Somehow I'm not surprised at people complaining about a really good character episode. The show doesn't spend every single second on some over-arching story arc? Better drop it.
That's not my problem. I watch Castle, I've watched a hell of a lot of CSI and NCIS, I used to love mothership Law and Order. I'm one of the many who felt that the non-arc episodes of the X-Files (my favorite show ever) were far superior to the arc episodes. I'm not a procedural hater.
The difference between those shows and SHIELD is that I found the characters and situations interesting in those other shows. I still don't really care about any of these characters. Yes, we know more about May, but I don't find her compelling in the least. Ward might as well be a cardboard cutout. I find Skye annoying beyond belief. I feel like the actors who play Fitz and Simmons are doing a great job when the writing works, but it often falls flat. And the problem with Coulson is that he generally works best as a foil to a more bombastic character, which doesn't really exist in this show, so his lowkey nature doesn't really work in the context.
I believe you've argued in the past that SHIELD has really great writing. I respectfully disagree at this point. Yes, we're learning more about the characters, but it's often all tell and no show. We're nearly half a season in, and the number one word I can use to describe this group is "boring." And no matter what boxes the writing ticks, if it's not compelling to me, I can't call it great writing. Especially in a show that's designed to appeal to the mass market.
I'm not asking for super-heroes, I'm not asking for a giant myth-arc. I'd just like some compelling characters. And it's possible that it's my problem, but given what many others are saying, I doubt I'm the only one.
It was a more subtle character episode than what people seem to recognize. Yes May's backstory was the center piece but the strongest elements of character development were Skye and Fitzsimmons. Over the past 5 or so episodes Skye has become more and more comfortable with stepping up and expressing herself. In this latest episode she straight up challenged Coulson and May and eventually forced her way. That's quite a step considering not long ago she was almost dropped from the team entirely. Fitzsimmons are now comfortable enough that they're planning pranks on other members of the team. The pranks are awful, which makes sense given that they're still very awkward individuals who really haven't been in close social situations with people other than each other. With May.. it wouldn't make sense for her to spell out her past the same way Ward did. She's been gone for far too long to just flip a switch and open up. Hence why we saw Skye's passion having only a slight effect. Skye's actions cracked the exterior and with time we'll see more of May's "old" personality shine through. This is development that we're seeing. It's not characters being torn down to the studs exposed in every episode but it's happening and it's a fairly realistic pace.
If you compare that to say, Arrow... Arrow's character development is extremely fast and dramatic. Arrow S2 spoilers:
Isabel Rochev (Summer Glau's character) comes in at the top of S2 as this ice queen cold ruthless business woman and proceeds to be that through 6 or so episodes...suddenly she has some vodka and in one conversation exposes herself emotionally to Oliver and after hearing him speak something like 3 sentences in Russian, sleeps with him.
That's an insanely quick personality switch. And she's not the only character to have such a stark and sudden change like that.
Now it's fine to enjoy Arrows style of progression more than SHIELD's. But what should be recognized is that SHIELD's isn't bad progression. It's just different. And what everyone seems to be struggling in putting their finger on with the "boring" comments is that the key thing that's different in terms of SHIELD's characters grabbing the audience when compared to other Whedon series (Buffy, Angel, Firefly) is that those series had a cast that clicked much faster. The characters weren't developed faster. The plots didn't move at a faster pace. The cast just had a faster developing chemistry. So even the earlier more mundane interactions grabbed the audience.
SHIELD is improving on that, but it's slow. So I can understand people being unwilling to wait that out. It's not bad though. It's just taking time. And if people don't want to wait, that's cool. It does the show a disservice though to simply demand a complete overhaul to a more shallow character arc and a plot pacing. What SHIELD is attempting isn't easy and could still very easily end up being completely worthless if they shit the bed when it comes time to turn up the heat and deliver a payoff. Personally though, I'd like to see SHIELD be able to attempt to finish what they've started (at least through this first season) before drastic changes are made. Maybe that will lose a lot of viewers in the meantime but I feel like it could be worth it if they pull it off in the end.
