sorry I wasn't replying to you, I meant generally we have been acting like the two things are separate but they're not really.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Archer [Mafia] |OT| Wait, I Had Something For This
- Thread starter Ourobolus
- Start date
sorry I wasn't replying to you, I meant generally we have been acting like the two things are separate but they're not really.
I'd guess in that system we'd just move down on the list then?
yeah if you want to make it a little complicated, 2 top town, 2 top scum. top town is +1, top scum is -1, sum and send.
I'm suggesting this system because hopefully we can use the mission system (at least until we have more information) to protect valuable town players and town assets. that's the goal, to have a system that integrates into the rest of gameplay, that also allows us to extract some value from the mission system. Later in the game we might want to abandon it in favor of something more nuanced or to achieve some other specific goal but for now I think the idea has to be that we want to keep mafia out and good town in.
You saw the Gossip chats last game. How useful were they, really? I think Palmer is right in that it's the best protection for surviving Night 1 because...
I think they're as much as a distraction as the chats were. There was only one player who really used his chat to his clear benefit, and he was not just scum, but he's also not in our game. I would prefer to subordinate it to the real game: voting for lynches.
-----------
Hah, if you're worried about that I'll unvolunteer to clear the air, but I don't think that would make a difference now that you've put this out.
Man.... I gotta put you on my scum list now. As stated, missions are groups of up to 4 people that cannot be targetted by the rest of the players in the game, and that's just 'a distraction'? really? it's night protection for up to 4 townies and you act like it's nothing.
Alright, I have catched in the thread again, and it seems that I am often mentioned as a person people think is town, GREAT!
.....But I currently also have the most votes, BAD! and kinda confusing. But hey, at least I am being noticed and people talk about my ideas!
See, this I find suspect. You give no reason for your vote on me except "my gut". This gives me NO way of defending myself. It read to me like you are testing to see if you can create a bandwagon vote to lynch me, because you know i'm town.
QUOTE=Haly;173974602]Mazre was on the dot last game in Day 1. I was going to bandwagon whoever he voted, except squidyj is very valuable as town. Even if he's a KGB covering for himself, discussion is still ultimately pro-town so I decided not to vote for him.
VOTE: roytheone
Reasoning:
1) We're on the brink of voting on whether we should vote for volunteer privileges. If this is not noise, I don't know what is. If you're ISIS, Roy, I know you had our best interests at heart, but so far, this is the most anti-town move I've seen. It's like crowdsourcing fluff generation.
2) We have a three way tie, down from a four way tie. We're not getting anywhere. On the other hand, Danganronpafia has had 4-5 pages of nonstop discussion and voting. We need a majority to move things along.
[/QUOTE]
See, Haly here at least gives a couple of reasons, so I have the chance to reply and explain. Haly, please believe me: it was NEVER my intention to create noise. I just saw a system that was obviously in favor of the KGB and wanted to start a discussion about ways to change that. I now my proposed system is far from ideal, and it never was my intention to get that exact same system in place, I just wanted other people to think about the problem and come with solutions of their own. Like your own "gentleman's agreement" system, I think it may work, it is at least better than the basic first come. I did this as soon as possible on the first day because, let's be honest, we really don't have much to discuss/talk about yet. All accusations are mostly wild guesses or hunches, so I thought a discussion about something that will be important throughout the whole game would be possible on day 1.
Eh, this was a response to squidyj request for a quick, on the fly list of mafia members. It was never meant as a extremely serious accusation toward anyone. I still think however that the mafia will be planing to have at least one member on every mission, just to keep an eye on everyone.
.....But I currently also have the most votes, BAD! and kinda confusing. But hey, at least I am being noticed and people talk about my ideas!
See, this I find suspect. You give no reason for your vote on me except "my gut". This gives me NO way of defending myself. It read to me like you are testing to see if you can create a bandwagon vote to lynch me, because you know i'm town.
