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Apple Watch |OT| Apple invents the watch!

Blackhead

Redarse
I guess I read it backwards -- Android Wear works with iPhone, but Android Phones don't yet work with Apple Watch. Still though, what happens when someone with an Android Wear device paired with an iPhone wants to use Siri or ApplePay? Will Apple Maps on the watch work with GPS functions on the phone or do you have to install Google Maps?
huh? if you don't even understand the rhetorical questions you're asking, why keep posing them...
Pebble, at the moment, is a device with a small techie following that will understand and accept interoperability problems because they knew what they were getting into in the first place. If Apple were to market the Apple Watch as interoperable with Android devices, they would be beholden to a much wider and much less savvy audience that expects the "It just works" Apple philosophy to apply.
Pebble is sold at Best Buy and has moved over a million units. It's not just a techie device.

Or do what I did in the same situation and use a freight forwarding service paying some 20 euro more :D

Together with purchasing AppleCare+ it's as good as buying in your own country.
:O doesn't Apple block those?
Ha, I thought that was the plural of iPhone5.
Theres no in app Apple Pay? I swear I read/saw that explicitly.. and Apple watch is compatible with 5S and that supports Apple Pay.

Thats weird Apple

ftfy
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
I honestly almost don't believe you! I swear you can use Apple pay with a 5S. I just thought you could. So if you have a watch and a 5S you cann't use Apple Pay?
 

japtor

Member
Maybe the fact that glances and notications are only accessible through the watch face seems like a design flaw right now because there aren't native apps. Notifs and Glances are the whole thing currently, so it seems weird they're hidden by another UI layer.. but maybe we will actually find cause to use the app screen next year.


Also I remember in September them showing the ability to build different honeycomb clusters of apps almost like different homescreens but I wasn't able to do that on the demo unit.
Well the default screen (or home) when you lift your arm seems to be the watch face/app itself with notifications/glances being quick things you check from there. You activate the screen and swipe up or down. I'd say the apps themselves are the ones that are kinda hidden (using the term really loosely there). To get into an app you activate screen, press crown button, look for and zoom in or tap the app...or just launch them from the notifications/glances without ever going to the home screen in the first place.

I don't remember different honeycombs but maybe you're thinking of tap holding to move apps around the grid?
I'm sure it's been said already, but I hate that I can't walk into an Apple store and just play with one of these things.

I'm just never going to book a "try-on" appointment or whatever.
I had an appointment on the first day, but the guy mentioned it was a 25 minute wait for walk ins. I've heard of others not waiting too long, ymmv. Also not sure about the interactive demo table things (not the try ons), I've seen some mention it in the appointment area while others had it open for anyone to mess with.
I honestly almost don't believe you! I swear you can use Apple pay with a 5S. I just thought you could. So if you have a watch and a 5S you cann't use Apple Pay?
https://www.apple.com/watch/apple-pay/
"Apple Pay is compatible with Apple Watch when paired with iPhone 5 or later."
 

Talka

Member
I had an appointment on the first day, but the guy mentioned it was a 25 minute wait for walk ins. I've heard of others not waiting too long, ymmv. Also not sure about the interactive demo table things (not the try ons), I've seen some mention it in the appointment area while others had it open for anyone to mess with.

My problem's less that I need to wait than how I don't want an Apple employee hovering over me while I play with the thing.
 

border

Member
huh? if you don't even understand the rhetorical questions you're asking, why keep posing them...

The point is to question how and if an Android watch can parse commands that require iOS-exclusive features. Or vice versa (Apple Watch sending Siri/ApplePay/TouchID requests to an Android Phone).

Pebble is sold at Best Buy and has moved over a million units. It's not just a techie device.

1 million units is really not that much compared to the size of the overall market. People buying a Kickstarter watch or off-brand retail product will problably not have the same performance expectations as those buying a retail Apple product.
 
D

Deleted member 22576

Unconfirmed Member
re: apple pay on the 5 series
  • thats dumb as fuck
 

Shearie

Member
My problem's less that I need to wait than how I don't want an Apple employee hovering over me while I play with the thing.

You can play with the watches with working software that are attached to the tablet thingy without anyone hovering over you. If you want to to actually try a watch on though (these watches by the way only have a software demo loop), you'll need your very own hovering Apple employee.
 
