ChuckeRearmed
Member
Yeah. It was the time of Crysis benchmarks and 8800 Ultra.
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AMD RDNA 4 GPUs To Incorporate Brand New Ray Tracing Engine, Vastly Different Than RDNA 3
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
Kataploom
Gold Member
Uh, actually the problem with RT everyone has, including myself, is that it is too expensive for the results you get in comparison to rasterized lighting, most of great spots are limited to specific sections so why lose performance of the 80% of the game for that? If RT wasn't that expensive or even free, nobody would be saying we don't care about RT, it's just that it's not worth it the performance impact.I expect a huge turnaround on r/AMD that RT now matters, after saying for the last 3 gens it didn’t
Better late to the party than never
But I have a feeling Nvidia will turn RT on its head again, it’s already outdated to think you’ll brute force with the original RT pipelines, they’re balls deep into AI and their Neural cache radiance solution for RT could the beginning of a different RT block philosophy. Why even brute force your way with Monte Carlo or ReSTIR? AI knows what real light should look like. Anyway, just a guess, but NCR is probably their next step according to papers.
AMD having new RT hardware is great, nobody can deny that, whether it makes RT actually worth it for most players is another matter.
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winjer
Gold Member
Yes, nvidia was the first, but in this case, AMD did win. One of the few, in recent times.
Freesync is the standard on PCs and consoles. On monitors and TVs. even if some manufacturers rebranded it as Gsync Compatible.
You are correct, nvidia a is not Intel. Jensen Huang is not an incompetent fool like Krzanich.
So it'0s unlikely that AMD will overtake nvidia. Be it in the GPU space, or for AI.
The point is there are few games with relatively good implementation of RT independent of Nvidia on PC. Yeah, AMD could sponsor games to make sure RT runs decent on their GPUs.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I'm a "Pro" thinker.
Loxus
Member
In one of my previous posts I detailed some RDNA4 info from various sources.With that being said, so far these are the SE count of RDNA4.
Navi44 - 16WGP (2SE, 32CU, 64ROPs)
Navi48 - 32WGP (4SE, 64CU, 128ROPs)
So the WGP per SE is still the same as RDNA3.
8WGP or 16CU per SE.
PS5 having 4SE is more probable than 2SE.
2SE with that many CU seems to be inefficient as well.
For higher end RDNA4 going by Navi44/48, it appears to be still 8WGP or 16CU per SE.
And it seems each SED houses 2 Shader Engines.
Navi41
1SED = 2SE/16WGP(32CU)
6SED = 12SE/96WGP(192CU)
1AID = 2×64bit or (4×32bit GDDR PHY)
2AID = 4×64bit GDDR PHY = 256bit
Navi40
1SED = 2SE/16WGP(32CU)
9SED = 18SE/144WGP(288CU)
1AID = 2×64bit or (4×32bit GDDR PHY)
3AID = 6×64bit GDDR PHY = 384bit
I suggested a SED consist of 2SE/16WGP(32CU).
Some more info on RDNA4 info dropped, which suggests I maybe correct.
So Navi48 maybe 2 SED.
Navi44 = 1 SED = 2SE/16WGP(32CU)
Navi48 = 2 SED = 4SE/32WGP(64CU)
But with rumors and leaks, always take them with a gain of salt.
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winjer
Gold Member
This could be the reason why leaks where pointing to such small GPU dies.
AMD might be able to tile a bunch of them to make bigger SKUs.
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
Is there an equivalent shift like differences between x86 to Arm in GPUs? I’m assuming they are complete different but don’t actually know
TheRedRiders
Member
Bumping this old thread as wanted to share this. The dude from HardwareUnboxed was on MLiD's podcast today and mentioned that he's spoken to a few people who have been "testing" RDNA 4 and that they were disappointed by its performance, said that RDNA 4 hasn't panned out the way AMD wanted to similar with RDNA 3 and that the "chiplet" strategy hasn't worked out well for them.
Unknown Soldier
Member
LMAO no? They do really good benchmarks and reviews. Just ignore their opinion stuff
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
ap_puff
Member
That's pretty incorrect though? They provide evidence for all their content. What exactly puts them a tiny step above clickbait when they are one of the more thorough benchmarking channels on youtube?That's why they are a tiny step above click bait.
Haint
Member
Clickbait positing more of the AMD status quo of the past decade+? Wouldn't clickbait be hyping them as 5090 killers for $499?
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MisterXDTV
Member
RDNA 4 is monolithic so the chiplet strategy has nothing to do with it expect for the bigger chips that they won't release anyway
Bernardougf
Member
After the price of the pro and shitty sony gaas push Im waiting for the 5 series... I might jump off playstation for the first time since the ps2.
TheRedRiders
Member
The chiplet strategy was in reference to scalability, as AMD were struggling to scale up chiplet design to higher end SKU's, also according to MLiD, this is one of the reasons why AMD cancelled the RDNA 4 high end (pretty sure he leaked PCB design shots for that).
The fact that AMD are not even using chiplets on RDNA 4 is proof of this. It's probably why Nvidia haven't gone with such a design for their GPUs either.
