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[Kon Tiki]

Have you ever played either professionally? NHL, or NBA? Um no, don't think so. My comments are just as warranted as yours. That's why I'm commenting. If I abided by your reasoning, then we all should just STFU.

Hockey is demanding not matter what level you play at. In unprofessional leagues, the benches are usually shorter, which makes it moe demanding. I have no idea why you are limiting sports to the highest tier.

 

[Gregory]

Ovechkin is amazing. One of the biggets talents in a long time.

 

[calder]

I'd comment on the fitness of baseball players, except last week I traded Frank Thomas for C.C. Sabathia and the ginormous fucker hurt his shoulder in the FIRST DAMN INNING HE PITCHED FOR ME.

That dude's 6'7", listed at 290 but he's probably at least a few dozen pounds heavier. That's damn big. Maybe if he put the bag of Doritos down for a while his shoulder wouldn't be so sore. :|

 

[Malakhov]

Ovechkin is amazing. One of the biggets talents in a long time.

Hell yeah plus he's a physical player and is not a liability at defense. He looks like the total package.

 

[Willco]

Puckett, Vaughn and Ruth were/are FAT guys. Not "chunky", not "beefy"...just fat. Didn't stop them from doing well, but let's call it what it is.

Those offensive and defensive linemen are some speedy mofos, despite their size. I'd like to see any of the guys on my previous list, including the ones Federman brought up, run the 40 in less than 10 minutes.

Besides, we're talking hockey fitness vs baseball fitness, not football. No need for me to bring in other sports to buttress my viewpoint.

Ruth was not fat. Vaughn certainly was and still is, but Ruth is not.

 

[Mike Works]

Say what you want about Wells' ethics and such, the man has earned a prestigious place in baseball history.

Err, I think that's their point, Will.

Hell, the greatest baseball player of all time was a fatass.

 

[Willco]

Err, I think that's their point, Will.

Hell, the greatest baseball player of all time was a fatass.

He reached that point not by being fat. Wells is a skilled pitcher. And Barry Bonds, the greatest player of all-time, is so not fat.

Babe Ruth was not fat, either. He could few to lose a few pounds, but the fact that John Goodman portrayed him hurts his image.

 

[beerbelly]

It wouldn't matter to me. If the leafs sign Belfour (Ferguson likely would because he likes to satisfy the fans instead of thinking logically) I would rather NHL be out because I want a fresh young goalie this time. With the team they have right now, its likely they will not be able to win the cup. But then again it's too hard to predict the NHL nowadays; look what happened to Tampa Bay.

 

[Malakhov]

I need hockey and I need it badly. Hockey withdrawal is just flat out insane. All I've been doing since the season is over is browse hockey forums and read about prospects and messing around with the Habs lines.

HELP ME OH MY GOD HELP ME

 

[Mike Works]

He reached that point not by being fat. Wells is a skilled pitcher. And Barry Bonds, the greatest player of all-time, is so not fat.

Babe Ruth was not fat, either. He could few to lose a few pounds, but the fact that John Goodman portrayed him hurts his image.

Yeah, but the point is, the sport allows for fat asses to play, so long as they have a certain skill (like a good arm or a good swing). Just because Wells can throw a baseball better than most others doesn't mean he doesn't have a gut.

Fat people can play baseball or football, and even basketball to a certain degree. But not hockey.

 

[Malakhov]

Fat people can play football because all they've got to do is stand up in a line and run real fast into other fat guys who are also standing up in a line it's really fun to watch oh yes.

 

[Nerevar]

Fat people can play football because all they've got to do is stand up in a line and run real fast into other fat guys who are also standing up in a line it's really fun to watch oh yes.

wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever read. You know significantly less about football than I do about hockey, I'll say that much.

 

[Malakhov]

wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Are you sure because I've read a lot of dumb things in my life and I think that if you had posted that instead of me and that I would of read it well hmm I don't think it would of been the dumbest thing I've ever read.

 

[Socreges]

Baseball
60 Million
110

Hockey
3 million
118

The 3 million number accounts for so very little. It's exclusive to those who can play the game on ice, which is difficult, rather than including those who may play road hockey every so often (I bet there are many more people in this regard).

And if you still don't believe me

It's not a matter of "believing" you. You're going off purely what you provide to me. It's a matter of taking these supposed statistics and applying them, which you aren't doing. You think they speak for themselves and I disagree.

go grab a copy of Sports Illustrated dated June 14th, 2004 and find an article on the globalization of sports by L. Jon Wertheim with a nice graphic on international television ratings broken down by sport. Hockey is clearly behind baseball.

AND LIKE I SAID, television ratings HAVE EVERYTHING TO DO WITH POPULARITY and baseball has higher ratings than hockey worldwide.

Well, no. Popularity is a very loaded word. Once you begin equating it with pure success, you're taking a hell of a lot out of it. The MLB has made itself extremely international. It is available to practically everyone who plays the game, across many, many countries. The NHL has not achieved this. They have much different priorities. The NHL has had to worry about domestic success, whereas the MLB has seen to provide access to any single untapped market. Yet, hockey is number one in a handful of countries where the NHL isn't even aired. I think you're way too quick to equate television ratings to popularity.

eg, more Japanese than Americans watched the World Series - now, if Russia were to get the NHL and embrace it as they do the sport, you'd see the TV ratings for hockey rise considerably.

