Support NeoGAF

[johnjohn]

They somehow managed to make it more disappointing than expected...

 

[akimbo009]

I thought Jimbo was going to fuck over everyone and make everyone pay $120 for PS+ but all this does is merge the two services together.

I am glad there are no day one releases. I dont know how Microsoft justifies it but it is not sustainable to put games with 5 years dev time on a service for $10.

I, too, hate value.

 

[RAIDEN1]

So for games like Resistance fall of Man, and Motostorm, and Spec Ops the Line, and MGS HD edition, you'd be better off with a real PS3..or why not just get a great running emulator for the Xbox Series X that allows you to upscale some of the older games...

 

[Keihart]

Yes, they were different and not crossbuy, were different ports/emulations since PS4 wasn't BC and its PS2 games included trophies etc. But this is the exception, in all the other cases you bought a game one and have been able to play it for free in all the consoles capable to run it.

Your digital PSP games were crossbuy in the platform you were able to play them: PSP and Vita. Same with PS One Classics: bought it one and playable on PSP, Vita, PS3. PS5 was BC with digital PS4 games

And discs were also playable on consoles that were able to run them. PS4 on PS5, PS1 on PS2 and PS3. PS2 on the BC PS3.


What is your source to claim that? Where Sony did announce that they are going to remove the PS2 from the PSN store?

can you play any of your PS2, PS1 games on PS4 now?
You can't, it would be amazing if it happened but im inclined to think that they won't. They haven't supported cross buy for a while now.

All the PS2 classics poofed off the store when they killed support for PS3, some remain without a buy option. PSP games and PS1 are in the same situation. (yes, there are some PS2 Classics that you have to buy again, no cross buy)

I have a whole fucking lot of PS2, PS1 and PSP games on my account that are hostage to the old consoles and i feel that PS is just gonna ask me to pay a subscription if i wanna play them on PS4 or PS5.

Here is hoping im wrong and they bring back my legacy library.

 

[AV]

I, too, hate value.

You do have to wonder how it is that all the smartest money-men are actually lurking NeoGAF on a weekday and not already working for literally the most profitable company on the planet.

 

[DavidGzz]

Dang, guess I'll keep not subbing. Oh wells

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

BOOM! And just like that double the subscribers of the Game Pass. Your move, Microsoft.

That's one thing Sony's done which is pretty smart from a business POV: merge the services together. Microsoft should've merged XBL Gold into base GamePass IMHO, and saved Day 1 releases for GamePass Ultimate (and probably gotten away with $20/month).

There's been some obvious friction in getting GamePass subscribers faster partly due to XBL Gold still being available and keeping some folks who'd otherwise have moved over to GamePass, and it's obvious Microsoft can't rush them to GP too soon without anything that'd cause backlash. Sony wants to avoid that friction at all costs so why not just roll over PS Now subs to an appropriate tier of the new service?

 

[Calverz]

If they are downloadable native apps, why wouldnt they sell the games too?

Why wouldn't they want to sell them individually?? I dont get it.

To lock people into subscriptions.
I hope I’m wrong, I have lots of purchased ps1 and 2 games on ps3.

 

[SlimySnake]

You do have to wonder how it is that all the smartest money-men are actually lurking NeoGAF on a weekday and not already working for literally the most profitable company on the planet.

Precisely. Microsoft makes $40 billion in profits every year so they can afford to take losses on gamepass and their xbox division. Sony makes only a fraction of that, and most of it from its Playstation division. They cant afford to be giving away their $70 games for $10.

 

[Radioskugga]

I´m ok with this. Going for the Premium one. I have PS+ and Now so it's not that big change, money wise.

 

[Topher]

Has PS Now streaming improved at all in the last year or so? Last time I tried it, it was horrible. I might be willing to give Premium a shot but not if it is as bad as I remember.

 

[0neAnd0nly]

I and a bunch of other fans do.
GT3 had way less cars and the singleplayer didn't compare. also no online and it had a worse aesthetic tbh. the soundtrack was the best in the series though

FINE!

Haha. I guess I am thinking purely on innovation and standard setting, GT3 was huge. I am also a way bigger fan of the driving. I understand the content argument, it’s just interesting because most of my circle feels like 3 was the tops.

Ha.

Here nor there, hope your day is good!

