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[Who]

I mean yeah, hard numbers and statistics tell a different story, but I still believe that there's room for a "hardcore"/traditional handheld device to flourish in the west.

What it would need:

• 
  Traditional control inputs with no compromises (i.e. 4 shoulder buttons and clickable sticks)
  
  Immediate compatibility with an existing platform that has an extensive library of traditional games (i.e. Steam, Windows, PSN etc.)
  
  Cross save/cross buy with said existing platform.
  
  A guarantee that most, if not all, hot-ticket upcoming AAA games will be playable on it.
  
  A "lightning in bottle" marketing campaign. I think a key reason why handhelds aren't as big in the west as they are in Japan is because of how they are perceived. As Americans, we of course cant think for ourselves, so we need celebrities and corporations to make handhelds look cool first. (I.e. Rappers, sports stars, playing it in commercials, market placement in movies and TV shows.)

What it absolutely doesn't need:

• 
  A new and needlessly expensive gimmick (i.e.haptic feedback, donut shaped screen )
  
  Cameras. At all. Whatsoever.
  
  Expensive proprietary SD cards

I'm not saying it would be easy, but I do still think it's possible.

Unless a miracle happens with Nintendo and third-parties, I don't think the NX handheld will be able to pull it off (which is sad because that would be the only thing feasibly holding it back imo).

Obviously the Vita and Nvidia Shield tried going after this market with less than stellar results, but they both also had some serious shortcomings with their hardware.

Perhaps, in a few years, Sony could release a handheld PS4 that is 100% compatible/scalable with all existing PS4 titles.. Though of course, even if it was technologically feasible, would be very unlikely due to how poorly the Vita performed.

I actually think Microsoft has a pretty decent chance of making an appealing handheld that could essentially run Windows 10 and have access to the massive PC/Xbox/Steam library.

Steam? Eh well... Yeah idk. MAYBE. It would definitely be Linux/SteamOS based and therefore have a pretty sizable library from the start but... Idk... They might not have the brand power to really pull it off.

Well this is GAF, so there's no doubt I got pretty much everything wrong in the OT , but that still doesn't mean we can't discuss the possibilities of such a device. What say you, friends?

 

[georly]

Obviously the Vita and Nvidia Shield tried going after this market with less than stellar results, but they both also had some serious shortcomings with their hardware.

PSP, Vita, and Shield, I think, all prove there is no such market. Or at least not big enough. People who want traditional stuff seem happy gaming on their TV using a console.

What hardware changes do you propose that would magically make people in this untapped market finally go out and purchase a 'traditional' handheld?

People want to play handheld games on handhelds, not worse console games on a worse console.

Yup. I don't think people value portability for 'traditional' console games as a feature worth sinking another $150-250 into.

 

[Grexeno]

People want to play handheld games on handhelds, not worse console games on a worse console.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I doubt people want this. What you are basically saying is you want a portable PS4 or Xbox One. Those kind of games and that experience. But that experience is made for at home on your tv, not on the go.

 

[bigkrev]

You missed the #1 most important part... price. You cannot make a handheld that is ergonomic, small, has 4 shoulder buttons, AND powerful enough to run AAA games at a price that makes any amount of sense.

 

[Strangelove77]

Yeah no. Vita tried this approach and failed.
I doubt adding two more shoulder buttons and removing the camera is going to do anything.

And what you're describing would be expensive as hell.

 

[Tailzo]

I've used me surface pro 2 as my "handheld civ V" machine for a couple of years.

I've looked at the shield, but am I wrong assuming that is better as a streaming machine than using it's own hardware for running games?

 

[JStein0222]

People want to play handheld games on handhelds, not worse console games on a worse console.

This. I swear mobile hardware getting stronger is the bane of mobile gaming. Back in the GBA days the gap between handheld and console was so big that devs had to make games for the handheld rather than appropriating console games to it. If there's a day when Nintendo makes exclusively handheld games (console/handheld hybrid) that machine will surge big time.