QUOTE=Haly;173974602]Mazre was on the dot last game in Day 1. I was going to bandwagon whoever he voted, except squidyj is very valuable as town. Even if he's a KGB covering for himself, discussion is still ultimately pro-town so I decided not to vote for him.
VOTE: roytheone
Reasoning:
1) We're on the brink of voting on whether we should vote for volunteer privileges. If this is not noise, I don't know what is. If you're ISIS, Roy, I know you had our best interests at heart, but so far, this is the most anti-town move I've seen. It's like crowdsourcing fluff generation.
2) We have a three way tie, down from a four way tie. We're not getting anywhere. On the other hand, Danganronpafia has had 4-5 pages of nonstop discussion and voting. We need a majority to move things along.
[/QUOTE]
See, Haly here at least gives a couple of reasons, so I have the chance to reply and explain. Haly, please believe me: it was NEVER my intention to create noise. I just saw a system that was obviously in favor of the KGB and wanted to start a discussion about ways to change that. I now my proposed system is far from ideal, and it never was my intention to get that exact same system in place, I just wanted other people to think about the problem and come with solutions of their own. Like your own "gentleman's agreement" system, I think it may work, it is at least better than the basic first come. I did this as soon as possible on the first day because, let's be honest, we really don't have much to discuss/talk about yet. All accusations are mostly wild guesses or hunches, so I thought a discussion about something that will be important throughout the whole game would be possible on day 1.
Eh, this was a response to squidyj request for a quick, on the fly list of mafia members. It was never meant as a extremely serious accusation toward anyone. I still think however that the mafia will be planing to have at least one member on every mission, just to keep an eye on everyone.
Pure speculation on my part but I'm not convinced they will be entirely safe. Sure a KGB member going for the kill is going to be risky and pointless at this stage in the game as a player dying in that group is a massive red flag. However if we conspire the get our most town players in the group and say an KGB investigator slips in, then we fucked up.
This is incorrect. roy posted this:
Before I mentioned my suspicion at the early volunteers. I'd only posted my weariness on the mission system before this post.
Can I also bring up this:
You say I have bad logic when I say possibly one of these volunteers are KGB, and you completely miss Enker raising the idea of all of them being KGB?
so if we don't put them in there and they're still our most town players and the kgb investigator stays out he investigates them anyways. I fail to see how it is worse to put them in the mission than it is to not put them in the mission.
you're right I was thinking of GreatLord Tiger. I don't really want to talk about Enker right now though.
True. I had forgotten we would most likely still be sharing our 'top town' so that kind of information could be about regardless.
Don't forget that if we put our top town in the mission, if they have night actions those will probably be useless. This also made me realize that the KGB could use missions to sniff out ability holders. If someone left behind gets protected, everybody on a mission automatically is not that role.
Trust me, I don't want that job. I've been top-decked enough that I hate RNGesus with a passion.you'd never make it as a Hearthstone designer ouro
No this is a bad idea. Tomorrow we are going to have stuff to discuss in regards to actions that took place at night and any possible implications about the outcome of this day phase without worrying about how we choose volunteers. Right now whilst we have very little to base discussion off is the time to hash this out.
They also can't target anyone outside the mission. It's almost a volunteer roleblock.
If we send all the Power Roles on the mission (the people who should be protected the most), then we just wind up constricting them.
Alternatively, if we only send non-Power pro-town players on the mission, we simply increase the odds of KGB hitting a Power Role, because we've removed four vanilla targets from play.
See how the payoffs play out? This mechanic is self-balancing. A player can protect themselves at Night, sure, but they also neuter themselves if they can get tangible results. I wanted to ignore it because we can use it to harm ourselves, unknowingly. This is why I wanted to make it a nonissue.
Really, I'd rather win a vanilla-ish game than lose because we misused a mechanic.
yes if only there was some way for town to figure out who had what night ability without mafia finding out so that we could avoid such a situation. you see how this is unreasonable and could occur under any distribution of mission participants?
you were talking about last game earlier, how many town-sided night abilities were super helpful last game? Light Sleeper was nice but people didn't use the information well during the day? you know why that happened? because mafia killed all the strongest day-time players.
