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[CoreyFlawless]

First time on seeing this threads. But like, why is there like that, this one guy on here that’s like he Twitter/X bot fandom intel account poster

 

[winjer]

7900X ended up slightly faster than 5800X3D according to most places.

This time it could be around 8% slower (if other reviews line up with this first review).

This is a bad sign for the 9800X3D, if true. If the X3D only adds another 15% as it has usually added to gaming performance, we could be looking at something that might add less than 10% gaming performance over the 7800X3D.

It's not just 15%.
The 5800X3D added close to 25% over the 5800X. And the 7800X3D added close to 20% over the 7700X.

 

[Leonidas]

It's not just 15%.

It was closer to 15% than 20% in the Meta Review. 13 games isn't enough to get a good average.

Your graph doesn't bode well for 9700X either, if AMD is anywhere close to being correct about 9700X being only 12% faster than 5800X3D.

 

[winjer]

It was closer to 15% than 20% in the Meta Review. 13 games isn't enough to get a good average.

Your graph doesn't bode well for 9700X either, if AMD is anywhere close to being correct about 9700X being only 12% faster than 5800X3D.

Your meta review has several reviews manipulated with different memory for different CPUs.
That's why your data never matches with reality.

 

[Leonidas]

Your meta review has several reviews manipulated with different memory for different CPUs.
That's why your data never matches with reality.

If AMD's 9700X being only 12% faster matches reality it will have it trading blows with various Raptor Lake CPUs

The 5800X3D added close to 25% over the 5800X. And the 7800X3D added close to 20% over the 7700X.

So its adding less each generation, I won't be surprised if 9800X3D only adds 15% over standard Zen5.

 

[winjer]

If AMD's 9700X being only 12% faster matches reality it will have it trading blows with various Raptor Lake CPUs

Maybe yes. Maybe not. That why I have been telling you so many times that we need independent reviews.
There is also the issue with the new microcode that will reduce voltages. This will probably mean another reduction in performance for 13th and 14th gen.

So its adding less each generation, I won't be surprised if 9800X3D only adds 15% over standard Zen5.

Zen4 has a similar backend to Zen3, in terms of execution units. It's performance improvements came mostly from the frontend.
Because of that, cache hits are not as important in the 7800X3D, as they are in the 5800X3D.
Also consider that games are using more and more memory bandwidth. This also means that with DDR5, cache is not as important.
But Zen5 has a backend that is significantly bigger than Zen4. This will mean a bigger hit to caches and memory to keep those units feed.
So it might happen that the 9800X3D has a performance boost as big as the 5800X3D.
But whatever is the case, we'll know when the benchmarks come out.

 

[Leonidas]

Maybe yes. Maybe not. That why I have been telling you so many times that we need independent reviews.

And the first independent review points to 60% of you people possibly being very wrong with the prediction

 

[winjer]

And the first independent review points to 60% of you people likely being very wrong with the prediction

One random channel is not exactly a reliable source. We don't have any idea of how he conducted the test. What bios he has. Drivers. Etc.
I'll have to tell you once again, we need proper independent reviews.

And the other thing to consider is that it was just a prediction, at a time when we knew absolutely nothing about these CPUs. There were no leaks, no powerpoint slides, nothing.
So people were just throwing numbers at random.

 

[Leonidas]

And the other thing to consider is that it was just a prediction, at a time when we knew absolutely nothing about these CPUs. There were no leaks, no powerpoint slides, nothing.
So people were just throwing numbers at random.

That's the whole point of the prediction, and why I closed it immediately when AMD posted their cherry picked slides.

 

[winjer]

That's the whole point of the prediction, and why I closed it immediately when AMD posted their cherry picked slides.

Everyone does cherry picked slides. Welcome to the real world.
FFS, in the same week, Intel presented the slides for their Lion Cove core, where they used a bunch of synthetic benchmarks. And not one real world benchmark.
One of them made by Intel themselves. You can't get a more cherry picked benchmark than that.