More abstract: my sister's bf from Scotland is staying with us. He watched every game of the NHL Finals and regretted that they didn't get the games back home. We had an Expos game on and he said he finds the sport boring and that they get a fair amount of coverage in the UK. Don't focus on the personal preference, of course, but the circumstances.

Another great example of success not being attributable to popularity is the Super Bowl. Millions and millions of worldwide viewers who don't watch or play the game otherwise. I don't think that's as much a testament to the sport as it is the strengths of the NFL.

That said, I'll admit now that the sports are much closer than I had thought. Baseball might even have the edge. I don't think television ratings or estimates [based on what??] are good representation, but they do indicate to some extent.

Concerning my ignorance, maybe my problem is that I tend to bunch a lot of the Central/South American countries together. They're very similar, whereas the European countries are more discernable. Venezuela barely exists to me and yet it almost has as many people as Canada. Yet Sweden, more prominent, has just 8 million. But concerning "popularity", I'm not about to define which has the advantage by estimates or TV ratings [explained why].

 

[Nerevar]

More abstract: my sister's bf from Scotland is staying with us. He watched every game of the NHL Finals and regretted that they didn't get the games back home. We had an Expos game on and he said he finds the sport boring and that they get a fair amount of coverage in the UK. Don't focus on the personal preference, of course, but the circumstances.

Concerning my ignorance, maybe my problem is that I tend to bunch a lot of the Central/South American countries together. They're very similar, whereas the European countries are more discernable. Venezuela barely exists to me and yet it almost has as many people as Canada. Yet Sweden, more prominent, has just 8 million. But concerning "popularity", I'm not about to define which has the advantage by estimates or TV ratings [explained why].

No offense, I think your biggest problem is that you tend to disregard pretty much all of Latin America together. I think hockey is popular across all of Europe (being more popular in eastern Europe but less so in western Europe). But hockey has not made a dent in the Latin American market, where baseball is the number 2 sport (and in some places the number 1 sport, like Cuba), as well as in places like Japan and Korea where it is played heavily and even places like Australia and the rest of Asia where there is a small but loyal following. Ice hockey is pretty much only played in developed countries (for obvious reasons - where in most of Africa or Latin America are you going to put an ice rink?), but baseball is very prominent there. I can tell you, I've been to Bolivia, and one of the only things I was able to have a conversation about regarding sports was baseball. This is a country where baseball is just about as unpopular as it can be in South America, but they still understand and know it. I think that speaks volumes to it's popularity.

 

[Socreges]

No offense, I think your biggest problem is that you tend to disregard pretty much all of Latin America together.

I thought you might begin to justify that, but you didn't. Latin America is what I have in mind when I think of baseball's popularity worldwide. A lot of the best players come from that area. Even with Japan's love of baseball and large population, they still give comparitively little to the MLB.

It's just that, for instance, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic are similar in many respects. But countries such as Sweden and Russia are far more distinct and notable. There are a mess of [some heavily-populated] Latin American countries that follow baseball that contribute largely to this "worldwide" popularity. I've been quick to dismiss just what a large territory and population that covers.

I think hockey is popular across all of Europe (being more popular in eastern Europe but less so in western Europe). But hockey has not made a dent in the Latin American market, where baseball is the number 2 sport (and in some places the number 1 sport, like Cuba), as well as in places like Japan and Korea where it is played heavily and even places like Australia and the rest of Asia where there is a small but loyal following. Ice hockey is pretty much only played in developed countries (for obvious reasons - where in most of Africa or Latin America are you going to put an ice rink?), but baseball is very prominent there. I can tell you, I've been to Bolivia, and one of the only things I was able to have a conversation about regarding sports was baseball. This is a country where baseball is just about as unpopular as it can be in South America, but they still understand and know it. I think that speaks volumes to it's popularity.

...in the region. The further south you go, the less popular baseball becomes, it seems. But there still South American countries like Venezuela and Colombia that participate to some extent. Venezuelans, in particular.

Anyway, this has gotten pretty complicated. This was started because we were simply swinging our dicks at each other, saying which is more popular as if it invariably meant which is the better sport. When it comes down to it, practically every sport can be greatly enjoyed if it suits your tastes and you understand enough about it. Popularity comes down to this and how practical it is to play them.

 

[soulja224466]

Fat people can play football because all they've got to do is stand up in a line and run real fast into other fat guys who are also standing up in a line it's really fun to watch oh yes.

And hockey's only fun to watch when single-toothed goons run up behind someone and suckerpunch them, and continue to beat them while they lie on the ice. it's really fun to watch oh yes.

 

[SickBoy]

Wow, this thread got ugly and OT.

-SB

 

[Socreges]

And hockey's only fun to watch when single-toothed goons run up behind someone and suckerpunch them, and continue to beat them while they lie on the ice. it's really fun to watch oh yes.

At least his retarded ignorance had to do with the SPORT.

 

[soulja224466]

At least his retarded ignorance had to do with the SPORT.

Uh? I was just being a smartass....

 

[Socreges]

Both of you were. But both posts were based on supposed truths. Yours being that Bertuzzi kept beating him while he was down on the ice. Which isn't true at all.

 

[Malakhov]

lol@everyone reacting harshly to my drunken comments