An Overview Trailer for Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door has been released
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Honestly in the GameCube version there was a shortcut right on the main screen where you just hit either it was Left or Right on the D pad and it would instantly pull up the character wheel to quickly swap a partner. And since GameCube loaded things so quickly on those tiny discs, it happened in like 1-2 seconds. I think this just replaces that. Rather than being an actual new feature
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
The lack of confirmed new content such as New Game + or expanded Pit of Trials or new secret bosses is disappointing. But on the other hand, the post-game in TTYD is excellent as-is and fairly robust, anyway. There's a lot to do outside of the main story, in stark contrast to the first one on N64.
But the original TTYD was so incredibly good, I'm excited to replay it again regardless. Definitely cool to see they've taken care to keep the game fully intact but make completely new graphics and small QoL tweaks, as well as some cool-sounding reinterpreted music.
The new GameCube badge you can buy in the Badge shop to get access to the original soundtrack really hits you right in the feels.
But the original TTYD was so incredibly good, I'm excited to replay it again regardless. Definitely cool to see they've taken care to keep the game fully intact but make completely new graphics and small QoL tweaks, as well as some cool-sounding reinterpreted music.
The new GameCube badge you can buy in the Badge shop to get access to the original soundtrack really hits you right in the feels.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
What's the other one?
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bender
What time is it?
Shiren.
Robb
Gold Member
Huh? Guess I missed out on that. I can only recall switching partners by entering the pause menu (and/or during battle I guess). Although this was 20(!?) years ago.. So maybe I'm just forgetting.
Trilobit
Absolutely Cozy
I've heard this game is in 30fps, which is a bit crazy as the original on Gamecube was in 60fps.
www.nintendolife.com
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Switch Frame Rate Revealed
The new version with "revamped graphics" appears to run at 30fps
www.nintendolife.com
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I hope they change it, there is no reason this should not be able to run at 60 FPS with these visuals. CPU load should be unchanged and the Switch CPU is leagues beyond GCN's Gekko.I've heard this game is in 30fps, which is a bit crazy as the original on Gamecube was in 60fps.
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Switch Frame Rate Revealed
The new version with "revamped graphics" appears to run at 30fps
Robb
Gold Member
Doubt it, I was watching a preview and they had even noticed framerate drops/stutter when there were loads of NPC's on screen.
Would be nice if Nintendo allows for a free 60fps upgrade to entice us to buy "Switch 2" though..
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
That makes it a bit of a shoddy remake Nintendo is releasing early to full the space the Switch 2 launch delay compared to initial schedules… The game having stutters and framerate drops is a low bar for a "I get it, it is reasonable to expect a 60 FPS GameCube game have its framerate cut in half on a much more powerful modern HW".
That is possible, insulting, but possible…
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Yeah, 20 years is a long time. It's one of my Top 5 all time, so i've played it every 5-6 years ever since '04. Yeah it's right on the main screen, when you bring up the HUD. There's a D pad shortcut in the corner of the screen, and each direction is a menu shortcut to bring up various things you need often, including the Partner select wheel. I think this is just an even easier method to bring it up.Huh? Guess I missed out on that. I can only recall switching partners by entering the pause menu (and/or during battle I guess). Although this was 20(!?) years ago.. So maybe I'm just forgetting.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
100% it'll get an FPS boost on next-gen. I mean it just is what it is.
Nintendo prioritized graphics in this remake. So 30fps was probably all they could do. Whereas in the GameCube version, the graphics were intentionally basic, and GameCube was such a massive upgrade in tech from N64, they had all this headroom to basically just do whatever they wanted and still hit 60fps, such as throwing in 500 pixel characters in one screen.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Personally I couldn't care less. I will just say that regardless of what Nintendo corporate decides to do with updating or reverting back to original Japanese context, Vivian is one of the best partners in the game. And I will die on that hill.
She's
female at birth, regardless of what she believes she is now.Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
… and Switch cannot do that at 720p (handheld mode) vs GCN 480p? The same system that is running DOOM Eternal at 30 FPS is having trouble rendering this beautiful, not saying it does not look good, remake at 60 FPS? It is fine to say "I am so thirsty for it I do not mind if they are not really pushing the system as they could as a first party".
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
No, it's an RPG with a much-loved story. What a silly thing to say.
