Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. |OT| Tahiti is a Magical Place (to...Hey guys, I found it!)
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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Fitz is Forge.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
May is the Mandarin
That's racist.
Jag
Member
Hate-fu has now entered my families lexicon, as in, "You better get ready for school before mom uses her Hate-Fu on you!"
Cornballer
Member
But Forge is a mutant.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I really hope we get more than a small cameo from Fury. Hopefully he plays a decent sized role in at least one act of the finale. Would love to see him and Coulson take down Garrett together.
Winner. Update the title mods.
Cornballer
Member
I'm kind of amazed that neither of this reviews even stopped for a second to think that Ward didn't pull the trigger on the sniper rifle.
Nailed it here though.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
I'm late to the discussion, but I think it was implied that Garrett stayed behind at the camp with the .50 Cal and watched to see if Garrett would shoot the dog.
This was a loyalty and detachment test.
This is why Garrett sends Deathlok to shadow Garrett and Skye and Garrett keeps referencing Garrett's weakness (attachment).
This is also why he ejected FitzSimmons at a low altitude instead of finding a way to kill them for sure. Just like the dog he had run off into the woods, he gave FitzSimmons a fighting chance to survive on their own. Giving them a chance to find their own way was all he could do.
and Skye is totally going to be Jessica Drew and Ward better not die.
Future antagonist with an unhealthy infatuation with keeping an eye on and getting close to Skye so he may befriend her as "Taskmaster" training her and helping her access her special powers deep inside with the help of Reyna is the future I want for him.
Oh and even though I know Fitz' walkie talkie GPS quarter is going to lead to their rescue, technically he used the EMP hand buzzer that was practically touching it at the time, so it should have been fried along with any other piece of electronics within 10 feet.
I so hope that when Trip eventually is the one to look through glass into the box, he catches FitzSimmons about to have a moment, to which SImmons is super embarrassed "i thought we were about to bloody die!!"and Fitz gives me "AH COME ON!!!! YOU"VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!" look to Trip.
And for those wondering why Ward and Reyna didn't run when Garrett was about to go Extremis and explode.... remember the first episode in that lab? In those 4 seconds, where could you have run to in an oxygen rich pressurized cabin of an airplane that would escape an explosion that surely would have blown out the entire middle section of that plane, sending whats remaining in a fiery ball of steel straight into the ocean. There was nowhere to run to.
This was a loyalty and detachment test.
This is why Garrett sends Deathlok to shadow Garrett and Skye and Garrett keeps referencing Garrett's weakness (attachment).
This is also why he ejected FitzSimmons at a low altitude instead of finding a way to kill them for sure. Just like the dog he had run off into the woods, he gave FitzSimmons a fighting chance to survive on their own. Giving them a chance to find their own way was all he could do.
and Skye is totally going to be Jessica Drew and Ward better not die.
Future antagonist with an unhealthy infatuation with keeping an eye on and getting close to Skye so he may befriend her as "Taskmaster" training her and helping her access her special powers deep inside with the help of Reyna is the future I want for him.
Oh and even though I know Fitz' walkie talkie GPS quarter is going to lead to their rescue, technically he used the EMP hand buzzer that was practically touching it at the time, so it should have been fried along with any other piece of electronics within 10 feet.
I so hope that when Trip eventually is the one to look through glass into the box, he catches FitzSimmons about to have a moment, to which SImmons is super embarrassed "i thought we were about to bloody die!!"and Fitz gives me "AH COME ON!!!! YOU"VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!" look to Trip.
And for those wondering why Ward and Reyna didn't run when Garrett was about to go Extremis and explode.... remember the first episode in that lab? In those 4 seconds, where could you have run to in an oxygen rich pressurized cabin of an airplane that would escape an explosion that surely would have blown out the entire middle section of that plane, sending whats remaining in a fiery ball of steel straight into the ocean. There was nowhere to run to.
