Support NeoGAF

[Fusebox]

Hey guys, does anyone have the gif of the GAFfer firing a Barrett (it might have been MetalAlienn?) from a tripod with a slow-motion of the shockwave spreading out?

 

[MetalAlien]

One of these right?

 

[Fusebox]

Yep, it was the top one! Thanks so much man.

Damn I'd love to fire one those...

 

[shadyspace]

What would be your recommendation for a first time gun owner living on his own? Hand gun obviously. I've heard good things about glocks.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Transfer went great, really nice guy to deal with.I'm pretty happy that via the manual and YouTube I was able to field strip and reassembly the gun and do barrel swaps. This bodes well for the future. one need thing was the shop we did the transfer at did on site mass bullet reloading, it was pretty cool to see.

I may be able to try tomorrow, but if not I will on Sunday. I'll also get to test a Saiga

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Oh man is 357 sig a joy to fire. Really like the handling of the gun. I'll post some pics of my targets a little later.

.40 S&W was okay, but I only did a few shots.

Collected all of my brass, no clue what to do with it though. Man I went through that .357 sig box fast as hell.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Was just able to score a bran new 9mm luger barrel for $55 shipped and a mag for 29 shipped (yeah former is the better price). Now I'm going to take advantage of some of the bulk ammo deals online for 9mm for Russian Steel (which despite a first time double feed error worked fine the whole time) is dirt dirt dirt cheap (8.25 a box of 50 rounds). I'm hoping to stock up to avoid the high prices and shortages that are bound to occur in 2012 due to "2012" and "election" related stupidity buying by a small, but cash heavy numbers.

For people here looking for ammo prices online check out
gun-deals.com and ammo seek I've had a lot of success with them.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

So after work I go to the range, I'm talking with a guy I mention I'd loved to get a Mosin Nagant, and he goes oh you want one it's taking up space in my safe. That began the conversation that lead to me getting a free M38 Mosin Nagant, extra stock, case, manual, and a ton of Czech/Soviet Ammo for free! Best part is with long guns in PA you don't need to do a transfer.

Now I do need to make sure I clean it each time and be prepared for any ammo jams, but I'm just so amazed how easy it is to break down. Just two screws hold it together. Best part is I put the mag and bolt in my locker and I can keep the barrel and furniture in my closet and the worst thing that could happen is it slides and hits someones foot.

I think my next step will either be a cheap AK or getting a piecemeal AR-15.

Still talk about a stroke of good luck!

 

[Dead Man]

Nuggets are a peasants weapon, and I don't mean that as an insult. Simple, simple, and simple. Good work snagging one for free.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Building your own AR is much cheaper than buying a complete one.

You want to get yourself a U.S. Marine Corps Rifle, 5.56MM, M16A2 Technical Manual

Here's a pdf. http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/TM9-1005-319-10.pdf

Everything you need to know about how to clean, maintain and assemble an AR.

 

[jiien]

I'm going to the range for the first time Friday with a friend. I hope to try out different calibers, and decide which pistol would be a good first fit for me.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Nuggets are a peasants weapon, and I don't mean that as an insult. Simple, simple, and simple. Good work snagging one for free.

Thanks. Yeah, I really love the simplicity of it. It's a great learning tool. I'm just so happy I didn't have to pay a transfer fee like I would have had if I got it say from Aim Surplus (unless I had a C&R licence). I was getting close to wanting to get one. I do need to find a good cleaning kit though. I've been told you need to pretty much dump boiling hot water (with soap) down it after use, because of the corrosive ammo. Luckily I can just breakdown the barrel, stick it in the grass outside and dump the water. Since it's only the barrel people don't see a rifle and won't get freaked out. Well that's my hope at least! lol

Building your own AR is much cheaper than buying a complete one.

You want to get yourself a U.S. Marine Corps Rifle, 5.56MM, M16A2 Technical Manual

Here's a pdf. http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/TM9-1005-319-10.pdf

Everything you need to know about how to clean, maintain and assemble an AR.