 

[Who]

PSP, Vita, and Shield, I think, all prove there is no such market. Or at least not big enough. People who want traditional stuff seem happy gaming on their TV using a console.

My point against that is that people don't know what they want. Idk to me, the idea of being able to play all the same games but off of the TV, on the toilet, in bed, on the couch while the wife is watching TV etc. is still something that can appeal to the traditional western gamer if done right.

 

[UmbraeCruxis]

Kind of agree with the thread here. I really, really love my vita, but its sales seem to speak for itself at times. In not entirely sure what would make that kind of thing valuable to the random joe.

 

[Zera_Bloodwinter]

Vita hardware/tech with Nintendo marketing/publishing. If only......

 

[mcbites]

Neo Geo Pocket Color 2, plz

 

[Strangelove77]

My point against that is that people don't know what they want. Idk to me, the idea of being able to play all the same games but off of the TV, on the toilet, in bed, on the couch while the wife is watching TV etc. is still something that can appeal to the traditional western gamer if done right.

It's called "Remote Play" and it works really well.
People didn't care for it.

 

[Ushojax]

There is a market for a kid friendly gaming device like the Game Boy, there always will be.

There is no market for a "serious" gaming handheld like the Vita as has been shown a thousand times.

 

[inner-G]

Idk.

Most people that want 'core' games are willing to buy a console or PC and often enjoy a big screen experience.

People who are looking for handheld games are typically satiated by the offerings on the phones/tablets they already own. That is the real problem.

 

[SatoAilDarko]

My point against that is that people don't know what they want. Idk to me, the idea of being able to play all the same games but off of the TV, on the toilet, in bed, on the couch while the wife is watching TV etc. is still something that can appeal to the traditional western gamer if done right.

So just Vita Remote Play or Wii U Off-TV play?

 

[Rivitur]

Did you jsut call haptic feedback a gimmick!?

Smachz is all I need if it can deliver on its promises.

 

[drangleic tourism]

I doubt we'll ever see Sony take a crack st handhelds again. Honestly, it's a really expensive way to go but gaming laptops(or at least with a recent GPU) are the way to go I think.

 

[brandonh83]

You missed the #1 most important part... price. You cannot make a handheld that is ergonomic, small, has 4 shoulder buttons, AND powerful enough to run AAA games at a price that makes any amount of sense.

The Vita memory card pricing kept me away from the longest time. It wasn't even the price of the console or games.

 

[impact]

People want to play handheld games on handhelds, not worse console games on a worse console.

If games like Monster Hunter and Fire Emblem are gonna be stuck in the handheld ghetto, we best be able to at least play them on a TV (hideously upscaled) and on a real, comfortable control scheme.

I would have bought into the 3DS ecosystem if there was a way to play it on a not 3DS, ala Super Gameboy.

 

[redcrayon]

How are you getting a portable to run the same games as a Ps4 with a small form factor? It's just not possible, portables need to balance battery life as well as power, screen, processor, inputs and ergonomics, that's the battle that any developer of portables has been struggling with for the last 25+ years.

 

[Who]

The Vita memory card pricing kept me away from the longest time. It wasn't even the price of the console or games.

Same actually. I've been very close to buying one as I love handheld gaming, but I'm all digital and don't want to deal with outrageously priced memory cards.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Of course there is. The passionate and desperate fanbase that is Vita enthusiasts is proof of that. Small console sales, big software sales, low brand penetration, high brand enthusiasm.

But it's a niche market now, which probably means there's "no market".

A proper successor to the Vita, with all the buttons, from Sony or Nintendo or otherwise, would be a luxury we will probably never see.

This is why I have decided to die. Good bye, earth.

[*lays on the ground*]

 

[Guevara]

The move to 3D is right when the handheld market in the U.S. began to die.

Coincidence?! I think not!

 

[Peltz]

OP, you're not totally crazy, but this market is never really going to be what it was last gen (with the PSP and DS).

