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American Gods |OT| You Had Me At Bryan Fuller - Sundays on Starz
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
Coreda
Member
Yeah, it pops out a player on the existing page which can be moved around. It's called Youtube Link Title. Functions like this:
Cool interview with Fuller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea9BdPfy58Y
I loved it! I expected I would as a pretty big Fuller/Hannibal fan mind you, but it still feels great to have a new quality show to be properly excited about.
I haven't read the book yet, though I've owned it for years, and I just want to echo that I didn't find this hard to follow at all, I mean the main premise is straightforward as hell. Isn't that enough for now? Yes, there's plenty of unexplained stuff, but it's the first episode of the season. I really don't get why you wouldn't like some confusing elements early on! It makes the whole thing all the more intriguing. Not that I'm all that clear on how many elements exactly fellow non-book readers are confused about, Mr Wednesday
Anyway, I think I'll mostly avoid this thread because of the whole book thing, I won't be able to resist digging into these spoiler tags if I spend too much time in here. We'll see. I just hope the show does well enough! I don't want another not fully realized Fuller series... It's anecdotal stuff but some of the negative reactions I've been seeing have got me worried already and I don't want that this early on. >_>
I haven't read the book yet, though I've owned it for years, and I just want to echo that I didn't find this hard to follow at all, I mean the main premise is straightforward as hell. Isn't that enough for now? Yes, there's plenty of unexplained stuff, but it's the first episode of the season. I really don't get why you wouldn't like some confusing elements early on! It makes the whole thing all the more intriguing. Not that I'm all that clear on how many elements exactly fellow non-book readers are confused about, Mr Wednesday
being Odin is really obvious so I'd hope it's not things like that...
Anyway, I think I'll mostly avoid this thread because of the whole book thing, I won't be able to resist digging into these spoiler tags if I spend too much time in here. We'll see. I just hope the show does well enough! I don't want another not fully realized Fuller series... It's anecdotal stuff but some of the negative reactions I've been seeing have got me worried already and I don't want that this early on. >_>
Rodney McKay
Member
Thought it was a bit of a clunky first episode, but I loved Hannibal and it seems like an interesting concept so far, so I'm definitely sticking with it.
A bit too many characters being thrown in too fast for me to care much for any of them other than Shadow Moon. And the Bilquis scene was definitely weird as hell, but seemed completely separated from the rest of the episode.
A bit too many characters being thrown in too fast for me to care much for any of them other than Shadow Moon. And the Bilquis scene was definitely weird as hell, but seemed completely separated from the rest of the episode.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Just watched the pilot.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
ryutaro's mama
Member
Just finished...man, Shadow had a baaaaaaaaad fucking day.
Geez.
Geez.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I visited my folks, smoked a bunch of weed with them and then we sat down to watch this together. I've read the book, knew what was coming, knew it would be in the first episode, didn't tell anyone. No fucks given.
Get on my level, GAF.
Get on my level, GAF.
They loved the episode.
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
Watched it with my housemate last night and he was really into it
mainly confused but he liked it
Kinda wished they showed wednesday standing over the bodies at the end though, to establish him as a baws
mainly confused but he liked it
Kinda wished they showed wednesday standing over the bodies at the end though, to establish him as a baws
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Book:
Is it him who saved Shadow? I thought it wasn't
Matt_
World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
Not a clue havent read them I just assumed
though if your point is true ill go take a seat
Just watched the pilot.
This gif gives me Hannibal flashbacks.
House on the Rock won't show up until S2.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/american-gods-season-1-primer-998205
That's a pretty vague quote. He says they changed the finale, not necessarily that they cut it for next season or something. Unless I'm misreading it.
It's in season 2. You can google it and find out plenty of articles about them talking about pushing it back.
http://tvline.com/2017/04/19/american-gods-season-1-episode-order-cut-neil-gaiman/
Book:
It's not. Shadow was never assaulted by the Technical Boy's goons in the book, at least at this point. I'm not sure who saved him really.
It's a mystery at this point. Book spoilers & speculation:
One of Wednesday's charms is to free himself from any bond, another is to bring a hanged man down from the gallows (dead) and speak with them/hear their secrets. Although close, neither really fits. He has charms to keep people safe in battle, so could be one of those. I can't recall Wednesday or any other god using the force to snap ropes in the book. Could just be luck? Possibly Laura? Who knows what the show will do.
TheOctodad
Member
I'm pretty sure it's ...
Laura saving him. It's a good way to intro her and establish her character.
Got it, thanks. That's a shame, I was really looking forward to it. One hell of a season 2 opener tho.
Insane Metal
Member
I watched the pilot yesterday. And I'm still not sure what this is about... hmm
Mike Works
Member
I'm surprised this received such a positive response in this thread; there were numerous times I had to force myself to finish the episode.
First, the positives: always love me some Ian McShane, the main actor seems like he'll do a good job, the sex/worship scene was terrific, the computer God at the end was quite intriguing. There was some strong (and wonky) imagery, and some really nice shots. I actually appreciated certain shots in the airport, or the bar more than I did stuff like the evil trees and flaming bison.
