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[PSqueak]

The question is about the double standard. Why is calling somebody a faggot only acceptable if a different tongue is used?

Different languages have different tiers of profanity.

Example, in mexican slang there are 2 words that are actual equivalents for faggot: "Joto" and "Puto".

Joto is considered rude and moms might slap their kids for saying it, but it's not enough of a deal as to be censored on tv.

Puto would absolutely never fly on tv or videogames unless it was an R rated show or movie, it still would not fly in videogames.

Maricon doesn't come close to the same tier of profanity as faggot.

 

[More_Badass]

The question is about the double standard. Why is calling somebody a faggot only acceptable if a different tongue is used?


What AAA games are calling players faggots?

Well, most open world games typically don't have NPCs actively insult and bother the player. Mafia 3 and this are modern exceptions, and maybe the beginning of a trend

Shouldn't the question be why didn't open worlds have NPCs insult and act like assholes to the player before?

 

[Frodo]

So nigger is acceptable to you in the proper racial context but a slur for gay people is not? I think the contextual use of a slur against gay people is correct here. People are still comfortable using slurs against gay people in a nonchalant manner and I think they're trying to convey that.

You think. So far I haven't seen anything to suggest there is a proper context so the usage of the word would be justified.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

That NPC must be a Trump supporter. Clearly Watch Dogs 2 is aiming for realism and you're offended.

Welcome to the real world. Now we've come full circle.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Well, most open world games typically don't have NPCs actively insult and bother the player. Mafia 3 and this are modern exceptions, and maybe the beginning of a trend

Shouldn't the question be why didn't open worlds have NPCs insult and act like assholes to the player before?

I've not played in a while but didn't GTA V peds give you shit for bumping into them etc?

 

[notaskwid]

The question is about the double standard. Why is calling somebody a faggot only acceptable if a different tongue is used?


What AAA games are calling players faggots?


Fag is used in a variety of ways as well... -_-

I don't know where you are getting the double standard from, maricón doesn't have the exact same meaning as faggot nor the same baggage that faggot has.

Would people consider something like this:

https://youtu.be/m7BgOYPNTlA

Unacceptable?

 

[More_Badass]

You think. So far I haven't seen anything to suggest there is a proper context so the usage of the word would be justified.

What was the player wearing at the time? Don't some games have NPCs react based on different attire and cars and whatnot?

 

[ZeroX03]

For the love of christ, I'm not even saying that it "shouldn't" be in the game. I've just never encountered something like that being said in a game before.

Some cursory googling shows that maricon was used in GTA San Andreas in the pedestrian dialogue, alongside other words with similar inferences.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Well, most open world games typically don't have NPCs actively insult and bother the player. Mafia 3 and this are modern exceptions, and maybe the beginning of a trend

Shouldn't the question be why didn't open worlds have NPCs insult and act like assholes to the player before?

That's not true at all unless you're only counting the ones not set in the modern day. All of the "crime" open world games, Saints Row, GTA, True Crimes/Sleeping Dogs, have NPCs insulting players all the time. Try bumping into an NPC in any of those games

 

[Acerac]

Different languages have different tiers of profanity.

Example, in mexican slang there are 2 words that are actual equivalents for faggot: "Joto" and "Puto".

Joto is considered rude and moms might slap their kids for saying it, but it's not enough of a deal as to be censored on tv.

Puto would absolutely never fly on tv or videogames unless it was an R rated show or movie, it still would not fly in videogames.

Maricon doesn't come close to the same tier of profanity as faggot.

I'd reference another poster who lived in the area and said they found it more offensive than faggot but they edited their post. Half the people see it one way, half see it another. Let's call it down the middle and say it's closer to "fag" than "faggot", ok? People using the latter tend to be doing so with more malice, I find.

Do AAA games commonly call player characters a fag?

 

[Enzom21]

You think. So far I haven't seen anything to suggest there is a proper context so the usage of the word would be justified.

So if that's what they were trying to convey, would it be acceptable to you like nigger is?

 

[Interfectum]

Didn't Saints Row have NPCs throwing racial slurs out? I might be remembering wrong but that game seemed pretty raw.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

There is "nasty street talk" that can not offend an entire swath if people, especially if its use has no necessary hook to the plot to encourage its use.

Nasty street talk would generally include something that's offensive to a group. Gendered insults like "whore," racial insults like "nigger," sexuality insults like "fag." That's what makes it nasty.

