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Arcade Stick needs! I know I know 'every month'

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
So I'm playing GGXX online, and the xbox d-pad is tearing my thumb up. My thumb seriously is burning from all the fucking friction.
So if I'm going to play, I'm going to need a stick. There's a few issues though.
I don't want to spend too much, but I'd like a usable stick.
I already have a cheap PS2 stick, where can I get a ps2->xbox without having to scour the internet?
Are there any cheap sticks worth it, or should I just build up insane calluses on my thumbs?
What are fellow gaffers doing for playing GGXX on their Xboxen?
 

AfroLuffy

Member
Insane Calluses all the way!

Seriously, after two days of intense play you'll start to see results, and on the third day a magical transformation of skin cells will take place, leaving you with a cold, hard, lifeless patch of thumb perfectly suited to your needs.

As for joysticks...on xbox...um..... no clue.
 
I like to think that an "in before ASM" will start someday....

Take the X-Arcade off your list. I like mine too, but the console adaptors just don't do the job flawlessly. There is input lag, and while I don't like to tell people to run screaming from a frame and a half lag, the truth is that in a stupid fast game like GGXX, online no less, a lil' lag'll do ya. For what they cost, X-Arcade should be flawless, they are not.

The XBOX is a sticky issue because there are few sticks made for it compared to the PS2.
You might be interested in this one, but I really don't know where to get it.
cosmo-x-fighting-stick.jpg


Now, the obvious thing to do is to get a good PS2 stick and use and adaptor. I will admit that such a plan has a possibility of working flawlessly, but it also has a chance of inserting a little lag itself. I do not have a good grasp on what works well with what, but I do have stringent ideals which mostly keep me away from adaptors to begin with. There is a chance that ts will work work with no lag, a smaller chance that the hardware will be incompatible, and a much bigger chance that it will work and you won't notice the lag. It's almost a 30fps vs 60fps type of mindset. Once you start down the higher path, you have trouble going back. A lot of people do this, but I think a lot of people of don't realize that they are playing with some input lag. If you are going to put out the money, you should gaurantee yourself a solid interface, that's the idea.

The only off-the-shelf, lagless, PS2\Xbox solution that I am aware of are MAS sticks. A 2 console stick from them will cost you at least $130. Are they worth it? I think, yes.
ASM-MAS-01.jpg


Now one big caveat with the MAS, besides price, is that it gets to XBOX with a PS2 adaptor the same as any guy's Hori. The good news is that the adaptor is made specifically for the MAS and has no lag, the bad news is that you could get one like mine that drops the connection for a nanosecond a coupla times an hour. In a game which automatially pauses when the controller connection is lost, this makes the stick unusable. I've been meaning to get MAS to replace my adaptor, but just ain't done it yet. Some people report no problems with the adaptor, others report more frequent drops than me. It's a damn big caveat. If you seriously consider a MAS, PM me and I can load you up with all kinds of info that will make dealing with them easier. My MAS is a fucking great stick on my DC and PS2, and if it weren't for the adaptor niggles, it would own the XBOX as well.

The final option is a home built stick. This basically means that a unit, be it made in a garage or bought in a store, is re-wired with the PCB from an real console gamepad, in this case a XBOX pad, so that the system thinks you have the real gamepad in your hands. This isn't something you want to go dabbling with right out of the gate, but luckily there are some dudes over in the Shoryuken.com hardware forums that are set up to sell custom made sticks through paypal, or what have you. You could probably get a XBOX stick for less than $90 from one of them, and since they have reps to protect it will most likely be fairly professional. I honestly think that this is your best bet to get a lagless XBOX stick, knowing that I feel that 85% of in-store sticks are trash.

Stay away from Red Octane, stay away from Nuby, stay away from Pelican and Gamester (except for PCB donors).

If SF:AC was out on XBOX right now, then I'd get off my ass and hack my own stick. Knowing that I had an "official" PCB, and thus no lag, it's the only way that I would be comfortable playing with it. But that mode of thinking isn't for everyone, I've already burned a lot of bridges to come to these conclusions.
 

