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Anyone else hate stats based gaming?

K

Kabuki Waq

Member
Honestly I think its horrible.

your at a boss you cant beat it so what do you do?
You go back face the easy monsters to level up and then you beat the boss...does it give you satisfaction?


You stab a guy point blank in the EYE with a fucking broad sword in morrowind....and what do you get? *miss*

Some one swings his switch blade clearly missing you by 12 feet what does he get? Critical hit!
I mean cmon WTF??


Im a big 7ft warrior with a huge AXE i do not want to get killed by a cute little bunny over and over again in FFXI.


Fuck why am trying to kill these lil bunnies when i have a huge sword? Why is there no collision detection? why arent any reflexes or real skill involved?


Fuck these clickfest shopping sims!



yea i know some of you are gonna flame me and call me noob but im sure there have to be a few ppl who agree with me. The rest of you are fucking ninjadogs as far as im concerned. :)
 
I agree with you, that problem is specially serious in MMORPGs, where it doesn't matters who is the best player, but who has played longer.
 
yes, i hate stats based shit. it just artifically makes the game longer. instead of having actual game skills, you just need a shitload of free time to repetitively level up your characters. i'm not saying leveling up needs to be eliminated. i like molding and shaping up my characters to accomodate my playing style, but i hate it when i have to level up for hours to beat a boss because i have weak stats.

if i wanted to play stats, i'd download progress quest lol


i think something like mario & luigi is a good example of how rpg should be. if you have the skills, you dont need to level up at all. but if you suck at avoiding attacks, well then level up. it's your fault for sucking
 
The End said:
I bought Culdcept for $5.99 used at EB.
Click to expand...

WINNER!


I don't mind it at all in the proper context. But then I used to play/design (for fun) tabletop and rpg games and those are a little bit more up front about their math than all the fun/pretty physics that hides it in action games. Usually there is still some sort of damage equation or the like going on, though. Since the big drive for RPGs was adapting those same paper games into computer crunching graphical representations, I like being able to see the "guts" of the resolution, as it were.

Again, in the right sort of game.
 
I love stat based games because it gives me some sense of progression with my character. I would enjoy games like the Zelda series much more if you could level up in the games (along with far more weapons than just a handful). I can't imagine a MMORPG without stats. I wouldn't have any desire to play one where everyone was of the same power level. Why even do missions and kill stuff, you wouldn't progress. Everyone could go to any area or any mission. As a result there would be more "newbs" mixed with good players and end up screwing up the effectiveness of the teams due to their inexperience (at least with stats based progress you are sure if someone reached a high level, they are at least somewhat experienced). People who don't like stat based games probably have very little patience and want everyone handed to them with little effort.
 
I like role playing games that focus on stats and stat manipulation, if you don't like that sort of gaming, you can always go play Halo, Jak and Daxter and the like. There are plenty of non-stat driven games available in the market. All consoles on the market today have a wide variety of games available, no one is restricting you to a certain genre.
 
Pimpbaa said:
I love stat based games because it gives me some sense of progression with my character. I would enjoy games like the Zelda series much more if you could level up in the games (along with far more weapons than just a handful). I can't imagine a MMORPG without stats. I wouldn't have any desire to play one where everyone was of the same power level. Why even do missions and kill stuff, you wouldn't progress. Everyone could go to any area or any mission. As a result there would be more "newbs" mixed with good players and end up screwing up the effectiveness of the teams due to their inexperience (at least with stats based progress you are sure if someone reached a high level, they are at least somewhat experienced). People who don't like stat based games probably have very little patience and want everyone handed to them with little effort.
Click to expand...


Skills based gaming has progression too compare a beginner SF3 player to a n00b player or compare and beginner Ninja gaiden/ DMC3 player to an expert player. You get better with your skills. In stats gaming you just get artificially better.

What the hell do you mean ppl who dont like stats based gaming want everything handed to them with little effort? and patience? cmon clicking one button over and over again is not something that i would call taking effort.
 
Kabuki Waq said:
Skills based gaming has progression too compare a beginner SF3 player to a n00b player or compare and beginner Ninja gaiden/ DMC3 player to an expert player. You get better with your skills. In stats gaming you just get artificially better.

What the hell do you mean ppl who dont like stats based gaming want everything handed to them with little effort? and patience? cmon clicking one button over and over again is not something that i would call taking effort.
Click to expand...

Some of us prefer to think and use a little strategy in our games rather than just a game that tests our hand eye cordination (not that there is anything wrong with that). Clicking one button over and over again is not what stat based games are about (unless you are playing diablo or something).
 
