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[Haly]

I mean, just not chatting is enough to raise suspicion. It comes down to the Gossip aggressively employing their ability to its fullest extent.

It's definitely not a straightforward ability to use like Cop (lol Karkador, so creative).

 

[ultron87]

I don't think the gossips really serve as "detectors". People can lie in those chats just as easily as they can lie anywhere else. The only info we've gotten from them is the fact that the actual gossips are confirmed to be gossips and that some other role claims at least had their story straight a bit before they claimed.

The most useful purpose is that it lets small groups of players put plans into action for night actions or day votes without having to broadcast their moves to the entire town and hostile ears. It means town players could conceivably set up scenarios where they stuff the ballot box at the last moment or other such coordinated actions without the HHA knowing it is coming. The potential overlapping of the gossip area even means that you could conceivably have a reasonably large section of the town in on a plan if you think you have a trustworthy intermediary.

 

[Haly]

I've wanted to, more than once over the course of this game, discuss my theories in private because I didn't want to alert the would-be suspects to my thoughts. That's how I see the Gossip ability being used.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

So just did a quick skim, looks like Foshy may have the most votes with 2 atm? Salva/Nin, is his inactivity the only thing you guys goin on since he kinda has confirmation as a gossip?

 

[EzekelRAGE]

My bad, may be Luna with 2 and Foshy with 2. But idk about that since Kark lookin for replacement for Luna?

 

[Mazre]

Home from work. Lightsleeper news definitely throws some wrenches. Currently against voting out an inactive today, the odds are against getting an HHA (though not impossible), and we learn next to nothing from it. Still processing and trying to come up with an eviction candidate.

 

[Haly]

Time to revote:

Vote: Salvapot

With the reveal of Toma's Light Sleeper role, and the synchronization of his and Kalor's findings, I have very little confidence that there are any HHA in the top left side of the map. Thus, I'm putting my bets on Salvapot once again, since I think LMD will be replaced, LMQ is worth keeping around for his activity,AND francorp is worth keeping around for his role. The other suspects are within the range of Gossips, so I am content to wait for something to come out of those networks.

 

[Darryl]

I like my gossip group. We're keeping it real. No extended rants about posting counts or posting times in here.

Red Herrings B Gone

 

[Mazre]

Question for light sleepers? Are you included in your coverage area? In effect are you alerted if you are the target?

 

[Karkador]

LunaticLMD getting the vote at this point is completely your prerogative. Ideally, I don't think going inactive should make you immune from getting voted on. If we made that a habit, then no one would say anything.

If I don't hear back from Lunatic tonight, I've got someone lined up to replace (an active poster, even)

 

[Darryl]

franconp

1. struggle to understand why franconp felt the need to come out as a cop when they weren't under real threat of eviction (i've tried multiple times now to push the town towards it and the vocal seemed welcome to keep them even if they were HHA)
2. coming out as a cop makes them a greater target for HHA
3. HHA hasn't evicted them yet

gossip

1. it seems like a lot of the vocal are intent on bringing down the gossip networks
2. inactivity was been pressured since the start of the game, players are beyond highly aware of the impact of their post count (imo, making it near non-factor)
3. with HHA having more information, in a scenario where the networks were overwhelming with villagers, could easily keep topics bent on discussing them
4. #3 would create lots of filler posts that implicate next to no one as they aren't actually discussing people

i'm going to continue taking discussion away from these networks atm, which is why i'm leading the voting for a role consistently blank, prior to filled with a guy who made an oddly implicating post and bailed

 

[Haly]

It's only been one night since we learned of francorp's role. Not like the HHA had much time to weigh on it.

 

[Timeaisis]

Just popping in to say I'm still here, and have absolutely no inclinations which way to vote.

I've been particularly busy at work, so I haven't lots of time to respond. I am (mostly) abreast of the situation, however.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

LunaticLMD getting the vote at this point is completely your prerogative. Ideally, I don't think going inactive should make you immune from getting voted on. If we made that a habit, then no one would say anything.

If I don't hear back from Lunatic tonight, I've got someone lined up to replace (an active poster, even)

Just didn't want to waste an eviction day on a person who can just end up getting mod killed.

 

[nin1000]

So just did a quick skim, looks like Foshy may have the most votes with 2 atm? Salva/Nin, is his inactivity the only thing you guys goin on since he kinda has confirmation as a gossip?

