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Analysts predict tough competition in Xmas '05 market

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=pub&aid=3714

I'm guessing they meant Christmas '04

Rob Fahey 14:38 01/07/2004

Even major titles aren't exempt from the threat of competition, says report

A new report from Banc of America Securities has predicted that Christmas competition in the games market will be much more intense than last year - with even industry leader EA expected to lose 2 to 4 per cent market share.

The report, authored by analysts Gary L Cooper, Eric K Brown and John P Newell, details key clashes between major titles in almost every genre - and presents a convincing argument for the claim that "apart from The Sims 2.0, we do not consider any game this holiday out of harm's way of the competition."

It also highlights the fact that more games will be released in the October-December period this year than in any previous year (according to current release schedules), and while it states a belief that the headline titles should all perform well, there's concern that competition between them may result in underperformance to some extent - and a much more pressing concern about the impact on smaller publishers.

In a Christmas quarter when even Electronic Arts is expected to lose between two and four per cent of its market share due to strong competition and the difficulty of establishing its new more hardcore titles such as GoldenEye and Battlefield against rivals like Halo 2 and GTA San Andreas, publishers with less well-known brands are liable to be squeezed out of the market, the authors of the report argue.

"We have very low expectations for games of other developers with less-known brands," it states, "including Acclaim, Midway (except Mortal Kombat), Atari, Eidos, Vivendi (apart from Half-Life 2, if it is releasd) and even Microsoft (apart from Halo 2)...With the competition out there and large number of titles, some games will just not receive any shelf space from retailers, and initial shipments of titles will be very low, even by historical standards. Expect many disasters this holiday."
 
I definetly think we're going to see quite a few delays for the lesser known games. Just look at last year where stuff like BG&E were overlooked because of bigger games. Now you've basically got sequels to the biggest games of this generation all releasing in the same timeframe.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Except Paper Mario 2, which is a sequel to a game from LAST generation. :p
 
Seriously,

It blows away the lineup for 2001 of: GTA3, MGS2, Halo, Tony Hawk 3, Super Smash Bros, & GT3. Over 75% of the big 2004 releases listed below, could (or would have in other years or seasons) sold over 1 million each. There is no way in hell we're going to get 30-40 million sellers this year, which means many titles will have disappointing sales.

2004 (just a quick hit list - there are so many more )
---------------------------
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Gran Turismo 4
Metal Gear Solid 3
Halo 2
Resident Evil 4
Doom 3
Half-Life 2
Metroid Prime: Echoes
Killzone
Jak 3
Ratchet & Clank: Up Your Arsenal
Fable
Prince of Persia 2
Battlefield
Burnout 3
Sly Cooper 2
Silent Hill 4
Splinter Cell 3
Dead or Alive: Ultimate
Ace Combat 5
Star Wars: Battlefront
Hot Shots Golf: Fore!
Mortal Kombat: Deception
Tony Hawk: Underground 2
Unreal Championship 2
Devil May Cry 3
Midnight Club 3
Need for Speed: Underground 2
Goldeneye: Rogue Agent
Star Ocean
 

Alcibiades

Member
If Nintendo were to move Metroid Prime 2 to like Oct. 1st or something even if it means suffering Donkey Konga sales (and move Donkey Konga to November and move Mario Party 6 up to November as well, which I think is a 2006 release right now), they would probably get overall better numbers considering the "adult/teenager" market could be targeted for a couple of weeks alone until San Andreas and Halo 2 come in to rule... they wouldn't really have the impact on Donkey Konga and Mario Party 6 like they would on Metroid Prime 2, which is directly competing for the same demographics... family-friendly fare will do good anyways...

oh well, at least there is the hope they'll launch the DS in November...
 

Deg

Banned
Mama Smurf said:
I think VJ2 is 2005 already.

It'll be interesting to see how Paper Mario 2 sells.

It'll do pretty good especially as it has no competition on GC.
 

