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[The Artisan]

This comment makes it sound like your problem is that it's not like this years old rumor. Are you saying it would have made more sense for Infinity WAR to happen before Civil WAR? If so, why?

Not necessarily. It just would have made more sense for the Civil War to be grander in scale than it was on film.

lol no

are you sure?

Have you even read it?

never had the chance

For the Civil War to be meaningful there needs to be some instances of that being applied. Lots of movies have "A plot/B plot".

it was meaningful the way it happened, but it could've gone down differently if there wasn't an important B plot going on

 

[Glass Rebel]

never had the chance

Then why are you making all these claims about it?

 

[Soapbox Killer]

All Superhero movies are overrated in some way. The Dark Knight is the most overrated movie I have ever seen....and I think its a fantastic film. As for Civil War, it's the most accurate adaptation of the genre so far. The Airport fight is a comic book two page panel come to life. It gave you things that you'd expect and yet were still excited when it happen on screen. Still even though I loved Civil War, The Winter Solider improved the Captain America character beyond the source material which rarely happens in superhero movies.

Cap was B- tier before MCU and has since leveled up to Top Tier with Batman. No other film has done that save for maybe Iron Man 1.

 

[black070]

Phase 2: "Why don't any of the other Avengers show up in these movies?"

Phase 3: "Why are all these Avengers in this movie?!"

And we're done here.

 

[The Artisan]

I seriously disagree that any of the other Avengers in CW outside of Iron Man and Spider-Man are bigger characters (in terms of movie recognition/popularity) than Black Widow. This is total semantics anyway, and I'm not really going to argue whatever your own definition of an Avenger-worthy major Marvel character is.

A major marvel character in the MCU is one that has his/her own series. Black Widow doesn't.

At the end of the day, this movie is called Captain America: Civil War because it is still largely Captain America's story and is predominantly driven by Cap's actions. If you removed Cap from this movie, you'd have no story. With the possible exception of Iron Man, that's not true for any other character here, and even then I'd argue that you could do a Sokovia Accords and/or Winter Solider follow-up story just fine without Tony's involvement. To say nothing of Spider-Man, Panther, Ant-Man, Vision, etc. who all have something to add to the film, but aren't completely integral to it. Cap and Bucky, and to a lesser extent Tony, are the only ones integral to this film. It doesn't work without them, hence, Captain America: Civil War and not Avengers: Civil War.

It's also largely Iron Man's story, driven by a lot of Iron Man's actions as well. If you took him out of this movie, you'd also have no story (as far as the civil war goes) as I said earlier, Iron Man: Civil War by this logic would've also been an appropriate title as he leads the other faction, and seeing as how they're 2 Avengers, Avengers: Civil Wa makes sense in a lot of people's minds

Maybe you should actually read Civil War and see why changing that garbage for the movie adaption was the best move they could have done.

given the chance, I would.

You haven't read the comic run, I am not sure how you can say this.

when has an adaptation ever been 100% like its source material? from what I understand, Thrones has had quite a few departures from a Song of Ice and Fire, but they were for the better.

Then why are you making all these claims about it?

what? am I wrong in claiming that captain america 3 is the MCU version of marvel's civil war?

 

[this_guy]

I liked it, but thought Winter Soldier was better. The amazing thing is with all the characters everyone still gets a chance to shine. AntMan still maintains the tone of his movie too.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Some of y'all takes these movies way too seriously. Who cares if it's a mini Avengers movie. It isn't like other heroes haven't shown up in Captain America comics a billion times before.

 

[icespide]

A major marvel character in the MCU is one that has his/her own series. Black Widow doesn't.

when did we all sit down and agree on this?

 

[Dalek]

Phase 2: "Why don't any of the other Avengers show up in these movies?"

Phase 3: "Why are all these Avengers in this movie?!"

This post should be bronzed and hung on this forum.

 

[The Artisan]

when did we all sit down and agree on this?

he was mentioning that he didn't want to argue with what my definition was for a marvel MCU major character

 

[Glass Rebel]

what? am I wrong in claiming that captain america 3 is the MCU version of marvel's civil war?

You are claiming that a movie focusing on just the civil war would have made a better adaptation when you aren't even familiar with the adapted material to begin with.

 

[Timeaisis]

I watched this again yesterday. I like the first half quite a bit, actually. Then it goes off the rails.

It's an OK movie. I did feel like it wasn't much Captain America, and it does not complete a the trilogy. If anything, it muddles the trilogy into requiring you to watch Avengers 1 and 2 and a few Iron Man movies. I think it doesn't work because they wanted to cram in so much stuff before the Infinity War (or whatever it's called now), they lost track of settling on a good solid, Cap story.