Well the iPhone 5 and 5s don't have an NFC chip in them - so they can't use Apple Pay. However, the Apple Watch does have an NFC chip in it. So, when paired with an iPhone 5 or 5s, you can indeed use Apple Pay via the Apple Watch's NFC chip.
 

Sean

Banned
No, it really doesn't. It's a complimentary device with design limitations that will forever prevent how far it can go. Much like iPhone will never replace an actual computer, an Apple Watch will never replace a smartphone. Dependency might reduce, but it's never something you'll be entirely free from. It can't do everything and it's obviously not trying to.

It's a complimentary device right now, but I don't expect that to be the case after a few hardware (and software) revisions. Why wouldn't Apple want to sell it to everyone who's interested in a watch rather than just existing iPhone owners? Even though there's admittedly a ton of iPhone users out there, that requirement still severely limits the sales potential of Apple Watch. Instantly eliminates hundreds of millions of potential customers.

Obviously they're not attempting to completely replace smartphones and computers, allowing basic text entry on the watch isn't exactly eliminating the need for those devices. I say give people options and let them decide what device they prefer to use. Apple allows you to read entire iBooks on your phone despite the iPad's larger screen being more ideal for that task. There's a bunch of Apple productivity apps (Keynote, Pages, Numbers, GarageBand, iMovie, etc) that were ported to iPhones despite being much better suited to desktop computers. They ported the Photos app to the Watch despite the tiny postage stamp sized screen being one of the worst possible ways to browse your photo library. But hey, it's still nice to have that option. Keyboard would be no different imo, even if it's used as an absolute last resort it'd be nice to have one.

Wow, you leave your phone on to get messages in church? That's even more ballsy than using your phone at the movies. So in this situation, the ideal/preferred solution is to wait til you're not in fucking church to answer a message, but if you must, perhaps use your phone, since it would be significantly quicker.

Church was just the most extreme example of how dictation simply doesn't work in all scenarios. Maybe you're in a quiet library or coffee shop instead. Or riding public transport. Or a loud bar/nightclub/stadium/rock concert where it'd never recognize what you were saying over all the noise. Or any public setting that you don't want people to hear you dictating personal things. I can think of dozens of common every day scenarios where you shouldn't or just plain couldn't use dictation.

One of the biggest selling points of the watch is that you don't have to take your phone out of your pocket to see notifications and respond to texts etc. Being able to respond with more than just a pre-canned message or the often unreliable dictation would be a nice middle ground option.

Anyone interested in an Apple Watch is 90% likely to have already been interested in an ecosystem switch, since Apple Watch entices people to buy it for the same reasons that the iPhone entices people to buy it. Let's not pretend that's not true.

As for Android Wear working with iOS, Apple will keep their watch relevant with better performance and exclusive interoperability functions that Android Wear will never be able to provide to an iPhone user. Much in the same way that Apple will never be able to provide an optimal iTunes experience that matches the experience on the Mac to Windows users. It will always be below par.

I don't think that's necessarily true. It's not hard to believe that someone would be interested in the Apple Watch yet perfectly happy with their current smartphone. Just like the vast majority of iPod and iPhone customers never switched to Macs.

The Apple Watch can be a device that works better with an iPhone, sure, but it shouldn't require one to function. If they keep that mindset I believe that Android Wear will smoke them. It'll be a repeat of the early iPhone years where being exclusive to a single carrier hampered their sales potential and allowed Android to gain major momentum.
 

finalflame

Member
So, for the people who currently have an iPhone 6 and Apple Pay at brick and mortar stores, is it actually useful/easier than just pulling out and swiping a card? I'm not sure if I should be excited for this. I have a 5S and never was particularly interested, but having the option of using it with my new Apple Watch will be cool.
 
The Space Grey of the watch does not look the same as the phone in any way shape or form. You might say it's because of the surface area or whatever, but the fact remains that when next to each other the watch is WAY darker than the phone. I specifically asked about this when I tried one on today, pulled out my Space Grey phone and put it right next to the watch and they are very different.

In other news, the Sport Band is smooth as FUCK. Felt like putting butter on my skin. I felt like an idiot fawning over a plastic band but oh my god it is so soft and comfortable. I want a sheet of it to rub on my face.

So, for the people who currently have an iPhone 6 and Apple Pay at brick and mortar stores, is it actually useful/easier than just pulling out and swiping a card? I'm not sure if I should be excited for this. I have a 5S and never was particularly interested, but having the option of using it with my new Apple Watch will be cool.