RellyRell28
Banned
They need to be butt ass naked when they get rescued as well
RellyRell28
Banned
I mean the whole team has to be present when they're rescued and throw in Nick Fury being present as well for maximum effect
Is any of the recent New Warriors good? I haven't read anything aside from the stuff around Civil War.
So confused reading this thread. Feel like I watched a different show than everyone else. I'll re-watch the episode, but here's what I saw:
- Ward initially let the dog go, but then grabbed the rifle and put the dog down. He succumbed to weakness momentarily, but then overcame it. This is meant to parallel with his jettisoning of FitzSimmons- the show first makes you think he'll let them go, then he dumps them overboard.
- Ward tried to kill FitzSimmons (though obviously they will survive). If they hadn't hopped in that pod, I absolutely believe he would've killed them with his hands. I think we're supposed to interpret that he had no sure way of accessing the pod from the outside. So he pragmatically jettisons it, which from his perspective had to have a >99% chance of killing them.
- Ward initially let the dog go, but then grabbed the rifle and put the dog down. He succumbed to weakness momentarily, but then overcame it. This is meant to parallel with his jettisoning of FitzSimmons- the show first makes you think he'll let them go, then he dumps them overboard.
- Ward tried to kill FitzSimmons (though obviously they will survive). If they hadn't hopped in that pod, I absolutely believe he would've killed them with his hands. I think we're supposed to interpret that he had no sure way of accessing the pod from the outside. So he pragmatically jettisons it, which from his perspective had to have a >99% chance of killing them.
Didn't he? At first he didn't, but then we see him following it with the scope with the crosshair on the dog, I assumed that meant that they were kind of giving us this false "aww, look, he's really all that bad" image of Ward at first with not shooting it with the pistol, then cutting to him hesitating with FitzSimmons and then "lol, nope, he's a dick" -> shoots dog -> cut to him throwing them out.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I think Ward killed the dog. A double twist is unlikely.
Showing Ward unable to kill the dog and Fitzsimmons is the first twist. He's evil, but gets attached. Redemption time?
But no, he actually is evil, by sniping the dog and jettisoning them into the ocean.
Fitz is naive. He hasn't seen evil Ward, and wasn't directly betrayed.
Showing Ward unable to kill the dog and Fitzsimmons is the first twist. He's evil, but gets attached. Redemption time?
But no, he actually is evil, by sniping the dog and jettisoning them into the ocean.
Fitz is naive. He hasn't seen evil Ward, and wasn't directly betrayed.
Affeinvasion
Member
Affeinvasion
Member
Yeah Garrett wouldn't be holding the "weakness" card over Ward for over 10 years if Ward had actually gone back and killed the dog with the rifle. Plus how would Garrett know if he killed the dog at all if he hadn't been watching the whole time anyway (through the rifle)? People thinking that Ward killed the dog are missing some pretty basic aspects of visual story-telling.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Yeah guys the whole conceit there is that they make us think "oh he didn't shoot the dog, he won't kill them," then he starts doing stuff and you're like "wait what's he doing" then they show OH WAIT he went back and actually DID shoot the dog, playing with the expectation set up moments before. He follows through and "finishes off" FitzSimmons. It was a pretty clear scene, honestly, I am not sure why anyone is interpreting it another way. What possible purpose would that "dog in the sniper scope" scene have served? They inserted it at the exact point when it turns out Ward actually is choosing to "kill" FitzSimmons, it serves no other purpose when inserted exactly then. Garret wouldn't have shot the dog, that makes no sense whatsoever. Ward manned up and went back to overcome his weakness.
Affeinvasion
Member
Based on both their characterizations the entire season, that is the only thing that makes sense. Ward clearly didn't man up and overcome his weakness considering that Garrett knows he didn't, and uses it to lord over Ward ever since. Usually it works.