Only his inactivity is bothering me nothing else to go for. Thought he would would have said at least one thing up to this point. Just want to hear from him. I am still unsure, will sleep over it and then decide if i stay with the vote or chose another player.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Kalor man....

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

A lot of my conversation up until now has been under the assumption that you couldn't detect that.

I have some analysis for these areas covered by the light sleepers. For Toma's area... wait that's weird. He says he didn't hear any activity on night 1, so why didn't he hear Tucah being evicted? So, unless someone screwed up, we won't hear any activity when mafia come to evict someone. That's good to keep in mind.

As for Kalor's area...

Night 1: There was activity. Either there is a commuter, an HHA was contracted, or someone used an action in that area - or some combination of the three. However, because there was no action taken on night 2, it's a reasonable assumption that there is no doctor in that area - why would a doctor waste a turn? Also, we know because Tucah was evicted first night that HHA didn't target that area. However, an action may have been used on one of these players, protective or otherwise. Due to the overlap with RNH, we know whatever happened in this area did NOT involve him.

Night 2: No action. Again, reasonable to expect there isn't a really important role in Kalor's area since it wasn't utilized on the second night. However, we do know that gossips don't activate the light sleeper passive ability, but we know that from Toma's area.

Night 3: Same as night 1. Again, we wouldn't hear it if someone was targeted in this area.

Also, I am NOT a gossip. Not that I even have many people to chat with. ;_;

Hey Kark (or someone), could we get a current vote count?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Also, we know because Tucah was evicted first night that HHA didn't target that area.

Ignore that bit of a redundancy, I wrote that before I looked at Toma's area.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Also I can now say:

Tucah was killed Night 1. Yet, there was no activity in my area on Night 1.

I checked this out and Tucah's death contradicts what I've been told about activity in my area.. so a HHA member can act without being detected?

Just to be clear, when you say the bold you mean you msged Kark about it? Just wanted to be sure. There was a thing last game where Crab forgot to msg a role about somehting like that I think.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Also I can now say:

Tucah was killed Night 1. Yet, there was no activity in my area on Night 1.

I checked this out and Tucah's death contradicts what I've been told about activity in my area.. so a HHA member can act without being detected?

Oops didn't see this.

Wait, what if the guy who killed him was a stealth killer?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Assuming mafia in this game contract their kills to a single member like in the last game.

 

[Karkador]

Assuming mafia in this game contract their kills to a single member like in the last game.

They do - that much works the same way as the last game, and I think it's fair to establish it as a simple matter of fact. One of the HHA players sends me the command at night.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Oops didn't see this.

Wait, what if the guy who killed him was a stealth killer?

Assuming nothing else happened, that would seem to be the case.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Holy shit, the info drops.

 

[Mazre]

Time to revote:

Vote: Salvapot

With the reveal of Toma's Light Sleeper role, and the synchronization of his and Kalor's findings, I have very little confidence that there are any HHA in the top left side of the map. Thus, I'm putting my bets on Salvapot once again, since I think LMD will be replaced, LMQ is worth keeping around for his activity,AND francorp is worth keeping around for his role. The other suspects are within the range of Gossips, so I am content to wait for something to come out of those networks.

I'm pretty much okay with this line of thought. However, I think I'll also propose an alternative, though it probably won't gain much traction.

VOTE: Tomakasatnav

Toma has claimed light sleeper and Kalor and he have somewhat mutually corroborated each other. Why evict him then? We'll learn something if he is what he says he is and we'll learn something if he isn't what he says he is.

Scenario 1: He is what he says he is
We confirm Kalor's role claim (though not his alignment). We confirm nothing has gone in or out of the area covered during the first 3 nights. We lose coverage of the area but that amounts to Tucah (gone already), Foshy (can't act at night due to role), RNH (covered by Kalor), and Ouro. In effect we only lose coverage on Ouro and inbound actions to that area.

Scenario 2: He isn't what he says he is
Sub A: Lie about role but shown to be HHA
Implicates Kalor as HHA and throws everything said about light sleepers into question, Why would they take the risk? Wanted to remove vote from Toma, difficult for anyone but franconp to call their bluff, conveniently corroborate each other while modifying/masking previous claims.

Sub B: Is light sleeper but HHA aligned
Casts suspicion on Kalor, but neither confirms/disproves Kalor's role/alignment, hardest to suss out repercussions of this possibility but hey at least we would end up removing an HHA

Strongest arguments I can come up with against doing this are:
Tucah's role implies strongly that he is under surveillance, or at the minimum that a surveillance role is present in the game. If it's not Kalor/Toma then who?
Do we learn enough at the expense of what seems to be a high probability townie?