I've only ever used it at McDonalds but it's much faster and easier. Touch your phone to the screen, put your finger on the TouchID, you're done.
 

jts

...hate me...
Apple Watch must be the first Apple device able to play music that doesn't have a 3.5mm jack, and relies entirely on bluetooth if you wanna listen to music directly off it.

Which leads me to the question, will Apple ever bother releasing an affordable-ish bluetooth version of their earpods or that's just left to Beats?
 

riotous

Banned
So, for the people who currently have an iPhone 6 and Apple Pay at brick and mortar stores, is it actually useful/easier than just pulling out and swiping a card? I'm not sure if I should be excited for this. I have a 5S and never was particularly interested, but having the option of using it with my new Apple Watch will be cool.

It's not exactly replacing a hugely difficult task. But it's certainly easier. If you use multiple credit cards for various rewards points it's that much more of a convenience. The added security is a nice piece of mind; especially at things like vending machines or gas stations where the readers are compromised by hackers more often than you'd like to think.
 

finalflame

Member
I've only ever used it at McDonalds but it's much faster and easier. Touch your phone to the screen, put your finger on the TouchID, you're done.

It's not exactly replacing a hugely difficult task. But it's certainly easier. If you use multiple credit cards for various rewards points it's that much more of a convenience. The added security is a nice piece of mind; especially at things like vending machines or gas stations where the readers are compromised by hackers more often than you'd like to think.

Thanks, guys. I'm not really a credit card power user, mostly stick to my debit card and 1-2 credit cards. I just wonder if adoption is widespread enough that it can be used most places? I remember a lot of retailers jumped on board, them some backtracked wanting to do their own thing (which was a terrible idea, IMO). Just hope I have the option of tapping my watch at a variety of places, will be neat.
 

border

Member
So, for the people who currently have an iPhone 6 and Apple Pay at brick and mortar stores, is it actually useful/easier than just pulling out and swiping a card? I'm not sure if I should be excited for this. I have a 5S and never was particularly interested, but having the option of using it with my new Apple Watch will be cool.

I think the usefulness of ApplePay kinda depends on whether or not your local supermarket and convenience stores use it. Those are places you go on a daily or weekly basis. While there are plenty of nationwide retailers that accept ApplePay, most of them are stores you probably don't go to more than once or twice every couple months. It's not worth setting up ApplePay for stores that you only occasionally visit.

I only have an iPhone 5S though, so I can't use ApplePay until I get an Apple Watch, so my evaluation of the service is mostly hypothetical rather than based on actual experience. I can't really see myself setting up ApplePay until the places I go to on a regular basis accept it though.
 

finalflame

Member
I think the usefulness of ApplePay kinda depends on whether or not your local supermarket and convenience stores use it. Those are places you go on a daily or weekly basis. While there are plenty of nationwide retailers that accept ApplePay, most of them are stores you probably don't go to more than once or twice every couple months. It's not worth setting up ApplePay for stores that you only occasionally visit.

I only have an iPhone 5S though, so I can't use ApplePay until I get an Apple Watch, so my evaluation of the service is mostly hypothetical rather than based on actual experience. I can't really see myself setting up ApplePay until the places I go to on a regular basis accept it though.

Yah, doesn't seem like Safeway accepts it, which is a huge bummer. A shame, really.
 

riotous

Banned
Thanks, guys. I'm not really a credit card power user, mostly stick to my debit card and 1-2 credit cards. I just wonder if adoption is widespread enough that it can be used most places? I remember a lot of retailers jumped on board, them some backtracked wanting to do their own thing (which was a terrible idea, IMO). Just hope I have the option of tapping my watch at a variety of places, will be neat.

My main grocery store uses it; if I pay inside the gas stations by my house they all have it. Walgreens where I go for medications and other random stuff has it.. vending machines at my work and at a mall near my house have it.

Seeing it crop up a lot of places these days. It's certainly not ubiquitous by any means. My cards still get worn out plenty ;)
 

border

Member
Yah, doesn't seem like Safeway accepts it, which is a huge bummer. A shame, really.

Yeah, I would be totally on board with ApplePay if I could use it for groceries, gas stations, and convenience stores. But since none of the local places seem to use it, ApplePay is just an amusing novelty to me.

I think ApplePay is really going to blow up in the next couple of years though. The problem is that it requires nationwide retailers to upgrade their Point-Of-Sale devices, and that ends up being a huge expenditure for chains that have thousands of locations.
 