Perhaps I'm the one being unreasonable with the amount of patience I'm giving to the show to develop though.
While I'm not a huge fan of SHIELD so far... putting Arrow on some kind of pedastal doesn't seem fair. I watched most of the first season of that show and it was pretty terrible...maybe it's better now (wouldn't know) but it was nothing to write home about in the beginning.
While I'm not a huge fan of SHIELD so far... putting Arrow on some kind of pedastal doesn't seem fair. I watched most of the first season of that show and it was pretty terrible...maybe it's better now (wouldn't know) but it was nothing to write home about in the beginning.
For a while, I was only tuning in for Bear's music but even that's been uninspired lately. Can't blame the dude when there's so little to work with. Show is dead on arrival.
For a while, I was only tuning in for Bear's music but even that's been uninspired lately. Can't blame the dude when there's so little to work with. Show is dead on arrival.
I blame Bear for the show feeling bland too. Probably the worst score he's ever done. Who knows if he was told to make it super boring but ultimately he's the one that put the music out with his name on it, so it's his fault.
I went in to this show with pretty low expectations, just hoping it would be mildly entertaining and after nine episodes it still hasn't even met that modest standard.
I think the show is setting a solid base of what this unit of SHIELD is doing and what kinda menace they're facing. Each episode is showing a different side to the tech and rubbish the Aliens from the Avengers movie left behind, different things humans are doing with them. I think they have to do this, and IMO they doing it pretty well, not spectacular, but well.
They can push it like ARROW, cuz Oley not only an established hero, he's one of those one man ass kicking machines that, lets face it, is easier to write around...., then a team of "normal" humans, with personal issues n secrets, running spy-ish operations, and adventuring for lost dangerous tech. I understand why people call it a "superhero" show....but its really not.
I think the show is pretty good, im patient with it. Cool action, some fun concepts, not as down on it as people are in here.
I think the show is setting a solid base of what this unit of SHIELD is doing and what kinda menace they're facing. Each episode is showing a different side to the tech and rubbish the Aliens from the Avengers movie left behind, different things humans are doing with them. I think they have to do this, and IMO they doing it pretty well, not spectacular, but well.
They can push it like ARROW, cuz Oley not only an established hero, he's one of those one man ass kicking machines that, lets face it, is easier to write around...., then a team of "normal" humans, with personal issues n secrets, running spy-ish operations, and adventuring for lost dangerous tech. I understand why people call it a "superhero" show....but its really not.
I think the show is pretty good, im patient with it. Cool action, some fun concepts, not as down on it as people are in here.
I blame Bear for the show feeling bland too. Probably the worst score he's ever done. Who knows if he was told to make it super boring but ultimately he's the one that put the music out with his name on it, so it's his fault.
Well, he's just doing his job as a collaborator. It seems like for whatever reason, the people with the influence want every aspect of the show to be safe. It's why it's so dreadfully dull.
It's disappointing in the context of McCreary's other work but pretty standard for most other television music. I can't remember a note of score from Arrow, for instance.
Having D list villains/heroes that people seemed to oddly expect from the show will happen, it's just going to be a couple times a season type of thing.
Can't get much more D List than that Gravity guy ( and it was his origin we witnessed a couple episodes back).
People keep throwing around the term D list but I don't think they know how far down the rung D list actually is. We've already seen some D listers.
They don't even have to be legitimate 'D list'. I just want some more real villains and not poor humans stuck with powers they don't understand. There hasn't been enough of a real adversary.
What's the one thing holding the show together in the stretch? The tahiti mystery and the chicks parents. That's it. No big baddie getting away, no organization they're tracking down, nothing. That's the biggest issue with the show, feels too much like a sitcom in terms of plot narrative. I'd like AIM or something of the like to be introduced. Perhaps even within SHIELD.
They don't even have to be legitimate 'D list'. I just want some more real villains and not poor humans stuck with powers they don't understand. There hasn't been enough of a real adversary.