I don't see a compelling reason that insults need to have a plot hook to exist.

What AAA games are calling players faggots?

The post you quoted was quoting me and I was specifically addressing this idea. I don't think "other games don't do it" (untrue anyways) is a particularly convincing argument.

Well, most open world games typically don't have NPCs actively insult and bother the player. Mafia 3 and this are modern exceptions, and maybe the beginning of a trend

Shouldn't the question be why didn't open worlds have NPCs insult and act like assholes to the player before?

This seems correct to me. I'd guess the answer is the complexity and layering I mentioned and that it was just something most games didn't have the time or resources to budget for until now.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

So you're saying this is a homophobic slur? What language is that? What culture does this word come from?

I haven't played WD2, obviously. Do they say the F word in GTA V?

I don't remember hearing it in single player but you can hear it a lot online!

 

[More_Badass]

That's not true at all unless you're only counting the ones not set in the modern day. All of the "crime" open world games, Saints Row, GTA, True Crimes/Sleeping Dogs, have NPCs insulting players all the time. Try bumping into an NPC in any of those games

Yes, after you bump into them. Here, it sounds like jerk NPCs insulting the player without provocation. Which sadly seems pretty realistic

 

[StickSoldier]

It's good to experience what others have to go through so that you can get an understanding of how it feels. I wish more games showed the true nature of how the world in this manner.

 

[Robaperas]

It's actually used in other ways.

Yeah but none of them is used in a positive way, it's always derogatory.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Yes, after you bump into them. Here, it sounds like jerk NPCs insulting the player without provocation. Which sadly seems pretty realistic

The context in which is happens is slightly different, but by no means is it odd or out of place in those games. OP seems to have never played any of these games before if this is new

 

[Waylon Drums]

I don't remember hearing it in single player but you can hear it a lot online!

My first thought was actually "wow, the first time I've been called a faggot in a game that wasn't via voice chat"

 

[mantidor]

Different languages have different tiers of profanity.

Example, in mexican slang there are 2 words that are actual equivalents for faggot: "Joto" and "Puto".

Joto is considered rude and moms might slap their kids for saying it, but it's not enough of a deal as to be censored on tv.

Puto would absolutely never fly on tv or videogames unless it was an R rated show or movie, it still would not fly in videogames.

Maricon doesn't come close to the same tier of profanity as faggot.

Maricon can certainly be as offensive as faggot, it's all in the context. If it's yelled on the street to random passerby it's pretty equivalent to faggot I would say.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I remember NPCs saying Maricon in Vice City, my mom heard that and took my game away...

 

[More_Badass]

It's good to experience what others have to go through so that you can get an understanding of how it feels. I wish more games showed the true nature of how the world in this manner.

Seems like it's pretty effective, given how the poster reacted

 

[Carcetti]

Watch Dogs 2 came out recently and as I was playing it, I was called a "maricon" by a character on the street. That's essentially the same as calling someone a "faggot". I posted about it twice in the OT for the game and received 0 responses.

Doesn't this strike anyone else as odd?

It's an open world crime game so that sounds like an excellent opportunity to beat up the npc and then put a bullet in their head. Therapeutic violence, and all that.

 

[Acerac]

Well, most open world games typically don't have NPCs actively insult and bother the player. Mafia 3 and this are modern exceptions, and maybe the beginning of a trend

Shouldn't the question be why didn't open worlds have NPCs insult and act like assholes to the player before?

NPCs have acted like dicks to players for ages, the controversy is that many devs have purposely shied away from homophobic language directed towards the player until now. People don't understand why it is acceptable to use these slurs only if they are in a language that the majority of players won't understand.

Granted, I have heard some in this thread say it is more offensive than faggot and some say it is less offensive.

 

[Rushersauce]

Yeah but none of them is used in a positive way, it's always derogatory.

I never said it was used in a "positive way". I only said it was used in other ways.

 

[Kinyou]

Patch incoming.

Gaf has become too powerful!

 

[UnemployedVillain]

NPCs have acted like dicks to players for ages, the controversy is that many devs have purposely shied away from homophobic language directed towards the player until now. People don't understand why it is acceptable to use these slurs only if they are in a language that the majority of players won't understand.

Granted, I have heard some in this thread say it is more offensive than faggot and some say it is less offensive.