Sysgen

Member
Blah.. The Pelican is OK. It works with XBL communicator, it supports my GC, PS2 and Xbox, no adapters are needed and it's only $50. I took a chance on one and it works.
 

teepo

Member
be warned, it takes awhile to be good with a stick. unless you're serious about fighting games, it's not worth it.


anyhow, i'm using my sammy stick.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Oh, I know it takes a while, but I have a crummy ps2 stick, but it is still more fun playing with that than the regular controller, and the D-pad on the xbox really tears up my thumb.
 
Sysgen said:
Blah.. The Pelican is OK. It works with XBL communicator, it supports my GC, PS2 and Xbox, no adapters are needed and it's only $50. I took a chance on one and it works.

Yeah, we talked about that. The Live communicator works now? What changed?
 
teepo said:
anyhow, i'm using my sammy stick.

Ah... you know I've actually been overlooking these sticks for a bit?

guitly_gear_xx_stick_alone_big.jpg


Ok, now this is a step in the right direction, pretty much solely because I value highly having the most accurate button setup for one game as possible. I hate extra buttons. So whether or not I like the GG layout (I do not) at least this stick is a perfect layout recreation. Or at least I think it is. Never actually seen a GGXX machine, do they really have an extra button just for Respect?

The two things to worry about here are contruction quality and again, adaptors. I've never used a Sammy stick before so I can't testify whether they are good or bad. The Horis and the old Namcos are still really good, so there's a good chance that the Sammy's are quality also. But I don't know.

I can only find them for PS2, which means you are adapting. In addition to everything I've already posted about possibilties of lag and compatibilty, you also have to worry if your adpator is going to use your Live headset properly. I've seen some where you can hardly hear who's talking to you.

So I can't say anything definitive about this stick, I can only list my concerns. If teepo says that the stick is awesome and he goes on live and whups everybodys ass, and not with Sol Badguy, then take his word for it and note what adaptor he uses. I'm as interested as anyone else.
 
shuri said:
MAS needs to update their website if they want my business.

With what? I mean, yeah it looks real '97, but what information are you lacking? Is it just because there is no online checkout feature? Trust me when I say you want to call these people and be confident that they are building what you want. The copmpany is probably smaller than you think it is.
 

DaCocoBrova

Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
SSX-ASCSTK.jpg


I use this exclusively in conjunction w/ a Magic Box. Works perfectly, although I'd like to retro fit it w/ 'clicky' buttons and a longer stick. Still great as-is.
 
DaCocoBrova said:
Works perfectly

There is no way I can say this without coming off as an asshole, but... how do you know it works perfectly?

I thought my X-arcade was working perfectly until I tested it by counting frames alongside a standard pad, that's where I got my frame-and-a-half estimate. The lag simply wasn't noticable, but it had been there all along, fucking up my parries.

I know I've been thoroughly chewed by the lag monster, but we are dealing with a niche in which electronic quality has become an issue. So saying that something works perfectly, if you are anything less than certain that it is so, can be misinformation.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, I'm just asserting that if uncertainty remains, then it is more appropriate to say "It works fucking good enough, asshole."
 

Defensor

Mistaken iRobbery!
I use this and its been great so far for me:

image%5Cps2_tekken_stickk.gif


Tekken 4 stick by Hori. I use it for all my fighters including GGXX. But someone, ArcadeStickMonk, how do I configure this to work correctly with Mame32 and such? Button wise it works great with emulators but most times I can't pull off half circle moves in mame that much even with my Dual Shock 2 controller. Is there like a specific setting I have to use or download to get to pull off the fireball movements?
 

DaCocoBrova

Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Well, there's no such thing as 'perfect' in any context. But it comes off as such. I can pull off stuff quick and I rarely miss getting moves out. It's like butta.

Now, if you could shift gears and let me know if retro fitting the thing is possible...that'd be great.
 

thom

Member
Pelican Universal Arcade Stick (Xbox version shown)
5ohg3


Regardless of the few negative comments made about this stick it works great and wont break your balls financially.

You can also order some nifty buttons from Happ control and start modifying it if you're saavy.

IMHO I would take this over a Hori stick any day of the week.
 

Sysgen

Member
ArcadeStickMonk said:
Yeah, we talked about that. The Live communicator works now? What changed?