What's the one thing holding the show together in the stretch? The tahiti mystery and the chicks parents. That's it. No big baddie getting away, no organization they're tracking down, nothing. That's the biggest issue with the show, feels too much like a sitcom in terms of plot narrative. I'd like AIM or something of the like to be introduced. Perhaps even within SHIELD.
It seems like AIM will be the endgame. It's just that at this point, the Bus team has little to go on. Whether or not SHIELD as a whole is aware is unknown.
What's the one thing holding the show together in the stretch? The tahiti mystery and the chicks parents. That's it. No big baddie getting away, no organization they're tracking down, nothing. That's the biggest issue with the show, feels too much like a sitcom in terms of plot narrative. I'd like AIM or something of the like to be introduced. Perhaps even within SHIELD.
Uh, the tahiti mystery, skye's origins, and you know the organization behind centipede that has already been present more than once this season and will be present again in the dec 10 episode.
Uh, the tahiti mystery, skye's origins, and you know the organization behind centipede that has already been present more than once this season and will be present again in the dec 10 episode.
The centipede thing lasted a few episodes and was never heard from again. I'm glad it will be brought up again, but it didn't seem like a big plot underliner.
Still, i'm sticking with the show and hopefully it gets better. Is S2 confirmed?
The centipede thing lasted a few episodes and was never heard from again. I'm glad it will be brought up again, but it didn't seem like a big plot underliner.
Still, i'm sticking with the show and hopefully it gets better. Is S2 confirmed?
It feels like there's been more people in this thread outright calling it shit than there's been people who just said they find it uninteresting or disappointing.
There's also a few people who come in after every episode and shittalk it, which seems to me like they want the show to fail with GAF, as it obviously puts off people who might be interested.
It feels like there's been more people in this thread outright calling it shit than there's been people who just said they find it uninteresting or disappointing.
There's also a few people who come in after every episode and shittalk it, which seems to me like they want the show to fail with GAF, as it obviously puts off people who might be interested.
People hate the show because its been false advertising from the beginning. A bait and switch. Advertise all summer as a spin off of the avengers, have superpowers in the first episode and then ignore your roots until its most convenient. Oh recently, tease a tie into the Thor movie and have about 2 mins of actual tie in before going off on a tangent. It's pretty pathetic
People hate the show because its been false advertising from the beginning. A bait and switch. Advertise all summer as a spin off of the avengers, have superpowers in the first episode and then ignore your roots until its most convenient
I don't understand what this statement is about. The show's advertising slogan has been "not all heroes are super". What about this is false advertising then?
Exactly. This show is just not any good. I've watched around a dozen or so dramas this fall and SHIELD (along with The Walking Dead) has been the worst by quite a wide margin.
There are roughly 12-14 television shows either currently running or have just recently ended that are doing what SHIELD is trying to do, but better. That might even be a conservative estimate. 12 to 14 shows, of which SHIELD probably ranks on the lower end of the comparison.
Even if you subtract the fact this show is connected to the Marvel Universe, it's STILL falling short compared to multiple genre shows treading similar ground. And when it's up against that much competition, you can't afford to spin your wheels for nine hours. And the fact it's appeared to have gained traction, only to slip back into the same mediocre mud pit actually makes it even MORE frustrating.
The majority of the arguments for this show tend towards "It's not as bad as other shows" and "It could be worse," neither of which are all that tenable a position if you're trying to prove that the show is worth one hour a week.
Arrow was just as rough as AoS in its first half season. It wasn't until certain key elements were introduced (Malcolm, Felicity, and Slade joining as regulars and the Undertaking plot taking center stage) that the show started to click and become the incredible show it is today.
Of course, Arrow front-loaded the series with fan service to cover the cracks until the foundation could set up. AoS could use a similar technique to buy some time.
Arrow was just as rough as AoS in its first half season. It wasn't until certain key elements were introduced (Malcolm, Felicity, and Slade joining as regulars and the Undertaking plot taking center stage) that the show started to click and become the incredible show it is today.