Thanks! It will make some nice reading on the commute! I also figure with piecemeal it's a far easier expense to shoulder after getting a kid. I'm not getting a $700-$1200 weapon at once, it's spread over a half a year or so, and as I said to my wife, unlike a computer, parts don't go obsolete after 6 months like a graphics card. lol

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Yeah, I sold my AR. But I want to build a new one.

If I do, I'd have to keep it at a friend's place.

Chicago isn't friendly to the whole assault rifle business. And for good reason.

I'd like to get a HK 416 upper and lower. But so expensive.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Yeah, I sold my AR. But I want to build a new one.

If I do, I'd have to keep it at a friend's place.

Chicago isn't friendly to the whole assault rifle business. And for good reason.

I've been on bulk ammo sites recently and man Illinois is impossible to get anything sent too. It's funny though how it's by county and so all over the place.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I've been on bulk ammo sites recently and man Illinois is impossible to get anything sent too. It's funny though how it's by county and so all over the place.

well, one reason is rilfe hunting is illegal in IL.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

well, one reason is rilfe hunting is illegal in IL.

What a joke.

Oh AMAZON sells UPPER RECEIVERS!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref...Ar+15+upp&rh=n:3375251,k:ar+15+upper+receiver

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002E6WSWG/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

What a joke.

Oh AMAZON sells UPPER RECEIVERS!

Well, Illinois is kinda flat. You miss with a high powered rifle. Rounds sails across farmland and hits something/someone. I get it.

Man buying a civvie version of the HK 416 is $3K. Buying just the upper in 14.5" is $2K.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Well, Illinois is kinda flat. You miss with a high powered rifle. Rounds sails across farmland and hits something/someone. I get it.

Yeah, but that's why you limit areas open to hunting. I mean there isn't anywhere in Illinois where you could hunt with a rifle and not present a danger?

Man buying a civvie version of the HK 416 is $3K. Buying just the upper in 14.5" is $2K.

That's why I intend to go cheap as crap for a first build...well that or I just get an AK-47.

I think with Rifle storage one thing with some rifles is how you can essentially make it furniture, and store the vital parts in a handgun or regular safe with no effort.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Yeah, but that's why you limit areas open to hunting. I mean there isn't anywhere in Illinois where you could hunt with a rifle and not present a danger?

Yeah, in high fenced facilities that have pen raised deer. Because the State of Illinois doesn't recognize that as hunting. And honestly, I find the idea of walking into an enclosed area shooting pen-raised deer distasteful.

 

[Dahellisdat]

Yeah, in high fenced facilities that have pen raised deer. Because the State of Illinois doesn't recognize that as hunting. And honestly, I find the idea of walking into an enclosed area shooting pen-raised deer distasteful.

Come join us in Missouri. The deer are plentiful and im pretty sure we allow almost any type of hunting here at some point during the year. (And we have some good baseball too)

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Yeah, in high fenced facilities that have pen raised deer. Because the State of Illinois doesn't recognize that as hunting. And honestly, I find the idea of walking into an enclosed area shooting pen-raised deer distasteful.

You'll get no disagreement from me on that.

 

[dubc35]

I grew up in IL. When I moved out to WA I was surprised how easy it was to get firearms (no FOID card, concealed permits, etc).

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Come join us in Missouri. The deer are plentiful and im pretty sure we allow almost any type of hunting here at some point during the year. (And we have some good baseball too)

You have no idea how much it overjoyed me to see the Cards win.

So much schadenfruede.

 

[Dahellisdat]

I grew up in IL. When I moved out to WA I was surprised how easy it was to get firearms (no FOID card, concealed permits, etc).

I believe its a lot easier to get them in Missouri as well. When I was checking out in line to buy my first shotgun, there was a dude from Illinois in line in front of me who was not happy at all because of some kind of waiting period he had to go through that prevented him from taking the gun home that day after he'd driven all the way over from Illinois.

You have no idea how much it overjoyed me to see the Cards win.

So much schadenfruede.

Haha....I take it you're not a Cubs fan?

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Haha....I take it you're not a Cubs fan?

Hell no.