Sean

Banned
My main grocery store uses it; if I pay inside the gas stations by my house they all have it. Walgreens where I go for medications and other random stuff has it.. vending machines at my work and at a mall near my house have it.

Seeing it crop up a lot of places these days. It's certainly not ubiquitous by any means. My cards still get worn out plenty ;)

It's especially convenient at vending machines, no more dealing with the machine rejecting your crinkly dollar bills and then having to straighten them out and retrying. I mostly just use Apple Pay at Whole Foods though.

I think ApplePay is really going to blow up in the next couple of years though. The problem is that it requires nationwide retailers to upgrade their Point-Of-Sale devices, and that ends up being a huge expenditure for chains that have thousands of locations.

Merchants are required to support EMV/chip and PIN cards cards by October 2015 (or be liable for fraud) so they'll all be upgrading their terminals later this year anyway. And those new card readers will most likely have NFC support, so Apple Pay adoption should skyrocket.
 

japtor

Member
The Apple Watch can be a device that works better with an iPhone, sure, but it shouldn't require one to function. If they keep that mindset I believe that Android Wear will smoke them. It'll be a repeat of the early iPhone years where being exclusive to a single carrier hampered their sales potential and allowed Android to gain major momentum.
I kinda feel like the carrier lock in is stronger than Android's for many, particulalry if you use mainstream services since they'll generally be available on iOS too. Otherwise it's just a matter of where the consumer money is being spent since ultimately this is an additional cost (while switching phones can be subsidized into regular swaps/upgrades), and the money has generally been on iOS' side.

It's a trade off, or gamble depending how you look at it. They're choosing not to spend time/resources on a market that'd either not buy the watch in the first place, or be willing to switch for it. The money left on the table would be with the Android users that would be willing to pay the Apple premium but not willing switch phones.
Yeah, I would be totally on board with ApplePay if I could use it for groceries, gas stations, and convenience stores. But since none of the local places seem to use it, ApplePay is just an amusing novelty to me.

I think ApplePay is really going to blow up in the next couple of years though. The problem is that it requires nationwide retailers to upgrade their Point-Of-Sale devices, and that ends up being a huge expenditure for chains that have thousands of locations.
Don't know all the details, but a lot of the POS stuff may be getting updated en masse in the next year or two iirc cause some policy changes with the big card issuers. Something like fraud liability gets fully pushed onto the merchant (vs being handled by the issuer) if they're still on older style terminals/systems rather than the newer types with better security measures. And Apple Pay uses the standards of those newer terminals (and back end I guess?) to work.

Basically in theory, newer terminals should work fine and should become common rapidly...unless the merchant is part of the stupid CurrentC thing in which case they're blocking NFC payment systems cause they're dicks.
Well they want lower credit card fees, so they got together for some elaborate setup that cuts out card issuers entirely to put the pressure on, but I think it's pretty much floundered so hopefully they fold.

(Fake edit: Sean beat me to it)
 
Well the iPhone 5 and 5s don't have an NFC chip in them - so they can't use Apple Pay. However, the Apple Watch does have an NFC chip in it. So, when paired with an iPhone 5 or 5s, you can indeed use Apple Pay via the Apple Watch's NFC chip.

Apple Pay has its own secure "enclave" (encryption + storage) chip on 6 and 6+. The 5 series doesn't have this, so regardless of NFC, the 5 can't do Apple Pay because that enclave is fundamental to Apple Pay's operation.

The fact that the 5 can use Apple Pay when paired with an Apple Watch must mean that the Watch has its own secure enclave that the 5 can piggyback on.
 

finalflame

Member
Apple Pay has its own secure "enclave" (encryption + storage) chip on 6 and 6+. The 5 series doesn't have this, so regardless of NFC, the 5 can't do Apple Pay because that enclave is fundamental to Apple Pay's operation.

The fact that the 5 can use Apple Pay when paired with an Apple Watch must mean that the Watch has its own secure enclave that the 5 can piggyback on.

But that must mean that Apple Pay will function exclusively and natively on the Watch, right? I can't imagine that any kind of communication about Apple Pay would happen between the phone and the watch via an unsecured BT connection. I'd imagine the entire functionality of Apple Pay will be on the Watch itself, and haven nothing to do with the phone.
 