Alcibiades

Member
sonycowboy said:
You're right. Jade Empire is 2005, but Unreal is still slated for 2004.

actually, I just guess on Jade Empire since Fable is already gonna come out that's the "holiday RPG" for XBox it didn't make sense to release Jade Empire 2...

BUT, I thought I read that they moved Unreal 2 to February so that it doesn't get slaughtered by Halo 2...
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
You can't just move all games. It's not like Konga which can be moved as it's practically finished, MP2 is on course for November and the team is no doubt working extra hard just to make that date already.
 

jedimike

Member
The shelf space problem is huge! Retailers just don't have room for every game coming out. It's a shame because lesser known titles probably won't even be ordered from a lot of retailers. The Wedbush report said that WalMart will probably only order the top 200 games (that's across Xbox, GC, PS2, and GB).

This is also another reason why prices on games are dropping faster than ever. Retailers have to clear out the old to make room for the new.
 

Alcibiades

Member
Mama Smurf said:
You can't just move all games. It's not like Konga which can be moved as it's practically finished, MP2 is on course for November and the team is no doubt working extra hard just to make that date already.

yeah, I know, but Pikmin 2 is finished also just like Donkey Konga, but Nintendo is basically waiting to release them strategically...

Pikmin 2 is actually the start of the holiday Nintendo releases since it's practically a September game...

it's true though that they are probably targeting to have the game finished by November, but my guess is Nintendo has games ready quite a bit ahead of schedule for quality control and testing anyway, but yeah they can't just throw everything around...
 
Mama Smurf said:
You can't just move all games. It's not like Konga which can be moved as it's practically finished, MP2 is on course for November and the team is no doubt working extra hard just to make that date already.

Yah but Nintendo's going to have their hands full with marketing later this year. They've got MP2, PM2 and RE4 to market. With RE4 atleast they'll have help from Capcom, but I still wonder which one they're going to give the bigger push to out of MP2 and PM2.
 
They could, but 1 game is usually chosen to get a bigger push than any other during a holiday season. Sony will give it to GT4, MS will obviously give it to HALO 2, but the one Nintendo gives it to is still a bit questionable. MP2 makes sense because of the multiplayer push, but I think PM2 could be potentially a bigger success with a bigger push.
 
SolidSnakex said:
They could, but 1 game is usually chosen to get a bigger push than any other during a holiday season. Sony will give it to GT4, MS will obviously give it to HALO 2, but the one Nintendo gives it to is still a bit questionable. MP2 makes sense because of the multiplayer push, but I think PM2 could be potentially a bigger success with a bigger push.

I don't know about Sony. They really seem to spread it out pretty evenly. I saw so many Jak 2, R&C2, & SOCOM 2 commercials last year and I don't know if they did one much over the other.

I expect them to push GT4, Killzone, Jak 3, and R&C 3 all very hard.
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
I think RE4 will be pushed above all else. I know it's more Capcom than Nintendo, but it's the only title I can see really helping sell GCs. Paper Mario 2 and MP2 can have big pushes too, but they pushed MP the first time and it sold well but not phenomenally (and it wasn't even going up against a Halo that time), and PM2 is going to sell simply because it has the word Mario in the title (I'm sure it'll get good reviews as well).

Let's face it, the vast majority of people who want to play MP2 or PM2 already have a GC. RE4 on the other hand looks so amazing, it could actually do something if marketed right.
 
sonycowboy said:
I don't know about Sony. They really seem to spread it out pretty evenly. I saw so many Jak 2, R&C2, & SOCOM 2 commercials last year and I don't know if they did one much over the other.

Yah but R&C2 ended up getting a push that lasted past the holiday season while the others stopped once hte holiday season ended. That's why i'd say R&C2 got the bigger push. If you remember with GT3 ads, Sony had commercials running for the game a year after it was released. GT4 is by far Sony's biggest game this holiday and I think they'll make sure it gets pushed more than any other. Killzone, depending on it's quality, will be right behind it I think.

