If you want to hear Sterling flip out listen to ep 240, first thing they talk about.
http://destructoid.libsyn.com/
http://destructoid.libsyn.com/
Aliens: Colonial Marines demo vs. final build
- Thread starter SolidSnakex
- Start date
Considering Obisidian classified it as "ready to ship" I'm incredibly surprised we don't know far more about this game.
NeededSleep
Member
that makes me sad. Wonder what it would of been like.If it's any consolation, JE Sawyer (Ropekid on SomethingAwful forums) has said that the game was "not even remotely close to being finished":
http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...erid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=48#post412498094
Weirdly enough, you can totally tell that it's all prerendered CGI and not actual ingame footage due to the way things animate and interact. Not that I could tell at the time that was first shown but it's really apparent now.
The A:CM demo has few of those traits (minus the weird off-centre shooting gun and the overabundance of custom animations).
There need to be rules against this sort of thing though. Both this and the FC3 demo were hot BS (as was the Halo 2 one) but at least in those other games the final product wasn't a massive degradation in quality in almost every way.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
from polycount: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1775801&postcount=182
http://ryanhawkins.cghub.com/images/
Points out that after 6 years, they still weren't anywhere near complete on their new lighting engine. I'm going to guess it ended up taking up too many resources and they had to scrap a lot of work.
also ryan:
http://ryanhawkins.cghub.com/images/
Points out that after 6 years, they still weren't anywhere near complete on their new lighting engine. I'm going to guess it ended up taking up too many resources and they had to scrap a lot of work.
also ryan:
soxinthebox
Member
legit example of lazy devs?
Hmmm...
How about a legit example of letting things pile up so much, to the point where they were left with no choice but to outsource and cobble together what they could, to produce a game for Sega. It's poor project management that led up to this mess.
They backed themselves into a corner, and at that point there's really no hope of producing a quality game. It seems clear they just pushed out something that can be considered a functioning video game, once they knew they couldn't ask Sega for another extension.
Barkley's Justice
Member
It's called editing. I'm not saying they were the right chiices but man, you guys should collaborate with a group of people and make something on your own if you want to understand the dynamics about how and why things like this happen.
If you want total control of something, make something on your own.
If you want total control of something, make something on your own.
Other teams have managed to "edit" with out turning out turds like this.
Look dark, we are on a hate train here. To say Gearbox has ever made a decent game isnt the reality of this thread.
Its a stupid theory and just cause its the only one you can think of doesnt make it any more true.
Fox Mulder
Member
It'll be interesting to see if a lawsuit happens, or if Sega is just a sad shell that basically let a company fuck them over for years due to horrible management.
Going by that "leaked" gameplay demo in this thread, it looked horrible. Combat just didn't look satisfying for a third person shooter of 2009.
Also AP's sequel was what was canceled, not Alien's itself. It was only Gearbox's deception of a more appealing game (see demos) that got Sega to can the Aliens RPG, IIRC.
As I said in the other thread:
Sega said:
They didn't mention it, but obviously Colonial Marines was a huge part of that decision.
I think at this point it's important to remember that right now there are a lot of accusations/claims being made and fingers being pointed by anonymous sources from around the web and almost none of it has (or can) been verified to be true or accurate as of yet. Right now, it's just a matter of everyone blaming everyone and we we don't actually know all that much outside of the usual internet rumor-mongering.
I'm sure, eventually, we'll know at least some of the story. But until then a lot of this is just rampant speculation being spun magically into fact.
Warm Machine
Member
Timeshift from 2007 has more dynamic lighting, shader effects, and stuff going on than Aliens does.
Know what, any time anyone I know is considering buying a gearbox game, I'm going to point out Gearbox decided to lie about the game and shift resources to their own games. They lied about the status of the game and tried to shift the blame, they're a really trashy outfit in my eyes now.
