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[GymWolf]

there's literally not 10 seconds in this game without a stutter of some kind.
if it's not streaming stutters it's these. and the game constantly has streaming stutters.

Stutters can vary on pc dude, not everyone has the same experience, i had super stutter on callisto ps5 and many people had none, i played a lot of games with much more stutter than sh2r, sorry.
I can understand that many people had problems with the game but i had almost none or it wasn't noticeable enough to ruin my experience at all.


And didn't they fixed the stutter with the patches after launch?

Horizon fw use decima engine, considered one of the best if not the best engine out there and horizon at launch had a super oversharpened image in quality mode (that got fixed) and dogshit iq in performance mode (that got fixed), is decima a shitty engine because the game at launch had both modes that were half baked?

 

[luca_29_bg]

I did try a couple of performance mods for Silent Hill 2. I tried every trick i could find on PCWiki as well.

But the game still has horrible random stutters. It's impossible to maintain a locked, consistent frame rate even at 30fps.



You are saying these are OS issues and not game/engine specific?

But not all games perform this badly on Windows.

Did you tried the latest alpha ultra mod ? It's very good on my side, but yes some stutters are still there of course!

 

[kevboard]

Stutters can vary on pc dude, not everyone has the same experience, i had super stutter on callisto ps4 and many people had none, i played a lot of games with much more stutter than sh2r, sorry.

the "my PC doesn't have this issue" argument... sure... or, you just don't notice it, which is fine... but if the best CPUs and GPUs on the market exhibit the issue, the others, less powerful ones, will exhibit it even more noticeably.

And didn't they fixed the stutter with the patches after launch?

nope. nothing was ever fixed.

Horizon fw use decima engine, considered one of the best if not the best engine out there and horizon at launch had a super oversharpened image in quality mode (that got fixed) and dogshit iq in performance mode (that got fixed), is decima a shitty engine because the game at launch had both modes that were half baked?

we know why both of these happened, and we know that they were fixed after people complained. they were very simple fixes and were instantly recognisably issues that happened due to dumb decisions by the devs, not due to how the engine works.
(sharpening filters are literally post processing that can be turned off with a single line of code, and the image quality in performance mode was down to the devs not using enough TAA sample frames to cover aliasing, another thing that can be changed without much of an issue)

we also had multiple other Decima engine games that were fine.

meanwhile SH2 stutters literally every single time you cross invisible loading zones, and it stutters every couple of seconds because it calculates delta time wrong.
these things can not be easily changed, and multiple UE4/5 games exhibit these exact issues.
in fact, the ONLY recent UE4/5 game that I know of that doesn't have streaming related stutters is Hi-Fi Rush. which probably gets away without issues due to it having very simple level layouts and very little asset streaming while traversing the levels.

UE4 was clearly designed with linear game design in mind, and breaks apart when you have an open ended design that requires dynamic asset streaming.
UE5 is basically just UE4 with a few extras, and inherited all the issues of UE4.


can these issues be overcome? yes, Gears 5 is proof of that. however Gears 5 was made by people who are better at making Unreal Engine games than Epic Games themselves, whose big Unreal Engine Tech demo title Fortnite, still has insane amounts of shader compilation stutters.
The Coalition are masters of Unreal Engine 4 and 5, so they know how to actually use it.

the problem here being that Unreal 5 wants to be the mainstream engine for everyone, while having so many inherent issues that you need to be an expert to properly use the engine without your game feeling like a stuttery pre-alpha mess

 

[Laptop1991]

Well if they don't fix them, then yeah they are lol.

 

[Poached_Tama]

Maybe after a decade of CPU advancements they'll get so small you can just lock the game at 60fps and they won't be noticeable.

