Macho Madness
Member
If you are not properly registered to vote today and you know that, DO NOT go to the polls. You will waste everyone else's time, you will not be able to vote, and if you sign an affadavit ballot you are risking perjury.
April U.S. Primaries |OT| Vote in 20 Turns for World Leader
- Thread starter dramatis
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boiled goose
good with gravy
More Mockery. Bernie Sanders will likely not win, but when the most progressive Senator who is an old Jew with no religion and identifies as a socialist Democrat runs a competitive primary and wins the young vote by 40+ points and breaks individual contribution records, the revolution is no longer happening, in some ways it already did...
I know, and that's great for future presidential elections, but it's not really a revolution when this same progressive minded-ness and enthusiasm isn't being carried over to state and congressional elections. If the last eight years weren't proof enough, it's not enough to just elect a cool president.
boiled goose
good with gravy
It is a fair criticism. But also fair to point out the problems with Obama. And not the silly attacks from the right, but some of the legitimate criticisms from the left.
He played the game. He didn't "change the way the game is played". Would Bernie? Don't know. But if you look at his decades in politics it's clear he has not been playing that game. His support is also not because of that game, unlike Obama in 2012.
Read my previous post. The current game favors Republicans. Can't play on those terms.
In like 90 percent of local races the candidate with more money wins. Is the long term strategy of the Democrats to out raise Republicans? Good luck to them and good luck to democracy in the US.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Is pivoting to the general overinflated? When did Obama do it?
And I'm already tired of this shit. We have 6 full months ahead of us. The debates for the general election are gonna be the real start.
This is not a defense of Bernie. I've been tired of him for 3 months, at least.
And I'm already tired of this shit. We have 6 full months ahead of us. The debates for the general election are gonna be the real start.
This is not a defense of Bernie. I've been tired of him for 3 months, at least.
Dash_Riprock
Member
I think there was an article that basically said that the 8 years of Obama (along with simple demographic changes) has moved the center to the left, meaning that democrats don't have to pivot nowhere near as much as they used to, and Republicans have to pivot so much that they end up alienating their base.
It was make or break almost 2 months ago.
He broke.
Macho Madness
Member
I mean sure. Every contest is.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Only for the semi true believers.
What does that have to do with what I said? The president doesn't get shit done alone. If you want a revolution in how things get done, if you want a more progressive government, you need to extend that support and passion across the board to local, state, and congressional races. That's all I'm saying. It doesn't feel like a lot of the political revolution rhetoric reaches much further beyond Bernie himself, and that's probably not unrelated to the fact that Bernie has done little to nothing to support races that aren't his own.
The long-term strategy is to appoint a SCOTUS justice (or two or three) that would overturn Citizens United when given the chance, and to build a more liberal Congress that can actually pass campaign finance reform laws.
But, again, all of that requires broad down-ticket support. President Sanders can nominate the most liberal person in the country for SCOTUS, it won't mean a damn thing if he doesn't have enough like-minded people in the Senate to confirm or like-minded people across both houses to pass friendly legislation.
boiled goose
good with gravy
If he keeps it close or wins, he has a (very long) shot at winning in pledged delegates.
If he loses badly, it is very very very unlikely that he will make up the difference elsewhere. Super Tuesday 2 was the first major crippling move. A decisive victory in NY for Clinton would be essentially a break.
Or, you know, learns how to compromise.
More well deserved mockery. Sanders is running against the single most attacked, demonized, and vilified politician in recent history, with Citizen's United existing specifically to enable previously unacceptable levels of attack on her specifically.
Sanders is polling right where any "not Hillary" candidate would likely land. The "not Hillary" sentiment comes from the younger voters because they're too uninformed to know what the hell they're really talking about (see Occupy Wall St. as a shining example).
Unfortunately for Sanders no revolution is happening or happened. The youth vote turnout is statistically the same as in 2008. That did not portend any form of real development of a youth voting block in 2010, 2012, or 2014.
Sanders entire campaign is a mirage built on over-projection of the notion that by electing a POTUS we can all sit back and ignore the next four years. Mockery is, frankly, the nicest response his supporters should receive.
legacyzero
Banned
My Twitter feed is just OOZING of Voter Suppression and shady shit happening in New York. Closed polls, malfunctioning booths, disappearing registrations, even the fact that indies can't vote.
That's a shit show.