I have no idea what happened with this game. It seems like garbage, and honestly I never had any hope that it wouldn't be. That dev walkthrough video certainly looked better, but it also reeks of a highlight real demo made specifically to showcase what they want to do over the course of the whole game. Remember that this walkthrough is over a year old. All sorts of shit could have happened both legit and not so legit to result in the final product not matching up. I thought it would be fun to compile a list of similar situations. Here are some examples of why this whole thing doesn't surprise me. Note that quality screenshots are hard to find for a lot of older stuff and videos demonstrate gameplay changes better anyways. Also I'm only mentioning changed elements that the public was shown before release.
Things Change
Metal Gear Solid 2
E3 2001
Kojima put Snake into scenes that Raiden was actually in. Tricking people into thinking the game featured Snake.
Half-Life 2
E3 2003
Hydra scene from screen shots
Hard to tell with this one considering the whole theft Valve had to deal with, so they maybe had to change things. Much of these famous demonstrations were purely tech orientated (with rooms created to demonstrate physics for example). Still many locations and situations were scripted. Particularly the AI which in the final game was terrible. These demos really only demonstrated the physics and animation systems.
Halo 2
E3 2003 trailer
Correct me if i'm wrong, but some gameplay concepts are the only thing in this demo that remains in the final game.
Metal Gear Solid 4
TGS 2005 Reveal trailer
Running on hardware that turned out not to match up with the final PS3 hardware resulting in a lower quality visual experience in the end. Also while some of the scenes in this are in the final game while others are not. Obviously the beginning and end were never intended to be part of the final game. Kojima's ambitions in this game about "no place to hide" were exaggerated as well.
E3 06 Trailer
Contains more scenes and character models that were not in the final game.
Resistance Fall of Man
E3 2005
Obviously real time gameplay, but barely resembles the final product.
GDC 2006 (Final Version essentially)
Heavenly Sword
E3 2005 Reveal Trailer
E3 2006 Real trailer
Some of the reveal trailer seems to be CG while the rest of it is speculative unfinished graphics that probably had to be toned down when they got their hands on final hardware.
Bioshock
E3 2006 Dev Walkthrough
Contains some graphic effects, locations, and scenarios not found in the final game.
Homefront
E3 2009 Debut
lol
Assassin's Creed III
Canoes no longer in the game
Water freezing over that would let you access new areas.
Peter Molyneux
Lies of Omission
These are trailers that had been insinuated or out right suggested were real gameplay when in reality they were completely CG. I don't think you'll be seeing much of this anymore. 05 and 06 were really the years where this was popular.
Brother's in Arms Hell's Highway
Summer 2006 Reveal Trailer
Final game
Killzone 2
E3 2005 Reveal Trailer
E3 2007 Real Game
Motorstorm
E3 2005 Reveal Trailer
Final Game
The Future
Biohsock Infinite
September 2010 First Gameplay Trailer
Story and world elements have been changed for the final version including the main villain, and i'd be very curious to see if this sequence as you see it is actually in the final game. There were questions at the first E3 it was shown at if the final version would turn out to be that dense.
The Last of Us
E3 2012 Demo
Some people were worried this E3 demo was heavily scripted. Naughty Dog insisted it wasn't with Kojima even chimes in to confirm that it wasn't.
Watch_Dogs
E3 2012
Is that car pileup actually something you will do or is it entirely scripted with every car ending up in the position the developers intended? Is it a one off mission or can you just do this whenever? Does it matter?
Prey 2
CG Trailer
According to the developer on this commentary. Their goal was to create a CG trailer where everything you see can be done in the game.
E3 2011
Seems to have turned out pretty close gameplay wise. Really curious if this is going to end up on next gen consoles and be even closer to that trailer.
The Rest
There are so many more. Shadow of the Colossus, DmC, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Team Fortress 2, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 4, Splinter Cell: Conviction, Star Fox Adventures, Borderlands, Duke Nukem Forever, Final Fantasy XII, and of course Too Human are all other games that changed at least a little during development.