But that must mean that Apple Pay will function exclusively and natively on the Watch, right? I can't imagine that any kind of communication about Apple Pay would happen between the phone and the watch via an unsecured BT connection. I'd imagine the entire functionality of Apple Pay will be on the Watch itself, and haven nothing to do with the phone.

The user's identity is verified by the phone, which is why Apple Pay via the Watch works as long as its paired with the iPhone. So yes, you're probably right that the payment part is conceivably all on the Watch to isolate data leaks, but verifying user identity requires the phone to sign in to your Apple ID (Touch ID on the 5s, or I guess manual password entry on the 5).
 

finalflame

Member
The user's identity is verified by the phone, which is why Apple Pay via the Watch works as long as its paired with the iPhone. So yes, you're probably right that the payment part is conceivably all on the Watch to isolate data leaks, but verifying user identity requires the phone to sign in to your Apple ID (Touch ID on the 5s, or I guess manual password entry on the 5).

Interesting. So, mostly likely, users will have to have theirs 5/S out, use TouchID or their PIN, and simultaneously touch their watch to the NFC pad? All while hoping the verification goes smoothly and quickly via Bluetooth?

Honestly sounds like a convoluted mess.
 

riotous

Banned
Interesting. So, mostly likely, users will have to have theirs 5/S out, use TouchID or their PIN, and simultaneously touch their watch to the NFC pad? All while hoping the verification goes smoothly and quickly via Bluetooth?

Honestly sounds like a convoluted mess.

No; it just requires that at some point since pairing with the watch you've unlocked the phone once.
 
Interesting. So, mostly likely, users will have to have theirs 5/S out, use TouchID or their PIN, and simultaneously touch their watch to the NFC pad? All while hoping the verification goes smoothly and quickly via Bluetooth?

Honestly sounds like a convoluted mess.

No, you only need to wave your Watch at the NFC terminal. Pairing with the iPhone satisfies the trust aspect.
From the Apple Watch's Apple Pay page:
Now paying in stores happens quickly and easily — there’s no need to open an app. You don’t even need to have your iPhone with you.
[...]
Even if you lose Apple Watch, your accounts are protected. Because when you set up Apple Pay, you’re required to create a passcode. Each time you take Apple Watch off your wrist, the passcode must be entered to access it.
 

billeh

Member
It would be cool if they allowed you to send out quick messages by just drawing the characters on the screen. Kind of like Palm Pilot Graffiti mixed with the system they have for sending penis doodles. Probably quicker to just whip out the iPhone, but it would be neat.
 

iMax

Member
To clarify to anyone wondering, you have sixty days from the date of delivery to add AppleCare+ do your Apple Watch, pending a quality inspection in the Apple Store.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Force Touch is weird because it doesn't seem to do anything consistently across apps. Sometimes it doesn't do anything at all.

It's basically a "I don't see a button for the thing I want to do so show me more options" button.


Is there a long press action? Or is force touch basically just a long press equivalent? Wonder why they bothered to make it forc based, when people are used to long pressing on touch screens?
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Have there been any reports of the watch killing your iphones battery faster?

Using the watch to manage notifications etc should mean less screen on time for the iPhone. That should more than compensate for needing a persistent Bt connection. I'd guess many people will see longer iPhone battery life,.
 

jts

...hate me...
To clarify to anyone wondering, you have sixty days from the date of delivery to add AppleCare+ do your Apple Watch, pending a quality inspection in the Apple Store.

Or buy via phone and have a remote diagnostic running on it.

yJKHid5.png
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Once Greggs and Caffè Nero get Apple Pay my bank account is ruined.

Surely your debit card already has contactless though? That's pretty widespread (although I don't think Greggs has it yet). I don't see apple pay being that huge a draw in Europe when you can already just tap your debit card.
 

jts

...hate me...
Surely your debit card already has contactless though? That's pretty widespread (although I don't think Greggs has it yet). I don't see apple pay being that huge a draw in Europe when you can already just tap your debit card.
The whole point is that you don't need your debit card, or even your wallet on you. If you have it on you, you don't need to whip it out. It's not the tapping action itself that it's enticing, it's the convenience.

I was disappointed to learn that Apple Pay isn't compatible with europe's current NFC payment systems :(
 

Vyer

Member
GameStop, T-Mobile and Firehouse Subs recently added Apple Pay support. Also looks like NBA stadiums have begun accepting it. Three of them (Suns, GS and Magic) just did. My bank just started supporting it so I'm glad to see a few more places I visit taking it.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
The whole point is that you don't need your debit card, or even your wallet on you. If you have it on you, you don't need to whip it out. It's not the tapping action itself that it's enticing, it's the convenience.