Punished Miku
Banned
I'm interested, but I just got so burned buying Mario RPG full price. I may wait for a black Friday deal.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I think they're also using the modern Paper Mario engine from Color Splash and Oragmi King, which was originally made for Wii U specs. So maybe that also made them decide early on not to bother with it. It was clearly an early design decision.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I get it, it is still something that a first party team should sort out. It is not like the device cannot handle it
.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I feel like if it was that easy to accomplish they would've done it, tho right? As you've alluded to, first-party Nintendo is like the best in the world at what they do.I get it, it is still something that a first party team should sort out. It is not like the device cannot handle it
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Easy to do != free to do and Nintendo is also master at cheapening out. It is not like they are getting backlash more than they are getting excuses made for them rightI feel like if it was that easy to accomplish they would've done it, tho right? As you've alluded to, first-party Nintendo is like the best in the world at what they do.
?
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I'm not in game development, so I cannot speak with any authority on how they arrived at TTYD being 30fps. If anyone here can speak as an authority on the subject, I'd welcome it. Otherwise just sounds like all talk to me.Easy to do != free to do and Nintendo is also master at cheapening out. It is not like they are getting backlash more than they are getting excuses made for them right
I'd love the game to be 60FPS as much as anyone, but I also think it's all too easy to sit behind a keyboard and armchair quarterback things we don't really know anything about.
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TTYD is much bigger, and much better then mario rpg. I don't think you'll feel burned here. Play paper mario 64 on nso if you want to get a taste of what ttyd is gonna be like (and imagine it dialed up to 11).
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I don't know if this helps because I sort of see your vantage point. but I also think if it's a completely remade game from scratch, simply because the game was made once before, I'm not sure with that amount of effort put in that it means it shouldn't be full price.
But anyway, the point of my post is TTYD is quite a long game for especially for its time. If you do the main story plus the post game stuff you're looking at 50 to 60 hours, easy. Which in 2004 terms is a lot of content. Plus in this remake they've added even more lockable such as concept, art music collection and apparently apparently Nintendo was very hush-hush on any new additions to the post game so there could even be more that we don't know about yet.
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Emedan
Member
It's an JRPG, who gives a shit?I've heard this game is in 30fps, which is a bit crazy as the original on Gamecube was in 60fps.
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Switch Frame Rate Revealed
The new version with "revamped graphics" appears to run at 30fps
proandrad
Member
Lots of us, because even a card game looks and plays better at 60 than 30fps.
Codes 208
Member
Literally anything looks better at 60fps, but they got a point: its a turn based rpg, not call of duty or dmc. A higher fps would be nice but its not a necessity here.
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proandrad
Member
Rather them put the gamecube version on the eshop if they are going to put out a game that plays worst than the orginal.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sooner or later it goes down to "if someone profiles the game and proves it could be optimised further then… otherwise shut up, they are the best there is and this is the best Switch could make". If this had been 15-20 FPS running at 540p same thing? "Would love it to be better, but let's stop armchair quarterbacking"?I'm not in game development, so I cannot speak with any authority on how they arrived at TTYD being 30fps. If anyone here can speak as an authority on the subject, I'd welcome it. Otherwise just sounds like all talk to me.
I'd love the game to be 60FPS as much as anyone, but I also think it's all too easy to sit behind a keyboard and armchair quarterback things we don't really know anything about.
It is totally possible that the way they implemented the game is heavy enough to take the console down to 30 FPS, but the console by evidence of much more complex games over years has achieved better and from third party developers too.
It just seems the standard for this is "as low as what we get is good" sometimes
. Anyways, 30 FPS if stable is ok. Not great, but it works ..
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Ah, it looks so much better with the paper effects/materials so much more convincing in every way, I did not think they'd do so much to it, just remaster it with some higher res textures, but it looks completely remade even in the scenes that are nearly 1:1 in content, style, camera angle, etc., DS style.
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Emedan
Member
Ya'll got problems. I never ever got the FPS whoring, I never played games in 60fps growing up, not on consoles cause they never delivered it and absolutely not on PC because I and most couldn't afford to build/constantly upgrade it. You people are spoiled babies
Shake Your Rump
Banned
I thought the same thing when playing Tales of Symphonia on PS3 (30fps). Then I tried it on GameCube where it is 60fps. Even just walking around the overworld is a vastly superior experience at the higher frame rate.
It's embarrassing if they took this 20-year-old game and cut the framerate in half.
Truly, isnt isn't as much about the rendering framerate, but the input latency. Run the game at 120hz, but graphics at 30fps, and it would probably feel fine.
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proandrad
Member
What did you grow up with, a PS4?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I've heard this game is in 30fps, which is a bit crazy as the original on Gamecube was in 60fps.
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door Switch Frame Rate Revealed
The new version with "revamped graphics" appears to run at 30fps
It's 30 FPS but it's also doing much more visually. It's not a straight-up conversion cutting the performance in half.
