. Only for exposing players to the risk of using banned substances.
Read between the lines: they cant charge them for taking them, they haven't got the evidence (yet, if any exists), and yet the media has been slandering them as drug cheats all year long.
The tables are about to turn and Essendon is going to embarrass a lot of the commentariat.
Read between the lines: they cant charge them for taking them, they haven't got the evidence (yet, if any exists), and yet the media has been slandering them as drug cheats all year long.
The tables are about to turn and Essendon is going to embarrass a lot of the commentariat.
Uhh, Vince, in the context of what I'm talking about (i.e. Essendon claiming they were given the all clear to use AOD9604) the burden of proof is clearly on Essendon to provide that evidence. That's what I mean about show me the receipts.
Anyway, that charge sheet and letter from Bruce Reid is incredibly damning. I can't believe you guys still have the blinders on. Throw the crooks out of your club and start rebuilding its reputation.
Anyway, that charge sheet and letter from Bruce Reid is incredibly damning. I can't believe you guys still have the blinders on. Throw the crooks out of your club and start rebuilding its reputation.
you're still not flagging in the charges sheet any illegal activity or substances being flagged in there as banned?
We have the "blinders" on, because all we usually hear is DRUG CHEATS.
yet the charges are nothing to do with "drugs" they're all allogations surrounding poor business conduct and a faulty HR system.
don't even get me started on why Hirds in charge of the HR process.. that just confuses me.
Have you lost any and all ability to read?
"The Thymosin referred to on the Patient Information/Informed Consent forms and
administered to the players was:
(a) Thymosin Beta-4 which is prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the
World Anti-Doping Code (the relevant facts in relation to this allegation are set out
in Annexure A to this Notice of Charge); alternatively
(b) a substance in respect of which the Club had failed to reasonably satisfy itself was
not prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code."
"The Thymosin referred to on the Patient Information/Informed Consent forms and
administered to the players was:
(a) Thymosin Beta-4 which is prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the
World Anti-Doping Code (the relevant facts in relation to this allegation are set out
in Annexure A to this Notice of Charge); alternatively
(b) a substance in respect of which the Club had failed to reasonably satisfy itself was
not prohibited by the AFL Anti-Doping Code and the World Anti-Doping Code."
124. During the relevant period, the Club caused the following substances to be administered
to players at the Club:
(a) Actovegin;
(b) unspecified amino acids
(c) unspecified multi-vitamins;
(d) AOD-9604 creams;
(e) AOD-9604 injections;
(f) Cerebrolysin;
(g) Colostrum;
(i) Lactaway;
(j) Lube-all-plus;
(k) Melatonin;
(l) Melanotan II;
(m) TA-65;
Thymosin Beta 4;
(o) Traumeel; and
(p) Tribulus.
to players at the Club:
(a) Actovegin;
(b) unspecified amino acids
(c) unspecified multi-vitamins;
(d) AOD-9604 creams;
(e) AOD-9604 injections;
(f) Cerebrolysin;
(g) Colostrum;
(i) Lactaway;
(j) Lube-all-plus;
(k) Melatonin;
(l) Melanotan II;
(m) TA-65;
Thymosin Beta 4; (o) Traumeel; and
(p) Tribulus.
Poor governance from the AFL, Demetrio needs to fall on his sword, if anyone has brought the game into disrepute it's the AFL leaking all that bullshit to their media lapdogs in Caro and the other dogs.
Lol @ him if he thinks any of the 4 charged and Little are going to back down, he's going down with them.
*knock blues out next week*
*knock richmond out week 1*
*soften the fuck outta the extra salary cap tossers*
*end up playing a part in demetrio falling on his sword*
Would be better than 2000, fuck them.
I thought it was what Melbourne took during the tanking commision! hohohoh
He doesn't have any evidence. The asada interim report cites no banned drug use. Which makes you wonder what exactly they can investigate? Governance is not their department.
Let's not forget it's illegal to publish anyASADA findings without the persons permission (regarding evidence) oh wait.
also: http://www.essendonfc.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/Essendon/Club HQ/Revised statement of grounds.pdf
revised statement that the AFL and essendon agreed upon.
the one linked earlier was the DRAFT the afl put to essendon, and then decided to release today even though this one had been worked on between essendon and the AFL.
smh AFL.
And you remind me of caroline wilson and her shit flinging defamatory statements without evidence. Restating the charges made by the afl in their heavily compromised process is not facts.
And now you decide to equate it to defending rapists. Not forgetting your club has a history of doing exactly that, I'm not shocked logic isn't a strong feature in your arguments.
ASADA have not indicted any players.
The AFL knew the AOD wasn't a banned substance in 2011/12 when it was being used (allegedly)
And if this new mystery mexican drug was being used, players would and should have been charged for doing so
There are no drug charges here for actual use of any of them, only allegations of an environment where they may have been at risk of being used.
Talk about moving goalposts.
Essendon have admitted to a running a 'cutting edge' 'supplements' program that had a complete lack of oversight.
We then have documented proof in the form of emails and text messages of the sports scientists employed at Essendon using a convicted drug dealer to supply him with large quantities of banned drugs.
And yet, to you, 2+2=5.
We then have documented proof in the form of emails and text messages of the sports scientists employed at Essendon using a convicted drug dealer to supply him with large quantities of banned drugs.
And yet, to you, 2+2=5.
Don't try and make mathematical analogies after your opening line.
Cutting edge does not equal illegal. You're doing disingenuous markups to the supposed goings on. Or, more aptly, you are walking up to someone who was peering over the edge and given them a nudge before yelling 'GUILTY!'