Again if Ward had actually killed the dog either via pistol or rifle, how would Garrett know? Why would he continually have him shadowed by Dethlok? Why would Garrett continually berate him for this "weakness" if he overcame it? He only does this because he doesn't trust him completely because he failed to kill the dog.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I feel like if Garrett shot the dog, Ward wouldn't even know about it. Garrett "cleaning up Ward's mess" reads like there was something super important about THE DOG and that dog HAD TO DIE it knew our secrets, gotta take out that dog even if Ward doesn't do it.
There's no reason to sniper shoot the dog if Ward's not the one doing it, or at LEAST watching it happen.
So to be clear, under your version: Garrett tells Ward he's about to become a double secret agent, a mole within SHIELD. His final test is to kill his beloved companion who helped sustain him in the wilderness. Ward fails that test, Garrett knows this, and Garrett sends him off to SHIELD anyway. No big deal.
This is more plausible to you?
This is more plausible to you?
It's an abusive/exploitative relationship. Ward doesn't understand this, but Garrett sure does.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Affeinvasion
Member
Garrett would undoubtedly reveal that he knew, and had killed the dog at some point when it would be important to twist into Ward. That's what Garrett does. He's not shy about boasting or using psychological warfare (he uses Ward's feelings for Skye against him all the time).
Garrett wants leverage over Ward and it's leverage that he clearly has been using for over 10 years.
Garrett wouldn't trust somebody on good intentions (like shooting a dog) to not screw up being a double agent for him. He would want contingencies. Regardless of whether or not Ward shot the dog, Garrett wouldn't trust Ward completely.
Because Ward let the dog go once before changing his mind and actually shooting it. That is already too soft & weak for Garrett.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
"Speak up son, I'm not a mind reader."
I remember there was some debate on Hand's death, but that turned out to be pretty clearcut. I don't think the writers would be so ambiguous.
If Garrett shot the dog, they'll show it, and then he'll ask about Fitzsimmons. As attachment is Ward's weakness, Garrett will be skeptical and confirm the kill himself. But he doesn't.
I remember there was some debate on Hand's death, but that turned out to be pretty clearcut. I don't think the writers would be so ambiguous.
If Garrett shot the dog, they'll show it, and then he'll ask about Fitzsimmons. As attachment is Ward's weakness, Garrett will be skeptical and confirm the kill himself. But he doesn't.
He then make sweet love to Simmons meanwhile Fitz cry
Most people in here are still in denial of Ward.
Jag
Member
The dog is Cosmo, Comrade.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Garrett shooting the dog makes sense if you see it as a warning to Ward: If he shows weakness by becoming attached then Garrett will finish the job for him.
Tahiti is a magical place to spend pages discussing the fate of one dog.
Overall, I'm very happy with how they turned the season around. Now they just need to stick the landing with the finale, get renewed and everything will be right with the world. Oh, and they better give something concrete about Skye's true nature. They don't have to answer all the fine details but I think we need to either get more information on where she came from or what she can do.
I get it though as it reflects on Ward's character.
Overall, I'm very happy with how they turned the season around. Now they just need to stick the landing with the finale, get renewed and everything will be right with the world. Oh, and they better give something concrete about Skye's true nature. They don't have to answer all the fine details but I think we need to either get more information on where she came from or what she can do.
Jest Chillin
Member
It's the biggest lesson of all that Garrett is trying to impart to Ward. They forshadow it multiple times. First, when Garrett and Ward are discussing the dog and Garrett says "You know he's not human right?" And Ward explains he's better because he's loyal. Garrett tells him what does that loyalty get the dog. Dropped off at the pound or left in field. This echo's Garrett's feelings about SHIELD. He was dying in the field and asking for extraction and SHIELD wouldn't do it. So he shoved his own guts back into his body, ducktaped himself up and got himself out of there (the second forshadowing). Self Reliance. Don't trust ANYONE. These are the tenants by which Garrett lives.