I bought Pelican universal at a Gamestop

Slot was on front.

Brought it home.

Cord was too short. Grrrrrr! Had to pull my Xbox out of the cabinet to reach my couch.

Slot did not work either. Grrrrr!

I brought it back. I made sure to make the manager sign that I could do so before I left the store. Their return policy sucks.

I went to J and R in NYC

Slot is on side. WTF

So I brought my own mem card and communicator to store to test before buying.

It worked and I brought it home.

Cord is longer and reaches my couch.

I think the 1st one was an older model. If you get one get the one with the slot on the side and if you can test the slot before leaving the store and / or make sure you can return it for a refund.

Right now I'm using it to play Guilty Gear on my Xbox and Ikaruga on my GC. Yea, it's bulky but it's doing the job.

Free Shipping :) :) :)
 
Defensor said:
Is there like a specific setting I have to use or download to get to pull off the fireball movements?

Nope, it sounds like it's just dropping input. A lot of USB adaptors will do that when console sticks are hooked up to them. I've mainly used the popular Radio Shack adaptors, and I know what you're talking about. Sometimes the whole combination just misses some of your input, maybe a down-forward, and the hadoken doesn't come out.

Almost from day one, I've been using the X-Arcade in MAME and such, and I firmly believe that the solo is the best stick out there for that purpose, so I haven't ever had to mess around and fix that problem.

Intrerestingly enough, I found that my MAS, which is equiped with a PS\2 serial cable, drops input like crazy when hooked up to my PC, and actually performs better when its Playstation cable goes through the USB adaptor.

Almost seems like the PC favors keyboard input, even emulated, over direct-input. That's all I can say.
 
DaCocoBrova said:
if retro fitting the thing is possible

What is that, a Saturn stick?

Whatever it is, it looks too thin to fit Happ style parts into it, which is what I gather that you what. Amercan style arcade equipment extends a fair amount out the bottom, as you can see in this random pic.
aak.jpg


The giveaway is that you said you wanted clicky buttons. Well, if the stick was made think enough to support microswitch buttons, they'd have put them in from the start.

'Course, I don't know for sure if it can't, but if it's got a tapering, contoured body then I really doubt it. 'Spose you could chop the ass off it and build a new bottom to house it, but if you go that far you could build a whole new stick.

If you do open it up to check, I'd like pics
 

Hari

Banned
Who was your mentor, ArcadeStickMonk?

How did you start off in your journey to become an Arcade-Stick-Monk?

What do you think of the Namco PSX Stick?

Do you like VF4?

Have you seen Catch22's custom arcade sticks? They look stunning.
 
thom said:
Regardless of the few negative comments made about this stick it works great and wont break your balls financially.

Including your comments about throwing Happ into it, I agree with you... mostly.

Off the shelf I think the actual stick is crap. I guess several owners are browsing this by now, so I don't say that to offend, but if you mess with a Happ Competition stick or a rock solid Perfect 360, then the stick in the Pelican feels really loose.

But I suppose it is effective enough, isn't it? I'll change my stance to saying that I simply can't stand the feel of it.

Anyway, even if you do change the parts, you still have that spastic button layout. I hate that layout, I... I'm going in circles.

It's just not a product that I could ever be satisfied with, you decide if I have a good reason why.
 
Hari said:
Who was your mentor, ArcadeStickMonk?
The guys at the Shoryuken Hardware forums, quite indirectly, chiefly Armad1llo

How did you start off in your journey to become an Arcade-Stick-Monk?
I bought an Agetec "Green Goblin" to play Soul Calibur with on the DC, then I never went back to pads. The X-Arcade was a huge boost for me to, but I quickly found that I wanted more.

What do you think of the Namco PSX Stick?
They are nice. Currently I favor american style over japanese style, and I like my Capcom sixes straight, so they don't appeal to me personally. But they, like the Horis, are super intro-sticks, ones that you may never have to move from.