BattleScar
Member
What chiplets is that?
ap_puff
Member
Multi-chip modules, basically the split up various parts of the gpu or cpu and fabricate them separately, then stitch them together using TSMC's advanced packaging technology to make them work together as if it were a single part.
The reason they do this is because silicon wafer production isnt perfect and even a single defect can ruin a die, so in order to get the maximum number of working chips they design them so parts can be disabled if defective, or in this case they split them into chiplets so the failed ones dont cost as much
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BattleScar
Member
I know, but how does that relate to RDNA4? What we know of their product stack is that they're not aiming high, which means its unlikely they're using chiplets, as that would fuck with margins too much.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Nvidia originally planned to use chiplets for Ada Lovelace but found it so unworkable that they stayed with monolithic. Blackwell will also be monolithic for consumer GPU's
GPU's are incredibly timing and latency dependent for realtime rendering of video games and chiplets introduce very complicated management of those things. This is fine when you're just running AI applications where no one cares if it takes 1 ms or 1 second, but you have exactly 16 ms between frames at 60 fps and if you can't consistently bring frame data to present in that window then you're not gonna make it as a GPU
I don't think GPU's will go to chiplets for a long time yet, because neither Nvidia nor AMD are going to be putting expensive NVLink or whatever the AMD version is on consumer GPU's
Buggy Loop
Member
Chiplet still makes sense for what they are doing, memory cache, controllers, etc.
I think they're just laying down the foundation and ironing out the problems. RDNA 4 probably ain't gonna be "it".
ap_puff
Member
I think the implication was originally there was a design with several of these chiplets and it was going to be a -90 class world beater and they could scale it up and down however much to suit the market. I think MLiD was at some point predicting 192 CUs (cbf to go back and find the video cause most of it is bullshit). But the chiplet strategy was a real thing and they had one of the AMD engineers give an interview about it around the time rdna3 launched.
*Edit* found it
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PSlayer
Member
Honestly i don't think it is even possible with current silicon technology.
Imo a 50% uplift is the maximum i would expect from a really good gen
SolidQ
Gold Member
N43/N42/N41/N40 was chiplets cards. That moving to RDNA5, they need time to work it, because it's not Data Center Mi300x, it's more complex
N44 still monolithic, N43 was reworked to N48 mono
N48 = 32 WGP
RX 7900XTX = 48WGP
N40 was 144 WGP
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PSlayer
Member
Yeah Moore law is dead himself said almost a year ago that RDNA4 was a bad gen and that AMD was cutting out the high end cards.
Bry0
Member
This is also my understanding. Amd is giving us what they could salvage, in a sense.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Might be that the ray tracing engine is either put to better use in PS5 Pro or is a bit beyond what based RDNA4… mmmh…
twilo99
Gold Member
"secret sauce"
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
*sigh* and the cycle begins anew.
ap_puff
Member
It has nothing to do with ps5 pro bruh, not everything is about sony
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It does because that's the hardware Sony is using for the Pro.
ap_puff
Member
But thats not the context of the clip. They're talking about rdna4 not having high end desktop chips because allegedly the MCM strategy is not scaling well into higher CU/chiplet count. That has nothing to do with RT performance or how well PS5 pro is using AMD hardware.
kevboard
Member
let's hope Battlemage will improve things
StereoVsn
Member
I have some doubts, but fingers crossed.
ap_puff
Member
Is it even announced to be a thing? Afaik the only 2nd gen intel gpus we've even heard about are the integrated graphics in laptops
kevboard
Member
all they need is a 5060 competitor that has drivers that don't shit the bed tbh.
their RT is great, their ML reconstruction is great... it really is the drivers that they need to get to a state where you don't have to be worried of every single game you might play, possibly not working.
kevboard
Member
no card has been announced, but the same is technically true for Nvidia's 5000 series too. all we got there is leaks.
them using them in APUs first might be them basically getting data to get drivers ready for their discrete GPU launch.
it's really hard to predict what Intel will do given that it's only their second generation.
SolidQ
Gold Member
There is big driver from AMD out - https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming...-2-5x-with-amd-software-adrenalin/ba-p/711458
AFMF2 + Geometric Downscaling for Video and other
AFMF2 + Geometric Downscaling for Video and other
Dorfdad
Gold Member
Who cares they already stated they were not going to do high end cards anymore so a mid tier card with half ass tracing isn’t worth discussing. Now if they want to play with Nvidia again that’s a different story but they publicly stated they were out of that game some I’m out of the AMD gpu scene
SolidQ
Gold Member
We something know about RDNA4 RT? even PS5 pro not out yet
where did you read about "Anymore"? Answer: its only for RDNA4
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ap_puff
Member
Normally I'd agree but with Intel really being short on cash and how badly Arc sold, I wouldn't bet on them committing to a discrete gpu launch. That's a lot of money down the drain if no one buys it again and nvidia can easily choke them out
sachos
Member
The video quality is really poor so it doesnt help but it looks super "dirty" in motion to me.