He knew Ward wouldn't kill the dog, so he shoots the dog. This is to impart that the dogs loyalty gets him killed and Ward's trust in Garrett is misplaced as well. It's a lesson that Ward still follows as you can see in his actions. He doesn't work for Garrett because he trusts him, he feels he owes him a debt.
It's not a test. It's a lesson. Don't trust anyone because trust will get you killed. Just as it had nearly killed Garrett in the field. Just as it killed the dog. This is why Garrett sides with Hydra once he saw "the winds changing" and then after the uprising, he works alone outside of Hydra to save his own life. He uses Ward, he uses Hydra, he uses Flower Dress, etc.. etc.. all to get what he needs and he feels no duty towards any of them.
Ward: "Why should I trust you?"
Garrett: "You shouldn't trust anyone. Least of all me!"
Garrett wouldn't have known about that had he not been watching. If Garrett doesn't have the rifle to watch what Ward does, then how does he see it? Garrett killed the dog and he did it before the dog left Ward's sight.
I'm just not sure if there's much reason for Garrett to be the shooter. We see Ward shooting the rifle earlier, using it very professionally, so I'd think it's to be assumed that Ward is behind the scope in the dog shooting scene as well. If it wasn't, I'd think it would be better storytelling to actually show Garrett shoot the dog to establish that he didn't quite trust Ward and had to take matters into his own hands instead of implying Ward shot it.
No, the way that part was cut implies it was Ward. He hesitated for a while and let the dog start running away, then reconsidered, fetched his rifle and shot the dog from afar. Garrett mentions Ward's incredible hand-eye coordination earlier in the episode, so in a superhero world a person like that could probably "easily" shoot a moving target as big as a dog from quite far away.
As I pointed out, letting the dog go once would already be seen as soft & weak to Garrett, so that could easily be the reason why he's going on and on about Ward's weakness (+ Ward's interactions with Skye). Ward is weak enough to have a big enough moment of hesitation over a dog to let it run away, he might be so weak he'll let similar stuff happen with humans and Garrett probably wants to constantly remind Ward about it to perhaps shame him & have better control of him. If Ward is always ashamed of that moment of weakness in the eyes of his mentor, then Garrett probably thinks Ward isn't going to hesitate as easily when he has to do something similar (like he doesn't with FitzSimmons).
No, the way that part was cut implies it was Ward. He hesitated for a while and let the dog start running away, then reconsidered, fetched his rifle and shot the dog from afar. Garrett mentions Ward's incredible hand-eye coordination earlier in the episode, so in a superhero world a person like that could probably "easily" shoot a moving target as big as a dog from quite far away.
As I pointed out, letting the dog go once would already be seen as soft & weak to Garrett, so that could easily be the reason why he's going on and on about Ward's weakness (+ Ward's interactions with Skye). Ward is weak enough to have a big enough moment of hesitation over a dog to let it run away, he might be so weak he'll let similar stuff happen with humans and Garrett probably wants to constantly remind Ward about it to perhaps shame him & have better control of him. If Ward is always ashamed of that moment of weakness in the eyes of his mentor, then Garrett probably thinks Ward isn't going to hesitate as easily when he has to do something similar (like he doesn't with FitzSimmons).
He first hears a hand gun being shot (i doubt he's so far he can't hear a gunshot), but Ward doesn't return to him immediately. Then he hears a rifle. 1 + 1. Garrett isn't dumb, he probably noticed Ward is attached to the dog and just put those one and one together.
Exploratory
Banned
Garrett definitely killed the dog. I loved this episode and I'm glad AoS has righted the ship.
Alcoremortis
Member
He might have just heard two gunshots a sizable time from each other and deduce that Ward gave the dog a running head start, which would be weak enough for contempt while still technically passing the test.
TacticalFox88
Banned
I feel Ward is gonna sacrifice himself for the team...
Hope not, cause I want him to stay with the show,
but there's no going back with the team after what he's done.
I'm both upset and glad he was evil.
Glad because he became interesting
Upset because Skyeward gave me such good feels.
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