I don't think anyone has said that actually

 

[PSqueak]

I'd reference another poster who lived in the area and said they found it more offensive than faggot but they edited their post. Half the people see it one way, half see it another. Let's call it down the middle and say it's closer to "fag" than "faggot", ok? People using the latter tend to be doing so with more malice, I find.

Do AAA games commonly call player characters a fag?

Maricon can certainly be as offensive as faggot, it's all in the context. If it's yelled on the street to random passerby it's pretty equivalent to faggot I would say.

This is true, i guess we can't really pin it out since the word is used differently in many countries, in mantidor's example i definitely see it as people using it as a stand ind for faggot, but in my country people doing that would straight up go for "Puto" which is the unambiguous straight up equivalent and it's something i have, in fact, been yelled at irl.

I definitely do agree it's probably the way the devs used to get away with, in the very least as intent, calling the player a faggot.

 

[Acerac]

The post you quoted was quoting me and I was specifically addressing this idea. I don't think "other games don't do it" (untrue anyways) is a particularly convincing argument.

So if I understand the post you'd be ok with NPCs in games calling PCs faggots?

If so that's totally cool, I just hate the double standard.

I don't think anyone has said that actually

You've not paid close enough attention to the thread in that case.

 

[GamingOblivion]

Would you guys feel the same thing if the game was calling the player a hard ER N word?


I honestly don't think it is acceptable to use homophobic slurs any more. It's 2016, in case you guys haven't noticed.
The "trying to convey realism" excuse doesn't work either, for reasons that have been discussed to death in this forum.

Edit: in case I'm not clear enough, you don't need a slur that diminishes a group of people based sorely on their sexual orientation to offend the player. That are hundreds of other slurs that do not convey a homophobic message.

I get what you mean, but sometimes in media there are bad characters. Bad characters will say mean things.

You're right: this is 2016. That means the good guys and the heroes won't be using that la gauge like that used to do in the80s and 90s. But bad guys will always exist, and sometimes bad people will use awful language. As long g as it portrayed as something that is bad and awful, there isn't a problem.

 

[73V3N]

some GTA vice city NPCs did that too, and yes you are overreacting

 

[UnemployedVillain]

You've not paid close enough attention to the thread in that case.

No. Go through the thread again. It's ranged from as bad to not as bad. No one has said it's more offensive

 

[orthodoxy1095]

To the whole "games haven't done this," I'm fairly certain there was a pedestrian in San Andreas who might call you a "mariposa," "joto" and "maricon." I feel like Vice City had it too.

Maybe I'm misremembering though.

So if I understand the post you'd be ok with NPCs in games calling PCs faggots?

If so that's totally cool, I just hate the double standard.

Sure. Like I said, I don't really see a huge problem with creating a nasty, raw urban environment. Not every game needs to do it, but it could have a place.

 

[Acerac]

No. Go through the thread again. It's ranged from as bad to not as bad. No one has said it's more offensive

You have post history on that account?

Neat!

Some people have entered and quickly withdrawn from the conversation. I don't blame them, it's not a very comfortable subject for many.

I promise you. I'm not lying or mistaken.

Sure. Like I said, I don't really see a huge problem with creating a nasty, raw urban environment. Not every game needs to do it, but it could have a place.

Cool, we're on the same page then.

I just think it's a bitch move if a company is only willing to call players faggots if the player probably won't understand the insult.

 

[ZeroX03]

To the whole "games haven't done this," I'm fairly certain there was a pedestrian in San Andreas who might call you a "mariposa," "joto" and "maricon." I feel like Vice City had it too.

You're remembering correctly.

http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/Pedestrian_Dialogue_in_GTA_San_Andreas

 

[UnemployedVillain]

You have post history on that account?

Neat!

Some people have entered and quickly withdrawn from the conversation. I don't blame them, it's not a very comfortable subject for many.

I promise you. I'm not lying or mistaken.

Then quote one of the posts in here. I went page by page searching for the word "fag" and unless I missed one, I didn't see any post saying it was more offensive to say "maricon"

 

[Puppet Shadow]

What AAA games are calling players faggots?

GTA V

Jimmy says it while playing Righteous Slaughter.

If there was a rape button, I'd press that, unless you're a faggot and you like that, in which case I'd just rape your mom, instead.

 

[Goose_Se7en]

It's an open world game in an urban environment with an M rating.

