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Aldnoah Zero Season 2 |OT| Inaho or Out, It's All The Slaine

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L

LordCanti

Member
Frog-fu said:
I think we can rule out any ambition on Slaine's part to rule over people. Everything he does is for Asseylum's sake. It would be wholly uncharacteristic for him to have any such desire to become the new emperor or take over either the Vers Empire or Earth. He doesn't seem to particularly enjoy violence either, so we can assume he doesn't want the war to go any longer than it needs to, i.e. if there is a way to end it, to put a stop it all, then he'll do it.
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If he wants the war to end as soon as possible, why is Lemrina not making speeches demanding that the fighting cease?

I know this is all leading to an asspull where the true nature of Aldnoah is revealed to us and the power to destroy a moon is suddenly either Slaine or Inaho's, but Slaine doesn't know that.

kewlmyc said:
I won't say it's Valvrave levels of ridiculously stupid bullshit yet, but it's Code Geass R2 levels of stupid. The protagonist-wars in these threads are fun (#teamSlaine vs #teamInaho), something R2 didn't have since no one liked Suzaku.
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I 100% watch for the protagonist wars in this thread and elsewhere.
 
D

darkblade77

Member
LordCanti said:
If he wants the war to end as soon as possible, why is Lemrina not making speeches demanding that the fighting cease?
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Because ending the fighting doesn't address the problem Vers is having, which is why they're going to war to begin with--dwindling resources. It's not likely some peace agreement would end in Vers taking resources en-mass from Earth without there being another war. (except it would because in war anime, declaring peace magically solves all problems of state as the season ends)

That's why Slaine's perspective changed/expanded/whatever upon having that dinner chat with Saazbaum last season. Whatever the political structure of Vers ends up being, Vers itself has no future unless it can tap Earth. Winning the war is a priority over enacting reform.

It's probably meaningful to note that at least up until this season, not very many people even on Vers know this is why they're actually invading Earth--it's public knowledge that Vers covets Earth's natural resources, but not that the situation is bad enough that not getting said resources could be a fatal blow to the empire itself. The King and maybe some counts besides Saazbaum(and now Slaine) know this. Asseylum clearly doesn't know, her sister probably doesn't know, and I doubt anyone on Earth knows (except Inaho, who has probably both deduced it at least as of last episode, and equally doesn't give a damn).
 
L

LordCanti

Member
darkblade77 said:
Because ending the fighting doesn't address the problem Vers is having, which is why they're going to war to begin with--dwindling resources. It's not likely some peace agreement would end in Vers taking resources en-mass from Earth without there being another war. (except it would because in war anime, declaring peace magically solves all problems of state as the season ends)

That's why Slaine's perspective changed/expanded/whatever upon having that dinner chat with Saazbaum last season. Whatever the political structure of Vers ends up being, Vers itself has no future unless it can tap Earth. Winning the war is a priority over enacting reform.

It's probably meaningful to note that at least up until this season, not very many people even on Vers know this is why they're actually invading Earth--it's public knowledge that Vers covets Earth's natural resources, but not that the situation is bad enough that not getting said resources could be a fatal blow to the empire itself. The King and maybe some counts besides Saazbaum(and now Slaine) know this. Asseylum clearly doesn't know, her sister probably doesn't know, and I doubt anyone on Earth knows (except Inaho, who has probably both deduced it at least as of last episode, and equally doesn't give a damn).
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My question was mostly rhetorical. The point is that his continued use of Lemrina to further the war is costing lives and that his endgame is vague. Like you said, Earth is unlikely to roll over and let them have the resources they need. He could have tried diplomacy through Lemrina but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I don't see a solution that gets him out of this without massive casualties, and for what? So he can maybe reform Mars at a large human cost?

May Godnaho get the true space magic first and fire a massive black hole beam that destroys Mars. Umbasa.
 
D

darkblade77

Member
LordCanti said:
My question was mostly rhetorical. The point is that his continued use of Lemrina to further the war is costing lives and that his endgame is vague. Like you said, Earth is unlikely to roll over and let them have the resources they need. He could have tried diplomacy through Lemrina but that doesn't seem to be in the cards. I don't see a solution that gets him out of this without massive casualties, and for what? So he can maybe reform Mars at a large human cost?