I'm not trying to make a false equivocation with every single game here by the way. There are of course varying degrees with all of these. Some turned out completely different and did not live up. Others did not live up to the original vision, but were good in their own right, and plenty of them ended up sticking pretty close to what was shown in development. I'm one of those people who love MGS2 and 4. I loved the bait and switch of MGS2, and I understand Koji-Pro having to work with the early PS3 specs. Recent Bioshock Infinite hands on seem to suggest they matched that first gameplay demonstration and Half-Life 2 turned out to be one of my favorite games of all time. Game development is tough and always in flux. Many of the stuff you see is really early. If a game turns out to be shit I understand the hate, but is this really some crazy revelation? This is sort of expected is it not?
Of course the specifics of this project could reveal the mechanics behind it all. There could be something more nefarious at work here, but at this point until concrete information comes out i'm willing to accept that this was just your average troubled development with high hopes that just didn't work out.
Things Change
Metal Gear Solid 2
E3 2001
Kojima put Snake into scenes that Raiden was actually in. Tricking people into thinking the game featured Snake.
Half-Life 2
E3 2003
Hydra scene from screen shots
Hard to tell with this one considering the whole theft Valve had to deal with, so they maybe had to change things. Much of these famous demonstrations were purely tech orientated (with rooms created to demonstrate physics for example). Still many locations and situations were scripted. Particularly the AI which in the final game was terrible. These demos really only demonstrated the physics and animation systems.
Halo 2
E3 2003 trailer
Correct me if i'm wrong, but some gameplay concepts are the only thing in this demo that remains in the final game.
Metal Gear Solid 4
TGS 2005 Reveal trailer
Running on hardware that turned out not to match up with the final PS3 hardware resulting in a lower quality visual experience in the end. Also while some of the scenes in this are in the final game while others are not. Obviously the beginning and end were never intended to be part of the final game. Kojima's ambitions in this game about "no place to hide" were exaggerated as well.
E3 06 Trailer
Contains more scenes and character models that were not in the final game.
Resistance Fall of Man
E3 2005
Obviously real time gameplay, but barely resembles the final product.
GDC 2006 (Final Version essentially)
Heavenly Sword
E3 2005 Reveal Trailer
E3 2006 Real trailer
Some of the reveal trailer seems to be CG while the rest of it is speculative unfinished graphics that probably had to be toned down when they got their hands on final hardware.
Bioshock
E3 2006 Dev Walkthrough
Contains some graphic effects, locations, and scenarios not found in the final game.
Homefront
E3 2009 Debut
lol
Assassin's Creed III
Canoes no longer in the game
Water freezing over that would let you access new areas.
Peter Molyneux
Lies of Omission
These are trailers that had been insinuated or out right suggested were real gameplay when in reality they were completely CG. I don't think you'll be seeing much of this anymore. 05 and 06 were really the years where this was popular.
Brother's in Arms Hell's Highway
Summer 2006 Reveal Trailer
Final game
Killzone 2
E3 2005 Reveal Trailer
E3 2007 Real Game
Motorstorm
E3 2005 Reveal Trailer
Final Game
The Future
Biohsock Infinite
September 2010 First Gameplay Trailer
Story and world elements have been changed for the final version including the main villain, and i'd be very curious to see if this sequence as you see it is actually in the final game. There were questions at the first E3 it was shown at if the final version would turn out to be that dense.
The Last of Us
E3 2012 Demo
Some people were worried this E3 demo was heavily scripted. Naughty Dog insisted it wasn't with Kojima even chimes in to confirm that it wasn't.
Watch_Dogs
E3 2012
Is that car pileup actually something you will do or is it entirely scripted with every car ending up in the position the developers intended? Is it a one off mission or can you just do this whenever? Does it matter?
Prey 2
CG Trailer
According to the developer on this commentary. Their goal was to create a CG trailer where everything you see can be done in the game.
E3 2011
Seems to have turned out pretty close gameplay wise. Really curious if this is going to end up on next gen consoles and be even closer to that trailer.
The Rest
There are so many more. Shadow of the Colossus, DmC, Conker's Bad Fur Day, Team Fortress 2, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 4, Splinter Cell: Conviction, Star Fox Adventures, Borderlands, Duke Nukem Forever, Final Fantasy XII, and of course Too Human are all other games that changed at least a little during development.