You're definitely overreacting.

Yes he is. And "Maricon" does mean faggot in Spanish.

 

[pantsmith]

My first thought was actually "wow, the first time I've been called a faggot in a game that wasn't via voice chat"

IMO it offers an interesting opportunity to roleplay and empathize beyond the traditional white male power fantasy video games provide. Not having played Watch Dogs 2, the particular word tells me a lot about the person speaking it and their thoughts on the player.

Was it intentional? I seriously doubt it. But it got us talking.

Just like Mafia 3 was able to confront the player with what it feels like to be the intended target of an incredibly loaded slur, having someone call you "maricon" on the street is something that happens - in real life! - and reinforces the avatar's otherness in an unexpected way.

Do you suppose the player would be more or less likely to casually toss around the word after having it used against them while occupying their avatar's shoes?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

IMO it offers an interesting opportunity to roleplay and empathize beyond the traditional white male power fantasy video games provide. Not having played Watch Dogs 2, the particular word tells me a lot about the person speaking it and their thoughts on the player.

Was it intentional? I seriously doubt it. But it got us talking.

Just like Mafia 3 was able to confront the player with what it feels like to be the intended target of an incredibly loaded slur, having someone call you "maricon" on the street is something that happens - in real life! - and reinforces the avatar's otherness in an unexpected way.

Do you suppose someone would be more or less likely to casually toss around the word after having it used against them while occupying someone else's shoes?

I think it's a stretch to think anyone is taking any big moral lessons away from our M-rated open world destruction games. It's not like people get shot and think we shouldn't go to war ever again (BF1 is doing good work in that way).

 

[DOWN]

Nigger is said more times in Mafia 3 than any Tarantino film. Do you think that's uacceptable too? That's the kind of language white people used/use, should we prentend like they don't/didn't?
People are also assholes who still say homophobic slurs, should we pretend like they don't?

That's a new game and has a heavy racial commentary. So the slur thing just started in games last month essentially? Or? I'm not understanding if you are saying this is common or what

 

[Acerac]

Then quote one of the posts in here. I went page by change searching for the word "fag" and unless I missed one, I didn't see it

You not seeing a thing does not mean it didn't exist. I can't blame a person for wanting to give their piece but not be part of the conversation.

GTA V

Jimmy says it while playing Righteous Slaughter.

Thank you! I admitted I was out of the AAA scene, I wasn't asking for examples just to be an ass, I was genuinely curious.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

You not seeing a thing does not mean it didn't exist. I can't blame a person for wanting to give their piece but not be part of the conversation.

And yet you still can't quote a single one. Why are you being so defensive? Just quote a post if there is one. It's not that difficult

 

[RocknRola]

Whelp. One thing's for sure: this game is getting a lot more "publicity" than the previous one

 

[iPaul93]

It's an open world game in an urban environment with an M rating.

You're definitely overreacting.

This^.

 

[Acerac]

And yet you still can't quote a single one. Why are you being so defensive? Just quote a post if there is one. It's not that difficult

Let me... let me be more clear as you're obviously not getting it.

They edited their post to avoid being part of the conversation. I'd rather not quote them now given that, but I'm willing to respect their words.

...

Forget it, just think of me as a liar. I don't give a fuck.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Let me... let me be more clear as you're obviously not getting it.

They edited their post to avoid being part of the conversation. I'd rather not quote them now given that, but I'm willing to respect their words.

So why didn't you just say that? Instead of trying to make me out to be attacking you when I was calmly asking for evidence. Could have saved us this meaningless back and forth

 

[Acerac]

So why didn't you just say that? Instead of trying to make me out to be attacking you when I was calmly asking for evidence. Could have saved us this meaningless back and forth

Not my fault you have an inability to read between the lines. Seems to be a common trend in this thread, what with so many people thinking that the issue the OP had is being insulted by an NPC.

 

[pantsmith]

I think it's a stretch to think anyone is taking any big moral lessons away from our M-rated open world destruction games. It's not like people get shot and think we shouldn't go to war ever again (BF1 is doing good work in that way).

I'm not saying little Johnny is suddenly going to be a better person, but videogames offer a really neat chance to occupy someone else's experience and potentially build empathy.

This thread sort of agrees with the notion.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

It is a fictional character saying that to another fictional character. Not to you. It isn't 'racist' to create fictional racist characters, it is just narrative.