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April Wrasslin' |OT| Porsha! Get my damn shoe!

B

British Monsoon

Member
While I'd still rank Flair as one of the overall best, I guess I mainly take issue with the idea of him being one of the best technical wrestlers in the game, when in reality any one of the Four Horsemen could've stretched him into a pretzel.

Alucard said:
What was Inoki's style? From what I've seen on NJPW World, he liked the mat submission game and would then throw in a suplex or power move here and there to get a pop after building anticipation.
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Inoki's style was simply 'strong style', an evolution of Rikidozan's highly 1960's NWA inspired wrestling mixed with much more of a martial arts, submission flavour. Like Flair, however, Inoki also wrestled a lot of his matches to a similar formula. The opening third is almost always about Inoki showing himself to be better than his opponent, no matter what their strength may be. If they're a brawler, Inoki will out-brawl them. If they're a big guy, Inoki will slam them. And if they're a supposed technician, Inoki will try and stretch them. In the middle third he'll let them get their shine and control the pace of the match, he'll hit a hope spot or two and then do his comeback which either is the finish or leads into the final third, where Inoki goes to town, throws his big strikes and suplexes before picking up the win. Inoki's established match formula is a huge part of what made Vader such an instant success in Japan, as he just came in and dominated Inoki within minutes, causing a near-riot in the process.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
strobogo said:
Ric Flair didn't make anyone famous besides Sting. All of his other major feuds were with already established guys. Bret Hart if you're stretching, since they didn't have a real feud, Bret was a known quantity, and the title change was on a house show. There are a lot more guys that got a win over Ric Flair and didn't go anywhere than guys than guys who had careers made from it. You also completely overlook his shitty power plays he pulled in WCW that led to guys like Foley and Austin leaving/getting fired and his time as booker being a huge drop off from the year/months before.


Flair was the lesser worker in almost every big feud he had. His 1980-1989 ain't SHIT compared to the top guys in Japan during that period. I'm not saying Ric Flair is shitty, but I am saying he's nowhere near the best in ring dude. No where close. So many guys that think he's the GOAT are blinded by the same nostalgia you are.

Triple H (2000 on) is a better Ric Flair than Ric Flair ever was in the ring. HBK and Bret are better than Ric Flair ever was in the ring. Arn, Tully, and Barry Windham were better than Ric Flair ever was in the ring. Terry Funk was better than Ric Flair ever was in the ring. Nick Bockwinkle was a better version of Ric Flair in every way besides the lack of coked up promos. Steamboat was better. Sting was better for most of the 90s. Macho Man was better than Flair. I think a legitimate argument can be made that Hogan was as good or better.
Click to expand...

Bret claims in 1991 that he was getting more fan mail than Hogan. While I don't know about that he gets enormous pops in the very early 90's.
 
J

JavyOO7

Member
Alucard said:
What do you think of the unprotected head butts?

FUI9Zt6.gif
Click to expand...

It was dumb. Also the backdrop suplex that Ishikawa gave to Sekimoto near the end there. I haven't seen people land on their necks like that since those late 90s AJPW stuff.
 
Barrage

Barrage

Member
Fox318 said:
Why not?

Shaemus went heel.
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I agree, Kofi is a natural face and should be seperated from E and Woods.

It really is crazy to go back when Kofi was an upper-mid carder and see how over he was. And i'm not even talking about hwne he was feuding with Orton and on the cusp of main-eventing (too bad they didn't pull the trigger), but afterwards. It was only two years ago he lose the U.S. Title to Ambrose. That was the beginning of the end.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Kofi's entire move set is basically face spots. I don't think he'd work as a heel without a major overhaul.

And to echo what I said a page or two ago, Flair wrestled the same match all the time but he was pretty good at having that one match.

Man God said:
Bret claims in 1991 that he was getting more fan mail than Hogan. While I don't know about that he gets enormous pops in the very early 90's.
Click to expand...

I could believe Bret was getting more fan mail at the time. Hogan's popularity was in decline and Bret was pretty over, plus he had the added boost of being more attractive to ladies than Hogan was.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Bret is almost certainly the next big thing/man of the 1990's in 1990. In the end though he is basically king of transitional champions. D-Bry will end up the same way most likely and that's sort of a best case scenario.
 