Pimpbaa said:
Some of us prefer to think and use a little strategy in our games rather than just a game that tests our hand eye cordination (not that there is anything wrong with that). Clicking one button over and over again is not what stat based games are about (unless you are playing diablo or something).
Click to expand...


There's more strategy in Virtua Figher 4 than WoW or EQ2, it just requires you to think a little faster.
 
However, button mashing seldom reaps rewards in WOW, whereas it might win you a round or two in VF4.


<runs.>
 
Stinkles said:
However, button mashing seldom reaps rewards in WOW, whereas it might win you a round or two in VF4.


<runs.>
Click to expand...


honey, lets not go down this road, it only leads to tears.
 
Stinkles said:
However, button mashing seldom reaps rewards in WOW, whereas it might win you a round or two in VF4.


<runs.>
Click to expand...


heh.

If you said "Soul Calibur" or "Tekken", you'd probably be right, but in VF you'd just stand there and twitch.
 
The End said:
There's more strategy in Virtua Figher 4 than WoW or EQ2, it just requires you to think a little faster.
Click to expand...

Can't argue against that because I never played VF4 to get that good in it. All my gaming friends ain't into fighting games (and cpu opponents are just no fun to fight against).
 
the thing about it is this.

unless the playing field is even (ala VF, or an fps) hardcore gaming peeps wont take it seriously, youll never see a WOW tournament cause the game is 50% skill and 50% equipment.

stats are good for 1p games and games where you work with other people, but in a vs atmosphere its kinda lame.


and as someone who has played the shit out of both WOW and VF i can say without a shadow of a doubt theres more depth and balance in VF than wow could ever hope for.

i dont even know why you would compare the two actually, they are so different in philosophy.
 
sp0rsk said:
the thing about it is this.

unless the playing field is even (ala VF, or an fps) hardcore gaming peeps wont take it seriously, youll never see a WOW tournament cause the game is 50% skill and 50% equipment.

stats are good for 1p games and games where you work with other people, but in a vs atmosphere its kinda lame.


and as someone who has played the shit out of both WOW and VF i can say without a shadow of a doubt theres more depth and balance in VF than wow could ever hope for.

i dont even know why you would compare the two actually, they are so different in philosophy.
Click to expand...


Pimpbaa started it, not me.
 
What gets me, what totally turns me off the entire damn genre, is stats affecting things in sports games. There's no damn excuse, it's just completely lame. Sports games are playthings for sports fanatics, they aren't real games.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
What gets me, what totally turns me off the entire damn genre, is stats affecting things in sports games. There's no damn excuse, it's just completely lame. Sports games are playthings for sports fanatics, they aren't real games.
Click to expand...

I don't even get what you're saying beyond you don't like sports games.
 
RANDOM buttonmashing could win you a game or two in VF, especially with characters such as Pai, Lei-Fei or Jacky. Just like a random punch COULD surprise a trained martial artist with a limited training.

Still, a skilled WoW player who knows his skills and those of the opponent WILL have an advantage to an extent. Obviously a lvl 1 can't even hit a lvl 60 because of stats, but a lvl 50 can certainly beat a clueless lvl 60, or a single lvl 60 can defeat two lvl 60 if he knows how to deal with them.

But I agree with sporsk (also having played both for hundreds of hours) that WoW is essentially less balanced since it HAS level progression. Even in a 1-on-1 situation with two equally levelled characters it will never be completely balanced because of class pros/cons and equipment. But statistically, if 10000 people with random levels fight 10000 matches each against random levels, the more skilled players WILL win more.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
What gets me, what totally turns me off the entire damn genre, is stats affecting things in sports games. There's no damn excuse, it's just completely lame. Sports games are playthings for sports fanatics, they aren't real games.
Click to expand...

You're playing the wrong sports games... there's plenty of more arcadey sports games that are quick to learn and pretty fun to play, where you won't need to worry about the Bills special teams rating (or even what the hell that is) or stuff like that...
 
SiegfriedFM said:
RANDOM buttonmashing could win you a game or two in VF, especially with characters such as Pai, Lei-Fei or Jacky. Just like a random punch COULD surprise a trained martial artist with a limited training.
Click to expand...


a lucky punch doesnt count as a win. you might land a few hits, but against a seasoned vf player you will not win, not even a round.

i promise on my grandmothers grave!
 
