dr_octagon
Banned
DeafTourette
did you ever watch Hotel Rwanda?
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An original film based on actual African history
- Thread starter DeafTourette
- Start date
- Social Event
DeafTourette
did you ever watch Hotel Rwanda?
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
I haven't seen it yet, but It's definitely getting panned for it's whitewashing and historical representation. It sounds like not only did they play a major role in the atlantic slave trade, they fought with the brits/euros that were trying to stop them from doing slavery
The History of the Kingdom of Dahomey
Situated in western Africa, the kingdom of Dahomey (or Abomey in its earliest years) was formed by a mixture of various local ethnic groups on the Abomey
www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Still haven't. I have been meaning to for years just because of Don Cheadle.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It's always good to see something for yourself and form your own opinion. When people TELL you about something, they're telling it to you through their own lens (political or otherwise) or ignorance (as in they didn't see it either)
dr_octagon
Banned
He's brilliant, I watched it a while ago. Highly recommended.
Personally I'm fine with the casting of that Blood Psalms show, but I'm someone who can enjoy something that feels authentic to itself.
Thirty7ven
Banned
I’m sold then, the movie does look dope.
Good to hear. Can't wait to watch it.
Never heard of showmax. Wonder if it'll be available on any services in my neck of the woods. Looks interesting.
I do, I care a lot. My problem with all that is that ironically, diversity everywhere all the time ends up being less diverse.
I want entertainment to take me to different worlds, show me different cultures and peoples.
But when all cultures look the same with the same racial diversity, it loses a lot of it's impact. When you can see that the people in different countries look very different, it adds both realism and believability to it all.
So yeah, white or asian or whatever people in this would be grating.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
My issue with some of the racial criticism for RoP is... Elves, men, dwarves, Harfoots/Hobbits, orcs... They're all different races. Like LEGIT races .. humans come in all colors so seeing melting pots in Numenor or the Southlands or Khazad-düm or Lindon just means they're Humans, Dwarves and Elves. They're not races in the way WE see it these days, i.e. skin color. Remember, just 150 years ago "races" were like Scottish, English, German, French... But they all had similar skin tone and facial features. That was a change via the Elites back then.
And can I say that I'm glad this thread isn't devolving like the Little Mermaid thread did? Because some of those comments... YIKES!
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Toons
Member
I just saw the film. I had very high expectations. I was not disappointed. I think I will go a second time.
Its not an indie Arthouse film. It is an epic, in the classical style. Warriors journey and all that. Viola Davis does what Viola Davis does.
They definitely take historical liberties but the film surprisingly had a very firm anti slavery message, including African on African slavery which it shows the evils of clearly. Think of this more as a tale whispered among descendants that has risen to legend. Like Robin Hood.
Its not an indie Arthouse film. It is an epic, in the classical style. Warriors journey and all that. Viola Davis does what Viola Davis does.
They definitely take historical liberties but the film surprisingly had a very firm anti slavery message, including African on African slavery which it shows the evils of clearly. Think of this more as a tale whispered among descendants that has risen to legend. Like Robin Hood.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
this movie is great
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
She really held her own! If you watch it, you'll be blown away!
Soodanim
Member
I don't have a horse in this race and I don't know too much about it, but I think the argument I've seen most seems fair: if it wasn't written in the source material, then respect that fact if you're going to continue using that source material. It's a general rule. If you are saying "X is canonically part of Y", then you have to adhere to Y's set up. Unless it's well explained, my guess is that someone comes out of it looking stupid and it's more than likely the show that tried to retcon.
Blood Psalms look good, I'd like to watch that. I hope it lands on one of the streaming services I have. Same with the film the thread is about, it sounds like something you don't see too often and a little bit more grey than the usual black and white stories. I like the grey.
GeekyDad
Member
Not sure if you kept up with the news stories at the time, but if not, research some of that first if you're interested, then watch the movie. You will be startled at just how accurate (a rarity) the film is.
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Not really sure what you're getting at here, but I'm gonna put it in spoiler tags cause I don't want to derail the thread.
"Sure they're different races, but they can still interbreed with each other, so I'd imagine they'd be beholden to the same rules of biology as humans. So melanin determines skin color, and amount of melanin is dependent on where you're from. And not just melanin of course, you mention various Europeans, but still to this day all those "races" as they used to be known, have different facial features. Not as visible today as it used to be, but a lot of the time it's very easy for a European to spot where another European is from. And most of the RoP criticism I see is not racism, and "why are there people of color in my entertainment". It's rather that it's just another token poc, inserted in a location where it makes little to no sense, and it's done only to achieve some level of diversity, and not with any thought whatsoever to the lore and world building. The show runners could have done this in a smart way by, as I suggested in the RoP thread, just make all the elves dark in order to differentiate them (this would piss a lot of people off of course, but it would have given them a solid way of being consistent), or just explain better that some people are from other places. But the showrunners instead chose the path of idiocy by doubling down on color blind casting and pretending that there are no scientific reasons for skin colors, by having Nori, a pale, white girl, have a white dad and a black mum and never once suggesting they're anything but her biological parents. It's just stupid, and it treats the audience as if they're stupid. People don't like being treated like they're stupid. Hell, the hobbits would've been a golden candidate for some solid world building in this regard. They could all be dark, easily explained by them being a wandering people. Or they could just show them interacting with different tribes of other ethnicities, and forming relationships and thus creating the multicultural culture we see in the show. But they don't do that, because the show runners don't appear to be very smart. They just do things because things are supposed to look a certain way now. But this is Middle-Earth, not now."