It's just not there unfortunately.

 

[Funyarinpa]

Of course there is. The passionate and desperate fanbase that is Vita enthusiasts is proof of that. Small console sales, big software sales, low brand penetration, high brand enthusiasm.

But it's a niche market now, which probably means there's "no market".

A proper successor to the Vita, with all the buttons, from Sony or Nintendo or otherwise, would be a luxury we will probably never see.

This is why I have decided to die. Good bye, earth.

[*lays on the ground*]

metalgearsolidsalute.gif

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I mean yeah, hard numbers and statistics tell a different story, but I still believe that there's room for a "hardcore"/traditional handheld device to flourish in the west.

What it would need:

• 
  Traditional control inputs with no compromises (i.e. 4 shoulder buttons and clickable sticks)
  
  Immediate compatibility with an existing platform that has an extensive library of traditional games (i.e. Steam, Windows, PSN etc.)
  
  Cross save/cross buy with said existing platform.
  
  A guarantee that most, if not all, hot-ticket upcoming AAA games will be playable on it.

Why would I want to play my hot new AAA games on some small screen when I can play them on a bigger screen? Even if they put some magic in this thing and it's not just a streaming plattform I would have no use for it.

I want the exact opposite. I DON'T want "AAA" titles, I want titles I can play on a bus without missing much. Games I can play without any music if I have to and still have a good experience.
I don't want to play Witcher 3 or Dark Souls on a train, possibly muted to save battery life. Give me Link Between Worlds or Mario instead.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Neo Geo Pocket Color 2, plz

Maybe KOF14 looks the way it does for scalability. Handheld release to NGPC2 is a lock!

 

[capitalCORN]

I don't know if you notice people on downtime away from home, but mobile/tablet activities (not even just games!) have a deathgrip on the populace.

 

[Substandard]

I think there might be a market for something that works on the go and then "docks" into your TV at home. That was the NX rumor for a while, although I don't know if that's the way they are going and the rumored lack of buttons makes it seem bad to me. I'd strongly consider something that had a decent control setup and was semi-portable.

The Vita and 3DS both suffer from crappy controller form factors in my mind. I play more vita games on my PSTV with a PS4 controller than I ever did on the console itself, but I'm weird.

I don't really think there is much of a market for a dedicated handheld gaming device in the US at this point. I think the mobile market has killed it.

 

[Canucked]

To be honest I think the biggest handheld market gap is in mobile Phone gaming. I really like some of the mobile marvel games but what I would prefer is a game that I could purchase to opt out of all the f2p garbage that really bogs down those games. I hate the clunky interfaces and all the monetary types and timers.

I still play vita and DS games most of the time because they are better experiences for me, but I would gladly buy those games on my phone instead.

 

[L Thammy]

I think that if it needs to have lightning in a bottle to succeed, it can generally be assumed that it won't.

Anyhow, I do think that a market will remain for handhelds, but I don't think there's any way that it can compete directly with mobile. I think the key is that people buying gaming handhelds are more interested in having serious gaming experiences on the go than most, because they can probably already get time-wasters on their phone if that's all they need. Future handhelds need to recognize that and play to that audience. Not by super duper niche stuff that a handful of people will buy, but by things like Zelda or Monster Hunter.

 

[DownGrader]

You are spot on about no cameras. We are way past the stage to be amused by digital camera (Nintendo DSi), and AR didn't catch on even on smartphones.

Although Nintendo 3DS's pathetic front camera gave us awesome eye-tracking super-stable stereoscopy tech on New Nintendo 3DS.

 

[CountAntonius]

Mobile gaming scratches the itch enough for me to not want to bother with anything else on the go.

 

[Th3BranMan92]

I believe that the introduction of the iPhone in 2006 was the beginning of the end of the handheld console market in the USA. Now that most Americans have smartphones with processors rivaling PS3 / X360 levels of computation, there is no need for an additional device in your pocket.

