Myself said:All that said, I knew what you were doing and I don't really care. If you haven't noticed, I have no problem sticking my neck out if it means getting more information out of people. And if you're wondering why suspicion doesn't fall on me, it's because I'm so completely brazen that it's unthinkable I'd be HHA and put myself at risk like this. Funny how that works isn't it? Of course now that I've tipped my hand people will be more suspicious of me now but, again, I don't really care.LaunchpadMcQ said:Originally, considering how much he typed, I thought he might not have seen kingkitty's post. But, the timestamp of his post tells me he probably did see the post before writing his. Considering how this puts the special roles at risk, I wouldn't think anyone who was truly town-aligned would want to dwindle down the numbers and get a full count, yet we have this. Either he's a townie who doesn't care, or he's an HHA who doesn't care.
I've always had a town read from Haly even in spite of his silence on this subject so this claim is not difficult for me to believe.
I don't like how kingkitty has responded to being pressured recently but there's no clear evidence here that there is a mafia amongst them anymore. I'm okay with lynching KK today but I REALLY want to hear more discussion about nin because I think he's the next best target right now.
I'm just going with the role I was handed. Just like when KK and the others were questioning you earlier and you roleclaimed (which now definitely means there are 3 power roles in our column).Ouro is triggering so many bells you don't even know. We already had one guy claim a pro-Village ability and he turned out to be HHA. He made a serious error in his logic which Ouro is taking care not to but isn't it convenient that when we're under threat of annihilation here is a Villager who can make it worse?
No dice.
I'm just going with the role I was handed. Just like when KK and the others were questioning you earlier and you roleclaimed (which now definitely means there are 3 power roles in our column).
Not well, I admit.Except again, none of your actions indicated that you had the role you're claiming to have
By the way, I know that everyone is very eager to get two evicts going but if no one is really confident in KingKitty anymore, we don't lose much by going Ouro/No-Evict. Assuming Ouro is HHA and Kingkitty isn't (we'd need a miracle to get two HHA on this day), we'd be pushing back the HHA win by one half cycle.
Just something to think about.
I'm not suspicious of KK, that's all. But I would have to do a lot of work I'm not willing to do to defend him and I'm not sure it would amount to anything. The thing is I don't have a better candidate in mind. if I defend Kingkitty, I need to propose someone else or else what's the point? Kingkitty rang a few alarm bells but not significantly more than anyone else (though less than some).
Because if my hunch is right and Ultron is HHA and blowing his ability now to advance end game as soon as possible, evicting KK, RNH, Me, whoever, any villager, is a win for them and a loss for us.You still didn't say why King isn't a good candidate for today.
Why the fuck would I ever role claim commuter? The role only works if the HHA have no idea it exists. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. When the game is over, and we learn the results of each action taken every Night, if the HHA did indeed waste a kill on me (it was an Odd night), then my strategem was redeemed. I made a lot of noise. I got noticed. I gave us one extra night.
Because if my hunch is right and Ultron is HHA and blowing his ability now to advance end game as soon as possible, evicting KK, RNH, Me, whoever, any villager, is a win for them and a loss for us.
Which is to say that now I have revealed my role, your reasoning looks a bit shakier, which is not to say that KK is suddenly free from all suspicion but is he really any more suspicious than any other probable HHA?
Why the fuck would I ever role claim commuter? The role only works if the HHA have no idea it exists.
Game fatigue. And reevaluating my approach to this game after my false read of Hippiehobo.Also if your plan was to "make noise" to draw HHA to you, why did you quit all of a sudden? The noisiest you've been is when you got Hippie evicted.
You just did. Why roleclaim today, when you are not safe, instead of yesterday when it was a topic we were discussing and you were safe.
I've been frustrated for a long time now having to people second guess themselves over and over again because of Kalor's detections and it's reached a tipping point for me as a bystander.Fine, there's no point keep a wrap on this anymore because it's clearly just causing more friction than it might help, and the HHA probably already knows what's going on.
I'm not suspicious of KK, that's all.
I don't agree with the heat on Kingkitty, that's all I have to say on this.
I think ultron is both Timmy and the Lost partner. I'll explain why when I get back.
Why the fuck would I ever role claim commuter? The role only works if the HHA have no idea it exists. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.
==========I've been frustrated for a long time now having to people second guess themselves over and over again because of Kalor's detections and it's reached a tipping point for me as a bystander.
Which is to say that now I have revealed my role, your reasoning looks a bit shakier, which is not to say that KK is suddenly free from all suspicion but is he really any more suspicious than any other probable HHA?
Matter of fact, no one even asked you to roleclaim. We wanted to hear why you didn't think King was that suspicious.