Looking to aim for an eviction that tells us something whether our suspicions are right or wrong. If you disagree with me, Haly makes some decent arguments for Salva (not that I feel strongly about him being HHA), and if we're wrong we don't learn much other than that he was a villager (or worse had some power role for us). You also still have the option of voting an inactive or even a low activity player, though at this point in the game I don't personally feel either of those is a great option.

 

[Haly]

What do you mean Foshy can't act at night?

 

[Mazre]

What do you mean Foshy can't act at night?

He's a gossip. He by definition has no night action.

 

[Haly]

???

Gossip just invites people to PMs or a private board or however they're handling this. I don't think anyone's said about what they can or cannot do simultaneously, unless I missed a key post?

Wait, I forgot you're a Gossip. Paraphrase the full role description for me then.

 

[Mazre]

Each day phase you can invite one neighbor to your chat.

Chat members may only post during the night, main thread rules apply.

Members of chat are the chat are not told fellow members roles or alignments.



That's the gist of it.

 

[Mazre]

Third line should read:

Members of chat are not told fellow members roles or alignments.

 

[Mazre]

And yes, to clarify the chat is a private board.

 

[Haly]

The role PM is supposed to read: "You may only chat with the people you invite at night; conversely you may not communicate with your Gossip network in the day."

And not: "You may not perform any other action at night, except posting in your private chat."

Why would anyone feel the need to specify the second rule? I can't imagine a situation where this rule would have to be enforced by the moderator.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Ok guys, I'm going to need some help here... I think we might be able to nail a legit HHA today. I'm going to take a couple of things for granted, but I think these things are true.

With the revelation that mafia contract a single member to take out a hit, I've decided to focus on the actions of Night 2. I chose Night 2 because there's a reasonable assumption that the power that was used on Night 1 that didn't allow Toma to detect mafia activity couldn't be replicated two nights in a row. That would be really friggin' broken, ya know?

Night 2 is interesting for a very specific reason: neither Toma nor Kalor heard any activity. That eliminates a number of players as culprits, as no one in their area moved nor were they targeted. What's more, I believe that franconp is a town-aligned investigator. He investigated Timeaisis already and proved he was a villager. I eliminated LunaticLMD from the list because 21GunShow was inactive for the duration of Night 2. I also eliminated good guys who were eliminated. And lastly, I eliminated myself because I'm leading this train of thought so obviously I wouldn't bring attention to myself like this so specifically.

Someone on this list carried out the hit on Night 2:

EzekelRAGE
nin1000
Ultron
Razmos
Darryl
SalvaPot
Hobohodo

I think if we had some other way to eliminate players from the list, we could really narrow this down. Maybe a third light sleeper; there are three gossips, after all.

Any thoughts or does anyone have extra information?

 

[Mazre]

The role PM is supposed to read: "You may only chat with the people you invite at night; conversely you may not communicate with your Gossip network in the day."

And not: "You may not perform any other action at night, except posting in your private chat."

Why would anyone feel the need to specify the second rule? I can't imagine a situation where this rule would have to be enforced by the moderator.

You've lost me a little bit here. What action will he take at night if his role doesn't specify a night action?

I can only assume you're talking about him being HHA and then additionally being able to evict at night (as I assume any HHA aligned player may do), that being they're general eviction power.

That said it appears that either this doesn't count as a 'role' action that is detectable or the HHA have a separate mechanism for a 'stealth' kill.

If they have a stealth kill without limits (or say when initiated by a specific HHA) then until we root that person out all of their kills would be stealth kills anyways.

If such an ability is shot limited, would they spend a shot on night 1 when they have the most freedom to act?

If it's somehow range limited who could've used it on Tucah? Freak was village, Foshy is a gossip (seems weird that HHA gossip would have stealth kill), leaving Toma.

 

[Ourobolus]

Ok guys, I'm going to need some help here... I think we might be able to nail a legit HHA today. I'm going to take a couple of things for granted, but I think these things are true.

With the revelation that mafia contract a single member to take out a hit, I've decided to focus on the actions of Night 2. I chose Night 2 because there's a reasonable assumption that the power that was used on Night 1 that didn't allow Toma to detect mafia activity couldn't be replicated two nights in a row. That would be really friggin' broken, ya know?