May Godnaho get the true space magic first and fire a massive black hole beam that destroys Mars. Umbasa.
Click to expand...

The problem with diplomacy is that Vers is actually bartering from a position of weakness unless they point a sword at Earth's throat(which is more or less what is happening now anyway), and that (effectively) nobody knows about that position, which would have to come out one way or another during diplomacy, and it's pretty much a stinker. It's like admitting that Earth was actually winning the war just by holding out(and it is, hilariously). Which leaves Vers in a position that they need to unilaterally take what they need to continue to exist, hence the war.

I don't know what Slaine's master plan is, but I just assume the priority is to ensure that Asseylum has a Vers to return to when she wakes up. 'Stopping the fighting' essentially signs Vers' death warrant at this point, while it does save Earth.

And I'm half-expecting a black hole cannon to be a thing now, thanks. :(
 
L

LordCanti

Member
darkblade77 said:
I don't know what Slaine's master plan is, but I just assume the priority is to ensure that Asseylum has a Vers to return to when she wakes up. 'Stopping the fighting' essentially signs Vers' death warrant at this point, while it does save Earth.

And I'm half-expecting a black hole cannon to be a thing now, thanks. :(
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That it's a totally plausible thing that could happen says a lot.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
LordCanti said:
If he wants the war to end as soon as possible, why is Lemrina not making speeches demanding that the fighting cease?

I know this is all leading to an asspull where the true nature of Aldnoah is revealed to us and the power to destroy a moon is suddenly either Slaine or Inaho's, but Slaine doesn't know that.
Click to expand...

If it were that simple, he would have probably done it and the show wouldn't be half as interesting.
 
D

duckroll

Member
I don't think Slaine knows what he really wants at the end. He probably has an idea of what he feels is right and wrong, but I don't think he has some grand game plan. That seems more like something Inaho would spend time doing, because he's an anti-social psycho schemer. Our dear Lord Slaine is a teenager who has been put in difficult situations. He deals with what life throws at him, and takes chances when he sees them. He understands the lower classes because he's one of them, he empathizes with the Martians who don't enjoy the wealth of the empire, he is resentful of Earth as a place because he the people as having everything the Martians don't, but wasting it away.

He probably also sees Earth as equally bad compared to the Martian royals because he thinks they also use and dump people as they see fit - like what he thinks happened with the princess. First and foremost in his mind is the safety and protection of the princess. Everything else he does is to improve his own position so he can better protect the princess, and if possible, make a better world. At least that's what he probably hopes for, even if he doesn't really know how he can accomplish that.
 
S

striferser

Huge Nickleback Fan
Episode 17
For once, i sympathize with Slaine. Look at that fucking noble trying to fight a dude who singlehandedly destroy Earth base. Slaine be all like "is this fucker serious?"

What Inaho did will probably bite him in the ass later, and Inko will be the one that takes the bullet for Inaho.
 
S

Seductivpancakes

Member
kewlmyc said:
He really does get the shit end of the stick, which is why I can forgive most of the stupid shit he does. Only the Princess, Harklight, Captain Sauce, and now loli maid treated him with any respect for his entire life.
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he's going to end up teaming up with Inaho again at the end. at least that's my prediction.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
You know, if Inaho hadn't jumped the gun and team-killed Slaine at that island he would have been folded into Earth's forces like the red-head and the princess. Then he wouldn't have saved the Count and no one would have been shot.
 
P

Pooya

Member
ending leaked:

1423743175-1.jpg
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D

duckroll

Member
Episode 18

Wow, these Martians are turning out to be real jobbers. Getting rekt'd by Inaho and Slaine left, right, and center. I can't believe that guy didn't even have any sort of plan. He had a bunch of laser funnels and he thought he could beat Slaine? Jeez! Lololol. The end of the episode and the post-credits scene seem to suggest that things will all be going south for the Martian plans soon. I wonder how many episodes of cringe-worthy dramaz we'll get before it kicks into the endgame for the series...
 
B

Baalzebup

Member
duckroll said:
Episode 18

Wow, these Martians are turning out to be real jobbers. Getting rekt'd by Inaho and Slaine left, right, and center. I can't believe that guy didn't even have any sort of plan. He had a bunch of laser funnels and he thought he could beat Slaine.
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Well, this really was just another continuation of what we've seen before and what was safe to assume to happen here as well. The Martians are all so entranced with the sheer power of their Aldnoah powered society, status and personal mechs that they simply cannot plan ahead properly.

