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[TyrantII]

While I think Berkeley can do better in finding movement conservatives to speak vs snake oil whores looking for a payday, I don't disagree with Maher here.

He's right about safe spaces at colleges and universities. There should be no comfort zones there, and debate should be the weapon of choice.

Maybe these "speaking" engagements need to be given away to actual discussion panels. I do find it wierd to have someone come and just drone on about retail politics from their point of view that's easily gotten from reading their works and watching their public persona.

 

[ModernBoxes]

A lot don't. He has a libertarian streak and says hateful things about Muslims.

For some reason I think I recall Ann and Bill being fuck buddies.

Hateful things? You know it's okay to criticize a religion right? Especially one that badly needs to be reformed. There's a massive distance between people who believe this and those who are simply anti-Muslim. Grouping the two together is ignorance and it's done frequently in these threads. Remember, many of us arguing are still liberals.

 

[fantomena]

I thought Gaf liked Bill?
At least that what it seemed like a few months ago.

The turn-on might have started happening when Maher endorsed Bernie even though he endorsed Hillary after Bernie lost and dropped out.

He said in an interview with some talk show host that he liked Bernie better than Hillary, but Hillary is still way better than any GOPper. He came up with the analogy that Hillary is the chicken/the second choice on the airplane and if you didn't get your first choice fish (Bernie), then pick the chicken (Hillary).

 

[Snowybreak]

.

Oh good, someone posted it.

 

[RangerX]

Regardless of how detestable a person she is, she should be allowed to speak. Chomsky put it well when he said If we don't have free speech for people we despise then we don't have it at all. No platforming people seems to go against the ethos of universities.

 

[ironcreed]

I cannot stand Ann Coulter. But I firmly believe in her right to speak because this is America and she is free to do so... or should be. I don't want to live in a society where people are shut down, ostracized and censored because another particular group of people or those in authority disagree with their opinions. Bill is right.

 

[Slayven]

Milo was actually very much brought down by having him on Joe Rogans podcast and have him spread his bullshit. He dug his own grave there.

Nope he was brought down by a libertarian from Canada mad he was speaking at CPAC

 

[NoblesseOblige]

So unlikely that I'm surprised not at all.

 

[Chumley]

Nope he was brought down by a libertarian from Canada mad he was speaking at CPAC

The words he spoke that brought him down were spoken on Joe Rogan's podcast.

 

[Plumbob]

Ann Coulter cannot literally be banned from campus. That's against the law.

What can happen is she is not permitted access to a room on campus. That's a very regular experience for students on campus.

Berkeley makes regular decisions about student group funding, room allocation, event space allocation, etc. for students literally there to receive an education. You have dance troups in parking lots because there aren't enough rooms for everyone.

Berkeley also has limited financial resources to spend on anything, period. Should they spend it on more instructors (so more students can take the classes they're interested in) or on spurious event security? 🤔

 

[Kinyou]

Nope he was brought down by a libertarian from Canada mad he was speaking at CPAC

And that wouldn't have been possible without him talking on the podcast, discussing his ideas.

 

[theCalamity]

Why would people willing to listen to her initiate any kind of violence?

Most likely through an escalation of protests and counterprotests with one thing leading to another and then you got violence. Someone throws a plastic bottle. Then someone throws a rock. And then a few cars get burned.

 

[Got]

.

like the reality of this matters to the ignorant word-spurters in here. don't you know, her free speech is being impinged upon.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Milo was actually very much brought down by having him on Joe Rogans podcast and have him spread his bullshit. He dug his own grave there.

Joe Rogan was as impotent against him as Maher and no, he didn't dig his own grave.

Weird how this narrative formed after his fall. He was on an upwards trajectory and spreading his bullshit on liberal platforms with no push back at all.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

The turn-on might have started happening when Maher endorsed Bernie even though he endorsed Hillary after Bernie lost and dropped out.

LOL

Yes, those of us who take issue with Maher did so because he originally snubbed our GAF Idol, Hillary "Golden Goddess" Clinton.

What the fuck IS this?

 

[starchild excalibur]

Wait people think Coulter got banned because she's a vile human being and not because the University didn't want violent protests?

Huh.

If a speech may result in violent protests then the correct response should be to take steps to minimize or stop the violent protests and not simply to disallow the speech. Unless the speech is purely to incite said violence. If Obama was to hold a speech at an ultra-conservative campus I'd think it's just as bullshit for them to cancel his speech instead of taking the correct steps to ensure the safety of the campus while still allowing him to speak.