 

[Leonidas]

Everyone does cherry picked slides. Welcome to the real world.

Where did I say they didn't? AMD is on another level though of cherry picking though.

Intel at least was honest when 5800X3D beat 12th Gen in some games in their slides. AMD slides makes fools believe Zen5 will dominate Raptor Lake.

 

[winjer]

Where did I say they didn't? AMD is on another level though of cherry picking though.

Intel at least was honest when 5800X3D beat 12th Gen in some games in their slides. AMD slides makes fools believe Zen5 will dominate Raptor Lake.

AMD doesn't use a benchmark they created by themselves. Neither does Nvidia. Only Intel does that.

At this point, we still don't know how they compare. Especially considering the new microcode with lower voltages and clocks.
The 14900 literally kills itself to gain benchmarks.

 

[Leonidas]

AMD doesn't use a benchmark they created by themselves. Neither does Nvidia. Only Intel does that.

AMD basically did, by using a configuration no one in the review community will use. You test CPU gaming performance by using the fastest GPU. 4090 should be used. When 5090 launches that will be used.

 

[winjer]

AMD basically did, by using a configuration no one in the review community will use. You test CPU gaming performance by using the fastest GPU. 4090 should be used. When 5090 launches that will be used.

The 7900XTX performs as well with Intel and AMD CPUs. And it's in a similar performance range as a 4080 in raster. Don't make silyl excuses.

Still, Intel using a benchmark made by themselves, is the absolute peak of cherry picking results.

 

[Leonidas]

The 7900XTX performs as well with Intel and AMD CPUs. And it's in a similar performance range as a 4080 in raster. Don't make silyl excuses.

You'll see this is not the case when 1 of the 6 games from AMD slides suddenly performs better on Intel...

 

[winjer]

You'll see this is not the case when 1 of the 6 games from AMD slides suddenly performs better on Intel...

But all companies pick the games and benchmarks that give an extra edge. Intel does it. AMD, does it. Nvidia does it.
And even Apple, ARM and Qualcom do it.
That is why I told you so many, many times that we need independent results. And I'll take the opportunity to remember you again.

 

[Leonidas]

But all companies pick the games and benchmarks that give an extra edge. Intel does it. AMD, does it. Nvidia does it.

You sure seem to like to continually defend AMD, even going as far as lying in order to do so, shameful.

 

[winjer]

You sure do go through a lot of to continually defend AMD, even going as far as lying in order to do so, shameful.

Of course you would say that anyone that does not go along with your theories is a liar.
You have become a recurring joke on this forum.

 

[Leonidas]

Of course you would say that anyone that does not go along with your theories is a liar.

Your statement of "but but AMD GPUs work the same on Intel as AMD" will be proven to be a lie.

 

[winjer]

Your statement of "but but AMD GPUs work the same on Intel as AMD" will be proven to be a lie.

You can try to prove that now.
You have been saying that for several months, without any evidence. Tough you have been called out on that, by a few people.
So once again, I ask you to prove that AMD GPUs perform worse on Intel CPUs than on AMD CPUs.

 

[Leonidas]

You can try to prove that now.

I've waited 54 days, I'll wait another 8 days for the reviews to show you what I've known all along.

 

[winjer]

I've waited 54 days, I'll wait another 8 days for the reviews to show you what I've known all along.

What can't you show right now? There are plenty of reviews with all sort of GPUs and CPUs.
If that is true, you would easily find evidence.
Or maybe, you are just full of shit. As usual.

 

[Leonidas]

What can't you show right now? There are plenty of reviews with all sort of GPUs and CPUs.

I can, but I've already waited 54 days, why would I show you now, when there is only 1 more week to go? You'll then know, what I've known 54 days ago (actually its something I've known since before even that).

Unlike you, I don't come in these threads making up stuff.

If that is true, you would easily find evidence.

I've had the evicence since the day Zen5 was revealed.

 

[winjer]

I can, but I've already waited 54 days, why would I show you now, when there is only 1 more week to go? You'll then know, what I've known 54 days ago (actually its something I've known since before even that).