They are mostly unable to adapt in any major way and seem to assume the same holds true to their enemies. Too powerful to consider themselves limited, even though that very power is the thing that also limits them. Its almost poetic, really.

It was good to see that Lemrina isn't quite out and out ruthless as she could be. One-note, backstabby, envious siblings are a boring plot element. Her having actual warm feelings for Asseylum is a positive note on her character.

I hope Yuki doesn't insist on being this suicidal with her "save the little brother" agenda. She really should remember which one of them is the only functional military asset of the Feds. Though I guess the Deucalion itself is kinda useful too. It has landed two killing shots for Inascope.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Orbital Knights should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

Did any of these fuckers go through basic military training? Like how the fuck do you not understand the concept of a bottleneck ambush?
 
P

Pooya

Member
18

fights were pretty good, first one in particular, good to see some team work again after ep3...

Inaho's eye so OP. damn

Martian knights admit they're garbage, no shit.

Slaine using more lolworthy symbolism, these scenes are so bad.

ka7MD.png


wonder what will happen with the wedding, actually can be pretty interesting :b
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Jarmel said:
Orbital Knights should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

Did any of these fuckers go through basic military training? Like how the fuck do you not understand the concept of a bottleneck ambush?
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I see the knights as pre-Napoleonic nobleman warriors, which is more or less what they are. They led their troops into combat firsthand, relying on the quality of their arms and armor to overwhelm the opposition. Little thought was given to actual tactics...

And then came Napoleon (Inaho), who laid the foundation for modern military theory. So now they're getting destroyed because here's suddenly a strategic geius who approaches conflict like a problem to be solved instead of a vain display of courage and patriotism.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Jarmel said:
Orbital Knights should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

Did any of these fuckers go through basic military training? Like how the fuck do you not understand the concept of a bottleneck ambush?
Click to expand...

Actually, in all seriousness, probably not? There has been a total ceasefire since Heaven's Fall, and that was what... 15 years ago? The Orbital Knights are all families stranded around the Moon since the gateway was destroyed. Most of the current knights look like they're in their teens or early 20s at most. It's an entire generation disconnected from the homeland, stuck with nothing but overpowered weapon toys, and zero combat training.

The show clearly isn't smart enough to make that an actual compelling plot point for the narrative, but it's interesting to think about the psychological impact growing up in such an environment and what it means for actual competence.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
Haly said:
I see the knights as pre-Napoleonic nobleman warriors, which is more or less what they are. They led their troops into combat firsthand, relying on the quality of their arms and armor to overwhelm the opposition. Little thought was given to actual tactics...

And then came Napoleon (Inaho), who laid the foundation for modern military theory. So now they're getting destroyed because here's suddenly a strategic geius who approaches conflict like a problem to be solved instead of a vain display of courage and patriotism.
Click to expand...

They should still be familiar with basic Earth tactics. I mean what Slaine did was like Military Fundamentals 101.
 
D

Dynedom

Member
Haly said:
I see the knights as pre-Napoleonic nobleman warriors, which is more or less what they are. They led their troops into combat firsthand, relying on the quality of their arms and armor to overwhelm the opposition. Little thought was given to actual tactics...

And then came Napoleon (Inaho), who laid the foundation for modern military theory. So now they're getting destroyed because here's suddenly a strategic geius who approaches conflict like a problem to be solved instead of a vain display of courage and patriotism.
Click to expand...

Slaine's speech summed up the Orbital Knight's problem. Even the writers acknowledge that these guys are jobbers.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Dynedom said:
Slaine's speech summed up the Orbital Knight's problem. Even the writers acknowledge that these guys are jobbers.
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But the larger problem with the writing is that literally -everyone- is a jobber other than the two lead characters. Which is really stupid. Without Inaho, even with maximum jobbing, the Martians would wipe the Earth out easily. No matter how experienced the soldiers, how senior their rank, this one 15 year old is going to rekt everyone's shit. There is zero competence outside of Inaho, there isn't even a token senior officer who shows him the way. He's literally better and smarter than everyone.
 