Which is the best outcome? 1!. Your logic or w/e that is at the bottom of the number makes no sense for 1. The only vote for you when you caused all this was KK, no one else was really lookin at you. Darryl even changed his vote off you. So you lost nothing and gained no heat from staying silent. Also your problem with 3b is that the night actions had basically nothing to do with why KK was a big suspect.The scenarios were:
1) I stay silent
The heat leaves KK and switches to me. I get evicted and Ouro gets evicted. That's an 80% chance to get an HHA and a 100% chance to get a Villager.
3b) I roleclaim and question whether evicting KK is the best move we have by undermining one of the strongest source of suspicions against him.
Now, which of these outcomes do you think is best? 2c) clearly, but I was not confident in my ability to pull off such a defense. The next optimal course of action was 3b) Roleclaim and "defend" KK
Why would I think he's the lost partner? The assumption rested on the fact that:Why do you think King isn't the lost partner? You go out of your way to say you are not suspicous of him to then not caring if he is evicted the next moment. Is it because you somehow though Ultron was both Timmy and the lost partner?
I've already gave my reasoning back when people first confronted me about it. I'm not going to go through it again. I've watched you guys go back and forth over and over again with no one discovering anything new about each other except haphazard finger pointing and I want no part of that.I still don't think you have explained how that would worked fully.
This is from your perspective as an Ordinary Villager or some other role. It's very different from my end I assure you.Roleclaiming for no reason because of frustration and trying to save townies a headache about the night 1 action is weak imo. Especially since the N1 action wasn't as big of a topic as it was last day phase.
If you don't think it's damaged your credibility, fine, I'm not interested in challenging it. Like I said over and over again: I, personally, am not suspicious of kingkitty, but this is a gut feeling on my part. I would not vote for him, but I wouldn't go out of my way to defend him either.You still haven't explained how your unwarranted role reveal shakes the reasoning I have for KK. Especially since it had hardly anything to do with KK's actions as night. The main thing was KingKitty making himself seem like a power role on Day 3, then there being no kill on night 3.
You're going to have to explain to me how a payout of 0.8HHA and 1.0Villager is better than any of the other payouts I mentioned. You might have to bend the laws of arithmetic to do so.Which is the best outcome? 1!.
The only vote for you when you caused all this was KK, no one else was really lookin at you.
KK and RNH. Maybe you should learn to count before you try making long-winded deductions? And if you think I wouldn't get more votes by staying silent you clearly have no idea how suspicions work in this game. We've been consistently evicting and pressuring people at the bottom of the list to get them to talk. Well, this is what happens when you pressure them. Like how we pressured franconp into roleclaiming Investigator when he wasn't even really under threat (whereas I was one vote away from being tied with Kingkitty). And hey, my role isn't even half as good as his is. If I was in his situation I would've tried to keep out of the limelight much harder.
Why would I think he's the lost partner? The assumption rested on the fact that:
1) Kalor detected activity on Night 3
2) KK was in his range
3) Flipping the traitor results in a no kill?
When you quote votes, for Karkador's sanity, break the highlight tags so that it doesn't show up as a false positive when he does a count.
I don't have to use arithmetic, just common sense. I already explained how you didn't have heat on you at the time so you assuming you would gain heat is stupid. Again this is BEFORE you made the post about King. You brought heat to yourself, which made me/squid/RNH question you.You're going to have to explain to me how a payout of 0.8HHA and 1.0Villager is better than any of the other payouts I mentioned. You might have to bend the laws of arithmetic to do so.
Which is the best outcome? 1!. Your logic or w/e that is at the bottom of the number makes no sense for 1. The only vote for you when you caused all this was KK, no one else was really lookin at you. Darryl even changed his vote off you. So you lost nothing and gained no heat from staying silent. Also your problem with 3b is that the night actions had basically nothing to do with why KK was a big suspect.
Let's say I roleclaim "something" or make up a defense for Kingkitty, and it doesn't hold water. I draw more suspicion to myself. The thing is, I know what alignment I am, Villager, but I don't know what alignment Kingkitty is. It's perfectly possible he's HHA. If I took the second eviction instead of KK, that's a 100% chance to falsely evict instead of a 80% chance to falsely evict. You see? I'm not going to concoct an elaborate defense just to justify my being unsuspicious of KK without drawing suspicion to myself. Which of you would be willing to do that?
I, personally, am not suspicious of kingkitty, but this is a gut feeling on my part. I would not vote for him, but I wouldn't go out of my way to defend him either.
1. Why are you trying to discredit me? Your putting a theory on me, that I barely even argued. The main part of my theory was he made himself a huge target on day 3. Which is why I said your role claim really didn't do much for my reasoning on King.If you don't think it's damaged your credibility,
Turned out to be Timmy, manager of Nookington's.Perfect village?
We have no shops...
Turned out to be Mayor.So according to my role, I get to make important decisions that will shape the fate of mankind...
Turned out to be Light SleeperHello! I am here, no sleeping through the first day for me this time.