Unlike you, I don't come in these threads making up stuff.

I've had the evicence since the day Zen5 was revealed.

If that was true, you would have shown it already.

 

[Zathalus]

You sure seem to like to continually defend AMD, even going as far as lying in order to do so, shameful.

The complete lack of self awareness must be deliberate.

 

[Leonidas]

If that was true, you would have shown it already.

Why would I tell you. You would just make more excuses for AMD. You'll find out when everyone else does. If you really think I'm lying ban bet me and I'll tell you what game it is. If I'm wrong I'll go away for months...

 

[winjer]

Why would I tell you. You would just make more excuses for AMD. You'll find out when everyone else does. If you really think I'm lying ban bet me and I'll tell you what game it is. If I'm wrong I'll go away for months...

If you had any real evidence, you would be immediately telling to the whole forum that we are wrong and you are right.

 

[Leonidas]

If you had any real evidence, you would be immediately telling to the whole forum that we are wrong and you are right.

I don't care about saying I'm right. All I did was look at data from a reliable source that proves that in some games AMD GPUs perform worse on Intel CPUs. Again, its not every game. Its some games, and in one of the games it could swing the result against Intel by 20%.

I'm actually shocked you don't know that. With all the unimportant CPU knowledge you seem to have, you don't know this very basic thing, which was already proven by a reliable source....

 

[Leonidas]

The data has been out there for over a year, wouldn't surprise me if AMD saw that data and thought they could include that game and make their CPU appear a lot better in slides than it is in reality.

If anyone ban bets me I'll tell you what game it is, and we can all watch in 8 days as a ~2-year old Intel CPU beats Zen5 in one of the games AMD claimed a win in. I couldn't possibly correctly guess which game out of 6 is faster on Intel, unless I actually had the data, could I?

No one here has the balls to ban bet me because they know I'm not lying.

 

[OverHeat]

DGrayson ^^^

 

[Leonidas]

DGrayson ^^^

Good to see someone else here still has balls, 3 months sound okay?

 

[OverHeat]

Good to see someone else here still has balls, 3 months sound okay?

Yes but you have to include the x3D variant because you are right standard zen 5 beside price…

 

[Leonidas]

Yes but you have to include the x3D variant

My ban bet is specifically pertains to this slide.

~2-year old Intel wins in one of these games, and I can tell you which one. X3D isn't part of the deal as we won't know any info on that any time soon.

 

[Zathalus]

I’m still betting on Zen5x3D>Arrow Lake>Zen 5 for pure gaming. Although for most gamers the performance difference will be academic, so price/performance and power consumption will be more important factors.

 

[Leonidas]

The complete lack of self awareness must be deliberate.

Please tell me where I lied to make a company look better...

 

[Zathalus]

Please tell me where I lied to make a company look better...

I’m referring to the section ‘You sure seem to like to continually defend AMD’. That’s rich coming from you. You’re basically the Intel/Nvidia defense force.

 

[Leonidas]

I’m referring to the section ‘You sure seem to like to continually defend AMD’. That’s rich coming from you. You’re basically the Intel/Nvidia defense force.

Oh, I thought you were accusing me of being a liar, like winjer

I fail to see where I am acting as a defense force. I never defeneded high power draw i9s. I never defended stability issues some people are having. I never defended Intel Arc GPUs, I never defended the pricing of RTX 4080. I fail to see where I'm acting as a defense force. I'm not sure where you're getting this unless you give some examples...

I post things that people might not be aware about. Yes I bought an i5 in 2022, I did so because it was the best perf/$ current gen CPU at the time, destroying Zen4 in some areas. And I probably posted a few things about the i5 being great, which most reviewers agreed with. I fail to see where I'm defending...

I didn't defend high power draw, I didn't defend stability issues, I didn't defend 4080 prices, I didn't defend Arc, I didn't defend 14th Gen 2% uplift, etc... wouldn't a defense force defend those things?