I dug the whole Bucky conspiracy theory angle with Cap struggling with his friend's dark past, but then they went and ramped it up into what essentially amounted to an excuse for Iron Man and Cap to fight a lot. If it was a more personal film about Captain America struggling with fighting for his friend vs the global governments it would've been a lot more interesting. Like deciding whether to help Bucky while still being a hero to the public. That dynamic was interesting. The accords were half-assed and a excuse for the "civil war". Hell, I would've been fine with Black Panther as-is. He works as a means to avenge his father's death. He's a cool foil to Cap. Too bad they used half their screentime on shit that isn't even remotely related to the previous Captain America films and simply more MCU setup. When you mix in Iron Man and Vision and Wanda and all the Avengers and introduce Spider-Man, shit gets super muddled and less personal.

Every time I think about Civil War I get made because they had some really cool ideas for Cap 3, but the rest felt really forced.

 

[The Artisan]

You are claiming that a movie focusing on just the civil war would have made a better adaptation when you aren't even familiar with the adapted material to begin with.

you got me there. but...i also suggested that if they were to adapt it more faithfully, they wouldn't have to put in what readers hated

 

[neojubei]

Phase 2: "Why don't any of the other Avengers show up in these movies?"

Phase 3: "Why are all these Avengers in this movie?!"

pretty much every complaint made.


As for me i thought civil war was every bit a Captain America movie and it showed how much Bucky has meant to him. Its been like that since Cap 1.

 

[Brakke]

My mom saw it recently and her take was "I don't know if any of those guys knew why they were fighting each other" which like: yeah.

It was a mess. Nothing about the Sokovia Accords made any sense at all. It's fucking nuts that the Secretary of State (?) personally operates a Secret Ultraprison in the ocean.

 

[Siegcram]

you got me there. but...i also suggested that if they were to adapt it more faithfully, they wouldn't have to put in what readers hated

"Change it to make it more faithful!"

You're out of your depth dude.

 

[Blader]

A major marvel character in the MCU is one that has his/her own series. Black Widow doesn't.


It's also largely Iron Man's story, driven by a lot of Iron Man's actions as well. If you took him out of this movie, you'd also have no story (as far as the civil war goes) as I said earlier, Iron Man: Civil War by this logic would've also been an appropriate title as he leads the other faction, and seeing as how they're 2 Avengers, Avengers: Civil Wa makes sense in a lot of people's minds

If Tony isn't in the movie, it's a less interesting story, but the story fundamentally still works. Ross presents the accords, Cap rebels, some side with him, some don't, there's a chase for Bucky, etc.

There is no story here without Cap though. Cap is the one who adds conflict. In a Civil War with Tony and without Cap, the accords are presented, Tony and co. sign, nobody gives a shit about Bucky, and Zemo's plan doesn't have any fight to exacerbate. Cap is the major point of resistance to the accords, the biggest driver in protecting Bucky, and the reason why there's a civil war at all.

you got me there. but...i also suggested that if they were to adapt it more faithfully, they wouldn't have to put in what readers hated

A more faithful adaptation means including *more*, not less, of the comic. Which would include the things that readers hated. Changing the story to get rid of that stuff would mean a less faithful adaptation.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

are you sure?

Yes. I was very actively in to reading comics and hanging out at comic book shops at the time. Though everyone was excited about it at first, by the time it was all said and done it was about as well received as the Clone Saga.

 

[Glass Rebel]

you got me there. but...i also suggested that if they were to adapt it more faithfully, they wouldn't have to put in what readers hated

That's what they did.

It's called Captain America: Civil War

 

[Azih]

I loved it other than Baron Zemo's Joker level plan that really should never have worked. Wonderful film outside of that.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

you got me there. but...i also suggested that if they were to adapt it more faithfully, they wouldn't have to put in what readers hated

A faithful adaptation of Civil War would barely make sense in the world they've established here. And people complained about heroes fighting each other in the movie, they'd have an aneurysm if Marvel Studios used the comic as a guidebook. The movie took what little worked in the comic event and polished it to a shine. They already did what you're suggesting and complaining about

 

[icespide]

a faithful adaptation of the civil war book would have been like 6 hours long or 3 movies. It also would suck

 

[The Artisan]

"Change it to make it more faithful!"

You're out of your depth dude.

how does that make me out of my depth? man, who says anything about depth.

If Tony isn't in the movie, it's a less interesting story, but the story fundamentally still works. Ross presents the accords, Cap rebels, some side with him, some don't, there's a chase for Bucky, etc.

