The Faceless Master
Member
well, 20 minutes in, i'm already amazed... i hope the next 100 minutes are this good...
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Alias - Season 4 - DOOMED!
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
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The Faceless Master
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what the hell kinda name is that?
APO?
)
The Faceless Master
Member
+20 pts for continuity
+50 pts for rambaldi
+50 pts for rambaldi
-1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,008 for
[/temporary loss of sanity]
APPARENTLY KILLING OFF IRINA DEREVKO....NOOOOOOOOOOO...LENA OLIN KICKS ASS!!! DAMN IT!!! PLEASE BE WOOL OVER OUR EYES...IF SHE WANTED TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH HER FAMILY, COULDN'T THEY JUST MAKE A BLUE SCREEN ROOM IN HER BACK YARD AND FILM HER SCENES FROM THERE! IT'D BE A FAR BETTER USE FOR CG THAN MOST OF THE CRAP OUT THERE!
The Faceless Master
Member
lol this is like MVC2... calling in assists!
The Faceless Master
Member
hahahahaOmniGamer said:
THAT BITCH DESERVED TO DIE AND I HOPE SHE BURNS IN HELL
The Faceless Master
Member
i called it!
The Faceless Master
Member
Weiss for the save!
Luscious LeftFoot
Member
Ugh... she's crying AGAIN.
TheQueen'sOwn
insert blank space here
That was pretty boring =/...
You'd think they could do something a little more exciting with 2 hours... ah well..
You'd think they could do something a little more exciting with 2 hours... ah well..
TheQueen'sOwn said:
If you show up at Acadia, I will punch you in the genitals...nicely.
I was here, I tells ya, but I was too busy watching to get caught up in posting on GAF. Sorry, folks.
Essentially, they had me worried...and they still have me batshit confused. I have my concerns about the direction the show is going in, storyline-wise, and there is one major (To me) continuity note they missed from last season. Mainly,
Lauren SHOT MARSHALL in the Season Finale and all through that episode they didn't even mention it, and it was never brought up here either.
It was clear that the first forty minutes were meant simply to bring those people like MrBob into the world of Alias. There was no direct mention of any sort of recurring plotlines. Rambaldi was brought up all of once, and even that mention was simply one of closure. Mind you, I don't think it will be closed forever, but as it stands it's gone. I'm kind of sad about this. I liked the storylline. It got too convulted with all of this crazy ass stuff from the third season, but the core mythology was brilliant stuff.
The first forty minutes entertained me, but scared me at the same time. Because, essentially, the show that blew our minds with "Phase One" essentially is gone. What has returned is the dynamic of the show that existed before that fateful episode. The dynamic of Syd and Dixon in the field, the dynamic of Sloane and pretty well everyone involved, and the dynamic of pretty well the entire cast. I feel infinitely bad for Weiss, though. The poor guy's been left out. Considering the hintings of a romantic pairing for Nadia and Weiss, I'd say that he's got to get in at some point. Grunberg plays a great third wheel, though, so I have a feeling that he'll be hysterical in the role.
In terms of the big revelation from the episode?
It is the end of an era. If only Olin could have gotten that damn Emmy, I think she might have come back. But alas, she was unwilling to continue, and for this reason the Derevko storyline changed forever. It is clear, to me, that there is something else to this revelation. It's almost Spider-Man esque, in many ways, while at the same time something very interesting to see. There is something wrong with the whole situation; it is obvious that she is dead and that any chance of Olin returning are gone. But there has to be something to this that is missing...her mother's reasons for having her killed are ambiguous to even Jack. What revelation would she have had that she felt she had to kill her daughter. And what were the papers that WE saw in Wittenburg. The assumption made about those papers was entirely false on my part and in most major analysis of the show. Where in the hell did this murder thing come from?
On the whole, I really enjoyed the episode. It was no ground-breaking episode like Phase One. It was no incredibly exciting, rollercoaster ride of adrenaline filled action. Instead, it was enough of the classic Alias formula (Sydney kicking ass, Marshall being hysterical, a little bit of romance and a little bit of murder-filled intrigure) that was just enough to give new viewers a taste of the show, as well as enough character interaction to make fans giddy. And that's what the show needs. It'll take time to get used to the new Alias. The APO is a new start for not only those involved, but the series as well. For now, I'm more than along for the ride. Let's keep it that way, JJ.
Welcome back, Alias. How I missed you.