And that's about all I got. I've never read the books, and my only exposure to this show was reading about the basic premise (old Gods vs American Gods... I think I read what each God represented, but I've forgotten about it by now).
My key issue with this pilot: I didn't buy for a second that this guy gave a shit that his wife just died. It utterly baffled me to the extent where I wondered if it was going to be a plot point. They establish their loving relationship with the prison phone call, and I understand that he may have been in shock when he first got the news from the warden, but he never looked sad or distraught or upset or anything during his entire journey home. He had a fun little conversation with Mr. Wednesday on the plane, and then he chatted some more in the bar and eventually was goaded into a fight with the leprechaun guy, and then he's at the funeral and he seems quite pensive, and I'm wondering where the scene depicting him caring that his wife just died got cut.
This is an outlier to a somewhat grander issue: grounding. These absolutely insane things are happening with this guy, and I don't see for a second him questioning any of it. He just accepts everything as reality. Perhaps he's already familiar with the more fantastical side of the world? Perhaps this will come out in later episodes? Perhaps. But man, as a pilot, it forwent that legwork to squeeze in an extra few minutes of blood bags spewing across the scene.
I think I really would've been into this pilot when I was a teenager.
I'll still give it a shot with a few more episodes, because it's Brian Fuller and Neil Gaiman. But yeah, I just felt this huge disconnect when it came to the grounding and subsequent world-building.
First, the positives: always love me some Ian McShane, the main actor seems like he'll do a good job, the sex/worship scene was terrific, the computer God at the end was quite intriguing. There was some strong (and wonky) imagery, and some really nice shots. I actually appreciated certain shots in the airport, or the bar more than I did stuff like the evil trees and flaming bison.
And that's about all I got. I've never read the books, and my only exposure to this show was reading about the basic premise (old Gods vs American Gods... I think I read what each God represented, but I've forgotten about it by now).
My key issue with this pilot: I didn't buy for a second that this guy gave a shit that his wife just died. It utterly baffled me to the extent where I wondered if it was going to be a plot point. They establish their loving relationship with the prison phone call, and I understand that he may have been in shock when he first got the news from the warden, but he never looked sad or distraught or upset or anything during his entire journey home. He had a fun little conversation with Mr. Wednesday on the plane, and then he chatted some more in the bar and eventually was goaded into a fight with the leprechaun guy, and then he's at the funeral and he seems quite pensive, and I'm wondering where the scene depicting him caring that his wife just died got cut.
This is an outlier to a somewhat grander issue: grounding. These absolutely insane things are happening with this guy, and I don't see for a second him questioning any of it. He just accepts everything as reality. Perhaps he's already familiar with the more fantastical side of the world? Perhaps this will come out in later episodes? Perhaps. But man, as a pilot, it forwent that legwork to squeeze in an extra few minutes of blood bags spewing across the scene.
I think I really would've been into this pilot when I was a teenager.
I'll still give it a shot with a few more episodes, because it's Brian Fuller and Neil Gaiman. But yeah, I just felt this huge disconnect when it came to the grounding and subsequent world-building.
So did you just miss the scene where he drives to the park as soon as he gets off the plane and screams at the top of his lungs off a cliff? Dude is distraught as fuck. He's just a stoic character for the most part.
What kind of annoyed me in the book was the fact he never really seemed to have any real emotion towards anything. That was done on purpose, of course, but yeah.
More_Badass
Member
What absolutely insane things happened besides the ending scene?
Human Resources
Member
going from the book, just the amount of props and set dec alone for the House on the Rock would inflate the budget astronomically, starz is probably waiting to see if the audience/critics are there before dropping the cash on that location
These are both very important traits to Shadow - that's all very intentional. Shadow is kind of cold, kind of lifeless, kind of purposeless. Gaiman has actually said he was an awful protagonist to write for because it made exposition really hard. How do you explain things when your main character never asks questions or expresses his emotions?
I can't say how well the show will adapt his overall character arc and such but the flatness serves a purpose.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
ivy probly ragin tbh B3
Mike Works
Member
Yeah, there's a 10 second scene half an hour into the show where he walks up to a cliff and the music lyrics say, "Baby you're torturing me" in an extremely overt way of trying to tell us that he's experiencing conflict and turmoil, and then he has a quasi-shawshank moment where he opens his arms and yells and... that's it. Not a single moment before nor after that I can think of when it comes to him experiencing pain over his wife's death (with the aforementioned exception of being goaded into a fight by the Irish guy). If that "scene" is the best (or all) this show can pull off in an entire hour, I would suggest my comment about the legwork still more than stands.