Ann Coulter is a piece of shit and yeah, under the First Amendment she's not entitled to speak anywhere she wants. But using the above argument is a slippery slope.

 

[Chumley]

How can you 'like someone as a person' when they consistently spout vile, evil nonsense? He talks about her like they simply have differing views on tax reform.

He's 60, stoned all the time, and likely sees her as a performance artist even though that's bullshit. That's about the only way I can make sense of it.

I like Maher a lot but his friendship with Coulter has always been the hardest thing to understand about him, it's why people have said for years she must have some blackmail.

 

[Snowybreak]

Ann Coulter cannot literally be banned from campus. That's against the law.

What can happen is she is not permitted access to a room on campus. That's a very regular experience for students on campus.

Berkeley makes regular decisions about student group funding, room allocation, event space allocation, etc. for students literally there to receive an education. You have dance troups in parking lots because there aren't enough rooms for everyone.

Berkeley also has limited financial resources to spend on anything, period. Should they spend it on more instructors (so more students can take the classes they're interested in) or on spurious event security? 🤔

Actually, that's a really good point about the security. Volatile speakers can cause anger and resentment, as well as protests, leading to a dangerous situation. So if someone might be considered dangerous in their rhetoric, there's a chance the school might just not want to pay for the bullshit.

 

[Einchy]

The turn-on might have started happening when Maher endorsed Bernie even though he endorsed Hillary after Bernie lost and dropped out.

I'm an OG Bill Maher hater, hated that fuck ever since he did that Religion movie, even as an edgy Atheist teen, I realized he was a smug prick.

And then he did this.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Milo was actually very much brought down by having him on Joe Rogans podcast and have him spread his bullshit. He dug his own grave there.

Because by random luck he turned out to be pro sex with underage people... can't really rely on that.

 

[benicillin]

I cannot stand Ann Coulter. But I firmly believe in her right to speak because this is America and she is free to do so... or should be. I don't want to live in a society where people are shut down, ostracized and censored because another particular group of people or those in authority disagree with their opinions. Bill is right.

Unless those people are minorities, LGBTQ, etc. Because hate, racism, sexism, etc is all just an opinion man.

 

[Kinyou]

Joe Rogan was as impotent against him as Maher and no, he didn't dig his own grave.

Weird how this narrative formed after his fall. He was on an upwards trajectory and spreading his bullshit on liberal platforms with no push back at all.

How did he not dig his own grave when it were his own words that broke his neck? It only took someone to actually highlight it

 

[jack_package_200]

The turn-on might have started happening when Maher endorsed Bernie even though he endorsed Hillary after Bernie lost and dropped out.

He said in an interview with some talk show host that he liked Bernie better than Hillary, but Hillary is still way better than any GOPper. He came up with the analogy that Hillary is the chicken/the second choice on the airplane and if you didn't get your first choice fish (Bernie), then pick the chicken (Hillary).

Why the fuck do you people always try to turn every fucking thread into Hillary vs Bernie bullshit?

 

[fantomena]

LOL

Yes, those of us who take issue with Maher did so because he originally snubbed our GAF Idol, Hillary "Golden Goddess" Clinton.

What the fuck IS this?

Read "might". Never said it did happen there.

Why the fuck do you people always try to turn every fucking thread into Hillary vs Bernie bullshit?

It was not my intention to do a Bernie vs. Hillary thing. I replied to a post questioning when GAF turned on Bill. I wrote a post saying it "might" have been when Bill endorsed Bernie. Might.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

How can you 'like someone as a person' when they consistently spout vile, evil nonsense? He talks about her like they simply have differing views on tax reform.

It's as nonsensical as it gets.

"Her opinions and beliefs are reprehensible, and I disagree with every single one of them. Hell, she probably believes in things 10 times worse than just about anyone in the Trump administration. So, with that out the way, here's why you should leave my friend Ann Coulter alone..."

 

[Slayven]

The fact people call Homophobia, Transpohobia, Racism, misogyny , and just general bigotry "opinions" and "the other side". Shows how much this bullshit is given a pass

 

[TTOOLL]

Most likely through an escalation of protests and counterprotests with one thing leading to another and then you got violence. Someone throws a plastic bottle. Then someone throws a rock. And then a few cars get burned.