 

[CosmicComet]

Jim really took a look at Gamepass and said let's make it more expensive and worse.

I can't believe there were idiots thinking the news had anything to do buying From, Capcom or SE. Lol.

The announcement was even worse than I thought since it didn't get accompanied by Ragnarok news.

 

[IDKFA]

Let me buy PS1 and PS2 games individually or fuck off

I hope this is an option, and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be.

You can buy and download individual OGXB and 360 games on the Xbox store, so no reason why Sony shouldn't have the option to purchase legacy PS games. Fingers crossed.

 

[jshackles]

I have plus paid off till 2026 is there a way to upgrade?

Nobody knows yet. I suspect we'll find out when they "reveal more information closer to launch".

 

[THE DUCK]

Precisely. Microsoft makes $40 billion in profits every year so they can afford to take losses on gamepass and their xbox division. Sony makes only a fraction of that, and most of it from its Playstation division. They cant afford to be giving away their $70 games for $10.

I guess it could be that, or that MS, who you have just stated, is very profitable and smart, knows that gamepass will make them money down the road. A lot of it.
Or are they just losing money for fun and buying Billions of dollars of developers for fun?
Some would say Sony can't afford NOT to be "giving away" their games for $10. (in order to stay competitive in the market price wise) long term.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Right now with PS+ I have a collection of games included. Does that go away with the new tiers?

 

[UnNamed]

So basically, you have the same tier with Gamepass, but at 5$ more, slightly less games and no hardware emulation for some games, right?

 

[wvnative]

I know that there are licensing issues, but Sony should go the extra mile here. Much better for the owner of the IP to cash in some easy money than making no money.

Sony going the extra mile wouldn't solve a lot of the issues sadly.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Agreed. Not even sure what the point of the middle tier is. I guess you'll be someone who likes paying subscriptions for games - but not enough to commit a little more $ and get twice as many...

EDIT: I guess the top tier is the only one that includes game streaming so... I guess there's that.

I can tell you what the middle tier does for someone like myself: gives me a means of demoing previous releases I might've missed at launch, see if I like them enough to buy, then go pick them up on a discount physically. Maybe download a few of them, but otherwise just go get them on disc after trying them out streamed through.

I would technically be interested in the highest tier, but it kind of sucks PS1 & PS2 games are gated to only that tier. At least hoping they add trophy support for those games down the line; if retro games can get achievements/trophies through emulators then it should be more than possible for Sony and other companies to do so too.

So basically, you have the same tier with Gamepass, but at 5$ more, slightly less games and no hardware emulation for some games, right?

More games (400 from Extra tier plus 340 from Premium), no local emulation for PS3 games (still not quite understanding this, PS5 should have more than enough juice to locally emulate PS3 games).

 

[00_Zer0]

I'm confused about the PS1,PS2, and PSP games. It says dowloadable and streamable options. Is there a separate option to buy these games individually without a paywall service and run it straight off the PS5 via emulation. I do not want to buy into a service just to get older classic games. I hope they sell them individually similar to how MS does their BC games.

 

[THE DUCK]

BOOM! And just like that double the subscribers of the Game Pass. Your move, Microsoft.

Errr, what? All PS plus subscribers stay the same, how exactly is it doubling the subs of gamepass just like that?

Plus essential = Xbox Live Gold
Plus Extra and Plus Premium = Weak no day one game Gamepass (aka PSNOW enhanced with demos/older games) = Well ok it doesn't actually even equal Gamepass at any tier

 

[Ezekiel_]

Right now with PS+ I have a collection of games included. Does that go away with the new tiers?

Past monthly PS+ games and games included in the PS+ Collection for PS5 are 'bought' through your subscription, so as long as you are subscribed to it, you can access them.

Everything will carry over

 

[wvnative]

I'm confused about the PS1,PS2, and PSP games. It says dowloadable and streamable options. Is there a separate option to buy these games individually without a paywall service and run it straight off the PS5 via emulation. I do not want to buy into a service just to get older classic games. I hope they sell them individually similar to how MS does their BC games.

We don't know yet.

 

[jshackles]

I can tell you what the middle tier does for someone like myself: gives me a means of demoing previous releases I might've missed at launch, see if I like them enough to buy, then go pick them up on a discount physically. Maybe download a few of them, but otherwise just go get them on disc after trying them out streamed through.