I also believe that being as time constrained as we are in the USA, with long working hours, etc. - There is less time to whip out a Vita or 3DS and just play for 30 - 45 minutes on the go. Instead we play 2048 or the latest Flappy Bird clone on the toilet for 5 minutes.

I own a Vita and a New Nintendo 3DS, and I unfortunately do not use either as much as I'd like to.

 

[Leafhopper]

People say handhelds are dead but, then main series Pokémon and Fire Emblem numbers come out and folks are surprised.

I don't know. I think sometimes people overestimate the sales on x platform.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Mobile gaming scratches the itch enough for me to not want to bother with anything else on the go.

Same here, combined with not really wanting/needing/having many chances to game on the go anyway. On flights etc. I'd usually rather just read on my Kindle.

I do have a New 3DS and Vita though, but they mostly have gathered dust lately. But I doubt I'll buy another portable. I just prefer gaming on the big screen, and have a mancave where I can game whenever (i.e. I don't have to compete for TV time).

I think most gamers in the west are in the same/similar boat where they prefer gaming on the couch and big screen, and are fine killing time on their phones when out and about--be it with games or just dicking around online, Facebook etc.


I do think Nintendo still has a pretty sizeable handheld base though with their diehards and franchises like Pokemon. There's just not really room for a more purely adult focused (i.e. console like experiences) handheld as the Vita failure showed.

 

[Pizza]

People want to play handheld games on handhelds, not worse console games on a worse console.

This is the reason I no longer play animal crossing and I didn't mourne the loss of Megaman Legends 3 tbh

 

[Leafhopper]

This is the reason I no longer play animal crossing and I didn't mourne the loss of Megaman Legends 3 tbh

Wasn't that made for the 3DS?

 

[Boombloxer]

Yes, OP is crazy. 1 $40 game or 100 free games on a multitude of tablets and hand me down devices for kids wipes out most of that market.

 

[Complicated]

I would love the NX to be a "mobile" device that unifies all their development resources into one platform. I would never use a handheld, but I'd love to have a capable console with a built-in display that I can take with me on trips. If they went with a laptop-like form factor they could focus on battery life, display quality, and graphical horsepower instead of trying to fit it in people's pockets like it's the 90's. Just let me plug a controller into it rather than relying entirely on controls built into the hardware frame, and give it an HDMI port so you can plug it in to the TV when at home.

I think it's really unlikely for Nintendo to go for such a tech-focused solution for their next console for a number of reasons, but it would definitely get me on board over their gimmicky toy-like approach to game consoles.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Yes you are crazy for thinking this

 

[Funyarinpa]

Why would I want to play my hot new AAA games on some small screen when I can play them on a bigger screen?

I want the exact opposite. I DON'T want "AAA" titles, I want titles I can play on a bus without missing much. Games I can play without any music if I have to and still have a good experience.
I don't want to play Witcher 3 or Dark Souls on a train, possibly muted to save battery life. Give me Link Between Worlds or Mario instead.

Everyone says this sort of shit and then people wonder why mobile games are overwhelmingly shallow and forgettable time wasters.

It saddens me that so many people view handhelds as an inherently inferior or unimportant experience. A bigger screen is often a beneficial thing, but for me the comfort of playing the games while lying in bed, or on long road trips, is something I vastly prefer. And yet so many people want handhelds to be time waster machines, even though a smaller screen can still be incredibly immersive, or can play complex games.

As someone who views gameplay put to better use when it is used as a vessel to deliver a story rather than just used to spend time, I hate seeing people clamor for shallow experiences on handhelds. I don't think there are enough people who agree, but I absolutely do want console-style games on handhelds. I prefer the sensation of curling up in my bed and looking at a screen in my very hands to sitting in a couch, controller in hand, looking at an oh so important big screen.