"Let's face it, the vast majority of people who want to play MP2 or PM2 already have a GC. RE4 on the other hand looks so amazing, it could actually do something if marketed right."

MP2 has a new multiplayer mode which can bring in new players if it's really good. That's what happened with the N64 and GE, people who didn't have any interest in the system before GE were buying it just for that.
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
Mama Smurf said:
I think RE4 will be pushed above all else. I know it's more Capcom than Nintendo, but it's the only title I can see really helping sell GCs. Paper Mario 2 and MP2 can have big pushes too, but they pushed MP the first time and it sold well but not phenomenally (and it wasn't even going up against a Halo that time), and PM2 is going to sell simply because it has the word Mario in the title (I'm sure it'll get good reviews as well).

Let's face it, the vast majority of people who want to play MP2 or PM2 already have a GC. RE4 on the other hand looks so amazing, it could actually do something if marketed right.
IAWTP, although I do think MP2 will receive a pretty hard push in and of itself.
 

Mashing

Member
SolidSnakex said:
Yah but R&C2 ended up getting a push that lasted past the holiday season while the others stopped once hte holiday season ended. That's why i'd say R&C2 got the bigger push. If you remember with GT3 ads, Sony had commercials running for the game a year after it was released. GT4 is by far Sony's biggest game this holiday and I think they'll make sure it gets pushed more than any other. Killzone, depending on it's quality, will be right behind it I think.

"Let's face it, the vast majority of people who want to play MP2 or PM2 already have a GC. RE4 on the other hand looks so amazing, it could actually do something if marketed right."

MP2 has a new multiplayer mode which can bring in new players if it's really good. That's what happened with the N64 and GE, people who didn't have any interest in the system before GE were buying it just for that.

But the multiplayer is not online, casuals won't care (which I think is ironic, casuals play online more than hardcore gamers... atleast that's been my observations considering how many stupid people play online games).
 

Alcibiades

Member
actually, considering the minimal impact online has made both in terms of sales and adoption rate, I'd say online is played by more hardcore than casuals with the exception of maybe SOCOM and a couple of XBox Live games...
 
Wow, the analysts predicted what GAF already guessed using commonsense. Why are they paid again?

But seriously, this fall will be a bloodbath, and I fear for many quality titles' sales.
 
Korranator said:
Someday they will realize we play and buy games 12 months out of the year.

I think they already realise it, but the holiday season is by far the biggest time for games so developers want to get their games in right when that season arrives. Only if they'd realise that the first half of the year is basically empty of big releases so they'd have it all to themself if they'd release some really big games then.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
This fall will be one of the best years EVER for gamers...BUT...everyone is right when they say it could be really bad for publishers. There are just too many good games on the way and not enough shelf space...
 

UFC PRIDE

Member
The only thing I want this winter is a DS - everything else is so sequelized and remade. Next year should be one heck of a battle though - Legend of Zelda vs. XBox 2 vs. Final Fantasy XII. Give me a DS and SMB 4 (yes its a sequel - but its new on the DS) and I'm fine.
 

rastex

Banned
NotMSRP said:
Thanks to all of the dumb publishers, I'll be enjoying all of the Wario64 posts in first quarter of 2005. :D


SOOOOOOO true. If people were patient and just waited a couple of months they could save themselves hundreds of dollars. Just let the mainstream casuals carry the top titles along and then come in and swoop the leftovers for super cheap.
 

Fularu

Banned
Korranator said:
Someday they will realize we play and buy games 12 months out of the year.
Looking by sale charts, not really, most of the titles are bought during the holiday season, and that's abotu it
 
Fularu said:
Looking by sale charts, not really, most of the titles are bought during the holiday season, and that's abotu it
Uhm, that's funny because that's when majority of the big games are released ;)

When will this stupid fucking industry wise up :(
 

jarrod

Banned
In terms of consumer uptake and market penetration, PS2 Online/XBox Live = Sega CD/Turbo CD. Next generation will be when online games start dominating to any significant degree, just as optical media became the standard with PlayStation/Saturn.
 