I'm not trying to make a false equivocation with every single game here by the way. There are of course varying degrees with all of these. Some turned out completely different and did not live up. Others did not live up to the original vision, but were good in their own right, and plenty of them ended up sticking pretty close to what was shown in development. I'm one of those people who love MGS2 and 4. I loved the bait and switch of MGS2, and I understand Koji-Pro having to work with the early PS3 specs. Recent Bioshock Infinite hands on seem to suggest they matched that first gameplay demonstration and Half-Life 2 turned out to be one of my favorite games of all time. Game development is tough and always in flux. Many of the stuff you see is really early. If a game turns out to be shit I understand the hate, but is this really some crazy revelation? This is sort of expected is it not?
Of course the specifics of this project could reveal the mechanics behind it all. There could be something more nefarious at work here, but at this point until concrete information comes out i'm willing to accept that this was just your average troubled development with high hopes that just didn't work out.
Here you go, gaffers. My video is complete. I had a lot of laughs making this.
Aliens: Colonial Marines - A Tale of Strife
Aliens: Colonial Marines - A Tale of Strife
educator
Member
Haha. They didn't even remove comments like that in the config-file? This is a mess, I wonder how the source code looks. Must be very ineffective and it's probably F'ed up beyond all repair.
But seriously, I hope the code leaks, I really want to take a look at it.
I remember being incredibly hyped after watching that and then incredibly let down when I actually played the game.
Chairmanchuck
Member
I can't imagine how bad the source code to this game must be. It's probably riddled with damning comments in the code, to boot.
It's bad enough trying to have multiple people work on the same game over a 6 year period, but having to rush the game at the end of development to try and cram essential features in and make it playable with little to no QA time is going to make for some pretty shitty code. So, I agree that it would be glorious if it ever did leak.
I have a feeling that the companies involved are going to lock that away and try their best to forget it ever happened, though.
That's a pretty accurate description :lol
Apocryphon
Member
Messofanego
Banned
This one still hurts. Earth looked way more epic in that, in the actual game it was so short, boxed in, and lacking spectacle.
I'm not sure why people are specifically up in arms over the Aliens: CM demo versus final, when it's been done for a lot of games as you've mentioned. It's not like the whole gameplay changed, they just removed some scripted bits, dynamic lighting, and fog. Still would've been the same bad game where aliens died easily just like in the demo.
Pachterballs
Banned
lol
The Halo 2 one was a bit different though. That was real gameplay, but apparently it was only realised after that E3 presentation that the debug Xbox (or devkit, can't remember the details) had 256mb of ram and the game demo wouldn't run at all on retail units so the level had to be redesigned. There was an interview floating around the time of Halo 2 release date.
They also claimed it just took too long to develop the self contained demo shown at E3. Which seems to be a somewhat common occurrence in general for E3 builds.
I certainly wasn't. Just providing other examples where this has occurred.
Messofanego
Banned
We're just not going over to the other extreme of suing these people who do them. Vertical slices where a bunch of the team is dedicated to making an E3 demo which takes away development time as a practice should go away. Maybe a required byline from now on for vertical slices to have legal disclaimers like in UK advertising that "this is not representative of actual gameplay" like the Nintendo Wii U ad that was banned, so that it can be actionable when there is a big difference. Then, sue away!
None of them ended up being a horrible trainwreck though. They were good on their own, and didn't cling onto a year old fabricated trailer to do a blatant bait & switch for a barely functional outsourced job they had to fix in 4 months...
I mean, it's easy to go overboard on your estimations about how the final product would be (especially when working with unfinished hardware) and features go back and forth the design board lots of times, but this is a completely different issue.
Yep, really doesn't bother me as much with a game like Halo 2 since the final product was great anyway.
What happened with A:CM is a different story considering how poor the game turned out to be upon release. The example of Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway is a much closer comparison, which of course is also a Gearbox game.
Fucking snake oil bullshit. Randy Pitch-man strikes again.
They're called illusions. A trick is something a whore does for money.
As much as I despised Sony at the time for pulling that CG crap, Guerilla performed fucking admirably. Between the polycount of their models and the deferred lighting, it is still a marvel to look at today.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Or cocaine.