Decade of hardware advancements
still gaming on 60fps
grim

 

[GymWolf]

the "my PC doesn't have this issue" argument... sure... or, you just don't notice it, which is fine... but if the best CPUs and GPUs on the market exhibit the issue, the others, less powerful ones, will exhibit it even more noticeably.




nope. nothing was ever fixed.




we know why both of these happened, and we know that they were fixed after people complained. they were very simple fixes and were instantly recognisably issues that happened due to dumb decisions by the devs, not due to how the engine works.
(sharpening filters are literally post processing that can be turned off with a single line of code, and the image quality in performance mode was down to the devs not using enough TAA sample frames to cover aliasing, another thing that can be changed without much of an issue)

we also had multiple other Decima engine games that were fine.

meanwhile SH2 stutters literally every single time you cross invisible loading zones, and it stutters every couple of seconds because it calculates delta time wrong.
these things can not be easily changed, and multiple UE4/5 games exhibit these exact issues.
in fact, the ONLY recent UE4/5 game that I know of that doesn't have streaming related stutters is Hi-Fi Rush. which probably gets away without issues due to it having very simple level layouts and very little asset streaming while traversing the levels.

IT is strange because i notice stutter in countless other games but i swear i didn't noticed much in sh2 except some rare traversal stutter that maybe was what you describe as invisible loading zone, but i swear to god that i had almost zero problems in the moment to moment gameplay, maybe because it's a slow paced game.


And if you played on pc for a while, you know that problems can randomly vary from pc to pc, you know it, i know it, it's hardly far fetched and it doesn't depend on how strong your pc is (although it can help with some problems).
You go in ANY topic about ANY pc game and you are gonna read thousands of different opinions on performance, are they all lying?

Ue5 is far from a perfect engine but if to have the best graphic in the business i have to endure some constant but not so annoying stutter that can vary from game to game, then amen to that.

But saying that ue5 is the same as ue4 is as ridicolous as saying that the engine is flawless, i think we can agree on that.

 

[kevboard]

IT is strange because i notice stutter in countless other games but i swear i didn't noticed much in sh2 except some rare traversal stutter that maybe was what you describe as invisible loading zone, but i swear to god that i had almost zero problems in the moment to moment gameplay, maybe because it's a slow paced game.


And if you played on pc for a while, you know that problems can randomly vary from pc to pc, you know it, i know it, it's hardly far fetched and it doesn't depend on how strong your pc is (although it can help with some problems).
You go in ANY topic about ANY pc game and you are gonna read thousands of different opinions on performance, are they all lying?

I recently had a conversation on here with someone who played The Finals since launch and didn't notice that the game has aim snapping (on controller if you press L2 the crosshairs will snap to the enemy and follow him for a second), which I gave as a reason why I basically instantly uninstalled it.

so, I never really trust subjective accounts of anyone online without a MASSIVE grain of salt.

Ue5 is far from a perfect engine but if to have the best graphic in the business i have to endure some constant but not so annoying stutter that can vary from game to game, then amen to that.

But saying that ue5 is the same as ue4 is as ridicolous as saying that the engine is flawless, i think we can agree on that.

best graphics in the business? while using one of the worst raytracing solutions in the business?

but yes, UE5 is a direct evolution of UE4. it's not a complete overhaul, it's just a new version number. and in some ways it's in fact a step back as some features have been removed that you need to manually reimplement if you wanna use them

 

[GymWolf]

I recently had a conversation on here with someone who played The Finals since launch and didn't notice that the game has aim snapping (on controller if you press L2 the crosshairs will snap to the enemy and follow him for a second), which I gave as a reason why I basically instantly uninstalled it.

so, I never really trust subjective accounts of anyone online without a MASSIVE grain of salt.




best graphics in the business? while using one of the worst raytracing solutions in the business?

but yes, UE5 is a direct evolution of UE4. it's not a complete overhaul, it's just a new version number. and in some ways it's in fact a step back as some features have been removed that you need to manually reimplement if you wanna use them

Hellbalde 2 and wukong were arguably the best graphic we had last year and in the graphical fidelity topic, ue5 is BY FAR the most beloved engine, do your math, you may not see it, but majority of the graphic whores in this forum love that engine results.

And something where ue5 shine is making AA developers capable of doing excellent graphic with not much of a sweat, stalker 2, robocop, expedition 33, black cock dawn etc.