Edit: on the "MUH BEEG SKREEEN" argument- handhelds' screens are far closer to your face when playing than computer screens or TVs, so to a certain extent the difference is covered by being able to put smaller (relative to the screen size) text and graphics on screen.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Yes, OP is crazy. 1 $40 game or 100 free games on a multitude of tablets and hand me down devices for kids wipes out most of that market.

But those 100 free games are nowhere near the same kinds of games I play on my handhelds.

Nor are the games I play on my Vita and 3DS anything like the games I play on my phone.

 

[Sterok]

The most important thing a system needs is a steady flow of big appealing games. It can't have only 3 tentpole titles and a bunch of niche stuff a year. The 3DS fell off because it has not had that the last few years. Fix that, and a 3DS/PSP level of success can be found.

Easier said than done of course. The issue with AAA games on the go is well documented. Mobile games are tailored for mobile. Maybe if Nintendo doubles their output or some other company gambles big in the space.

 

[Who]

I prefer the sensation of curling up in my bed and looking at a screen in my very hands to sitting in a couch, controller in hand, looking at an oh so important big screen.

Dude, same. Like vastly prefer. Though I think that probably has something to do with the unstable/hectic/nomadic nature of my life for the past 3-4 years. I don't need to hook up a box to a tv and set a bunch of shit up, I just gotta open up my 3DS and boom, im gaming.

I don't want to go back though. That's how I want gaming in my life to be. Quick, spontaneous, and accessible. I hardly ever am able/willing to spend more than 45 min/hour dedicated to a session so it fits perfectly with my lifestyle.

With consoles, I have to be sure nobody is using the TV (hell, that I even have feasible access to a TV), and on top of that, dealing with long updates and installations etc.

Handheld > Consoles alllllll day every day

 

[redcrayon]

I use portables every day, as the father of a young baby and also someone who commutes for two hours on trains a day, they are the way I fit the games I want to play into my life. Monster hunter, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Ys and Etrian Odyssey on instant sleep/resume are my jam, not the games on my mobile phone, when I'd rather save its battery.

Thing is, I'm in a tiny niche of adults to whom portables fit their lifestyle very well. My friends that don't commute or don't have kids play in the living room or the office on a console/PC. My friends that don't already have an affection for existing portable-focused games and sticks/buttons are happy with touch-screen games on tablets.

The market for portables is only going to get smaller, and the only thing keeping them alive next gen will be Nintendo's exclusive games on them.

 

[Bolivar687]

I think handhelds can still do well in their own right with a solid price and compelling software. Nintendo's next will likely sell less than the 3DS but may nonetheless stand on its own as a significant platform.

I've said this before but I really hope Sony's next console has a portable accessory that can crossplay indies and select downloadable titles. I really enjoy the niche the Vita has built and would hate to see it go away.

 

[18-Volt]

There is a market for handhelds in west and Fire Emblem and Digimon Story pretty much prove this. But nothing will ever change, the situation that handhelds in right right now will be the same for years to come.

Why? Because they are inferior platforms tech wise, and most of western studios require hardware freedom, won't bother with handheld development. Plus, many of them see handhelds as toys instead of mature platforms like PS4. they are totally wrong though, majority of handheld owners are adults, most of them looking for Nintendo or niche gaming experiences like Monster Hunter or SMT.

Handheld market will never die, but days of AAA western games appearing on them are long gone. Nothing of value is lost though, looking at the direction of AAA gaming is taking, they'd better be without them.

Yes, OP is crazy. 1 $40 game or 100 free games on a multitude of tablets and hand me down devices for kids wipes out most of that market.

It's been a while since handhelds became only a nostalgia stop for adult gamers/main platform for JRPG fans and otakus. Kids have been uninterested in them since the release of Nintendo DS.

 

[dragonflys545]

People say handhelds are dead but, then main series Pokémon and Fire Emblem numbers come out and folks are surprised.

I don't know. I think sometimes people overestimate the sales on x platform.

Sure the games are selling well... But at the same time it's only attracting and surprising those who already own the device.

It's not really getting anyone else interested in getting the handheld.