Of course, Arrow front-loaded the series with fan service to cover the cracks until the foundation could set up. AoS could use a similar technique to buy some time.
The first episode of arrow is better than any episode of aos. And there was an over aching story from the get go, an issue AOS is suffering from 9 episodes into the series. We still have no idea what the show is about, none at all. It has no purpose or vision nothing. The characters just exist.
It's disappointing in the context of McCreary's other work but pretty standard for most other television music. I can't remember a note of score from Arrow, for instance.
They don't even have to be legitimate 'D list'. I just want some more real villains and not poor humans stuck with powers they don't understand. There hasn't been enough of a real adversary.
What's the one thing holding the show together in the stretch? The tahiti mystery and the chicks parents. That's it. No big baddie getting away, no organization they're tracking down, nothing. That's the biggest issue with the show, feels too much like a sitcom in terms of plot narrative. I'd like AIM or something of the like to be introduced. Perhaps even within SHIELD.
I think we're going to see something to that effect. Introducing Ms. Hand when they don't have the rights to Norman or any ties to Spider-Man seems like hint enough at a future foundation. She's a villain in her own right who worked for Osborn when he ran SHIELD.
'Trust the system'... but she had not intention of Coulsons team making it out alive, it went beyond parameters of a mission, and came across like a deliberate attempt to pick them off. It's even brought up in the post at the hub (from whats his name with the glasses) that Coulsons team having no extract made no sense. She deflected it quickly, but it was clearly an excuse and glasses guy clearly was suspicious.
To say nothing of how the show will be tied to The Winter Soldier.
Just got down 'Repairs' and it was quite a good episode. It did a great job of building tension (something the show often does poorly) and actually gave us a decent fight with some pretty good character exposition. I can see why more people tuned in and stayed tuned in. It certainly hit on the character part that the show has lacked for so long, now they just need to get that side of things more consistently integrated with the action episodes as well. This is the first episode where the cast well and truly gels and (almost) everyone works well as individuals on top of it.
Footnote
Best dramatic acting in the series from crying lady, she really helped glue the episode together, and Agent Ward is actually getting interesting. The sexing subplot has added to the dynamic of the show especially when Sky kind of sort of likes Ward and thinks he might kind of sort of be a possibility.
Funny how this episode was almost as much of a THOR tie in as last weeks. If not more, simply because everything in lasts weeks could have happened without the events from 'The Dark World' and that's not at all the case for 'Repairs'.
Episode was so boring.
I guess the hell world might be tied into some future episodes (tahiti) and some movies though, so perhaps this is the start of a more interested mythology?
Episode was so boring. I guess the hell world might be tied into some future episodes (tahiti) and some movies though, so perhaps this is the start of a more interested mythology?
Very good point! I was perplexed why the showrunners wrote a ghost story but now that you mention it maybe it's the beginning of a deeper mythology which concerns half dead people like Coulson.
Compared to 'The Tomorrow People' this show is amazing....I'm enjoying this show its not the best thing ever but it isn't 'beauty and the beast' or 'tomorrow people' those shows are truly bad.
Arrow was just as rough as AoS in its first half season. It wasn't until certain key elements were introduced (Malcolm, Felicity, and Slade joining as regulars and the Undertaking plot taking center stage) that the show started to click and become the incredible show it is today.
Of course, Arrow front-loaded the series with fan service to cover the cracks until the foundation could set up. AoS could use a similar technique to buy some time.
Not at all. There were rough patches for sure and the supporting characters were weak early on, but from the start Arrow had good serialization going on, good action and as I said, it actually had its own look, which is a major problem with SHIELD, it doesn't really look like anything, just like they turned on the cameras without much thought.
People hate the show because its been false advertising from the beginning. A bait and switch. Advertise all summer as a spin off of the avengers, have superpowers in the first episode and then ignore your roots until its most convenient. Oh recently, tease a tie into the Thor movie and have about 2 mins of actual tie in before going off on a tangent. It's pretty pathetic