That's a shit show.
Independents can't vote because it's a closed primary. If you move and don't update your registration then you can't vote either. I'm willing to bet most of the rest of it is made-up.
Keep mocking Bernie supporters. Can't wait for when you are begging for their vote come November.
I think I fall under one of those. It looks like my "switch" from independent to Democrat didn't happen. Even though I did it before the deadline.
I think I fall under one of those. It looks like my "switch" from independent to Democrat didn't happen. Even though I did it before the deadline.
Who are indies voting for? It's a closed primary.
https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/on-becoming-anti-bernie-ee87943ae699#.nde4b89cc
Has this been linked yet? Absolutely spot on, and it almost explains my change in allegiance to a tee.
Long, but really good... And should be required reading.
I hate to contribute to a post that will likely be piled on... But this is what we're talking about. You're angry about this, but clearly you don't understand how the primary works in this state. I feel that many Sanders supporters are equally as ill-informed.
Has this been linked yet? Absolutely spot on, and it almost explains my change in allegiance to a tee.
Long, but really good... And should be required reading.
I hate to contribute to a post that will likely be piled on... But this is what we're talking about. You're angry about this, but clearly you don't understand how the primary works in this state. I feel that many Sanders supporters are equally as ill-informed.
legacyzero
Banned
Sure. But that's the actual problem. Just because they dont want to tie down to a party, doesn't mean they shouldn't have a say. Doesn't make it any less suppressive.
Oh I do, and I think it's a problem. This is why I stopped coming into these threads because Sanders supporters keep getting belittled with posts like this.
DR2K
Banned
Most Bernie Supporters didn't even bother to vote for Bernie.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Therearedozensofus.gif
If Bernie supporters need to be begged to support the democratic nominee then that really says a lot about them.
legacyzero
Banned
Basically. Hillary supporters keep smugly telling me "Look at the math!" when the math keeps closing. And how convenient that I see the phrase "That's just the rules" or "Obviously you dont understand how a Closed Primary works!"
How convenient, considering it's working in Hilary's favor.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Why's that?
In what way is the math closing?
legacyzero
Banned
What. You mean supporters understand that Hillary's past, conflicts of interest, shady flip flops should be acceptable? That supporters should just be ok with the kind of person she has been and is?
That's tough to swallow. Even I was a Hillary supporter when she announced her campaign, until I read up on her from the 90's.
Perhaps help people understand why they should vote for Hillary with discussion and reason before you attack them?
The delegate lead has been slowly shrinking, polls are starting to balance out (Especially nationally), and Bernie stands a better chance against Trump in the GE.
It's all "Made up"
http://www.wnyc.org/story/de-blasio-demands-explanation-boe-drops-126000-brooklyn-democrats/
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-broken-machines-late-polls-article-1.2606810
http://nypost.com/2016/04/19/54000-brooklyn-voters-vanish-ahead-of-primary-day/
Should they? It's not the general election. If you want to point to undemocratic processes, caucuses should be your first concern.
I think those issues would ring a lot more honest if those people cared about how suppressive caucuses work.
Caucuses, NY's voter switch deadline, Voter ID, and closed primaries all are issues that must be dealt with, yet they've become proxy wars for our candidates of choice. It's annoying, because it's super transparent.
For what it's worth, I'd have a lot less problems with closed primaries if the deadline to switch was something like last week, or they had same day voter registration.
Sorry, I don't agree with this. You should register under the party you identify with if you'd like to have a voice in who that party nominates. It's one of the benefits of declaring Republican or Democrat over Independent when registering.
There's posts in my Facebook feed telling them to cast "provisional ballots" (I had no idea that even existed in a primary?). I assume they're hoping for some sort of... mistake? Controversy? I have no idea.
Aaron Strife
Banned
I'm going to have really bad news for you in about nine hours.
In a way that the orders of states that were set up by a calendar set months ago means that Bernie was graced with a string of favorable states based on his demographic profile, the way that Hillary is about to over the next week or so.
legacyzero
Banned
I'm in Wisconsin. Scott Walker LOOOOOVES his Voter ID. It had a big impact here. Thankfully we have same day registration
Agreed. There really ought to be a federal process IMO. For consistency and fairness.
Hell no. You shouldn't have to jump through arbitrary hoops just to get your vote out. Literally none of that helps anyone. Especially for folks who aren't in the know about how the process works, they get shut out SIX MONTHS before primary day. It's absolute bullshit.