Do you like VF4?
I like it but I'm pretty much an amateur. I can do some shit with Pai and that's all. It's really the fault of my weaksauce friends not wanting to play. I'M LOOKING AT YOU DARK10X

Have you seen Catch22's custom arcade sticks? They look stunning.
I know of him more than I know his work. Armad1llo spoke highly of him so I know that I could learn much. This the only picture of his work that I have. Pretty much looks like it was ripped off a Japanese 2-screen VF4 cabinet.
joystick.jpg
 

Hari

Banned
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. :)

Here is montage of arcade sticks made by Catch22.

Catch22Sticks.jpg
 
Do you see those two sticks on the bottom? Do you see what I see?!!

Fiddy bucks say he put the PCB on the outside, attached through a basic 15-pin serial, so he could change systems with one plug, even go straight through to a supergun. I had an idea for a design that implemented that too, but I wasn't as novel as I thought, eh?

That black one in the middle is unique, I guess the customer wanted Sanwa buttons and a Happ stick.

Where does he get those cases? Wood isn't good for top-mount sticks, so he'd have to go plastic to cater to a hardcore VF crowd, but dear damn those look nice.
 

Hari

Banned
Yeah, I see what you’re seeing. :) That is one of the many great things about his arcade sticks.

He makes the cases himself.

I don’t think he still makes custom sticks for sale which is sad because I would love to purchase one from him.

Edit:-

Sorry RevenantKioku for going off-topic like this I don't mean to offend you in anyway.
 

Grifter

Member
ArcadeStickMonk said:
Never actually seen a GGXX machine, do they really have an extra button just for Respect?

IIRC, it's the start button, which of course you can't map on the PS2. I can vouch for this stick if you like the JPN style, as well as most of the sticks you recommend since I've been lucky to have local friends that owned a variety of sticks. My main problem w/the X-Arcade was that the parts felt shoddy compared to MAS and other sticks w/'real' parts.

I believe this stick was made by Ascii, or whoever released the SC2/T4/CvS2 sticks of late.

Keep in mind that a friend bought this stick upon GGXX's original release then was inspired to dabble in CvS2/MvC2 and was screwed on his setup so the SC2 stick would be the smart choice...except for its art. :)
 

Pachinko

Member
I bought a decent one at EB for 40 canadian about 3 months back. It does the trick quite well in guilty gear... to bad the online lag sours the experience a tad.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Hari said:
Sorry RevenantKioku for going off-topic like this I don't mean to offend you in anyway.

Haha, what's to worry, I've gotten my answer (which is essentially I'm boned because I don't want to spend too much on a stick) so the thread may as well go as it pleases.

Playasia has magic-boxes for around $19 with about $6 shipping, so I might just do that and see how it works for me with my current stick. I also found out that you can use the thumb-pad in GGXX, so that hurts a little less, but isn't as accurate. After about an hour I couldn't do quarter-circles anymore.
 

thom

Member
ArcadeStickMonk said:
Anyway, even if you do change the parts, you still have that spastic button layout. I hate that layout, I... I'm going in circles.

It's just not a product that I could ever be satisfied with, you decide if I have a good reason why.


The button layout doesn't bother me at all and the xbl communicator port is a nice plus

(although NOBODY uses it in games like CVS2 on live).


With this said about 60 bucks and some tinkering around will fetch you a nice stick. Good

enough for a guy like me that doesn't play enough to invest in a controller twice or triple

the cost.
 

Alf

Banned
I got a question for ArcadeStickMonk:

How would I go about adding a Playstation compatibility to a DC only MAS so I could use it on both DC and PS? Is that even possible? I've got a really old Interact digital pad that came out with the original Playstation that i can use for a pcb.
 

8bit

Knows the Score
ArcadeStickMonk said:
The XBOX is a sticky issue because there are few sticks made for it compared to the PS2.
You might be interested in this one, but I really don't know where to get it.
cosmo-x-fighting-stick.jpg

I bought one of them from Lik-Sang, primarily for MameOx. Shipping was about the same as the cost of the stick, but for what I paid it was cheaper than buying a crappy cheapo stick(level 3 or gamester brand, I think) from retail here.

The only criticism I would level at it is that the metal nub(screw cover?) in the bottom left is a bit high, but that's a very minor complaint.
 