Original:
Remaster:
proandrad
Member
So are we going to pretend dolphin isn't a thing.It's 30 FPS but it's also doing much more visually. It's not a straight-up conversion cutting the performance in half.
Original:
Remaster:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't know what emulation has to do with this. Is that emulator running on Switch caliber hardware?
proandrad
Member
Actually, yes you run this emulator on a switch, switch lite even. So if modders can provide better ports ports for free, what is nintendo's excuse?
Closer
Member
Next they're going to bring that a hacked switch can emulate switch games better than original switch can play it natively.
Edit: close but no cigar
Edit2: wording
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
To my limited understanding, you can't do things like the HD Textures from the video when running the emulator on Switch.
So we're back to the original point that it's not exactly running the same GC version, they've done quite a big visual overhaul for this re-release.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
486 MHz single core PowerPC CPU + 162 MHz GPU (a pre-pixel shaders system of color combiners), 3 MB of eDRAM, 24 MB of main RAM (low latency DRAM, the 1-T SRAM), a another very low bandwidth 16 MB of DRAM pool (A-RAM?). Game is rendered at 480i@60 Hz… let's assume that the effective load on the GPU is 240p@60 Hz to make the comparison even more lenient.It's 30 FPS but it's also doing much more visually. It's not a straight-up conversion cutting the performance in half.
Original:
Remaster:
Vs
4 Cortex A-57 cores running at 1+ GHz in handheld mode (1.02 GHz in handheld mode and up to 1.7 GHz in boosted mode docked) + 307.2 MHz GPU in undocked mode (up to 460 MHz undocked when in boost mode though and 768 MHz docked) + 4 GB of RAM.
Now, the game would be essentially the same CPU load wise, so no contest there, and resolution wise even assuming Nintendo is doing PS2 style field rendering (GPU only renders 240 odd lines from one frame and the. 240 lines, etc… if framerate goes even a single frame below 60 Hz the game appearing a lot more aliased and lower resolution) it would be a 3x resolution jump… with a much much faster GPU to boot.
GCN's (quality) pixel fillrate was about 648 MPixels while Switch should be closer to 4.9 GPixels/s when undocked assuming the unboosted GPU clock speed of 307.2 MHz (well over 12 GPixels/s docked). The GPU can reach 460 MHz which is quite a jump for such parallel systems.
While FLOPS are not everything, we are talking about ~9 GFLOPS vs 157 GFLOPS assuming the base undocked clocks).
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Holammer
Member
Noticed how Lahla at the Pianta Parlor got the cat ears from the US/EU versions. In the Japanese version the girls had bunny ears.
Because I'm clearly insane and having nothing better to do, I checked the Japanese trailer and it also shows cat ears.
It's joever, Japan has fallen!
As a compromise, how about giving her sister at Westside Goods bunny ears? Everyone will be happy.
More than likely - but that also means it's decidedly not 'the best they could do' as 60 just wasn't on the table at all.
It's more like 5GOPS (pixel math throughput - let's not pretend that geometry processing even enters performance discussion here on any level - even on GC this game could not possibly be limited on vertex math) vs 157 GFlops.
Emedan
Member
Mostly PC, but also Nintendo 64, PS1-2, GC and OG Xbox
existensmaximum
Member
They don't care one bit and the game is going to sell tremendously well regardless? Less time and effort, less cost, more profit for them.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Three questions:
1) Since they've added the Pipe Room to the sewers for quick travel, what are they doing with the spots in the sewers where the travel pipes originally were?Are they just not there and the sewers are laid out differently? Loot instead of a pipe? Curious what they're doing there
2) Like Mario Sunshine in the 3D Mario collection, does this work with the GameCube controller too? Because that would be amazing. Especially since one of Yoshis attacks required the analog trigger
3) Additional secret bosses or a New Game + in this one? Doubtful but it'd be awesome. One of my favorite things about the original TTYD is letting players save after the credits and the entire post-game is its own story and everyone in the game is aware you defeated the main final boss and rescued Peach.
1) Since they've added the Pipe Room to the sewers for quick travel, what are they doing with the spots in the sewers where the travel pipes originally were?Are they just not there and the sewers are laid out differently? Loot instead of a pipe? Curious what they're doing there
2) Like Mario Sunshine in the 3D Mario collection, does this work with the GameCube controller too? Because that would be amazing. Especially since one of Yoshis attacks required the analog trigger
3) Additional secret bosses or a New Game + in this one? Doubtful but it'd be awesome. One of my favorite things about the original TTYD is letting players save after the credits and the entire post-game is its own story and everyone in the game is aware you defeated the main final boss and rescued Peach.