So, if I don't agree with a speaker, though many people do, I must go there, protest and risk some kind of riot? Can't I just respect them?

The fact people call Homophobia, Transpohobia, Racism, misogyny , and just general bigotry "opinions" and "the other side". Shows how much this bullshit is given a pass

The content of her speech is not the issue here, if you consider all she says is bigotry that's another problem.
We're talking about her right to go to a campus and talk to people who want to listen to her, nobody is being forced to do so.

 

[Trago]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're being naive.

What, exactly, do you think has been happening over the entirety of our political discourse?

Why do you think Coulter's views are legitimate enough to be included in any sort of conversation?

Why do you feel that Coulter is entitled to a platform?

You're probably right.

I disagree with Coulter's views and find them stupid in my opinion, however shutting her down from speaking publicly will help what exactly?

 

[Puck Beaverton]

So, if I don't agree with a speaker, though many people do, I must go there, protest and risk some kind of riot? Can't I just respect them?

Respect Ann Coulter? No, throw a rock at her.

 

[Einchy]

The fact people call Homophobia, Transpohobia, Racism, misogyny , and just general bigotry "opinions" and "the other side". Shows how much this bullshit is given a pass

I'm not sure how many times I saw people say this shit when the JonTron thing happened.

 

[theCalamity]

So, if I don't agree with a speaker, though many people do, I must go there, protest and risk some kind of riot? Can't I just respect them?

I'm not saying you must go there. I'm just saying that they probably don't want a repeat of what happened with Milo a few months back.

 

[jchap]

It would be much more effective just to ignore.

 

[fantomena]

Respect Ann Coulter? No, throw a rock at her.

You want to physically hurt her?

 

[Aztechnology]

Ann Coulter did not come to have a discussion, she came for self-promotion.

Because one of the most beneficial reasons you go to a University is to have your preconceptions and beliefs challenged. To take you from a sheltered space (One with an often singular viewpoints at least), to one where people of all different beliefs are able to discuss those beliefs in a place where people are actually hopefully smart enough not to react in a volatile fashion when they disagree but instead internalize it and think critically about the information. Disect, build upon or dismantle etc. Who am I to say that someone will not extract any value whether in a negative or positive sense from someone like Coulter? Are we saying that anything she says inherently cannot hold any value because we disagree with her viewpoints generally?

 

[2Smashed4U]

Not for nazis.

Ann Coulter isn't a Nazi. She's a despicable racist piece of human garbage, but she isn't a Nazi.

Let's not do the "every awful person is a Nazi" shit, it detracts from those who legitimately are.

 

[TTOOLL]

Respect Ann Coulter? No, throw a rock at her.

So, this kind of thought is acceptable now? Stoning? Really?

 

[dead souls]

Bill Maher is terrible, so of course he would defend Coulter. He's an anti-vaxxer, anti-GMO, Islamophobic loon.

The man is just plain ignorant about so many things and he demonstrates it on his show every single week.

 

[RPGCrazied]

So, this kind of thought is acceptable now? Stoning? Really?

Trump wants to punch people in the face and have them leave on stretchers like the good old days.

 

[B-Dubs]

What part of this is unlikely? He gave fucking Milo a platform then proceeded to suck him off, if anything this is expected.

 

[lightskintwin]

I'm going to have to agree with Bill Maher on this. Although I see the Berkeley already extended an invitation for Ann to speak at a later date.

 

[BlastProcessing]

If a speech may result in violent protests then the correct response should be to take steps to minimize or stop the violent protests and not simply to disallow the speech. Unless the speech is purely to incite said violence. If Obama was to hold a speech at an ultra-conservative campus I'd think it's just as bullshit for them to cancel his speech instead of taking the correct steps to ensure the safety of the campus while still allowing him to speak.

Ann Coulter is a piece of shit and yeah, under the First Amendment she's not entitled to speak anywhere she wants. But using the above argument is a slippery slope.

If we use a slippery slope argument for this, what else will we use a slippery slope argument on in the future? Slippery slope arguments are a slippery slope.

Instead of arguing about how a hypothetical event will be hypothetically interpreted to effect other, even more hypothetical events, why don't we talk about the actual case at hand.

Does an organization have a right to control who it invites to speak at it and what security costs they endure? Does Free Speech mean that Berkley doesn't get autonomy over it's own affairs? Does the right to Free Speech create a moral or legal obligation to listen?