There is no story here without Cap though. Cap is the one who adds conflict. In a Civil War with Tony and without Cap, the accords are presented, Tony and co. sign, nobody gives a shit about Bucky, and Zemo's plan doesn't have any fight to exacerbate. Cap is the major point of resistance to the accords, the biggest driver in protecting Bucky, and the reason why there's a civil war at all.



A more faithful adaptation means including *more*, not less, of the comic. Which would include the things that readers hated. Changing the story to get rid of that stuff would mean a less faithful adaptation.

I don't know about that. Who would be there to arrest cap and the rest of the avengers who doesn't sign if Iron Man wasn't part of the story. And I thought Tony had a hand in writing the accords too

Yes. I was very actively in to reading comics and hanging out at comic book shops at the time. Though everyone was excited about it at first, by the time it was all said and done it was about as well received as the Clone Saga.

the clone saga?

That's what they did.

It's called Captain America: Civil War

it could've been done better than that.

 

[diaspora]

you got me there. but...i also suggested that if they were to adapt it more faithfully, they wouldn't have to put in what readers hated

The original Civil War was dogshit, adapting it would have been a huge downgrade.

 

[The Artisan]

A faithful adaptation of Civil War would barely make sense in the world they've established here. And people complained about heroes fighting each other in the movie, they'd have an aneurysm if Marvel Studios used the comic as a guidebook. The movie took what little worked in the comic event and polished it to a shine. They already did what you're suggesting and complaining about

because there aren't enough superheroes. it could have worked better if they waited another phase or 2

a faithful adaptation of the civil war book would have been like 6 hours long or 3 movies. It also would suck

could be split into 2 parts like the infinity war

 

[icespide]

because there aren't enough superheroes. it could have worked better if they waited another phase or 2


could be split into 2 parts like the infinity war

Infinity war isn't 2 parts anymore. It would still suck

 

[The Artisan]

The original Civil War was dogshit, adapting it would have been a huge downgrade.

they did adapt it. if it was complete dogshit then they wouldn't have based cap3 on it.

 

[Glass Rebel]

it could've been done better than that.

you have literally no way to know that

 

[The Artisan]

Infinity war isn't 2 parts anymore. It would still suck

it was going to be at one point

you have literally no way to know that

you're right, i don't, but you have literally no way of knowing that's not the case either.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

the clone saga?

Spider-Man's clone saga arc(s).

 

[Siegcram]

how does that make me out of my depth? man, who says anything about depth.

You haven't read the comic this movie takes its premise and title from, yet complain about its faithfulness. That's not weird to you?

 

[icespide]

you have literally no way to know that

sometimes I think The Artisan gets high and plots out everything wrong with the MCU and how he would make it better

 

[Fancy Clown]

they did adapt it. if it was complete dogshit then they wouldn't have based cap3 on it.

It had a cool concept and a shit execution.
They took the cool concept and executed it better.

 

[Glass Rebel]

you're right, i don't

thank you

 

[The Artisan]

You haven't read the comic this movie takes its premise and title from, yet complain about its faithfulness. That's not weird to you?

yes it's weird but that's just how mind works. i think there's enough about it online that i can take from which tells me what the civil war movie is supposed to be in regards to being an adaptation of the civil war comics

sometimes I think The Artisan gets high and plots out everything wrong with the MCU and how he would make it better

this was a sober thread

It had a cool concept and a shit execution.
They took the cool concept and executed it better.

they executed in a way that makes sense for the time being in the MCU

 

[The Artisan]

thank you

you're welcome, but again, neither do you.

 

[Blader]

how does that make me out of my depth? man, who says anything about depth.

I don't know about that. Who would be there to arrest cap and the rest of the avengers who doesn't sign if Iron Man wasn't part of the story. And I thought Tony had a hand in writing the accords too

Ross, and the world's governments and militaries, exactly as we see in the movie?

Tony didn't write the accords, they were put together by the UN. He just signed them.

they did adapt it. if it was complete dogshit then they wouldn't have based cap3 on it.

The movie has nothing to do with the comic other than the very basic premise. They liked the idea and used that for their own story.

Like, Age of Ultron the movie has nothing to do with Age of Ultron the comic. They used the name because they liked it. That doesn't make Age of Ultron the comic any less shitty.

 

[The Artisan]

Ross, and the world's governments and militaries, exactly as we see in the movie?

Tony didn't write the accords, they were put together by the UN. He just signed them.

if that happened and cap got taken in and broke out I don't know if calling this civil war would be the best way to put it. i thought civil war was supposed to mean the superheroes fighting each other. captain america: rogue would have made more sense

The movie has nothing to do with the comic other than the very basic premise. They liked the idea and used that for their own story.