Fifty said:Nice writeup Memles, thanks for taking the time that I didn't. I totally agree. Anyone else think that the new APO office looks like they're inside a giant ipod? :lol
It's a great set...not quite as good as the SD-6 set, but still a good set in terms of its look. A giant iPod would work...I really think that, if you put silhouette people in it, it could be the set of an iPod commercial.
Okay, I am on the fence. But first off, major props to the great inside joke that nobody here seems to have noticed.
Vaughn: "Last year sucked!" :lol :lol :lol
My primary reservation is that they are just totally pandering for ratings now. The first hint was the cruddy new opening sequence showing off the many "sexy" outfits of Sydney. The second was that while her outfits used to be sexy in a kinky-roleplay sort of way...but not too revealing. Now they are just totally slutty. Boob bouncing to the max when she was running around in that schoolgirl fetish outfit. I worry that she is just going to be turned into a Barbie doll. The worst indicator is the addition of Nadia/Maria Santos. "Hey guys, focus group research shows that some guys don't think Jennifer Garner is very sexy! How about we add in an even sexier exotic bombshell and dress her up super-slutty?!" If every mission is going to be accomplished by seducing some guy, then I'll be annoyed. Buffy had a hot heroine but she was always treated with respect. Now it seems to be going in the direction of Dark Angel...
Irina Derevko is dead? At first I didn't care because well, unless you see a character's death onscreen, you can never really assume that they are permanently gone. I figured that with the offscreen death they are just leaving their options open in case Lena Olin wants to come back. But then at the end, Sydney says she found her mother, identified the body, examined it, and had it moved to the mausoleum. Unless she is in some kind of conspiracy with her mom, that pretty much closes the door on the character. In some sense it is disappointing, but in another way I think it lets viewers move on and quit spending their time rooting for Derevko's very unlikely return. Is it me or was it completely obvious who the Asian guy's client was as soon as he talked about a hit that was called off after a client's death? They showed their hand way too much on that one....editors should have cut the Sloane-Jack dialogue where he said "The real truth would incapcitate her".
Assuming that there is no Irina-Sydney conspiracy (or no dead clone of Irina)....why did she want to kill her daughter? The best guess is that she uncovered some Rambaldi prophecy that said Sydney was going to do something terrible to bring about the end of the world (as in that Season 1 episode). The problem with that theory is that if they are truly leaving Rambaldi behind, then it doesn't seem particularly likely.
I was a little annoyed at how things from last season were so quickly resolved....it would have been better to have all that stuff drawn out over a few weeks rather than swept up in a single night. Seeing Sloane and Nadia''s hunt for the Rambaldi artifact would have been nice.
On the positive side, it is clear that they are getting back to the things that people liked in the early season. Sydney has to lead a double life again -- hiding secrets from Weiss and Nadia. Sloane remains a major player rather than background, Dixon and Jack are big players instead of bit parts. I enjoyed the bit where Jack pulls up in the Chinese police car -- a very clear reference to a similar sequence in the pilot episode.
Also -- am I the only one that's a bit tired of the "72 Hours Earlier" narrative device? It's a nice excuse to start the episode with a big action sequence, but I liked the show much better in the first season when they ended every episode with a cliffhanger (and thus had an excuse to begin the subsequent episode with action). I am guessing that that got swept under the rug because it was alienating casual viewers. The "Sydney cries as heartfelt music plays" ending is approaching cliche status as well.
At the end of the day, the premiere has promise and I still like the show. But out of all my favorite shows, it seems like this one is the one that has constantly compromised its vision to cater to network execs and fickle audiences. It still appears to be going in that direction, and that is my main worry. I don't care too much about the death of the Rambaldi plotline (it really went out of control last year), but I will be upset if they don't have some new, interesting plot arc to take its place.
Vaughn: "Last year sucked!" :lol :lol :lol
My primary reservation is that they are just totally pandering for ratings now. The first hint was the cruddy new opening sequence showing off the many "sexy" outfits of Sydney. The second was that while her outfits used to be sexy in a kinky-roleplay sort of way...but not too revealing. Now they are just totally slutty. Boob bouncing to the max when she was running around in that schoolgirl fetish outfit. I worry that she is just going to be turned into a Barbie doll. The worst indicator is the addition of Nadia/Maria Santos. "Hey guys, focus group research shows that some guys don't think Jennifer Garner is very sexy! How about we add in an even sexier exotic bombshell and dress her up super-slutty?!" If every mission is going to be accomplished by seducing some guy, then I'll be annoyed. Buffy had a hot heroine but she was always treated with respect. Now it seems to be going in the direction of Dark Angel...