You are right, but I just wanted to put some potential effects of the mission system on the table. I think there are a lot of effects, consequences and possibilities of the mission system that we haven't thought about yet.
cooljeanius
Member
See, I understand why we have the "no editing" rule, but for stuff like this... gah, that broken tag in your previous post is just going to sit there and bother me, isn't it?
(sorry, I have OCD...)
Yeah. also. I'm going to assume that earlier roytheone wasn't voting for himself, he just fucked up Haly's quote.
Yes, super strong players like...
Tucah N1
Coppanova N2
-- Ezekel subbed in here --
Myself (I baited this one on D1) N3
LaunchpadMcQ N4
-- You subbed in here --
Mazre (revenge killed) N5
Myself (again, but it was actually successful) N6
Ezekel N7
squidy N8
Razmos N10
Wow, it's almost like they killed players who wouldn't set off alarms because this is exactly what they did and why they got away with it for so long. I'm flattered you think me and LMQ were the strongest daytime players, but I respectfully and unironically disagree.
I'm trying to find where, in this kill list, are all these "strongest day-time players". You got a full 3 days of activity, Ezekel had 5. No, both of you were left until the very end where leaving you alive was a real, actual danger. Otherwise you were working for them as much as the rest of us weaker players were.
HHA succeeded mostly because we killed ourselves, and so I think it's understandable that I want to prevent this from happening again.
That's all I'll say on the AC game from now on, I know it's tiptoeing the rules and unfair to everyone else here. I just wanted to make sure no one had the wrong impression going by squidyj's vague, inaccurate statements.
Code:
Town
- mazre
- I have faith in his godlike intuition even if I don't agree with him on squidy
- squidyj
- Bad memory, but a good heart.
Scum
- roy
- Putting volunteer to voting was, imo, anti-town maneuver even if I don't read him as scum per seQuantumBro
Banned
I just realized that we could also try sending all the people who we think are KGB out on a mission and if no one dies we'll know who they are. It'll be like that game mindsweeper.
Yeah. also. I'm going to assume that earlier roytheone wasn't voting for himself, he just fucked up Haly's quote.
Don't assume anything ourobolus!!!! (But you are correct this time
I saw the broken tags!Don't assume anything ourobolus!!!! (But you are correct this time
But what if there are more than four in the KGB? Then we'd might act like "oh there must be good guys in those sent in mission"...
Just because no one died doesn't mean no one tried to kill someone. There are roles with protection, there are roles that can protect others and there are roles that can block players. This is also assuming that Mafia needs to kill someone during the night - did they *have* to kill someone during the night in previous rounds?
If someone dies on a mission, it is reasonable to assume that one of the other participants is the killer, but given how things are set up, I wouldn't be shocked if there are loopholes.
Maybe those were a clever ploy to confuse people into thinking I made a mistake and didn't vote for myself, but I actually did! Did you ever think about that, hmmmmm?
(I didn't vote for myself)
Don't play with my heart, Roy
You saying this is actually what for the first time makes me think that 5 KGB is very likely. Whatever the distribution they could kill in either group.
cooljeanius
Member
QuantumBro
Banned
Fair points, I guess I think there's only 4 because all the other games have been like that.
Still think it might be a good idea to send supposed KGB on the mission so they are unable to use their powers.
So you want to force people to go on a mission? And what if they don't want to? Lynch them the next day? They are already supposed KGB, so they probably know they will get lynched anyway.
QuantumBro
Banned
Oh yeah, forgot about the volunteering process. Ignore my last couple of posts everyone.
On another note, are all of the current volunteers willing to de-volunteer if that's what the majority wants?
Mazre
Palmer_v1
Arkos
GreatLord Tiger
Because if they aren't, there's not much point discussing how to decide who goes on missions.