Look at the comments about the graphic of expeditions 33 or wukong and then read the comments about the graphic in the tsushima 2 reveal topic, ue5 make a small studio at their first game impress more than a fucking sony first party, impressive if you ask me.

P.s. i was not talking about game mechanics, i was talking about performances and when you use softwares like afterburner etc. You can literally see the framerate and other stuff so people report what they see in a damn software, not everyone is in good faith but it is even harder to think that hundreds of people with different performances are all lying, what the fuck would be the gain for them?

I trashed mh wilds more than most in this forum but the game performed very well on my end, why should i lie about performances when i'm already destroying the game for other stuff? I also fucking hate re engine so i really don't have a reason to praise performances.

 

[violence]

I was worried companies would stop making engines due to favoring unreal and then we're stuck with something subpar like unreal 5.

I mean really, this can go no other way. Who's epic gonna hire to make new engines if nobody is making engines anymore.

 

[BennyBlanco]

The only UE5 game that had noticeable stutter to me on a TV sitting a few feet away was Wukong, but it always cleared up after like 2 mins of playing. Maybe I'm just not playing the really shitty UE5 games.

 

[rodrigolfp]

one of the worst raytracing solutions in the business?

Hardware lumen??

The only UE5 game that had noticeable stutter to me on a TV sitting a few feet away was Wukong, but it always cleared up after like 2 mins of playing. Maybe I'm just not playing the really shitty UE5 games.

Didn't try Silent Hill?

 

[violence]

Didn't try Silent Hill?

He might be one of those people that swear up and down they don't see the stutter.

 

[kevboard]

Hardware lumen??

hardware lumen fixes some precision issuesd of course has skinned meshes in its bvh, but doesn't fix the low ray count and the ridiculously bad denoiser UE5 has.

 

[GymWolf]

He might be one of those people that swear up and down they don't see the stutter.

He would not notice the stutter in wukong if that was the case.

 

[violence]

He would not notice the stutter in wukong if that was the case.

Logically, yeah, but you never know these days.

 

[SlimySnake]

Silent Hill 2 still runs badly. Callisto Protocol still runs badly. Stray still runs badly. Talos Principle 2 still has traversal stutters in certain spots and Luma still has horrible, distracting artifacts.

These are just the ones i played. I'm sure there are plenty more.

AFAIK, these issues can't be fixed with better, future hardware. Patches never fixed any of that and i'm not sure if any of these games will ever get more patches.

So, will these ports be forever bad? Is there something else that we might try? Maybe something like dxvk which managed to fix PC ports like GTA 4 after nearly 2 decades of being bad?

Sh2 is trash because of bloober. Upgrade your CPU and your GPU and you wont be able to see those issues.

Callisto was fixed just a month after launch. Almost all of its issues were due to the missing shader compilation step which was added in week 2. I played it a year after launch and had no issues. Was able to max out just fine.


the rest of the games have been fine.

Ive played:

Avowed - Zero issues
Brothers - Zero issues (just very expensive on the GPU)
Black hawk Down - Zero issues
hellblade 2 - Zero issues
Wukong - Zero issues or maybe 1 issue. Path tracing is unplayable but im pretty sure its due to my CPU.
Kena - Zero issues
Split Fiction - Zero issues
It takes Two - Zero issues
Arkham knight - Zero issues even on my rtx 2080 i was getting 4k 60 fps and this was literally the worst port of all time.
Star wars jedi Survivor - Extremely CPU bound in the koboh town, but a locked 60 fps everywhere else while pushing ray tracing. I was shocked at how well it ran considering how poorly it ran in the towns.

Now there are other games on engines like Frostbite that are utter trash.

Dead Space Remake - Unplayable traversal stutters. Especially when going in and out of rooms.
Indiana Jones - Massively vram bound. cant even enable path tracing. have to settle for medium texture streaming that causes popups.
TLOU1 Remake - My worst ever experience with a PC game and thats saying something. Literally unplayable due to vram issues. Poor cpu performance for no fucking reason literally standing in an alley. 40 minute shader compilations. Took them a month to fix this. But at least unlike those two games above, this was fixed.
AC Shadows - This one i cant run at 4k dlss performance at 60 without setting everything to medium. I have not had to do anything like this with UE5 games most of them i am able to run at 4k dlss quality at high or very high settings.