Like, Age of Ultron the movie has nothing to do with Age of Ultron the comic. They used the name because they liked it. That doesn't make Age of Ultron the comic any less shitty.

what they kept consistent was that civil war was a massive versus story involving captain america and iron man. that much is true about the movie

 

[Glass Rebel]

you're welcome, but again, neither do you.

No, I literally do know that a more faithful adaptation would have made for a shittier movie because the major elements they left out of it would have made a shittier movie.

Which you would know if you had read the Civil War storyline that you want so much.

 

[The Artisan]

No, I literally do know that a more faithful adaptation would have made for a shittier movie because the major elements they left out of it would have made a shittier movie.

No you don't, man..what I wanted was a crossover film about the civil war without any distractions. You don't know that a film like that would've been better or not.

Which you would know if you had read the Civil War storyline that you want so much.

Like I said to the racer, when has an adaptation ever been 100% like its source material?

 

[black070]

Like I said to the racer, when has an adaptation ever been 100% like its source material?

It's becoming increasingly clear you don't really know what you want.

 

[Glass Rebel]

No you don't, man..what I wanted was a crossover film about the civil war without any distractions. You don't know that a film like that would've been better or not.

Like I said to the racer, when has an adaptation ever been 100% like its source material?

1. You said you wanted a movie that was more faithful to the comics. The comics don't have "the civil war without any distractions".

2. "the civil war without any distractions" would not work in the MCU because the crucial point of the Superhero Registration Act in the comics has no bearing at all in the MCU so there would be no conflict.

It's becoming increasingly clear you don't really know what you want.

As 100% as possible but not quite 100%

 

[Syder]

Film was good so I don't care. So many of Marvel's supposedly superior cinematic universe films are absolute dog shite. Cap 2 & 3 were awesome.

 

[Azih]

The best thing about the CU Civil War unlike the comic one was that the comic turned both Rogers and Stark into gigantic assholes to justify the fighting while in the CU they both remained fundamentally decent people who kept getting overtaken by Zemo orchestrated events.

 

[The Artisan]

It's becoming increasingly clear you don't really know what you want.

it's too late for me to get what I want

1. You said you wanted a movie that was more faithful to the comics. The comics don't have "the civil war without any distractions".

2. "the civil war without any distractions" would not work in the MCU because the crucial point of the Superhero Registration Act in the comics has no bearing at all in the MCU so there would be no conflict.



As 100% as possible but not quite 100%

if they waited a few more phases then bringing out a superhero registration act might've made sense.

what was the distraction in the comic book version of civil war?

 

[Slayven]

Adapt it to be more faithful? I don't understand how it could have been more faithful

 

[LionPride]

The best thing about the CU Civil War unlike the comic one was that the comic turned both Rogers and Stark into gigantic assholes to justify the fighting while in the CU they both remained fundamentally decent people who kept getting overtaken by Zemo orchestrated events.

I loved that shit. That's why I was pro Black Panther, then the end fight happened and you can't help but understand why Tony is pissed. They ain't friends at the end, not by a long shot.

Also, The Artisan doesn't know what he wants in an "adaption" of something he has never read. What a surprise.

And the "BvS was too smart for audiences, the internet echochamber is why people hate BvS and love Civil War!" People need to get help. Honestly.

 

[Sunster]

I feel like, what more do you want out of a super hero movie designed to sell toys to kids? This isn't StarWars.

 

[Blader]

if that happened and cap got taken in and broke out I don't know if calling this civil war would be the best way to put it. i thought civil war was supposed to mean the superheroes fighting each other. captain america: rogue would have made more sense

War Machine, Widow, Panther, and Vision signed the accords because they believed they were necessary. Tony didn't convince them to, and Widow seemed to support it in spite of Tony. The only person on Tony's side who's there specifically because of Tony is Spider-Man. On the flip side, there's only a Team Cap specifically because of Cap. Hell, Hawkeye and Ant-Man only come into the movie at all solely to help out Cap.

In a Civil War without Tony, you'd probably see Panther leading the rest of that crew against Cap's team. In a Civil War without Cap, everyone would have either signed or just retired (or in Hawkeye's case, stayed retired).

 

[Glass Rebel]

if they waited a few more phases then bringing out a superhero registration act might've made sense.

So you just want an entirely different MCU. Ok then.

what was the distraction in the comic book version of civil war?

Just on Tony's side there's him cloning Thor and using the Iron Spider armor to spy on Peter. And that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of what transpired around the Civil War event in the comics.