Documented proof? Out of context. If 'we' have documented proof, ASADA have it. Why haven't they issued charges yet? Can you answer that? No.
I know you probably won't read this but an excerpt from the Essendon chairman's notes today:
http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2013-08-21/paul-little-statement
I don't know why Essendon fans get so defensive. If someone/some people at my club injected players with an unknown Mexican supplement that belonged to someone with muscular dystrophy I would be pissed off at all the people at the top for endangering the players and allowing it to happen. I would want to see changes and the people involved made to answer for it. That's regardless of the AOD shit, which while it doesn't seem is illegal, seems shady as fuck as well.
Either way the sooner it's all done with the better, it's harming the code.
Either way the sooner it's all done with the better, it's harming the code.
No one is saying it wasn't poorly governed.
IF Essendon did inject them with illegal, performance enhancing drugs a la Lance Armstrong etc, then the club can GAGF. That's been my stance since day 1.
However, the evidence to date says that did not happen. ASADA haven't laid charges after all.
I don't know why non-Essendon fans throw out the principle of innocent til proven guilty.
We're pissed because claims like that is a load of bullshit, just like The Weapon's claim about the police raiding Hird's house, denied the next morning by the Police. Oh but Weapon still gets his 120k and a bunch of gullible fools eat that shit up and parrot it around.
Wow, wonder why we're so defensive?
16 > 15 and you aint seeing 16 for a long time.
That's rich coming from a supporter of a club whose players have associated with murderers.
Agreed, if it gets to that being hte case then fuck the club for ruining the careers of 20+ young men.
but it hasn't.
I'm sorry we're so defensive, but if you were called a child molesting rapist for 7 months by the media, but no charges were ever laid, heck no evidence ended up being put forward. wouldn't you be pissed?
I wouldn't be happy with my club injecting players with dubious substances. At least one player has admitted being injected with AOD which seems dubious at best. Everything surrounding the mystery substance among others, that might come out in due time.
Take a deep breath, realise that the whole world isn't out to get you, and that your club fucked up. The AFL and the media didn't make your club implement a shitty supplements program.
Take a deep breath, realise that the whole world isn't out to get you, and that your club fucked up. The AFL and the media didn't make your club implement a shitty supplements program.
I really need to change my avatar.
I'm not a Collingwood supporter.
Feel free to direct your taunts to me as a Hawthorn supporter
lmao, here's the mystery substance.
Glad to know the AFL's last ditch PR stunt is paying dividends.
Neither would we.
But not illegal, nor banned according to ASADA, which the AFL knew about.
So, where are the receipts? ASADA could lay charges now or when they finalise their report. But not before, and in the interim it is speculation and defamation.
Fairfax is. Theyve been winding themselves up since day dot, itching to take down Caroling Wilson's nemesis.
Classic logical fallacy: you are conflating bad governance with drug cheating. Like the media, like the AFL.
Innocence til proven guilty is an alien concept to many, it would seem.
Oh, so you support a club with players known to have taken illicit substances then, which are prohibited.
Yeah, pretty predictable comeback
Problem with your argument is that the AFL rules have been followed in that scenario. Hawthorn also didn't implement a program to administer those drugs to players
Lets have a look at one substance that was administered, as said by the AFL.
AOD-9604.
It is banned.
That's not to mention Thymosin Beta 4. That's banned too
Melanotan II is also illegal in this country if I'm not mistaken.
I feel sorry for Essendon supporters and to a degree their players. I do not feel in the slightest bit sorry for the Club as represented by the coaches and, since this came to light, the Board.
Predictable comeback too.
If those drugs are illegal and were administered, prove it and ban them accordingly. As it stands, no charges have been laid, which makes me suspect that they are just throwing out names of substances without proof as to the extent, if any, they were used.
ASADA gave the all clear with regards to AOD in 2011/12, and only changed their tune after Feb this year.
Now - the other interesting point I have to point out, although can't take credit for noting it:
By this metric, the AFL itself is guilty because they hired Dank and Robinson for the Gold Coast Suns after they left Essendon this year.
If those drugs are illegal and were administered, prove it and ban them accordingly. As it stands, no charges have been laid, which makes me suspect that they are just throwing out names of substances without proof as to the extent, if any, they were used.
ASADA gave the all clear with regards to AOD in 2011/12, and only changed their tune after Feb this year.
Now - the other interesting point I have to point out, although can't take credit for noting it:
By this metric, the AFL itself is guilty because they hired Dank and Robinson for the Gold Coast Suns after they left Essendon this year.
And isn't Bomber being brought under charges for hiring them with out proper investigation / looking into their references?
Let's call the club whom Robinson worked for before GC to ask them for their references.
Well, where were they working before Essendon? Is this a rabbit hole the AFL is going to diligently excavate? Or do they only have interest in one club right now?
Exactly!
(Mine was also a joke
He worked at Geelong previously under Bomber, lololol)ASADA never gave the all clear for AOD.
Regardless, I think the AFL are charging you with 'sailing too close to the wind' really.
The charge sheet reflects this.
The AFL would have evidence to create this charge sheet, they aren't that unprofessional to just knock it up with nothing to back it up.
We also don't know what penalties they want to apply. That was up for discussion but Essendon didn't want to come to the party
Hird and Co. were warned off using peptides, still did it anyway. Plus kept it hidden from the club doctor and the AFLPA.
I reckon if Hird had stood down at the beginning when this broke it would have been over by now from the AFL's point of view - ASADA and WADA a different matter.
Remember that the interim report was never about proving guilt of players and issuing infractions. I reckon that is still coming
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