Stats based games do indeed suck if that's the prominent feature of the said game. But it's not so bad if it's in the background and the gameplay is not very dependent on it...like GTA:SA, I thought it added a lot to the game without weighing it down. It was a feature that I formerly detested, but it can be applied in subtle ways to various genres with great results.
 
sp0rsk said:
a lucky punch doesnt count as a win. you might land a few hits, but against a seasoned vf player you will not win, not even a round.

i promise on my grandmothers grave!
Click to expand...

So... times is a factor in both twitch and stats based games... difference is. One is twitch ("skill") and the other is stats (with minimal of "skill").

Why the hate for either when both need a shit load of time?
 
Kintaro said:
So... times is a factor in both twitch and stats based games... difference is. One is twitch ("skill") and the other is stats (with minimal of "skill").

Why the hate for either when both need a shit load of time?
Click to expand...


Stats based tho some 10 yr old kid can buy a level 60 character and have spent no time with the game can pretty much a crush someones level 30 character who has spent a 100 hours with the game.
 
In a lot of rpgs, people over emphasize the importance of stats. Everytime somebody needs help on a boss, they are told to level up. That's bullshit, with some strategy you can beat many rpgs without having to do any extra leveling up.
 
What gets me, what totally turns me off the entire damn genre, is stats affecting things in sports games. There's no damn excuse, it's just completely lame. Sports games are playthings for sports fanatics, they aren't real games.
Click to expand...

That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
 
Umm, I was going to say something until I saw this:

hiromitouch6sr.gif


now I can't remember what I was going to say.
 
Stinkles said:
However, button mashing seldom reaps rewards in WOW, whereas it might win you a round or two in VF4.


<runs.>
Click to expand...

And that's why Smash Brothers isn't a fighting game.
 
I LOVE turn-based stat-based RPGs but man, that's the most retarded and unnatural way of combat.


Case: Fallout 1 & 2

I'm standing in front of a guy, 1 meter max.
I burst 40 bullets at his chest.

They all fucking miss.
 
I have this really bizarre habit where I don't play games from genres I don't like. Am I some kind of freak?
 
Kintaro said:
So... times is a factor in both twitch and stats based games... difference is. One is twitch ("skill") and the other is stats (with minimal of "skill").

Why the hate for either when both need a shit load of time?
Click to expand...


im not hatin, like i said, these games are so different we really shouldnt be comparing them.

the only thing that you can really say is that VF is better for competition due to the playfield always being even. Picking one character wont give you the upper hand.

whereas in WoW if youre a shadow priest\shaman, prepare to own everyone in solo pvp
 
I think more games should be incorporate some decent stat-capping measures. Make it impossible to get 100/100 in both Power and Speed. Instead, bring Power down in response to building speed up. Make gamers really appreciate a stat, instead of just maxing them all out and breaking the game. I think Mario Golf handled this well. I mean, fuck, they limit your skill set all the time with Classes. It's not much of a stretch to limit stats in the same way.
 
Stat based games cater to different feelings.

If you want adrenaline inducing gaming they won't fit that bill, but they can be quite enjoyable if you like to relax while gaming.
 
i remember chrono cross had a level cap throughout the game. you couldn't power-level your characters until you beat the next boss. then it'd let you level up till a cap and you would have to beat another boss to remove the cap again, etc. not too sure how well that worked since i havent played chrono cross in years, but putting a cap on stats might resolve the whole leveling bit thing. at least it would force people to think how to fight rather than level up for hours and hours till you get overpowered to the point that you mind as well watch someone else play the game
 
Its not a problem having stat based gameplay. The problem is how it is implemented.

For instance, in JRPG's. Only in those kind of games will you literally just have to wander around the world in a circle for hours, fighting legions of meaningless battles to boost up your level.

In a well done RPG, you don’t need to do that. The game is paced properly so that you are the appropriate level to meet whatever challenge is next. The games (mostly western RPG's) that do want you to level up before your next big "boss fight" at least make it interesting; the experience/battles/etc come in the form of "side quests".

Take Morrowind, for example. Sure, you need to power up your character, like any stat based RPG. But if you weren’t on the main plot, you were doing a side quest. Even if you were just wandering around the world, checking out random tombs, dungeons, etc, at least you were GOING somewhere and DOING something.

Suikoden III, on the other hand. Now, don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed that game. It was great. But there were points where I literally had to spin around in circles in the same damn field for an hour or more, fighting random battles to level up my chars. That wasn't fun. Hell, that wasn't even playing a game. That was a chore.
 
I hate Square because almost all force me to fight some scrubs so I can level up again to tackle the next boss
 
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