I heard the same thing on March 8th.
Okay.
But my point was more that the spirit of these fights are not actually about people thinking that closed primaries are bad or the caucuses are bad but more that people are treating these as proxy fights without actually complaining about the issues at hand and how NY's various systems and caucuses get people not to vote.
Can someone convince me why a non-Democrat should have a say in choosing the Democratic nominee or why a non-Republican should have a say in choosing the Republican nominee? If you're not a member of that party, why should you determine who that party puts up?
It's probably healthier for the party in the long term to get people who aren't associated with the party but might gravitate towards those types of candidates to have a say.
I don't think that Republicans should be able to vote in Democratic primaries or Democrats in Republican primaries.
So the alternatives are better? You'd rather have a racist, piece of shit like Trump or a homophobobic creeper like Cruz in office? Sorry, but most people (and that includes most Bernie supporters, thankfully) aren't going to let that happen. And that means voting for a candidate that isn't ideal. Surprise! That's how almost every election works. You vote for who you think will do a better job representing your interests, even if that person isn't very likable or doesn't fully represent your views. The "revolution" doesn't continue by allowing a republican to take the White House. So if you think not voting is what's best for the country and what Bernie himself would want from his supporters, then you're living in a fantasy world.
1. It's been slowly shrinking because he's won a string of smaller white-majority states, most of which he was leading in polls beforehand. It's just about mathematically impossible for him to win the nomination if he doesn't win New York and California by fairly wide margins. Do you really see that happening when he's down in the polls by double-digits? Hardcore Bernie supporters at this stage remind me of Romney in 2012. "It's not over yet!" Yeah sorry, but it's over.
2. GE polls during the primary are mostly meaningless. Even nation-wide polls during GE carry very little weight.
Because NYs cut off date to switch parties was in OCTOBER in a state with 25% people not associated with a party. OCTOBER.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-parties-in-new-york-than-in-any-other-state/
There are no extra hoops with closed primaries - you either identify with a party during registration and participate or don't. It's not complicated. Having a cutoff date so people aren't switching parties last minute to choose which primary they want to influence is a good thing. Primaries are not national elections.
Now if we're talking the October cutoff for party affiliation in NY, that's worth looking at. I agree that's too early.
legacyzero
Banned
Maybe to have the chance to win over somebody from the other side? It aint impossible. But if somebody is locked down A HALF YEAR before the votes even go down, and for some reason wants to vote more sensibly, they cant.
My aunt is Republican, and thinks the offering in that party so far is liquid shit, and refused to vote for any of them. My suggestion was to consider Hilary who I view as more center, and closer to her views than say Bernie.
If she lived in New York, she'd be screwed.
God no. I know the difference. But yeah, I'd have to be swallowing the Lesser-of-two-evils pill and vote Hillary, knowing that she's the more sane option.
None of that makes any sense. So what, if somebody wants to change party stance, that should be their right. Period.
Yep. How very convenient. And if this process somehow affected Hillary's chances, we'd hear the same commentary from her supporters. But right now I'm seeing "It's just the rules, bruh".
Considering that most people in NY probably didnt know who Bernie Sanders was back in October and 25% of the state is unaffiliated with a party...
Chill guys, unless someone scores a big win(10+ points for Hillary or any type of victory for Sanders), the race won't shift too much on the Dem side. Bernie will still be a long shot where he needs to win the rest of the States by considerable margins while Hillary basically just needs to defend her positions and not allow too many voters to jump ship.
Also NY Primary rules are archaic but I guess some people prefer them
Also NY Primary rules are archaic but I guess some people prefer them
titiklabingapat
Member
In a two way race, he is simply consolidating the typical candidates that the leftist liberal activist wing of the party usually vote for. It has happened before, what makes Bernie different? Most of his supporters will go back to being disaffected voters once he loses, never amounting to anything but a protest vote until they get thier shit together in winning local and midterm races.
ShironRedshift
Member
Slowly going through it and will have to finish it later, but yeah, this seems to be a fantastic read and nails a lot of the reasons I've come to dislike Sanders. And what in the world at this stuff?
that's a good point. I'm convinced!
Inspector Jones
Member
Some of us aren't very strong democrats or identify as independent anyway; I'm not beholden to vote for anyone just because of party loyalty.
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