Turned out to be a Gossip.You could always dig for fossils, I heard through the grapevine that you can sell them for a high price!
Turned out to be Timmy, manager of Nookington's.
Turned out to be Mayor.
Turned out to be Light Sleeper
Turned out to be a Gossip.
RNH had already requested an explanation from me. I have enough sense to know where the wind is blowing.Maybe you should learn to read and pay attention before you try and call someone out on counting. Before you made your post about defending KK, KK was the only vote for you. It wasn't until you said you didn't think KK was suspicious but were too lazy to defend him, that RNH voted on you, to force you to explain why you think KK is innocent.
It has to be either you or Haly?
I'd also like to say that it hasn't gone the other way either, which is just confusing. Haly, why haven't you been going in hard on KK?
See above.I already explained how you didn't have heat on you at the time so you assuming you would gain heat is stupid.
See above.staying silent
You couldve eaisly just said "gut feeling"
I don't agree with the heat on Kingkitty, that's all I have to say on this.
No one takes "gut feelings" seriously. Did you really think that's an adequate defense?I don't have anything substantial to say about kingkitty
And you said, in response:I'm not suspicious of KK, that's all. But I would have to do a lot of work I'm not willing to do to defend him and I'm not sure it would amount to anything. The thing is I don't have a better candidate in mind. if I defend Kingkitty, I need to propose someone else or else what's the point? Kingkitty rang a few alarm bells but not significantly more than anyone else (though less than some).
I agreed with this, and I felt like squidyj and RNH had a point, that it would be better all around if I came clean and cleared up any confusion that might've existed due to my silence, and the only convincing way I could do it is if I claimed.Being less talkative and holding stuff in doesn't help
2. Let's say you are commuter. That doesn't mean Kingkitty couldn't have gotten hit as well. Since Kalor/Toma specifically said they can't tell whether more than one action happens at night. So the possibility is still there that the mafia did get a flip on KK that night. Which makes uncalled for roleclaim still silly, even moreso on an even night phase.
you should reread my first post under the microscope and see if you can spot something
I thought something was weird with the newlines but I didn't look closely the first time. Anyway me right now:Hey guys, how's it going?
I don't mean to be a burden or anything but I sort of forgot to do all
my homework for school and there's a civics test coming up so I'm wondering if you can help me out with a cheat sheet.
All you have to do is write a post containing your role (if revealed) and it's action (if known), a short bit describing what you think you've done
for town, to push the town agenda and who your top 2 HHA and top 2 town are right now with a small justification for each.
I woul dreally appreciate it, I don't want to fail on my first day!
Anyways, thanks for your help guys.
RNH had already requested an explanation from me. I have enough sense to know where the wind is blowing.
For this voting phase? Yep, wouldve took gut feeling. And I also said that in response to you acting like you had some information that casted all doubt away from Kingkitty, which you didn't. It was just some uncalled for roleclaim.See above.
See above.
No one takes "gut feelings" seriously. Did you really think that's an adequate defense?
I said this:
And you said, in response:
Do you really feel that kingkitty was a more lucrative target than the Investigator? Really? This is the big inconsistency that you never adequately resolved, nor even addressed. Until you do, I cannot take your theory seriously.
At the time I thought "Well, there's an HHA there they want to use, so it wasn't the right moment to take out the roomies. They went for me instead and ran up against my ability."
shrug, sure. But whatever role I'm confirmed to be, I rather it not be outed in the thread.
If I happened to be picked by the investigator, I rather he just say "yeah he's a townie" and leave it at that.
if it's me instead of the investigator, I'm fine with that.
But after we learned about the Traitor, that became: "Oh, they must've tried to kill franconp and flipped the Traitor."
It just comes down to the fact that there is no way kingkitty was a better target that day than franconp. Franconp would have to be HHA for that to work, and with ultron's ability mirroring that of Hobohodo's, the chances of that are becoming less and less. Though it's still possible that franconp was the sleeper and his claim was a defense and a signal both, but that wouldn't explain ultron at all.
My point the traitors ability wouldn't save the other room mate. You are wrong about there being a sleeper agent in the roomies.
I pm'd Kark about it. He didn't state whether the lost partner's ability would count as a passive or action, but he did specifically state that any entered command must be performed on both roomies.
That said I find the lack of discussion surrounding Nin at this point in time to be suspect in and of itself, Razmos has said something even though I don't agree with the logic presented, Nin hasn't really said much of anything, I've made a point or two and made it clear that I believe he's the lost partner, that's all that's really happened with Nin. I've been really hoping to see more people chime in with reads on Nin or to hear Nin give some sort of defense or at least a response.
Sorry but its not me either. Since i still stand by claim that i am an ordinary villager.
If some I don't hear some good arguments, I'm inclined to think it's the latter, and then I will be looking at those people.