I live like a mile from Wrigleyville. I don't have an issue with the team, just the fans. At least the ones I know are so...I dunno. Its a painful, horrible, deluded cycle I've witnessed.

My favorite teams right now are doing horribly. University of Colorado and the Denver Broncos. But I'm ok with that and I'm honest about it. Cubs fans seems kind of arrogant about their suck.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Back to AR-15s for a sec...

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/PlumCrazy_C_15_Composite_Lower_p/pc-lowerassembly.htm

http://www.surplusammo.com/products/*Surplus-Ammo-&-Arms-AR15-Lower-Complete-with-Stock.html

Are those really complete lowers, you just need the upper receiver (and mag and ammo) to work, and for that cheap? Hell, as long as it shoots and won't blow up in my face I'd be fine with

Hmm, I wonder if anyone on the AR-15 board will trade an old receiver they no longer need for Gamestop credit. Even better if in PA, it's a long gun and requires no FFL nonsense.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Back to AR-15s for a sec...

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/PlumCrazy_C_15_Composite_Lower_p/pc-lowerassembly.htm

http://www.surplusammo.com/products/*Surplus-Ammo-&-Arms-AR15-Lower-Complete-with-Stock.html

Are those really complete lowers, you just need the upper receiver (and mag and ammo) to work, and for that cheap? Hell, as long as it shoots and won't blow up in my face I'd be fine with

Hmm, I wonder if anyone on the AR-15 board will trade an old receiver they no longer need for Gamestop credit. Even better if in PA, it's a long gun and requires no FFL nonsense.

I know the Surplus Ammo lowers are made mby Aero Precision. I remember running int one and wondering if Olympic Arms were the manufacturers.

 

[alphaNoid]

For someone who has never owned a gun but is interested in (one day) getting trained on, target shooting and eventually buying a pistol. Which would you say is the better gun and why?

I have looked primarily at 9mm pistols, mainly the Glock 19 and the Sig P226. Both seem great to me, the Glock is cheaper which is nice and many seem to incline is the better pistol. However, it seems Sig folk are hung up on the fact that most all qualities of the P226 are superior to the Glock 19. I get that there are different models like the Glock 17, 26 etc.. but I was thinking the 19 and the P226 were closely comparable?

Anyways I"m not on the verge of buying but just mildly interested and have started some light research. Glock or Sig? Or ... something else?

 

[Lionheart1827]

For someone who has never owned a gun but is interested in (one day) getting trained on, target shooting and eventually buying a pistol. Which would you say is the better gun and why?

I have looked primarily at 9mm pistols, mainly the Glock 19 and the Sig P226. Both seem great to me, the Glock is cheaper which is nice and many seem to incline is the better pistol. However, it seems Sig folk are hung up on the fact that most all qualities of the P226 are superior to the Glock 19. I get that there are different models like the Glock 17, 26 etc.. but I was thinking the 19 and the P226 were closely comparable?

Anyways I"m not on the verge of buying but just mildly interested and have started some light research. Glock or Sig? Or ... something else?

The Glock is extremely reliable and its easy to take apart and clean as well. I'm not too sure on the Sig, I know they make good firearms, but I'm not sure if quality control is up to Glocks. Glocks are kinda like the Honda Civic of firearms, they aren't particularly beautiful to look at, but they last and are reliable.

BTW, I think the Sig has single action so the trigger pull will be lighter. The Glock has the dual stage trigger so it takes more pounds of pressure to fire off each round. That comes down to your comfort level. If you can test the trigger pull at a gun shop, do that and get a feel for it. There is also no traditional safety on a Glock. The dual stage trigger is the safety.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I know the Surplus Ammo lowers are made mby Aero Precision. I remember running int one and wondering if Olympic Arms were the manufacturers.

But I mean, that's the complete lower though? It's not like buy this and it's missing 200-400 dollars worth of stuff though.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

You can't really go wrong with either.

Both are full sized service pistols.

It's preference. Glocks might look too Lego/Generic and P226's look sexier?

The Sigs are DA/SA, so the first trigger pull will be long. And then preference between decocker and trigger safety.