I would technically be interested in the highest tier, but it kind of sucks PS1 & PS2 games are gated to only that tier. At least hoping they add trophy support for those games down the line; if retro games can get achievements/trophies through emulators then it should be more than possible for Sony and other companies to do so too.

The middle tier doesn't include streaming though, only digital downloads...

 

[R6Rider]

Well ok it doesn't actually even equal Gamepass at any tier

The highest tier has almost double the total games as GamePass, but no Day 1 releases. It's also $60 cheaper for a whole year.

EDIT: Seems I ruffled the feathers of a usual suspect by stating facts.
EDIT2: Damn. 2 of them now.

 

[AV]

Precisely. Microsoft makes $40 billion in profits every year so they can afford to take losses on gamepass and their xbox division. Sony makes only a fraction of that, and most of it from its Playstation division. They cant afford to be giving away their $70 games for $10.

Do you think they make $40b in profit every year because they have bad business practices that some guy on the internet knows are unsustainable?

No, they're just well aware that they can't take the same approach Sony does and so invested in a service that will take a (very) long time to pay off, but will eventually. It'll sure as shit be sustainable when there's over 100m GP subscribers across Xbox, PC, phone, tablet and more.

 

[Keihart]

I'm confused about the PS1,PS2, and PSP games. It says dowloadable and streamable options. Is there a separate option to buy these games individually without a paywall service and run it straight off the PS5 via emulation. I do not want to buy into a service just to get older classic games. I hope they sell them individually similar to how MS does their BC games.

Not right now, but personally i think is the most interesting part of the announcement. They are basically saying that all(or some) of the PS classics are already compatible with PS4 and PS5, i hope they do the right thing and restore legacy purchases of this games or at least make them all available for purchase outside of the subscription

I think they won't, sounds like a good hook for the subscription.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The middle tier doesn't include streaming though, only digital downloads...

FUK!!

Oh man, kinda ruins my entire plan with that tier then

Do you think they make $40b in profit every year because they have bad business practices that some guy on the internet knows are unsustainable?

No, they're just well aware that they can't take the same approach Sony does and so invested in a service that will take a (very) long time to pay off, but will eventually. It'll sure as shit be sustainable when there's over 100m GP subscribers across Xbox, PC, phone, tablet and more.

Okay but how long will it take for them to reach 100 million GP subscribers, more-or-less concurrently? It has taken 5 years to reach 25 million, with very little competition from alternative services. At that pace it will take 20 years if level of competition from alternative services remains the same...but that won't be the case. Not only alternative services, but just alternative avenues for gaming in general (including rival consoles, games, storefronts etc.) will continue to increase.

That will probably slow down the rate Microsoft can reach 100 million GP subs, possibly greatly so. Are Microsoft really going to wait that long to break 100 million, or will they reach those gamers through other means, like utilizing the reach of their acquisitions to get gamers on mobile (King), PC (Blizzard, WoW), and other consoles (Activision, COD/Crash/Spyro/Tony Hawk/Guitar Hero etc.)?

The latter seems more likely for me, and that isn't really dependent on big GamePass growth let alone big Xbox console sales. But I guess we'll see.

 

[lughnasadh123]

I'm not sure why people were thinking they'd get day one first party titles when they're selling well at a bumped up price. You don't light your stacks of cash on fire. Why would Sony?

The rest is as expected, which for me is good with the mid-tier option.

 

[Tiamat2san]

Wait and see.
I need the full catalog before judging.

 

[SportsFan581]

They would rather resell the games to you than let you use the discs.

I doubt the PS5 has a laser capable of CD playback, that would make supporting PS1 disks impossible and block some PS2 titles. Could easily do DVD based PS2 though.

 

[Astral Dog]

Its a smart approach, of course they want to sell whatever they can at $70

 

[Topher]

So basically, you have the same tier with Gamepass, but at 5$ more, slightly less games and no hardware emulation for some games, right?

What tiers are you comparing? Which one is $5 more?

 

[jshackles]

FUK!!

Oh man, kinda ruins my entire plan with that tier then

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I guess it's a way for Sony to expand the downloadable games portion of PS Now into markets where streaming isn't available.

To be fair, Microsoft does this with Game Pass also, since streaming is only available in the Ultimate tier also.