 

[benicillin]

Because one of the most beneficial reasons you go to a University is to have your preconceptions and beliefs challenged. To take you from a sheltered space (One with an often singular viewpoints at least), to one where people of all different beliefs are able to discuss those beliefs in a place where people are actually hopefully smart enough not to react in a volatile fashion when they disagree. Who am I to say that someone will not extract any value whether in a negative or positive sense from someone like Coulter? Are we saying that anything she says inherently cannot hold any value because we disagree with her viewpoints generally?

No we're saying that the general public has been exposed to her "viewpoints" on a mass scale across the country for years now and she's proven to be nothing but garbage. If she wants to be heard she can literally go on the most popular news channel in America whenever she wants. I don't see why any student has to pay tuition to invite her to their campus.

 

[ModernBoxes]

Because one of the most beneficial reasons you go to a University is to have your preconceptions and beliefs challenged. To take you from a sheltered space (One with an often singular viewpoints at least), to one where people of all different beliefs are able to discuss those beliefs in a place where people are actually hopefully smart enough not to react in a volatile fashion when they disagree. Who am I to say that someone will not extract any value whether in a negative or positive sense from someone like Coulter? Are we saying that anything she says inherently cannot hold any value because we disagree with her viewpoints generally?

Exactly.

If you create an environment where the aggressive protestors shape discourse you are shaping a highly censored society that will veer down a narrowing path until you too are on the "outside" seen as the provocative speaker.

No one is demanding we agree with Coulter, but she should be able​ to speak without getting shut down with threats.

 

[Brandon F]

How is it unlikely? They've been friends for ages and Bill has been pretty pro free speech for since Politically Incorrect..

Lifelong Democrat and former Clinton Cabinet member Robert Reich is also for Ann Coulter speaking at Berkeley.

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/04/robert-reich-ann-coulter-should-be-allowed-to-speak-at-uc-berkeley/

To be honest, I don't think the ban is because of Ann Coulter's views, however asinine they are. It's more to due to prevent another huge protest.

Is free speech partisan now?

I wouldn't shed a tear if she got hit by a truck tomorrow, but she should be able to say whatever dumb bullshit she has to say.

This and this. You can't really be for free speech if you are merely cherry-picking what you want to hear. Granted, Coulter spews vile, but there needs to be a better response to counter her viewpoints than violence and rioting.

 

[fantomena]

Trump wants to punch people in the face and have them leave on stretches like the good old days.

That's Trump. Don't be like Trump.

 

[2Smashed4U]

Free Speech is the government can't come in and shut you down. The University canceled it.

Under threat of violence. Berkeley could not have shut it down otherwise.

I'm all for wiping that shit out wherever legally possible - but she is entitled to free speech on a public campus. That's all there is to it. It very much is covered by the first amendment and free speech laws.

 

[Chumley]

Bill Maher is terrible, so of course he would defend Coulter. He's an anti-vaxxer, anti-GMO, Islamophobic loon.

The man is just plain ignorant about so many things and he demonstrates it on his show every single week.

He's not defending Ann Coulter, he's saying that Colleges need to stop blocking speech from people they don't like. His point is that it just further cements people into bubbles by not engaging with others, no matter how abhorrent they are.

 

[entremet]

No we're saying that the general public has been exposed to her "viewpoints" on a mass scale across the country for years now and she's proven to be nothing but garbage. If she wants to be heard she can literally go on the most popular news channel in America whenever she wants. I don't see why any student has to pay tuition to invite her to their campus.

It's not only open to students and the funds are covered by student groups. They're not funded by the university.

 

[ironcreed]

Unless those people are minorities, LGBTQ, etc. Because hate, racism, sexism, etc is all just an opinion man.

Where did I imply anything of the sort? I said in America everyone should be able to stand up, speak their mind and have their views without a group of pretentious snobs trying to shut them down because they disagree and even resort to violence because they are so intolerant of anything outside of their world view. It's sad and is not what America is all about.

 

[wandering]

The words he spoke that brought him down were spoken on Joe Rogan's podcast.

And that wouldn't have been possible without him talking on the podcast, discussing his ideas.

Didn't it take literal pedophile apologia for the "free market of ideas" to take effect? All the other vile bigotry he spewed and harassment of individual people didn't stymy his rise. Are we all just going to hope that every bad character trips up in the same way?