Night 2 is interesting for a very specific reason: neither Toma nor Kalor heard any activity. That eliminates a number of players as culprits, as no one in their area moved nor were they targeted. What's more, I believe that franconp is a town-aligned investigator. He investigated Timeaisis already and proved he was a villager. I eliminated LunaticLMD from the list because 21GunShow was inactive for the duration of Night 2. I also eliminated good guys who were eliminated. And lastly, I eliminated myself because I'm leading this train of thought so obviously I wouldn't bring attention to myself like this so specifically.

Someone on this list carried out the hit on Night 2:

EzekelRAGE
nin1000
Ultron
Razmos
Darryl
SalvaPot
Hobohodo

I think if we had some other way to eliminate players from the list, we could really narrow this down. Maybe a third light sleeper; there are three gossips, after all.

Any thoughts or does anyone have extra information?

Sorry for the short response, but I have some thoughts on this. I'll post them when I get home.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

If such an ability is shot limited, would they spend a shot on night 1 when they have the most freedom to act?

If it's somehow range limited who could've used it on Tucah? Freak was village, Foshy is a gossip (seems weird that HHA gossip would have stealth kill), leaving Toma.

They would use it on night 1 to throw us off. It was a gambit that I think may end up backfiring.

I'm not sure if range is the limitation, but I think there is one. I don't think they could replicate the same circumstances on night 2.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

What are we thinking about the stealth killer's power? Range-based? Once per game or every few nights?

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

It could be that they have a blocker who lucked out by picking Tom, not necessarily a stealth killer. Though that seems less likely.

 

[Haly]

You've lost me a little bit here. What action will he take at night if his role doesn't specify a night action?

Regarding this. We have no guarantee that he can't have two roles or that he can't have a modified Gossip role, like:

Welcome!

You are the Killer Gossip!

You are aligned with no one. You win when only you're the only player remaining.

Each day phase you can invite one neighbor to your chat.

Chat members may only post during the night, main thread rules apply.

Members of chat are not told fellow members roles or alignments.

Once you have invited all immediate neighbors to your chat, you can kill one of them during the night phase. To do so, send me a PM with KILL: <neighbor's name>

I don't know what grounds you have to rule this out with a statement like this:

He's a gossip. He by definition has no night action.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

We also don't know if the stealth killer can mute himself on both ends, when he leaves his home and when he gets to his target.

 

[SalvaPot]

I think the light sleeper was that they MAY get information about the activity at night, is not a 100% surefire ability, or at least that is what I understood of it.

For now I will reserve my vote, I honestly have no idea who to vote for right now, and I haven´t had the time to read through all the posts, I will try to give them a read tonight

Unvote: foshy

 

[Mazre]

Regarding this. We have no guarantee that he can't have two roles or that he can't have a modified Gossip role, like:



I don't know what grounds you have to rule this out with a statement like this:

You're correct that I can't rule this out based off my statement. We could make similar claims about any role claims so far though. We have no evidence I'm currently aware of that supports such a claim. It's the realm of pure conjecture.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I think the light sleeper was that they MAY get information about the activity at night, is not a 100% surefire ability, or at least that is what I understood of it.

For now I will reserve my vote, I honestly have no idea who to vote for right now, and I haven´t had the time to read through all the posts, I will try to give them a read tonight

Unvote: foshy

What the hay? MAY? What, does Kark flip a coin? :/

Spoiler

you're not nervous because your name is on my list are you... lol

 

[Ourobolus]

Ok guys, I'm going to need some help here... I think we might be able to nail a legit HHA today. I'm going to take a couple of things for granted, but I think these things are true.

With the revelation that mafia contract a single member to take out a hit, I've decided to focus on the actions of Night 2. I chose Night 2 because there's a reasonable assumption that the power that was used on Night 1 that didn't allow Toma to detect mafia activity couldn't be replicated two nights in a row. That would be really friggin' broken, ya know?

Night 2 is interesting for a very specific reason: neither Toma nor Kalor heard any activity. That eliminates a number of players as culprits, as no one in their area moved nor were they targeted. What's more, I believe that franconp is a town-aligned investigator. He investigated Timeaisis already and proved he was a villager. I eliminated LunaticLMD from the list because 21GunShow was inactive for the duration of Night 2. I also eliminated good guys who were eliminated. And lastly, I eliminated myself because I'm leading this train of thought so obviously I wouldn't bring attention to myself like this so specifically.