I guess Sig has the DAK trigger, but I dunno anything about it. It's some weird hybrid with an intermediate trigger position..

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

But I mean, that's the complete lower though? It's not like buy this and it's missing 200-400 dollars worth of stuff though.

Yeah, that's the complete lower.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

For someone who has never owned a gun but is interested in (one day) getting trained on, target shooting and eventually buying a pistol. Which would you say is the better gun and why?

I have looked primarily at 9mm pistols, mainly the Glock 19 and the Sig P226. Both seem great to me, the Glock is cheaper which is nice and many seem to incline is the better pistol. However, it seems Sig folk are hung up on the fact that most all qualities of the P226 are superior to the Glock 19. I get that there are different models like the Glock 17, 26 etc.. but I was thinking the 19 and the P226 were closely comparable?

Anyways I"m not on the verge of buying but just mildly interested and have started some light research. Glock or Sig? Or ... something else?

I'm very very happy with my S&W M&P, keep in mind you can pretty much get a 40 and make it a 357 sig, with a new barrel and unofficially 9mm with a new stock barrel and mag. It's a great value and I haven't had any issues with it yet. It takes cheap Russian steel ammo and just fires along happily.

Yeah, that's the complete lower.

Damn that's cheap. Hell even just putting A+B together (as opposed to an actual build) I can get one for 400 or under. I am just mind blown that that's possible.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Damn that's cheap. Hell even just putting A+B together (as opposed to an actual build) I can get one for 400 or under. I am just mind blown that that's possible.

You say that now.

Then you start looking at ACOG sights.

 

[alphaNoid]

The Glock is extremely reliable and its easy to take apart and clean as well. I'm not too sure on the Sig, I know they make good firearms, but I'm not sure if quality control is up to Glocks. Glocks are kinda like the Honda Civic of firearms, they aren't particularly beautiful to look at, but they last and are reliable.

BTW, I think the Sig has single action so the trigger pull will be lighter. The Glock has the dual stage trigger so it takes more pounds of pressure to fire off each round. That comes down to your comfort level. If you can test the trigger pull at a gun shop, do that and get a feel for it. There is also no traditional safety on a Glock. The dual stage trigger is the safety.

I'm very very happy with my S&W M&P, keep in mind you can pretty much get a 40 and make it a 357 sig, with a new barrel and unofficially 9mm with a new stock barrel and mag. It's a great value and I haven't had any issues with it yet. It takes cheap Russian steel ammo and just fires along happily.

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'm leaning towards a Glock 19, unless a 17 just feels better in my hand. This could be a year or so but I'm starting to poke around, and read.

Much appreciated.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

First off if you shoot .40 S&W Dicks was selling Wolf 50 for $5.95, It was 7 something on the rack (and the guy who gave it too me didn't know), but at the register it was $5.95. I bought 250 rounds for 31 bucks! I then proceed to fire off a 100 at the range lol.

Oh any recs for Personal Defense Ammo in .357 sig, .40 S&W and 9mm?

You say that now.

Then you start looking at ACOG sights.

Well like I said you can build on it later.

I know I'm going to need to find some cheap ass rifle storage now. Granted I'm still going to keep them "inert" when at home. This is more so they just are sitting around my closet...with all the ammo and Russian surplus stuff, which my wife loves. lol

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'm leaning towards a Glock 19, unless a 17 just feels better in my hand. This could be a year or so but I'm starting to poke around, and read.

Much appreciated.

Sure thing. I had a chance to fire one recently. The Glock 19 is nice, but meh I'm just not crazy about Glocks, but I suspect that's down to personal dislikes over polymer. The M&P is also polymer, but has a stainless steel slide.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Picking it up tonight.

Only paying 300. Rock Island Armory GI

 

[Luixfern]

Picking it up tonight.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9659/img2017iy.jpg

Only paying 300. Rock Island Armory GI

Damn for 3 bills id jump on that too.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Damn for 3 bills id jump on that too.

3 other people also did according to the seller, but I got there first.

PAFOA classifed/market place section of their message board is a Goldmine for deals.