I was disappointed to learn that Apple Pay isn't compatible with europe's current NFC payment systems :(


I thought the hardware is comoatible, they just don't have the systems hooked up?

And while I understand the concept, I can't imagine relying on the phone to the point of not also having my wallet on me though.
 

jts

...hate me...
I thought the hardware is comoatible, they just don't have the systems hooked up?

And while I understand the concept, I can't imagine relying on the phone to the point of not also having my wallet on me though.

Re: Apple Pay in europe, I'm not sure of the details, I just searched for the subject and read this year's news saying that Apple Pay is coming over "soon" to europe, and I had assumed previously it was already compatible with the current contactless systems (I don't have an iPhone 6 so I never bothered knowing that before). I do pay with a contactless card all the time.

Regarding the convenience, it's still good to have that redundancy if you carry the wallet and all the cards with you, you may try to pay with your phone/watch first.

It's good in how it dematerialises into software one more thing in our lives, if not permanently yet. I already use passbook / QR codes to travel and avoid carrying paper tickets, of course there are some concerns regarding battery life, hardware malfunctions and whatnot, but technology will figure it out over time (I think one huge advancement we could get to alleviate some issues would be to have one effectively universal charger, hence why I'm not the biggest fan of Lightning).
 

Blackhead

Redarse
the black Watch stainless steel is very shiny, not deep black. It's not as impressive as the Apple site photos :(


I guess I read it backwards -- Android Wear works with iPhone, but Android Phones don't yet work with Apple Watch. Still though, what happens when someone with an Android Wear device paired with an iPhone wants to use Siri or ApplePay? Will Apple Maps on the watch work with GPS functions on the phone or do you have to install Google Maps?
The point is to question how and if an Android watch can parse commands that require iOS-exclusive features. Or vice versa (Apple Watch sending Siri/ApplePay/TouchID requests to an Android Phone).
iWatch can send Siri/ApplePay/TouchID requests to an Android Phone if they set up those services on the Android Phone. iWatch can use Apple Maps with a GPS location from an Android Phone. Because Android is open that way.

1 million units is really not that much compared to the size of the overall market. People buying a Kickstarter watch or off-brand retail product will problably not have the same performance expectations as those buying a retail Apple product.
Off-brand retail product?! Anyway, you're implying that Pebble isn't aiming for a 'just works' experience for their customers which is false. Apple isn't the only one company who wants that for their customers. Once Pebble started targeting regular consumers by retailing through Best Buy, they've worked very hard on making their devices and software easy to use

But it doesn't have an encrypted hardware elect specifically for storing payment information. It's not a Touch ID problem on the 5S

ok
 

Jill Sandwich

the turds of Optimus Prime
Surely your debit card already has contactless though? That's pretty widespread (although I don't think Greggs has it yet). I don't see apple pay being that huge a draw in Europe when you can already just tap your debit card.

It does, but I have to go through the whole effort of taking my card out, which wears me out and I get exhausted. Apple Pay will make purchasing things even lazier!
Which brings me to this: What's the hold up in Europe? We have NFC pretty much everywhere already, surely it'd be an easier roll out than the US which have to upgrade their terminals.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
It does, but I have to go through the whole effort of taking my card out, which wears me out and I get exhausted. Apple Pay will make purchasing things even lazier!
Which brings me to this: What's the hold up in Europe? We have NFC pretty much everywhere already, surely it'd be an easier roll out than the US which have to upgrade their terminals.

Visa/MasterCard have to change their backend system to support tokenisation. Visa are doing it this year I think.

ApplePay is more secure than what they'd already rolled out.
 

jts

...hate me...
There are several people on the macrumors forum who did the same as you - used a forwarding service - and they have been getting their orders canceled. So, you're not home free yet.
Thanks for the heads up. That OP seems to have his situation cleared up (in a later post), however I'll keep that in mind. And if it comes down to it and there's nothing I can do about it... I'll wait for the official launch without much drama.

Noticed knockoff Milanese loops are on Amazon for half the price at 75 bucks. Not in stock, but I'll be taking a look at these at some point.
Be sure to check for quality and user reviews before jumping the gun. I get suspicious as hell when these knock-off sellers use stock pictures of the authentic products.
 
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