J

JavyOO7

Member
Kofi should turn heel. And I think he can do it. So can Big E and Xavier. These gentlemen are all stale, in character and in the ring. Bringing more attitude and doing bad guy things would freshen up the act.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
Sephzilla said:
There's no way in hell I'd say Hogan was a better in ring worker than Flair.
Click to expand...
Let me tell you something brother jack, with those kind of huge body slams and massive leg drops, you might say the Hulkster was the most technical wrestler in the last 1,000 years. Billions of Hulkamaniacs will all agree.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
Liquidsnake said:
SMH
Click to expand...

Ric Flair absolutely wasn't as good as Terry Funk, Arn Anderson, Macho Man, or Ricky Steamboat. It's debatable where he falls against Harley (as most of Harley's prime years haven't been seen by a lot of people) and Sting (as Sting was better than him for most of the 90s). Vader, Rick Rude, and Stunning Steve were definitely better than him in 1993.

Liquidsnake said:
SMH
Click to expand...

Hogan was good. Especially pre-1988ish when he went full formula all the time. He stuck to the formula as much as Flair, but his matches made more sense and guys who had big feuds with Hulk literally were able to work the rest of their careers as top or semi-main event guys. Hulk in Japan used more psychology than Flair ever did. Promos are pretty much equal.
 
M

Masquerader

Member
strobogo said:
Ric Flair didn't make anyone famous besides Sting. All of his other major feuds were with already established guys. Bret Hart if you're stretching, since they didn't have a real feud, Bret was a known quantity, and the title change was on a house show. There are a lot more guys that got a win over Ric Flair and didn't go anywhere than guys than guys who had careers made from it. You also completely overlook his shitty power plays he pulled in WCW that led to guys like Foley and Austin leaving/getting fired and his time as booker being a huge drop off from the year/months before.


Flair was the lesser worker in almost every big feud he had. His 1980-1989 ain't SHIT compared to the top guys in Japan during that period. I'm not saying Ric Flair is shitty, but I am saying he's nowhere near the best in ring dude. No where close. So many guys that think he's the GOAT are blinded by the same nostalgia you are.

Triple H (2000 on) is a better Ric Flair than Ric Flair ever was in the ring. HBK and Bret are better than Ric Flair ever was in the ring. Arn, Tully, and Barry Windham were better than Ric Flair ever was in the ring. Terry Funk was better than Ric Flair ever was in the ring. Nick Bockwinkle was a better version of Ric Flair in every way besides the lack of coked up promos. Steamboat was better. Sting was better for most of the 90s. Macho Man was better than Flair. I think a legitimate argument can be made that Hogan was as good or better.
Click to expand...

... If I may, perhaps the best way to describe Flair is how he COULD be the absolute best... If he put 100% effort into more matches. He proved on multiple occasions that he could indeed work some of the absolute best matches known to humanity. He was brilliant, but lazy, and that's a valid complaint, I admit. To deny that he had talent would, however, be incorrect. That said, I will concede that he resembles Cena/Hogan moreso than most people will ever realise. It's just that the same match he put on 95% of the time was generally more enjoyable than the same ol' Hogan or Cena match 95% of the time.

He'll never not be my favourite wrestler of all time, but admittedly, when it came to actual wrestling, overall, Bret was better. The few astonishing (I would go so far as to say perfect) matches Flair put on don't really compare to the frequent great matches Bret put on.

However... In response to the bolded, I am still suddenly imagining how you would look through a ham slicer.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Totally off topic - What is with Terminator movies ruining their biggest plot moments in trailers?

Terminator 2 spoils the "Arnold is actually good in this movie" part even though the whole first act of T2 is built around making the audience he's evil

I'm pretty sure Terminator 3 spoiled the whole "the world ends" part of the ending.

Terminator Salvation spoiled the whole Sam Worthington doesn't know he's a Terminator twist in its trailer.

Tyrmynatyr Gynysys's trailer spoiled
John Conner being a fucking Terminator
 
S

somedevil

Member
For All the Roman Reigns fans this happened:

Roman Reigns comes out to a nice pop and is interviewed in the ring by Booker T. Reigns was met with Suplex City chants and then interrupted by Big Show, who chokeslammed him on top of one of the taxis on the stage. Reigns was stretchered to the back.
Click to expand...

