Support NeoGAF

[Chichikov]

My point is that you can't put a magic number on what Detroit's population should be. You have to let it deflate to a size that the area can feasibly support. You can financially take the edge off the pain that happens in such a contraction, but you can't artificially create what isn't there.

With that I wholeheartedly agree, but again, this what's going in Detroit is pretty much uncharted territory in terms of urban development (especially in the US where the underlying assumption about city planning is population growth) and I think it's painfully obvious that they need some help.

I think we should extend it.

 

[eznark]

With that I wholeheartedly agree, but again, this what's going in Detroit is pretty much uncharted territory in terms of urban development (especially in the US where the underlying assumption about city planning is population growth) and I think it's painfully obvious that they need some help.

I think we should extend it.

A federally appointed mayor would surely go over well.

 

[Chichikov]

A federally appointed mayor would surely go over well.

Just because I think we should help them doesn't mean that I support every move done for that aim.

p.s.
We didn't appoint a federal employee to run the banks when we bailed them.

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

Apple could always open a new campus, it just will be the entire city

 

[eznark]

We didn't appoint a federal employee to run the banks when we bailed them.

It's going to be a little bit more complicated to create a scorecard that governs every decision a municipality can make though.

 

[The Horror the horror]

Friend of mine is big into buying real-estate in run down neighborhoods and bad cities. He took a flight to Detroit to plant his stake, and he returned swearing never to go back.

 

[Dai101]

Foxconn to buy Detroit, all the people living there now are slaves employees

 

[Chichikov]

It's going to be a little bit more complicated to create a scorecard that governs every decision a municipality can make though.

I'm not sure what you're advocating or even talking about.
Are you implying that the government control every decision Wall Street makes?

 

[eznark]

I'm not sure what you're advocating or even talking about.
Are you implying that the government control every decision Wall Street makes?

I'm implying nothing. I'm sure you've read all about bank failures, etc. Those are in relation to the scorecard system devised to steer lending activity.

In terms of the bank bailouts, they were able to bolster the score keeping system with the intention of forcing lenders to behave in ways they felt were most beneficial. They've been tweaking it since and the consequences have been numerous and humerus but it's a fairly easy task to assign a score to transaction revolving around one variable (liquidity). It's a lot harder to do the same with an entity as complex as a literal city.

I find it difficult to believe that the feds will bailout Detroit and leave no strings. It's not a disaster situation where opposing it is political suicide. I doubt there is a huge groundswell to pour federal money into that pit.

 

[Aylinato]

Don't forget the state politics in this thing from the 80s as well, massive white flight, corruption from the city and state, massive amounts of money from the city goes to the state who has refused to pay their obligations, Detroit also is paying for the consent agreement people(who haven't done jack shit), and now paying for the EMF when they have no money. No one in power in any level of government wants to change a god damn thing in Detroit.


O, they had to pay for the EMF incharge of the school district who fired the entire administration of the school district(who was working for free) and got rid of the school board.

Our state is shitty at trying to do shit for this city.

 

[Chichikov]

I'm implying nothing. I'm sure you've read all about bank failures, etc. Those are in relation to the scorecard system devised to steer lending activity.

Wait, are you blaming the last collapse on too much regulation?
What?

In terms of the bank bailouts, they were able to bolster the score keeping system with the intention of forcing lenders to behave in ways they felt were most beneficial. They've been tweaking it since and the consequences have been numerous and humerus but it's a fairly easy task to assign a score to transaction revolving around one variable (liquidity). It's a lot harder to do the same with an entity as complex as a literal city.

Why would you like use the biggest failure of government regulation as the blueprint for future government involvement?
Sheeeeit, there is so much that can be done, how about we start with proper loan guarantees so that they can raise money more easily and cheaply?
Fuck, we're doing it for Israel, we can't do it to an American city filled with taxpayers?

I find it difficult to believe that the feds will bailout Detroit and leave no strings. It's not a disaster situation where opposing it is political suicide. I doubt there is a huge groundswell to pour federal money into that pit.

It's less of a pit than Wall Street.

 

[cdyhybrid]

They'll be out of food in a year too unless the Lions cut/trade Stafford right now.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I always liked the Detroit.

The nice parts, that is. I never went into the areas I didn't want to be caught at night at.

 

[eznark]

Wait, are you blaming the last collapse on too much regulation?
What?

No, the stick that accompanied the bailout carrot after the housing collapse was an investment stifling reliance on a bank scorecard that has significantly hampered growth, specifically in second stage companies looking to grow and add jobs. I'm not saying it's the be all end all for this lost half decade but it's a contributing factor.

It was easy to use a scorecard to influence bank behavior because everything revolves around liquidity. Not a lot of variables to control for. My point is that such a solution to the control problem isn't possible with something like a city. For that there will need to be a more hands on approach; hence the DC anointed Mayor of Detroit. Maybe they'll fly in Marion Berry.

 

[jdouglas]

Downtown Detroit is awesome. Like, my favorite city by far, and I've been to the major ones.
Extra note: Enormous commendations to those who've posted photos, shared stories, etc. about tremendous weight loss and body transformation. I think of the buildings in the downtown as a metaphor for the whole city: kinda crappy beaten up exterior, but when you go inside...awesome, beautiful, heavy modern art style architecture and huuuuuge lofts that thousands of artists occupy.

You can walk down any street and find original "anything" that's beautiful. Really a rich, vibrant city if you take the time to search the interior before judging the crappy exterior.

That being said you're gonna have to bulldoze some spots.

 

[Chichikov]

No, the stick that accompanied the bailout carrot after the housing collapse was an investment stifling reliance on a bank scorecard that has significantly hampered growth, specifically in second stage companies looking to grow and add jobs. I'm not saying it's the be all end all for this lost half decade but it's a contributing factor.

It was easy to use a scorecard to influence bank behavior because everything revolves around liquidity. Not a lot of variables to control for. My point is that such a solution to the control problem isn't possible with something like a city. For that there will need to be a more hands on approach; hence the DC anointed Mayor of Detroit. Maybe they'll fly in Marion Berry.

Dude what?
The big banks (and the financial industry as a whole) have excess liquidity right now, I really don't see how you can argue that liquidity regulation is what stifle investment.

And again, what about my loan guarantee suggestion?
Why can't we do that?

I don't argue that we should use the process for Detroit and Wall Street.

 

[eznark]

^ Because the types of investment that are allowed under the scorekeeping guidelines are next to impossible to meet for the companies that would actually accelerate growth. The metrics banks are scored on now are risk-anathema.

Tiger Stadium and Ford Field are definitely things that can be built around. They are close enough that you could form a sort of stadium district a la Cincinnati or Pittsburgh (minus the water obviously) that connects the two. For me it's generally go to Detroit, hide out in Chelie's until it is time for whatever event I am in town for, go to that stadium, then go back to Chelie's until I get a cab the fuck out of there.

And again, what about my loan guarantee suggestion?
Why can't we do that?

I don't know, that's kind of a thin statement for me to base a judgement on. But I will say I'd be more confident in Israel servicing a loan than Detroit. Especially since there are alternative ramifications for them if they don't.

I know you're saying we shouldn't use the same process, but I'm saying some form of federal control will be necessary if only for oversight, and I would imagine that oversight will quickly turn to governance.