Another part of the article

Analysts Dub “04 Xmas Lineup Murderers’ Row [7/1/2004 4:46:14 PM ET]
After labeling 2003 “the year of the non-battle” in the videogame industry, a band of Banc of America Securities analysts have issued a research brief that dubs the 2004 fall lineup of games a “murders’ row of potential blockbusters” and examines the impact such a gathering of games could have on the industry as a whole.
Some the heavy hitters cited by the analysts due out this fall (and into the holiday season) include Halo 2, The Sims 2.0, GTA: San Andreas, Metal Gear Solid 3, Gran Turismo 4, Half-Life 2, DOOM 3 and Metroid Prime 2, comprising a lineup that “could prove to be the largest and most competitive in the 30-year history of the videogame industry.”
The analysts noted however, that aside from The Sims 2.0, they “do not consider any game this holiday out of harm’s way of the competition, “adding that “many publishers and games will suffer from the intense competition.” The Banc of America team has “very low expectations” for games with lesser-known brands, including those from Acclaim, Midway, Atari, Vivendi Universal Games and even Microsoft, omitting Half-Life 2 and Halo 2.
The research states that Electronic Arts titles “should enjoy solid sales” during the 2004 fall period, but the analysts “believe that EA’s titles skew towards a slightly more hardcore audience” and “may have a more difficult time gaining traction.” To that end, EA is forecasted to lose two to four percent of its console market share, despite its PC business “likely being meaningfully higher.”
All this leads the analysts to compare investing in videogame stocks to a “giant game of chicken,” though they still “believe most videogame stocks to be undervalued.”
 
Mama Smurf said:
It seems absolutely ridiculous not to consider Halo 2 and GTA: SA out of harm's way.

They'll obviously be blockbusters, but the point is that the Sims 2.0 is in a genre all it's own. There will be a ton of FPS and Action games coming out and some of them will pull away from the those titles. Not enough to make them failures, but enough to be "lost" money.
 

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
The Sims might have a genre to itself, but that doesn't mean people won;t buy other games over it.

Oh and EAs titles skew towards a more hardcore audience? I gotta say that's the first time I've heard that leveled against them.
 

Subitai

Member
Mama Smurf said:
The Sims might have a genre to itself, but that doesn't mean people won;t buy other games over it.

Oh and EAs titles skew towards a more hardcore audience? I gotta say that's the first time I've heard that leveled against them.
They don't have enough platform and party games on schedule games on schedule. I'm assuming they think those games will be a little bigger this year.
 
Well, the thing is most people don't own all three systems.
In a lot of cases a person won't be having to choose between buying Halo 2 or Metroid Prime 2 because they'll either have a Gamecube,xbox, or a PS2.
There is a glut of software to me though since I do indeed own the three consoles.
I'm already skipping on games like COR and Thief so that when the big boys drop I can pounce.
 

Nicco

Member
sonycowboy said:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?section_name=pub&aid=3714
The report, authored by analysts Gary L Cooper, Eric K Brown and John P Newell, details key clashes between major titles in almost every genre - and presents a convincing argument for the claim that "apart from The Sims 2.0, we do not consider any game this holiday out of harm's way of the competition."[/b]
If there is one thing that I would bet on this holiday season (if I were a betting man), it would be that Nintendo is going to freaking bank. And no, I am not talking about the GCN, I'm talking about Nintendo. Prime 2, Mario Party 6, and Mario Paper 2 are ganarteed to sell well as they are sequels to platinum-selling games.

Same goes for EA and Sony, too. Everyone else is foolishily relying on a single game to carry them through the season. (Though it can be argue that Nitnendo did the same thing with MK:DD last year, with much success mind you.)

Halo 2 is probably going to be the biggest game of the season. I'm expecting GTA:SA to be the second. Beyond that, it's a toss up. Howbeit, there are enough consoles out there now that more than one can game prosper.
 
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