 

[Lionheart1827]

Picking it up tonight.

Only paying 300. Rock Island Armory GI

Ohh mama. Good choice

Hope you enjoy it! Range report asap.

Love the grooved grips, aftermarket or stock?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Ohh mama. Good choice

Hope you enjoy it! Range report asap.

Thanks!

I'll be testing it out either Tuesday or at the latest Friday (with lawblob), I'm looking also to get parkerized grips with side having the USMC anchor logo and the other side with the Third Marine Divsion emblmem as a gift for him.

Nice thing in PA you can transfer any handgun between parent and child (and some other exceptions) with no need for a trasnfer or anything. In a sense it's kind of a gift for him. I'm just waiting till I sell my old laptop ad some other things first so I can assure him it was a cash neutral purchase.

Also getting him this.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004G01D6A/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Edit grove was an aftermarket thing I got for free! Its nice but I did swap back to stock for the moment as I love the original look, I might switch back when shooting.

 

[fastford58]

So after work I go to the range, I'm talking with a guy I mention I'd loved to get a Mosin Nagant, and he goes oh you want one it's taking up space in my safe. That began the conversation that lead to me getting a free M38 Mosin Nagant, extra stock, case, manual, and a ton of Czech/Soviet Ammo for free! Best part is with long guns in PA you don't need to do a transfer.

Now I do need to make sure I clean it each time and be prepared for any ammo jams, but I'm just so amazed how easy it is to break down. Just two screws hold it together. Best part is I put the mag and bolt in my locker and I can keep the barrel and furniture in my closet and the worst thing that could happen is it slides and hits someones foot.

I think my next step will either be a cheap AK or getting a piecemeal AR-15.

Still talk about a stroke of good luck!

I've been firing a bunch of milsurp czech 7.62x39 lately. Nice and cheap, but you have to clean the rifle a little more than usual due to the salt in the primers. Nothing a boiling pot of water, some dish soap, and an air compressor doesn't fix.

I just had a full size 2 tone USP in .45 shipped out to me. Looking forward to getting that.

As some of you may be aware, the long gun registry here in Canada is on the verge of being abolished. In celebration, I am going to pick up a Ruger Mini-14 on the day the LGR goes into the crapper just to send a big F-you to the gun grabbers we have up here (that particular rifle is implicated in a notorious crime up here and the main reason our laws are f'd up, if you care to research it).

I'm also toying with the idea of picking up an M&P 40 or a CZ75 or SP01...I'll probably go with the 40 just because I don't have that calibre yet.

 

[Lionheart1827]

Thanks!

I'll be testing it out either Tuesday or at the latest Friday (with lawblob), I'm looking also to get parkerized grips with side having the USMC anchor logo and the other side with the Third Marine Divsion emblmem as a gift for him.

Nice thing in PA you can transfer any handgun between parent and child (and some other exceptions) with no need for a trasnfer or anything. In a sense it's kind of a gift for him. I'm just waiting till I sell my old laptop ad some other things first so I can assure him it was a cash neutral purchase.

Also getting him this.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004G01D6A/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Edit grove was an aftermarket thing I got for free! Its nice but I did swap back to stock for the moment as I love the original look, I might switch back when shooting.

Awesome! I hope you enjoy it! There isn't quite anything like a 1911.

 

[DoomGyver]

'

I bought a 4" 617 two months ago (not my photo but looks exactly like it)

Had to send it in for repair due to a high spot in the barrel, S&W swapped out the barrel, gave it a very nice trigger job, and gave it a semi-high polish for free. It's very accurate, just about as good as my stock ruger 10/22. Horrible accuracy with some ammo, but surprisingly it likes the cheap bulk pack federals and Winchester value boxes.

Now I have to purchase a 686+ to go along with it

 

[MisterNoisy]

For someone who has never owned a gun but is interested in (one day) getting trained on, target shooting and eventually buying a pistol. Which would you say is the better gun and why?

