This is actually my most fundamental criticism of the game's structure. It is condescendingly obvious that the people you are murdering are people too, and to then spend a dozen hours backstopping that point is an error that absolutely shatters the momentum of the game...for nothing. It's CW level storytelling that can't even get out of it's own way (the implication of Abby's plotline is, of course, that she, Owen (and to some extent, Mel) have been made into better people through their revenge, for instance).
It's a narrative mess, and requires the characters to jump between binary revenge/no revenge states seemingly at random.
Nothing in the plot of TLOU2 makes any sense, the constant contradictions, the characters acting out of character, the boring token characters...
Cuckmann, like Rian Johnson, simply has put the subverting of expectations as the most important part of the narrative. So just like The Last Jedi, the narrative has no substance and it’s void of anything resembling a good story with charismatic characters. You just have your token SJW approved characters, like Holdo or Abby, Dina, Lev or Nu Ellie (which is a totally different character than the original Ellie).
Damnit my long incoherent rant was a waste. You said it perfectly.Bottom line: If you force something into your narrative and as a result the charachters, setting and story suffer you already fucked up.
You still let story and charachters flow naturally, not bend shit to your will.
He doesn't even know who Abby was or why she was acting the way she did.
That's like, deep n shit. Part of the point man.
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This.
Sorry for not answering you, it's just i have answered this so many times already.What other options did they have?
Getting killed with a gold club for a cheap revenge plot with no substance by a character that has no real development or exposition isnt exactly getting his punishment. He doesn't even know who Abby was or why she was acting the way she did.
What a compelling argument."no substance" "no development" dude, seriously whatever.
Don't forget false marketing.I thinks it's about execution.
Does a game need to be fun? Well kind of, I guess.
Does a movie need to be entertaining? Well kind of, I guess.
I'd compare TLOU2 to a Movie like 'Martyrs' - 2008.
Is Martyrs entertaining? No, at least not in a conventional sense. It is a brutal, disturbing revenge story that is genuinely horrifying to watch and will make you feel sick to your stomach.
But it is executed perfectly. It is an outstanding movie. That is where you find the 'entertainment'.
Does TLOU" execute well? It seems like it hasn't? But that is up to each individual to decide for themselves.
NOTE: SJW themes do not help. They make people automatically suspicious of the content that is being produced and make it difficult to give the creator 'the benefit of the doubt' that what they are producing is in good faith.
What a compelling argument.![]()
Yours wasn't so why should mine be? You're using flagrantly false claims to prop up the original claim I disagreed with, you're asking me to dive ever deeper into dealing with bad faith arguments and I'm not interested.
Plenty of things to argue there. I called out the part of your argument that i disagreed with and gave context to my argument that I believe is true. Not a single that that is flagrant. Sorry my opinion isn't yours.
Exactly. All the trailers made it seem like the game is about joel and ellie. Even had scenes which were changed from joel to other character in final game like this:Don't forget false marketing.
You can have not like her character development or not like the substantive elements of the plot but saying those qualities don't exist isn't an opinion, it's simply factually untrue.
Its not factually untrue. Development of a character is not defined by time and effort. Its subjective. You can spend 10 hours of time on a character and in this case its around 6 hours of game play depending on the player and in that time I found nothing of substance to explain her actions to why she killed Joel other than "He deserved it." (because Joel killed her father) Thats not development of a character and gave me zero substance to her as a person.
Fuckin critics comparing TLOU2 to Schindler's list, and Neil coming to their defense when people took a huge dump all over it.
I think he believes himself the next Steven Spielberg.
Wait, you needed more justification for killing Joel than Joel killing her father? Am I reading this right? The game didn't even have to show her and her father together bonding, the concept of avenging a loved one is so damn universal, that the game went to any lengths is admirable.
Which is why its so boring and unearned. I have seen that story told many times and with much better depth and character development. The game forces me to play as this new character for hours on end and I am supposed to somehow feel for her at the end because she saved a few scars after murdering thousands of people, being a home wrecker, and killed a character I knew because of "revenge."
Joel was simply doing what he thought was right and saved Ellie's life. The doctor in question didn't give Ellie a choice or Joel. It had to be done and Joel reacted. By your argument and previously saying people idolized joel as a hero and elevated him is taking away the wrong message from TLOU, then Abby killing Joel for the simple art of revenge means I shouldn't side with her at all.
Yeah, this is kinda just boring me dude. The idea was never "Joel did mean things, so I no like him". It was because of Joel's actions he's a flawed and nuanced character that can be loved, empathized with and sympathized with but we realize he's not perfect or an icon. The game is getting you to see the pointlessness of revenge by showing you the good qualities of the people that are targets of that revenge. Chosing a side is the problem.
No way...CohhCarnage initially defended the game early on, but by the time he finished the game, he has numerous problems with the story. Every streamer I've seen has lukewarm to very negative feedback.
If you're gonna call an argument boring then why even reply? Just because someone had a different opinion than you doesnt make your opinion fact.
But whatever. You bore me.
What if... Abby killed Joel. Than you play the rest of the game as Ellie seeking revenge. Remove all the boring parts. Rework some of Abby's setpieces to Ellie. Redesign Abby so she doesn't look stupid. Make the game 10 hours shorter. Keep lgbt pandering to a minimum. And only in the end Ellie finds out why Abby killed Joel. But now it's too late to go back. She already left a trail of bodies to get to Abby. Then either kill Abby or not. Revenge is bad. The end.
Games should strive to be good games instead of trying to be pretentious movies.
Here are his full thoughts if you want to hear his full opinion.No way...
What?
CohhCarnage didn't like it?
I'm actually shocked, Cohh literally is the nicest guy that i have seen in streaming, he loves 99% of his games, i was sure he was going to give this a 10/10.
Steven Spielberg hasn't made a good movie since the '80s
Imagine saying this while defending this edgy crap story.
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Just Look at the shitty movies though. LOOK AT EM.
He sounds charming.This is Lev's actor
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Imagine saying this while defending this edgy crap story.
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Just Look at the shitty movies though. LOOK AT EM.
You mean like TLOU II reviews?Right. Thought-provoking post, indeed.
Is this appeal to authority, argumentum ad populum... both? Stellar arguments.
You mean like TLOU II reviews?
That would be appeal to authority, not sure I did that? You can always quote my post where I told people the game is good because the critics said so, have fun looking.