Irina Derevko is dead? At first I didn't care because well, unless you see a character's death onscreen, you can never really assume that they are permanently gone. I figured that with the offscreen death they are just leaving their options open in case Lena Olin wants to come back. But then at the end, Sydney says she found her mother, identified the body, examined it, and had it moved to the mausoleum. Unless she is in some kind of conspiracy with her mom, that pretty much closes the door on the character. In some sense it is disappointing, but in another way I think it lets viewers move on and quit spending their time rooting for Derevko's very unlikely return. Is it me or was it completely obvious who the Asian guy's client was as soon as he talked about a hit that was called off after a client's death? They showed their hand way too much on that one....editors should have cut the Sloane-Jack dialogue where he said "The real truth would incapcitate her".
Assuming that there is no Irina-Sydney conspiracy (or no dead clone of Irina)....why did she want to kill her daughter? The best guess is that she uncovered some Rambaldi prophecy that said Sydney was going to do something terrible to bring about the end of the world (as in that Season 1 episode). The problem with that theory is that if they are truly leaving Rambaldi behind, then it doesn't seem particularly likely.
I was a little annoyed at how things from last season were so quickly resolved....it would have been better to have all that stuff drawn out over a few weeks rather than swept up in a single night. Seeing Sloane and Nadia''s hunt for the Rambaldi artifact would have been nice.
On the positive side, it is clear that they are getting back to the things that people liked in the early season. Sydney has to lead a double life again -- hiding secrets from Weiss and Nadia. Sloane remains a major player rather than background, Dixon and Jack are big players instead of bit parts. I enjoyed the bit where Jack pulls up in the Chinese police car -- a very clear reference to a similar sequence in the pilot episode.
Also -- am I the only one that's a bit tired of the "72 Hours Earlier" narrative device? It's a nice excuse to start the episode with a big action sequence, but I liked the show much better in the first season when they ended every episode with a cliffhanger (and thus had an excuse to begin the subsequent episode with action). I am guessing that that got swept under the rug because it was alienating casual viewers. The "Sydney cries as heartfelt music plays" ending is approaching cliche status as well.
At the end of the day, the premiere has promise and I still like the show. But out of all my favorite shows, it seems like this one is the one that has constantly compromised its vision to cater to network execs and fickle audiences. It still appears to be going in that direction, and that is my main worry. I don't care too much about the death of the Rambaldi plotline (it really went out of control last year), but I will be upset if they don't have some new, interesting plot arc to take its place.
border said:
I had read that in an article beforehand. I preferred Marshall's "Robot Dixon" to it, in terms of tongue-in-cheek.
I agree with you, especially in terms of the gow-awful opening sequence. I loved the simplicity of the opening sequence before. Now, it's all Sydney, and I dislike that. Mia Maestro, who plays Nadia...I don't see that being so much of a stretch. We knew the character existed already, and she was being pegged as a regular as far back as her appearances last season. I think that is definitely a device to keep the show interesting, but at the same time I DO find it interesting from the perspective of it playing into the whole Irina thing.
Really, my big concern is the plot. I love where they've taken these characters back to, and although there are some issues (Like how these people can work with Sloane. He killed your family members or soon-to-be ones, Syd and Dixon!), it works. My concern is that, although the fun and spy stuff may be back in full force, the driving core of the show is now gone, and there does need to be something to replace it. As it is, I enjoyed this. My concern is more or less for how it goes in the future.
I can look past the bad opening if the ratings end up great. If they hold up, and the show becomes more successful, I think it's worth it.
On the note of the 72 hours...in this case I thought it was a brilliant move. If people continued watching right after Lost, they saw that 72 hours and they have an artifical cliffhanger. It was resolved within 40 minutes, so there was no big wait. But, the hope is that they'd be hooked enough by then that they'd stick around and enjoy the show. I don't like it to be overused, but at the same time I liked its use here, for the purpose of the episode, and didn't think pandering to the audience affected the episode with it...it just worked for me.
border said:
I don't like it when it's overused, but 2-3 times a season is OK, and I especially don't like it when the end of the teaser is the same cliffhanger as the end of the episode. I'm not sure if they've done it yet, but I don't like the idea of sitting through an hour and ending up at square one. Tonight, when they resolved the "72 hours later" story, we still had over 1 hour left, so I can't say I minded it. If they ended the episode with her falling off the train, and that being the cliffhanger, I'm not sure if I'd still have the same patience for the style choice.