Someone on this list carried out the hit on Night 2:

EzekelRAGE
nin1000
Ultron
Razmos
Darryl
SalvaPot
Hobohodo

I think if we had some other way to eliminate players from the list, we could really narrow this down. Maybe a third light sleeper; there are three gossips, after all.

Any thoughts or does anyone have extra information?

Disclaimer: I've had a few drinks.

I'll put these in order of suspicion:

Darryl - Posts enough to not be inactive. So far, is out of range of the Light Sleepers, and is in Razmos' chat. May be lying, but may also be telling the truth. Most of my suspicion comes from the lack of posting - He's here, but he's pretty low-key.

nin1000 - Very antagonistic of Foshy. I know I defended him on a previous night, but that may have been a mistake. Has acted strangely, but again, it may just be panic and inexperience.

SalvaPot - Been in the middle as far as posting is concerned. Has defended himself pretty well, and while I'm not entirely sure about his alignment, he's definitely playing whatever role he has well.

Hobohodo - He's in the middle of two chats. A little suspicious, even though he has a low post count. I want to believe that Karkador wouldn't make it that obvious that he is Mafia though (due to his clearly obvious position), but I could be wrong (I lean more towards SalvaPot in that regard).

EzekelRAGE - Newbie for this game after whats-his-name was inactive. Very talkative, helps out quite a bit, but I really have no information regarding him. Maybe a Mafia? Maybe not. I really could toss a coin when it comes to him.

Ultron - Maybe Mafia, maybe Third Party. Either way, I think franconp's ability is too valuable to waste a turn getting rid of Ultron. At least until we get closer to the end.

Razmos - I believe he is Town. While I'm wary of the possibility of an HHA gossip, I don't think it's him, as he was pretty helpful in confirming Timeaisis' role. But again, I got freakzilla wrong, so WHO KNOWS.

What are we thinking about the stealth killer's power? Range-based? Once per game or every few nights?

I have no idea, but yeah, it seems pretty OP if it was unlimited. My guess is limited uses rather than range, because the HHA would have issues clearing the board if it was range-based. And at this point, I don't think they could have possibly known about the Light Sleepers (on the off-chance that franconp is HHA), so I doubt they were acting with regard to those roles.

 

[Ourobolus]

I think the light sleeper was that they MAY get information about the activity at night, is not a 100% surefire ability, or at least that is what I understood of it.

For now I will reserve my vote, I honestly have no idea who to vote for right now, and I haven´t had the time to read through all the posts, I will try to give them a read tonight

Unvote: foshy

May? That's a little...odd. That would require some sort of randomization, and I'd think that it should be pretty clear that someone either did or didn't perform an action in the area.

 

[SalvaPot]

What the hay? MAY? What, does Kark flip a coin? :/

Spoiler

you're not nervous because your name is on my list are you... lol

No, there are roles that do that. An example is the oracle or the spy in some setups of mafia. Roles that have a chance to catch activity around them, normally 33% or 50%, is fairly common. The role description of the light sleepers should be clear on this.

I mean, how do we explain this:

Also I can now say:

Tucah was killed Night 1. Yet, there was no activity in my area on Night 1.

I checked this out and Tucah's death contradicts what I've been told about activity in my area.. so a HHA member can act without being detected?

A stealth death also makes sense, since that is also a role that exist in other mafia setup. But I feel we should get some clarity in how effective the light sleeper role actually is.

 

[Karkador]

If any role in this game uses the word "may", it means that it's optional, not that it has a random chance of happening.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

If any role in this game uses the word "may", it means that it's optional, not that it has a random chance of happening.

well, there it is

 

[SalvaPot]

If any role in this game uses the word "may", it means that it's optional, not that it has a random chance of happening.

Gotcha, so sleep walker is supposed to get the activity no matter what.

Ok, so Tucah´s eviction I feel is an important piece of the puzzle. I think it would be pointless if sleep walker is not able to detect HHA activity on its area, so I think the theory that HHA can do stealth kills sounds plausible.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

dangit there has to be some other evidence out there... something I missed... it's a small list, but we need more to go on. I don't want to fall back on impressions for this vote.

 

[Mazre]

Actually....what's the point of a 'stealth' kill in the context of the light sleepers? All the sleepers seem to know is if something happened in their area. The fact that someone was evicted is evidence in and of itself that something happened.