Off the top of my head: he has a vision that the ceiling of his jail cell crumbles open and shows his wife in bed (though this later leads to a dream sequence in the forest); he meets a crazy man on the airplane who happens to know seemingly everything about Shadow Moon (his time in prison, his wife dying, his best friend not being able to give him a job etc)... and he never questions how this guy knows these things; after his plane makes an unexpected landing and he gets a rental car and drives to a random bar this SAME GUY shows up and reveals that not only does he know more about Shadow Moon's life but some other Irish guy also magically knows these things, and what's more he can literally perform magic with coins; and throughout ALL of this I think the only time he questions ANYTHING is once when he asks the Irish dude how he did a single coin trick. Then some magical fireflies lead him to a glowing VR headset box in the middle of the road after all of the lights turn off and he pokes it with a stick and barely reacts when it transforms. THEN he gets transported to a fucking virtual reality limousine and the only explanation I can think for his reaction in there is that he assume it's a dream or... something. Thankfully the episode ends before we can see how he reacts to a group of faceless men trying to hang him before exploding in blood.
The show did not do a good job of establishing this (normal-ish?) human being being exposed to a fantastical world. And again, maybe that's an intentional aim of the show. But my impression as a non-book reader was that it took me out of the journey.
My suggestion would've been to show an early scene with him (likely still in jail, perhaps in the airport) interacting with a normal human being (perhaps his jail friend, perhaps his wife on the phone, etc) and displaying that lifelessness and purposelessness. Establish those key character traits early on, so that when unbelievable shit hits the fan (or hell, his wife dies!), we're grounded within that character's seemingly nonchalant reactions.
Mike Works
Member
I could buy a sense of apathy to suddenly being thrust in a world of warring Gods after your beloved wife has just been killed (while having an affair no less), but the problem is he doesn't know they are Gods. He doesn't know how this guy with no real name knows all of this information about him. He doesn't know how Mr. Wednesday randomly finds him again in this bar, nor does he know how this Irish guy knows this personal information and can do magic. He doesn't know how a transforming VR box has teleported him into a limousine with a guy who can conjure faceless goons that can physically hurt him.
All of these things he doesn't know, and yet he almost never questions a single thing (coin trick notwithstanding!).
I've personally gone through the experience of losing a loved one on multiple occasions, and while different people react differently to it, I assume if any of this shit happened to me I'd probably at least ask some questions.
More_Badass
Member
Pretty sure the first is supposed to be either a dream or a visualization of his thoughts
Everything with Wednesday and at the bar would just be rationalized as a con or grift. Any rational person will just handwave it off as coincidence or a con, rather than think it's anything fantastical. All Shadow knows that those two are skilled conmen who know eachother.
We never see his reaction to the VR headset and Technical boy, besides curiosity when he notices it, a moment of panic when it launches at his face, and then more terror and shock at the end
Everything in the VR realm was very Matrix-like and dream-like, so I wouldn't really count his calm behavior there as what he is actually feeling, especially after we see it basically blasting the imagery into his head
Mike Works
Member
First off, no rational person would handwave off everything that happens with Mr. Wednesday as a coincidence.
And if he thinks they're conmen, does he ever voice that suggestion? He just goes along with everything. Accepts a job with the man who's conning him before he even returns home.
He does not act like a rational person - and not in a sense that he's acting irrationally because he's distraught over the death of his wife. More in a sense that his character motivations and grounding are inconsistent with reality, at least in terms of connecting the audience with the protagonist with empathy and rooting interest.
I feel like the people who aren't crazy about this show missed one really important thing, which is kind of funny considering this information was known well before the episode even aired --
that Bryan Fuller is actually the second coming and tbh we should be happy that he's even letting mortals take a glimpse at his grand designs? idk seems obvious to me
yes a lot of viewers missed this crucial point.
Overall, I enjoyed the first episode way more than I was expecting - even with the cast and Bryan Fuller being onboard, I had doubts about if they'd be able to pull it off. The only thing that didn't really land for me was Technical Boy - it was necessary to update him, and I like some of the influences they used to do so, but the end result seemed kind of...obnoxiously inauthentic, sort of; leaning more on the stock 'technology-themed villain' wheelhouse instead of the elements like the absurdly specialised vape which had more of a base in the kind of cultural connotations they seemed to be broadly aiming for. My issue isn't that every facet of his character didn't scream vapid 2017 internet personality, but rather that the design of the virtual space and some of his dialogue actively worked against the decision to focus on the former aspects; leading to an impression that the character's changes in portrayal were largely superficial.
If I was being snarky, I would ask if you had even watched the episode. He's in shock for most of the episode. The sound direction when he walks back to his cell is key in that he can't really hear or process anything. Then you have him generally being frustrated during the airline segment leading to him screaming at the park. Not to mention the bar fight served as an emotional release for him as up to that point he was internally dealing with everything and the fight with the Leprechaun allowed him to vent his anger. Hell, he has a huge rant to Laura at her grave.
Come on.
Call me YHWH
Member
This is definitely dealt with in the novel -- and is a major source of the character who is Shadow, to the point where I thought the scene with the technical boy was almost against who he was, since he eggs the kid in the show.
It's never outright addressed why, but it is addressed by several characters in the novel, and Gaiman mentioned how difficult it was to right someone who is as closed off as Shadow and still make him an enjoyable protagonist.
Technical Boy needs to drop more memes to be a true embodiment.
That's more
Media's
Instead of Lucille Ball we get Pepe.