 

[Rossco EZ]

I’m referring to the section ‘You sure seem to like to continually defend AMD’. That’s rich coming from you. You’re basically the Intel/Nvidia defense force.

I'm surprised he doesn't have a tag by now

 

[marquimvfs]

I fail to see where I am acting as a defense force.

You're the most dissimulated person I know in the forum. Of course you would say that. You just happen to be smarter than the typical fanboy. You know how to war without being too much obvious, to disguise your text as being "impartial". It's always a joy to watch you criticizing AMD to defend Intel, of all companies. Only other poster that achieved similar results was VFXVeteran , but I guess he dedicated himself to defend Nvidia only.

I didn't defend high power draw, I didn't defend stability issues, I didn't defend 4080 prices, I didn't defend Arc, I didn't defend 14th Gen 2% uplift, etc...

No, you didn't defend those flaws, you just vigorously defended Intel and Nvidia DESPITE those flaws, and did that by attacking AMD. That's what fanboys do.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

You're the most dissimulated person I know in the forum. Of course you would say that. You just happen to be smarter than the typical fanboy. You know how to war without being too much obvious, to disguise your text as being "impartial". It's always a joy to watch you criticizing AMD to defend Intel, of all companies. Only other poster that achieved similar results was VFXVeteran , but I guess he dedicated himself to defend Nvidia only.


No, you didn't defend those flaws, you just vigorously defended Intel and Nvidia DESPITE those flaws, and did that by attacking AMD. That's what fanboys do.

At least there is good reason to defend Nvidia since they actually make good products even if overpriced. Intel, on the other hand, released ticking time bombs for their 13xxx and 14xxx CPU lineup and it took over 2 years for them to address the issue... by offering a "kick the can down the road" "solution".

 

[Leonidas]

You're the most dissimulated person I know in the forum. Of course you would say that. You just happen to be smarter than the typical fanboy.

I appreciate you acknowledging my intellect.

No, you didn't defend those flaws, you just vigorously defended Intel and Nvidia DESPITE those flaws, and did that by attacking AMD. That's what fanboys do.

I need examples of me defending. Real examples. Me saying things that 90% of reviewers agree with isn't me defending. I never attacked Zen5, only trying to point out a few things so that the people that listen to me aren't blindsided by lower than expected gaming performance when all the reviews come out. Not only did I not attack Zen5, but I might end up with a 9950X this Fall.

I wouldn't attack AMD if they didn't do bad things. Recently they seem to love overly misldeading benchmarks (way more egregious than Intel). I wish they would just do better and be more honest.

I don't hate AMD. I used Zen1-Zen3. I actually quite liked Zen1 despite its abysmal gaming performance because now we all have a lot of cores, and back then AMD didn't push all their CPUs close to the limit so my 1700 actually had a lot of OC headroom. I had a 3700x at one time, but got rid of it quickly because I hated the way it overclocked. I also chose a 5800X over 11th Gen, I easily could have gone either way with that one, but I chose 5800X because AMD reveresed their decision to end X470 support.

5800X was okay, but still had abysmal overclocking so I didn't love it. 13600K was a massive upgrade, and allowed me to actually get something useful out of overclocking.

As for the GPU side. I care about ray-tracing performance and good upscaling quality so I always choose Nvidia since 2018. What more is there to say? Though I would consider Radeon if they released a GPU that was as good as Nvidia in every area...

 

[marquimvfs]

At least there is good reason to defend Nvidia since they actually make good products even if overpriced. Intel, on the other hand, released ticking time bombs for their 13xxx and 14xxx CPU lineup and it took over 2 years for them to address the issue... by offering a "kick the can down the road" "solution".

Maybe Nvidia have good (very good, actually) offers right now, just with bad pricing. That doesn't mean thad AMD nowadays offers are bad, far from it.
The thing is that past isn't kind to any company, they all have a fair collection of failures and successes, even Nvidia. But enough derailing the thread.