I'm not sure if it had compromised its vision (save for a few obvious instances this episode, it was the premiere after all, they want to drag in casual fans) as much as it had lost it. Last season was a mess, the show runners weren't doing a good job, and people didn't like the direction it took. Alias is a network TV show, so it's going to be hard for them to keep their vision as pure as it once was, but if going back to their roots will help, then so be it.
Edit: I'm tired, so let me quote memles to make more sense
Yes, that's exactly what they did, and why it worked so well this time. Everyone got the initial cliffhanger resolved, and if they dug the show, they'd get basically a 2 for 1 deal on Alias episodes.
I know Jen is marketable as hell, but I'd love it if they had shots of the entire cast (alongside their names when they appear) instead of just her. Whatever, I bet they'll figure out what works
Has the show ever even ended in a cliffhanger since the first season? I mean a true cliffhanger, where Sydney is in actual phsyical peril....about to be killed, tortured, or captured. It seems like they totally did away with that about halfway through the first season. In early episodes, they would end right in the middle of a mission. Now, the mission is always concluded. Episodes might end with a thought provoking revelation, but there is still closure to the missions.
"72 Hours Later" only really works when they twist things up on you. The only example I can think of is the Season 2 episode where
somebody is killed by a sniper bullet and you think it's Sydney, but it turns out that it is Sloane's wife.
Mmmmm, I think if you read interviews with Abrams, you'll see that a lot of the changes were invoked by audience reactions and focus groups and stuff. Apparently they had planned to
destroy SD-6
Virgin Wii
Banned
Is Alias a good show for someone who likes Angel? I read somewhere that it was a horror/scifi hybrid deal, so it sounds interesting.
maybe im just getting better at this but i saw that ending as soon as i realised what jack had done (though i didnt get that straight away) i used to left going WHA?!?! at the end of alias, without the WHA?!?! factor all im left to praise is the shots of Garner in sexy white lingerie.
So i rate the show 9.9/10
So i rate the show 9.9/10
Crazymoogle
Member
border said:
I've never seen any episode of the show prior to last night, so can I assume the Derevko character was equivalent to Nina on 24 in terms of villainy, stirring shit up, and popping in every season against all odds?
Crazymoogle said:
More like "Pops up at end of First Season, ends up as the major source of tension in the entire second season, and then disappears after the actress has a contract issue with the network, resulting in less Irina and more bad...ness". More consistent than Nina, much better character overall.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
It was a decent opener. So many things to comment on, I hope I get them all.
First of all, it was much, much better than last year's opener (which was...awful). It was no season 2 opener (S2 spoiler
), but that's ok, as long as they take it on from here. It's such a completely obvious attempt to recapture the magic of S1/S2, but I can look past how forced it felt so long as they actually do recapture the magic.
As for the way last season joins to this and any problems there, I think it's pretty clear that they weren't intending to go in this direction, at least not completely. I've avoided JJ Abrams interviews as best I could for fear of spoilers, but I did read one not too long after the end of S3 where he says he only realised how much poorer the show had become when he looked back on it. Now I'm hoping that they've ignored some things completely from the end of S3, namely the
. God what were they thinking with that? Just horrible. Other things I think they're carrying on with, just not in the way they originally were. Sloane and Nadia finding the artifact may be one, but who knows what direction they were going with that. Maybe it was always meant to happen off screen.
though is surely one. When Sydney's going through those documents, it sure as hell seems like more than one page is upsetting her, plus what SKluck pointed out.
I don't however think we should see this as meaning the Rambaldi and Derevko storylines as being completely abandoned. I prefer to see it as a realisation of another flaw of S3: namely that Rambaldi stopped driving the story and instead became the story. A more subtle use of Rambaldi and the artifacts is just what the show needs, like in S1/S2.
As for Derevko, I'm glad
. I'll forever hate Lena Olin for abandoning Alias S3, though ever love her for what she contributed to S2. The hopes in the writers' minds that she would maybe return someday was holding the story back. I think it's pretty obvious that S3 suffered hugely without her. For a start we lost a main bad guy. With Sloane
and Irena missing, we had to rely on Sark taking over. I like Sark a lot, but not as the main bad guy. I'm glad to see he's no longer in the main cast list, that to me is a pretty strong indicator that there'll either be a new main bad guy, or one of those we've seen before will be it (Sloane, Kataya, McKenas Cole [yeah right, good luck getting Tarantino in the show regularly]). The other way S3 suffered was that I think it's pretty damn obvious now that Irena was the head of the Covenant. Her presence could have turned an organisation that was just terrible when compared to the Alliance/Sloane and her own into a good part of the story. Like I say though, I don't necessarily think
will just be pushed to the side. I expect ramifications. Don't forget she's got one or two sisters out there, and who knows how they'll react.