Why would this thread devolve like the Little Mermaid thread though? This isn't another European tale that gets "fixed" by americans by race swapping characters. This is what we, the people who criticise those trends have asked for for a long time; actual entertainment based on something that's not a bastardized version of our own culture and history. You have to wonder at some point if black people are okay with what's been happening. Always being served sloppy seconds, always just getting another "colorized" version of European lore. Is that all they're worth? Does Africa not have history of its own interesting enough for Hollywood to dive into? Especially in this day and age when all we get is reboot after reboot after bloody reboot. How about looking beyond Europe for just once?
I welcome this movie, and more like it. This is the kind of diversity that I want to see. Different stories from different continents made by people who do not look anything like me. Why would anyone in their right minds object to that?
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VN1X
Banned
Yeah about that.
So yeah this film is pure fantasy that not only distorts reality but does so with a preachy pandering to boot. Good job Hollywood!
crazy monkey
Banned
#/media/File%3ABeasts_of_No_Nation_poster.jpg)
Much better movie that deserves recognition
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badblue
Gold Member
Have you watched it or are you just parroting someone else opinion?
VN1X
Banned
Opinion?
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Yes, yes but Elves still have fair skin. The people of Numenor still have fair skin. The people from the Southlands are dark skinned. It makes no sense for all people from the same region to all have different skin colour.
Yeah about that.
So yeah this film is pure fantasy that not only distorts reality but does so with a preachy pandering to boot. Good job Hollywood!
Eh, can't say I'm too bothered. There ar eplenty of times when horrible European or American people have been portrayed in a more flattering light. No denying that telling the actual story would probably not be very acceptable in today's climate though, hehe.
badblue
Gold Member
"So yeah this film is pure fantasy that not only distorts reality but does so with a preachy pandering to boot." is an opinion.Opinion?
The article you linked doesn't really touch much on the "pure fantasy" and "preachy pandering". Did you watch the movie to determine those things?
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Ulysses 31
Member
Yeah about that.
So yeah this film is pure fantasy that not only distorts reality but does so with a preachy pandering to boot. Good job Hollywood!
Revisionist propaganda is too light to describe the liberties taken with the story.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
Why would I watch a film not only glorifying one of humanities most notorious contributors to the slave trade, but straight making shit up to paint them as victims? These female warriors got slaughtered by the French, because they wouldn't stop raiding French protectorates for people they could sell into slavery or mass human sacrifice rituals.
Let me know when the Schutzstaffel gets a fawning Pedowood film.
Let me know when the Schutzstaffel gets a fawning Pedowood film.
VN1X
Banned
What are you on about? Are you being deliberately dense or?
The events portrayed in this film are made up. In isolation that'd be one thing but surely you're not arguing this picture is somehow removed from today's pandering in entertainment? Half the films Hollywood puts out these days are filled to the brim with The Message(tm). Overt or not this is another one in a long line of flicks that fits that bill and also goes the 'extra mile' in completely distorting the past.
Look if you liked the film that's fine, honestly it is, but don't conflate your ego with it lol. Just accept it for what it is (fantasy) and move on.
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lukilladog
Member
These are the actual ones, although it was not entirely female as hollywood claims. Still power to them (Scratch that, these were people snatchers lmao)... imagine the cruelty, not as terrible as religious zealots since they were doing it for the profit, but still.
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badblue
Gold Member
I asked if you've seen the movie and you are (seemingly) ignoring that question... and you ask if I am being deliberately dense?
VN1X
Banned
Why would I want to watch a film that takes such liberties with actual events? Me having seen it or not was never the argument. I simply responded to the original post to highlight how ridiculous the statement "based on true events" is in the context of history.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
So....you are not aware of the drama?
badblue
Gold Member
I only wanted to know if you watched the movie because if you haven't you are just repeating what you've been told about the movie. I had a reason for the question but as you've been entirely unhelpful in supplying a simple yes/no over multiple messages, I'm no longer interested in this topic.
It was the only thing I asked you. A simple Yes/No after your "
" would have saved us both how ever long it's been to engage in this back and forth.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Did you enjoy The Greatest Showman? How about The Aviator? A Beautiful Mind? American Sniper? The Revenant? ELVIS?!
My point is, SO MANY of these movies are chock full of historical inaccuracies that your objections ring hollow if you've seen ANY of them, enjoyed them and never raised objections to them before.
crunchyBiscuits
Member
It's a South African streaming service
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
As somebody who has a passion for history and has studied the subject at degree level, historical accuracy is very important to me.