 

[The Skull]

I never defended stability issues some people are having

Literally started a thread about it praising intel for "taking care of it's customers" after years of denying the issues they clearly knew about. That's some mental gymnastics to defend shitty practices.

 

[Leonidas]

Maybe Nvidia have good (very good, actually) offers right now, just with bad pricing. That doesn't mean thad AMD nowadays offers are bad, far from it.

And I never said Radeon is bad. I just would never use them today because I care about RT, PT and upscaling quality. I really would buy an AMD GPU if they matched Nvidia, in fact, before I bought an RTX 2070 in 2018, my prior GPU was a Vega 56...

Maybe they'll surprise me with RDNA4, who knows, RDNA4 RT is supposedly good, but they really need to improve their upscaling image quality...

Literally started a thread about it praising intel for "taking care of it's customers" after years of denying the issues they clearly knew about. That's some mental gymnastics to defend shitty practices.

I'm just glad Intel is doing the right thing now. What more do you want them to do? They're doing the right thing just like AMD did the right thing when some people's 3D V-cache CPU burned a hole through their MOBO.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

I'm just glad Intel is doing the right thing now. What more do you want them to do?

Not kick the can down the road.

 

[marquimvfs]

I need examples of me defending. Real examples.

Wow. It doesn't need to look much. One exaple is the answers you gave in this thread. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/why-amd’s-bad-benchmarks-are-bad-investigating-the-lie.1672141

Me saying things that 90% of reviewers agree with isn't me defending.

Of course, of course.

I never attacked Zen5, only trying to point out a few things so that the people that listen to me aren't blindsided by lower than expected gaming performance when all the reviews come out. Not only did I not attack Zen5, but I might end up with a 9950X this Fall.

Well, and by "not" attacking AMD, you manage to praise everything Intel says and launches. Like the "Good to see Intel come out with this statement, and taking care of its affected customers."

Recently they seem to love overly misldeading benchmarks (way more egregious than Intel).

Way more egregious than Intel? You gotta be kidding me.

I don't hate AMD. I used Zen1-Zen3. I actually quite liked Zen1 despite its abysmal gaming performance

You don't hate AMD, you just hate when they do better than Intel and you're forced to go with them, hahaha.
That's your equivalent of saying "I'm not racist i've a black friend".(obviously, I'm not calling you racist)

 

[Leonidas]

Not kick the can down the road.

And what would they have to do for that to happen, in you estimation?

Wow. It doesn't need to look much. One exaple is the answers you gave in this thread. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/why-amd’s-bad-benchmarks-are-bad-investigating-the-lie.1672141.

You'll have to point to actual posts, from a glance I'm seeing a lot of truth in what I've said, and for one answer we'll have to wait another 8 days to see 1 of the 6 games performing better on Intel...

you manage to praise everything Intel says and launches.

Arc? High power draw CPUs? 14th Gen? Please notify me when you find me praising these.

Way more egregious than Intel? You gotta be kidding me.

In terms of gaming benchmarks AMD is absolutely way more egregious than Intel. Imagine if Intel re-released a 10600K with 100 MHz higher clock and said it had the same gaming performance as Zen4 by using a low end GPU. That's only something I've seen AMD do (with their Zen3 refresh + low end GPU benchmarks).

You don't hate AMD, you just hate when they do better than Intel and you're forced to go with them

I used Zen1-Zen3 just to see what it was like, they were my secondary system in most of that time. I didn't need to go with them at all, but the entry point was too low for me to not try it, I even got a 1700 for free since I fixed some pins that some dude broke. There was never a generation where I was forced to go with AMD. But I would buy them again if they offer a CPU that meets my needs better than Intel. They failed to do that with Zen4.

 

[marquimvfs]

I even got a 1700 for free since I fixed some pins that some dude broke

That explains a lot.

 

[Leonidas]

That explains a lot.

Only thing that explains is that the AMD user who gave it away to me not only "broke" the thing, but also was unable to figure out how to bend several pins back into place.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Duel to the death.