P

phaze

Member
Aldnoah.Zero 18

Shocking development, Inaho didn't wreck a Vers Kataphrakt solely on his own. Bah he only had support role in the fight.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
duckroll said:
Actually, in all seriousness, probably not? There has been a total ceasefire since Heaven's Fall, and that was what... 15 years ago? The Orbital Knights are all families stranded around the Moon since the gateway was destroyed. Most of the current knights look like they're in their teens or early 20s at most. It's an entire generation disconnected from the homeland, stuck with nothing but overpowered weapon toys, and zero combat training.

The show clearly isn't smart enough to make that an actual compelling plot point for the narrative, but it's interesting to think about the psychological impact growing up in such an environment and what it means for actual competence.
Click to expand...

I can understand some level of incompetence but it seems like they would still be training just for the possibility of another Count trying to take you out. Feudal states had tons of infighting.
 
D

Dynedom

Member
duckroll said:
But the larger problem with the writing is that literally -everyone- is a jobber other than the two lead characters. Which is really stupid. Without Inaho, even with maximum jobbing, the Martians would wipe the Earth out easily. No matter how experienced the soldiers, how senior their rank, this one 15 year old is going to rekt everyone's shit. There is zero competence outside of Inaho, there isn't even a token senior officer who shows him the way. He's literally better and smarter than everyone.
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Oh I don't disagree.

I mean, it wouldn't be the first anime to thrust superior military intelligence onto children rather than adults but at least something like Gundam had competent strategists that had passed puberty.

This is obviously the Slaine vs Inaho show.

Jarmel said:
I can understand some level of incompetence but it seems like they would still be training just for the possibility of another Count trying to take you out. Feudal states had tons of infighting.
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Is Vers a feudal state?
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
One of the counts challenged Slaine to a duel, lol.

They had about as much training as Hamilton did.
 
D

Dynedom

Member
Jarmel said:
Yes.
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I never truly viewed it as such but given Saazbaum's speeches in season one, you're right.

I think it still boils down to hubris and a certain unknown that these guys fail to acknowledge (whether it be Slaine or Inaho).

Side Note About Characters

Does anyone else notice the swapping of emotional spectrum that Inaho and Slaine are going through? Inaho is a robot that is slowly starting to open up and possibly show, you know, emotion. Slaine on the other hand was a guy who seemed to act on emotional impulse and is now becoming ice cold and calculating. Both center around the princess as well. Jury is still out on if they will follow through with this though.
 
B

Baalzebup

Member
phaze said:
Aldnoah.Zero 18

Shocking development, Inaho didn't wreck a Vers Kataphrakt solely on his own. Bah he only had support role in the fight.
Click to expand...

Eh, the previous Kataphrakt kill was the same. Inaho was out and about to scope the gravity-mech, but I at least assume that the shots were fired by the Deucalion. The shells were depicted on both shots and the captain gives the firing order for the second shot. And hell, the jobbers down on the ground acted out the exact same role in the end. Luring and distraction.

Edit: Actually, holy shit at their attention to detail. I found the exact frame of it. Ihano's mech unit is actually clinging to one barrel of one of Deucalions turrents and the legs of his unit are in the standard color instead of his chosen orange.You'll remember them being swept off by Saazbaum right at the end of their last encounter.
 
F

Frog-fu

Banned
Episode 18

Slaine putting in work by progressing the actual plot, as per usual. Terran side of the story returned to the status quo of being boring by comparison.
 
P

phaze

Member
Baalzebup said:
Eh, the previous Kataphrakt kill was the same. Inaho was out and about to scope the gravity-mech, but I at least assume that the shots were fired by the Deucalion. The shells were depicted on both shots and the captain gives the firing order for the second shot. And hell, the jobbers down on the ground acted out the exact same role in the end. Luring and distraction.
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Rewatched and you're right, I was actually convinced he shot with his rifle from there.
 
K

kewlmyc

Member
ThatChairMan said:
I don't know which was worse, Slaine's "miracles are impossible" blue roses or Inaho's "I can see everything except what I want to see" eye.
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Maybe it's too deep for me, but was Slaine trying to say that it was impossible for Princess Fishtank to ever wake up again, that's why he went forward with his plan at the end of the episode?
 
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