 

[Astral Dog]

I can't believe people were expecting first party games at launch. Most of those games sell like crazy, why on Earth would Sony go down that route when there's no reason for it and would probably end up being a lot less profitable for them?

Gamers just want the cheapest option they don't care about profits or investment, Sony does

 

[ahtlas7]

Well I’m

out

 

[Majmun]

I have both Plus and Now. I wonder if this automatically turns into Premium.

 

[Withnail]

I know that there are licensing issues, but Sony should go the extra mile here. Much better for the owner of the IP to cash in some easy money than making no money.

They actually invested quite a lot of time and energy over several years into getting PS1 classics onto the PS3 store, not sure how many they ended up with but it was a lot. Unfortunately the ones they couldn't licence then are not going to be any easier to licence now. The problem is that in some cases the companies or individuals that own copyright and/or should get royalties from new sales are either no longer around or are not able to negotiate new agreements. People talking about "leaving money on the table" don't really understand the issues.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Precisely. Microsoft makes $40 billion in profits every year so they can afford to take losses on gamepass and their xbox division. Sony makes only a fraction of that, and most of it from its Playstation division. They cant afford to be giving away their $70 games for $10.

According to Phil Spencer, Microsoft isn't losing money on Gamepass. Subscriber money is all you need to develop 70 dollar games. Would likely work for Sony too, but Jimbo still believes in retail money.

 

[CosmicComet]

I have both Plus and Now. I wonder if this automatically turns into Premium.

Yes it does

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Games Media for the foreseeable future: GamePass is better than PlayStations version.

Jim Ryan and PlayStation leadership: Our tentpole, must have, must play games are better than their GamePass.

The strategies couldn't be more clear at this point and (dumb) media will continue pitting GamePass against PS+.

 

[SportsFan581]

I'm trying to reconcile the disappointment some are expressing here. What was it that folks thought they were getting with this? Why does this suck? It isn't amazing news, no, but it isn't bad news either. It is a service restructure which doesn't change anything for those who choose not to change.

I assume users with PS+ and PSNow were expecting Sony to sweeten the pot. You used to be able to get that combo for $120 a year, now you can get that combo for $120 a year.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I guess it's a way for Sony to expand the downloadable games portion of PS Now into markets where streaming isn't available.

To be fair, Microsoft does this with Game Pass also, since streaming is only available in the Ultimate tier also.

Guess it's fair enough from that POV, tho even just having streaming of PS4 games on the Extra tier would've been good enough IMO.

Will have to think about the base and Premium tier as viable options, for myself anyway.

 

[Swift_Star]

Errr, what? All PS plus subscribers stay the same, how exactly is it doubling the subs of gamepass just like that?

Plus essential = Xbox Live Gold
Plus Extra and Plus Premium = Weak no day one game Gamepass (aka PSNOW enhanced with demos/older games) = Well ok it doesn't actually even equal Gamepass at any tier

Sadly for you, that’s not how this will work. And the vast majority of users will sub to the second tier. It is what it is.

 

[THE DUCK]

The highest tier has almost double the total games as GamePass, but no Day 1 releases. It's also $60 cheaper for a whole year.

As long as it doesn't have day 1 releases, the value just isn't there in the same way.
Perhaps it will be worth it to some people, but its not likely to take off the same way.

 

[Mephisto40]

I assume users with PS+ and PSNow were expecting Sony to sweeten the pot. You used to be able to get that combo for $120 a year, now you can get that combo for $120 a year.

You're getting a lot more for your money, i'm guessing thats how the pot is being sweetened

 

[THE DUCK]

Sadly for you, that’s not how this will work. And the vast majority of users will sub to the second tier. It is what it is.

Sadly for me? I don't care.
And most will sub to second tier based on what evidence? Even in this very thread there are tons of people saying no upgrade for them.

 

[Swift_Star]

Sadly for me? I don't care.
And most will sub to second tier based on what evidence? Even in this very thread there are tons of people saying no upgrade for them.

Your post history says otherwise.

 

[Goalus]

I hope this is an option, and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be.

You can buy and download individual OGXB and 360 games on the Xbox store, so no reason why Sony shouldn't have the option to purchase legacy PS games. Fingers crossed.

If that was going to happen, today's announcement wouldn't be too bad actually.