I have looked primarily at 9mm pistols, mainly the Glock 19 and the Sig P226. Both seem great to me, the Glock is cheaper which is nice and many seem to incline is the better pistol. However, it seems Sig folk are hung up on the fact that most all qualities of the P226 are superior to the Glock 19. I get that there are different models like the Glock 17, 26 etc.. but I was thinking the 19 and the P226 were closely comparable?

Anyways I"m not on the verge of buying but just mildly interested and have started some light research. Glock or Sig? Or ... something else?

If you're looking at 9mm handguns, you may wish to also check out the CZ-75B - it's an outstanding service-type pistol as well. Super accurate, the best in-hand 'feel' of anything I've ever held and it's built like a tank, plus there's a .22LR conversion kit readily available for cheap practice.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Awesome! I hope you enjoy it! There isn't quite anything like a 1911.

Thanks and no, there isn't anything that matches style, quality, and being pretty much perfect since it was first made like the 1911.

I've been firing a bunch of milsurp czech 7.62x39 lately. Nice and cheap, but you have to clean the rifle a little more than usual due to the salt in the primers. Nothing a boiling pot of water, some dish soap, and an air compressor doesn't fix.

I just had a full size 2 tone USP in .45 shipped out to me. Looking forward to getting that.

As some of you may be aware, the long gun registry here in Canada is on the verge of being abolished. In celebration, I am going to pick up a Ruger Mini-14 on the day the LGR goes into the crapper just to send a big F-you to the gun grabbers we have up here (that particular rifle is implicated in a notorious crime up here and the main reason our laws are f'd up, if you care to research it).

I'm also toying with the idea of picking up an M&P 40 or a CZ75 or SP01...I'll probably go with the 40 just because I don't have that calibre yet.

M&P is great since you can officially make it 357sig and unofficially 9mm with just a barrel swap (and mag for the 9mm).

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Had a lot of fun shooting with lawblob last Friday. We got to shoot clay pigeons and use the Nagant at an outdoor range, and others at an indoor range. My shotgunning skills...need some work lol We also got a chance to break out the AK-47. Man that gun is so simple it can be used by anyone...which is why I think it's junk. It's really designed so everyone and their mother can use it...which in turn lowers the quality of the gun, since it's made for the lowest common skill denominator to spray automatic fire everywhere.

 

[andycapps]

Had a lot of fun shooting with lawblob last Friday. We got to shoot clay pigeons and use the Nagant at an outdoor range, and others at an indoor range. My shotgunning skills...need some work lol We also got a chance to break out the AK-47. Man that gun is so simple it can be used by anyone...which is why I think it's junk. It's really designed so everyone and their mother can use it...which in turn lowers the quality of the gun, since it's made for the lowest common skill denominator to spray automatic fire everywhere.

I shot an AK-47 a while back and loved how smooth it was. Low recoil and seemed very accurate. Obviously I'm talking about semi-auto. Clearly if one shot it in full auto it's pretty inaccurate except in short bursts.

 

[alphaNoid]

Picking it up tonight.

Only paying 300. Rock Island Armory GI

I stopped looking at 9mm and am now 100% focused on a 1911. I LOVE the price point of the RIA 1911s .. but how is the fit and finish? I look at Kimbers and are they really work 4 times the price?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I stopped looking at 9mm and am now 100% focused on a 1911. I LOVE the price point of the RIA 1911s .. but how is the fit and finish? I look at Kimbers and are they really work 4 times the price?

I can't comment on a Kimber personally. I like to joke that for the Don Wilson and Kimber prices the gun should also preform Oral Sex on you afterwords.

The RIA fit was great even with the standard stock grips. Accuracy, even shooting Russian steel, was great too. The finish job is really well done, it doesn't feel or look like it's a "bargain" 1911.

I shot an AK-47 a while back and loved how smooth it was. Low recoil and seemed very accurate. Obviously I'm talking about semi-auto. Clearly if one shot it in full auto it's pretty inaccurate except in short bursts.

One I shoot was a semi too. I just didn't like the recoil. Perhaps once I get a chance to shoot an AR I can compare the two better. Perhaps it's because it was a first time and on a second time I'd enjoy it better. Gun got hot really quick though.