And who's to say we know the whole story? I never look at things at face value with Alias. Has anyone considered the possibility that (I'm spoilering this, but it's just a guess. I just don't personally like reading people's guesses if they turn out true. It probably won't, I'm sure they Alias writers have a better imagination than me...anyway....)
Well that's just an idea anyway, I'm just illustrating how things aren't necessarily wrapped up neatly from last season just because it seems that way initially.
This episode was definitely a new start (in an old way, if you see what I mean) for Alias, no doubt both to draw in new fans and take us back to a winning formula (hopefully). That gives little in the way of room for complex continuity from the past, which was kind of missing, but they can build up new things from now on.
Please let this season bring us back to the glory days of S1/S2. As good as Lost is, as good as Angel was, as good as any show I can think of, those two seasons matched them.
Oh and I hope Sloane's bad again. I miss bad Sloane.
First of all, it was much, much better than last year's opener (which was...awful). It was no season 2 opener (S2 spoiler
Derevko "walking into" the CIA? Fuck yeah!
As for the way last season joins to this and any problems there, I think it's pretty clear that they weren't intending to go in this direction, at least not completely. I've avoided JJ Abrams interviews as best I could for fear of spoilers, but I did read one not too long after the end of S3 where he says he only realised how much poorer the show had become when he looked back on it. Now I'm hoping that they've ignored some things completely from the end of S3, namely the
M.I. style mask thing
Derevko being assasinated
I don't however think we should see this as meaning the Rambaldi and Derevko storylines as being completely abandoned. I prefer to see it as a realisation of another flaw of S3: namely that Rambaldi stopped driving the story and instead became the story. A more subtle use of Rambaldi and the artifacts is just what the show needs, like in S1/S2.
As for Derevko, I'm glad
they killed her off
"good"
her death
And who's to say we know the whole story? I never look at things at face value with Alias. Has anyone considered the possibility that (I'm spoilering this, but it's just a guess. I just don't personally like reading people's guesses if they turn out true. It probably won't, I'm sure they Alias writers have a better imagination than me...anyway....)
Derevko wasn't going to have Sydney assasinated at all? Sloane could have set it all up. He doesn't want Sydney dead, but he could have gone to that assasin guy (not Sloane personally, some lackey) in Irena's name, leaked the news to the CIA knowing that Jack would have no choice but to take her out. After all, from last year we know Sloane was putting pressure on Derevko and she showed him he wasn't untouchable by almost having Jack kill him, it'd be poetic justice to do it in return. As for his reasoning...well, we know Sloane and Derevko were rivals in the Rambaldi hunt, perhaps she was getting too close to something. Or perhaps he was feeling personally threatened by her.
This episode was definitely a new start (in an old way, if you see what I mean) for Alias, no doubt both to draw in new fans and take us back to a winning formula (hopefully). That gives little in the way of room for complex continuity from the past, which was kind of missing, but they can build up new things from now on.
Please let this season bring us back to the glory days of S1/S2. As good as Lost is, as good as Angel was, as good as any show I can think of, those two seasons matched them.
Oh and I hope Sloane's bad again. I miss bad Sloane.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
The writers didn't know wtf to do with the Covenant once they found they didn't have their leader anymore. That was one fucked up organisation. There was Lauren, Lauren's mum, Sark, the cell leaders, Cole, that black dude...and they couldn't find a single leader amongst any of them.
It was also ridiculous that Sark and Lauren became cell leaders and then continued in the field as they always had. I understand it on Lauren's side, but not Sark's. We should have seen him in an office playing the Sloane role, he should have been ordering people below him to do things rather than doing them himself.
If the Covenant are ignored from now on (which I'd be quite happy to see), I'm going to assume it fell apart with the
, Sark's capture, the previous deaths of the other cell leaders, that black dude's death (I couldn't even remember his name during the episodes he was in for some reason) and, presumably,
.
It was also ridiculous that Sark and Lauren became cell leaders and then continued in the field as they always had. I understand it on Lauren's side, but not Sark's. We should have seen him in an office playing the Sloane role, he should have been ordering people below him to do things rather than doing them himself.
If the Covenant are ignored from now on (which I'd be quite happy to see), I'm going to assume it fell apart with the
death of Lauren
their overall leader's death in Irena
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