Historical accuracy isn't just important to me because of my love of history, but also because there are many people who don't enjoy history, but will enjoy a film based on historical events. If the film isn't historically accurate, it means that these people will take what they see portrayed in the film as gospel and that can be a problem.
Of course, it depends on the subject matter and the level of inaccuracies, but for me historical accuracy is very important and we should strive to tell true stories, even if the truth is difficult and doesn't hold up to modern social standards.
It's a South African streaming service
Ah, ok. Hopefully the show comes to europe then.
Yeah, I feel like you do, but at the same time I've of two minds on this. On one hand there's just so little stuff out there that isn't even centered on, or originates from Europe, or North-America. The rest of the world usually gets shafted, so when you're starved or something, it's easier to be lenient.
But I always wished they would've stayed historically correct. Truth is often much more interesting than the fiction people write anyways, and it's also very cool to learn something. "This shit really happened?"
Take Vikings, for example. Loved that show, but it's pure fiction. It takes some truth, some myth, and it just blends it together and plays ping pong with timelines and history.
lostinblue
Banned
Damn, who's gonna clean all that.here
Dahomey - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Annual Customs of Dahomey - Wikipedia
VN1X
Banned
Oh did they also glorify slavers and turn blatant baddies into good guys? There have been many films in the past that I've watched and later realized were mostly nonsense (ie: most WWII films) but at least they got the foundation right, most of the time.
So there's dramatizing events and then there's just plain rewriting it. Again, in isolation this would've been bad to say the least but perhaps I'd still give it a go. However in today's 'culture climate' this is another example in a long line of films that reeks of pandering and division. It might be the greatest thing since Apocalypse Now but I can't be fucked any more. It's all
I'm not "repeating" anything. There's an article that delved deeper into the history of the actual events and I merely pointed out that "based on true events" or whatever the fuck it says in the trailers and promo material is pure nonsense. Why would I need to watch the movie in order to point that out?I only wanted to know if you watched the movie because if you haven't you are just repeating what you've been told about the movie. I had a reason for the question but as you've been entirely unhelpful in supplying a simple yes/no over multiple messages, I'm no longer interested in this topic.
It was the only thing I asked you. A simple Yes/No after your "
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
The Greatest Showman glorified an abuser and rewrote a lot of what he did and who he was... As well as making up a lot things for dramatic purposesOh did they also glorify slavers and turn blatant baddies into good guys? There have been many films in the past that I've watched and later realized were mostly nonsense (ie: most WWII films) but at least they got the foundation right, most of the time.
So there's dramatizing events and then there's just plain rewriting it. Again, in isolation this would've been bad to say the least but perhaps I'd still give it a go. However in today's 'culture climate' this is another example in a long line of films that reeks of pandering and division. It might be the greatest thing since Apocalypse Now but I can't be fucked any more. It's all
I'm not "repeating" anything. There's an article that delved deeper into the history of the actual events and I merely pointed out that "based on true events" or whatever the fuck it says in the trailers and promo material is pure nonsense. Why would I need to watch the movie in order to point that out?
A Beautiful Mind had the lead character still married and a lot of other things wrong like his hallucinations... Changed for dramatic purposes to make the lead more likeable.
The Revenant, the guy didn't actually find and fight the man he was chasing played by Tom Hardy. He gave up looking for him. He also didn't have a child.
VN1X
Banned
Yes this is what I said.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Ok, so those movies made certain characters likeable... Especially the ones who were not good guys like PT Barnum.
The movies will change things for dramatic purposes... This is standard practice, almost.
While truth is often stranger than fiction, it's not always as engaging.
But if you can bother to watch certain things, dramatized and made up, that we don't have actual records of (like what happened on the ship in The Perfect Storm or the inner conflict between the women warriors and their king), then watch or don't watch. Hollywood will Hollywood and the movie will either be great or not. These aren't documentaries.
BigDeadFreak
Member
I hate to jump into someone else's argument but...
...I think it's perfectly reasonable to object to one example of artistic license and be ok with another. For example, I imagine many people who enjoyed this film would have serious objections to Song of the South or the original Birth of a Nation.
I haven't seen any of the films I mentioned though, so I can't give a personal opinion. I'm just going by the mood of the day.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
"actual african history"
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Stitch
Gold Member
AfricanKing
Banned
You know what I find interesting.. the same people that said the little mermaid can’t be black because of European mythology and complain that black people should have their own IPs are the same people that will cry historical inaccuracies in a Black IP
End of story .. they won’t ever be happy with seeing certain characters in Film or TV
Eh, not really. I think colorbending established characters and lore is lazy and boring. It's much more exciting to explore things from other cultures than those that originate in Europe.
I'm also gonna watch the woman king, been wanting to since I first hear about it and I'm not bothered by historical inaccuracies.
Generally I prefer it when history is respected an accurate, but I know how movies are made. Huge liberties are usually taken, can't expect this movie to suddenly be the thing that changes that.