WWE giving the British fans what they want.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
Masquerader said:
... If I may, perhaps the best way to describe Flair is how he COULD be the absolute best... If he put 100% effort into more matches. He proved on multiple occasions that he could indeed work some of the absolute best matches known to humanity. He was brilliant, but lazy, and that's a valid complaint, I admit. To deny that he had talent would, however, be incorrect. That said, I will concede that he resembles Cena/Hogan moreso than most people will ever realise. It's just that the same match he put on 95% of the time was generally more enjoyable than the same ol' Hogan or Cena match 95% of the time.

He'll never not be my favourite wrestler of all time, but admittedly, when it came to actual wrestling, overall, Bret was better. The few astonishing (I would go so far as to say perfect) matches Flair put on don't really compare to the frequent great matches Bret put on.

However... In response to the bolded, I am still suddenly imagining how you would look through a ham slicer.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying Flair was bad. I'm saying he's not anywhere close to the GOAT, which most guys aren't.
 
M

Mr. Luchador

Member
Sephzilla said:
Totally off topic - What is with Terminator movies ruining their biggest plot moments in trailers?

Terminator 2 spoils the "Arnold is actually good in this movie" part even though the whole first act of T2 is built around making the audience he's evil

I'm pretty sure Terminator 3 spoiled the whole "the world ends" part of the ending.

Terminator Salvation spoiled the whole Sam Worthington doesn't know he's a Terminator twist in its trailer.

Tyrmynatyr Gynysys's trailer spoiled
John Conner being a fucking Terminator
Click to expand...

Whoever directs and cuts the trailers are dumb, I hate most movie trailers as they're just a straight up 'best bits' slice of the movies, and not really teasing or causing intrigue. It's basically like having your pudding/dessert as a starter.
 
F

Fox318

Member
Is the Big Show really that much of a draw?

Outside of his contract does the company really need him?

Wouldn't the be better of with somebody younger in that role?
 
M

Masquerader

Member
strobogo said:
I'm not saying Flair was bad. I'm saying he's not anywhere close to the GOAT, which most guys aren't.
Click to expand...

sting-i-agree-o.gif


He's just so likeable, though. Ridiculously so. I guess that's why people rank him as the greatest? But honestly? He's the GOAT... In the minds of many. But he's not the GOAT... In actuality. In his prime, MAYBE. But even then, it'd be a huge stretch to call him that, and it's not at all considering much of the rest of his career (although it should be mentioned that it did have many high points as well as low points).

That said, catchphrases and a distinctive look get you far in wrestling, even amongst smarks.
 
P

Pop-O-Matic

Banned
Fox318 said:
Is the Big Show really that much of a draw?

Outside of his contract does the company really need him?

Wouldn't the be better of with somebody younger in that role?
Click to expand...

We're living in the #MidgetEra, so they don't have that many options and are going to hold on to Show, Kane and Henry for as long as possible.
 
L

Liquidsnake

Banned
Masquerader said:
... If I may, perhaps the best way to describe Flair is how he COULD be the absolute best... If he put 100% effort into more matches. He proved on multiple occasions that he could indeed work some of the absolute best matches known to humanity. He was brilliant, but lazy, and that's a valid complaint, I admit. To deny that he had talent would, however, be incorrect. That said, I will concede that he resembles Cena/Hogan moreso than most people will ever realise. It's just that the same match he put on 95% of the time was generally more enjoyable than the same ol' Hogan or Cena match 95% of the time.

He'll never not be my favourite wrestler of all time, but admittedly, when it came to actual wrestling, overall, Bret was better. The few astonishing (I would go so far as to say perfect) matches Flair put on don't really compare to the frequent great matches Bret put on.

However... In response to the bolded, I am still suddenly imagining how you would look through a ham slicer.
Click to expand...

He was brilliant but lazy? The man worked 365 days a year. He might have mailed it in against Mario Mancini, but my god man.


Stro please give me your top 5.
 
M

Mahonay

Banned
I have to admit they've done a better job booking Big Show starting at WrestleMania. I mean they set a pretty low bar so that's not saying much. But to me at least, Show doesn't come off as much as a joke as before.

That doesn't mean I don't still think the WWE would be better off if both Big Show and Kane stopped wrestling.
 
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