Alf said:
How would I go about adding a Playstation compatibility to a DC only MAS so I could use it on both DC and PS? Is that even possible?

This is the inside of my MAS. You will notice an empty controller chip slot labeled for the N64. This means that my PS\PC\DC combo PCB also supports the N64, but since I didn't pay for it, they did not install that chip.
ASM-MAS-09.jpg


So, if your MAS's PCB has an empty Playstation chip slot, then maybe MAS wouldn't charge you so much if you shipped it back to them for installation. It's not like you would need a whole new PCB.

If your PCB doesn't have this slot, then you do need a new PCB. I don't guess that you want to replace your current board, in that you'll lose the DC compatibility. Instead, consider going the external PCB route.

This entails wiring the unit so all the wires terminate in a 15 or 25 pin serial port, which then can be connected to a DC or PS2 controller PCB that you has installed in a project box. Take a look at the guts of that pics I posted way up there. That's a Red Octane box, but notice that the PCB isn't in there. The PCB is in here.
aaj.jpg


Now if you were to do this, you would essentially make a stick that is compatibile with any system that you build a PCB box for. You could always add a new system! Plus, you make the PCB box with actaul gampad PCB so there no lag!

This is a complex direction, to be sure. But it is the right way to do Per-Game arcade sticks.
 

Alf

Banned
ArcadeStickMonk said:
This is the inside of my MAS. You will notice an empty controller chip slot labeled for the N64. This means that my PS\PC\DC combo PCB also supports the N64, but since I didn't pay for it, they did not install that chip.
ASM-MAS-09.jpg


So, if your MAS's PCB has an empty Playstation chip slot, then maybe MAS wouldn't charge you so much if you shipped it back to them for installation. It's not like you would need a whole new PCB.

If your PCB doesn't have this slot, then you do need a new PCB. I don't guess that you want to replace your current board, in that you'll lose the DC compatibility. Instead, consider going the external PCB route.

This entails wiring the unit so all the wires terminate in a 15 or 25 pin serial port, which then can be connected to a DC or PS2 controller PCB that you has installed in a project box. Take a look at the guts of that pics I posted way up there. That's a Red Octane box, but notice that the PCB isn't in there. The PCB is in here.
aaj.jpg


Now if you were to do this, you would essentially make a stick that is compatibile with any system that you build a PCB box for. You could always add a new system! Plus, you make the PCB box with actaul gampad PCB so there no lag!

This is a complex direction, to be sure. But it is the right way to do Per-Game arcade sticks.
My mas stick does have a slot for pLaystation but it might not be worth shipping to and from since I'm in Canada but I'll email them just to be sure.

If I were to make an external pcb box, would i need to completely rewire my stick? I'm not sure how I would go about doing this.
 
Alf said:
If I were to make an external pcb box, would i need to completely rewire my stick? I'm not sure how I would go about doing this.

Well,the long story on that, I'm not even clear on yet, as I haven't done it myself. I don't have any step by sep info currently, but I simply have a understanding of the theory.


The short version is that you'd snip all the wires off of your PCB and then remove the PCB. Then the wires would be fed into a serial port to create one end of the plug. Whatever PCB you were putting in the project box has the wires soldered to it fed into a serial plug in the same way.

Note that you only need to connect the portions of the PCB you'd be using. IE: YOu could lose anything connected to the right analog stick, prolly the left as well, and any buttons that the arcade unit will not use. So if I'm just making a Tekken stick, then only connections feeding the D-Pad, four face buttons, and select\start are used to the PCB.

The idea is that the serial ports on both sides create the bridge that previously formed by the wires going directly to your PCB.

This is a complex undertaking, especially if you haven't dealt with wiring and soldering before. It is further complicated by the factt hat nearly every version of the PCBs seem to have their own tricks to working with them. Selecting the right gamepad donor is important.

You might consider contacting the builders over at Shoryuken to see if they would do the project for you. I will be doing this very project inside a few months, either to my MAS or some other stick that I build, and if you like, every scrap of data that I gather to aid me I can pass on to you. I'm sorry to be so vague, but this is about as specific as I can be on the subject for the moment.

If your MAS has a PS slot though, I think it's worth getting filled.
 
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