AMD RX 7900 XTX, AMD R7 5800X3D, 32 GB RAM, PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSD

UE5: I play using FSR3 FG and XeSS upscaling or XeAA, depending on game.

Immortals of Aveum runs fine

Immortals was fine for me until i got to the semi open world level and my god the stutters were horrendous. I have no idea wtf happened. game went from smooth to a complete unplayable mess. reinstalled the game thinking it probably missed compiling shaders but nope, they were all mostly traversal stutters. i was just getting in the game too the combat finally clicked and really wanted to continue playing.

 

[DevilHunterX0]

No, all you need is a modder with a mission.

 

[SlimySnake]

we know why both of these happened, and we know that they were fixed after people complained. they were very simple fixes

lmao simple issues? Dude they literally had to rewrite their entire checkerboarding reconstruction solution and it took them 4 and a half months. The performance mode was a fucking shimmering mess until mid June when they added NG+, VRR support and hid in the performance mode upgrades. They later told DF that they had to rewrite the whole thing to feed the algorithm more data.

The sharpening issue you are talking about was limited to the quality mode. Gymwolf is talking about the performance mode shimmering.

And traversal stutters can be hidden by using faster CPUs. So eventually those worst case scenario issues will be brute forced by faster CPUs. SH2 spikes are awful in the apartments but its mostly fine outdoors and in other areas. I wasted a lot of time in the apartments trying to 'figure' this out, but the rest of the game was mostly fine.

 

[kevboard]

lmao simple issues? Dude they literally had to rewrite their entire checkerboarding reconstruction solution and it took them 4 and a half months. The performance mode was a fucking shimmering mess until mid June when they added NG+, VRR support and hid in the performance mode upgrades. They later told DF that they had to rewrite the whole thing to feed the algorithm more data.

The sharpening issue you are talking about was limited to the quality mode. Gymwolf is talking about the performance mode shimmering.

And traversal stutters can be hidden by using faster CPUs. So eventually those worst case scenario issues will be brute forced by faster CPUs. SH2 spikes are awful in the apartments but its mostly fine outdoors and in other areas. I wasted a lot of time in the apartments trying to 'figure' this out, but the rest of the game was mostly fine.

the issue was the use of checkerboarding in general.
I feel like they should have tried going with a lower non-checkerboarded resolution instead.
native 1440p would have been less demanding than checkerboard 2160p as well

so it was still an issue of choice by the devs and not really much of an engine specific issue.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Didn't try Silent Hill?

No

 

[nkarafo]

I edited my post.

Edit: yeah it looks like something pretty minor, you can include that in the 5% that was wrong with the game i guess.

My experience wasn't worse because of that at all, but i guess sensitivity for this stuff can vary.

We seem to have different standards. For me SH2 is one of the worst performing games i played. I don't have the most powerful PC but this is the only game i'm forced to play at 30fps (with the animation fix command). I even use a performance mod for it. Even Cyberpunk runs better at 40fps (VRR) with higher settings. Yes, it's playable but the random stutters and 30 fps is a bad experience.

Callisto Protocol also has some heavy random stutters. I can't do anything to fix them. Same with Stray. Talos has some of the worst ghosting artifacts with Lumen i have ever seen and it has traversal stutters in certain maps (most of the game is smooth however).

I play all these games from an SSD or NVME. The only UE game that didn't have issues for me was Robocop so far. Granted, i haven't played a lot of the other games mentioned in the thread. But like i said, some people have lower standards on what they deem "it runs fine".

I play a ton of games and the ones that have the most performance issues or annoyances are almost always UE. And keep in mind, when i'm talking about performance issues i'm not talking about hardware not being able to handle the games. I always use settings so the games can run at locked FPS without 100% my GPU. But these games have performance issues without even coming close at that.

And didn't they fixed the stutter with the patches after launch?

I didn't play it at launch. I played version 1.06 and it was terrible. I can only imagine how bad it would be before that.

Did you tried the latest alpha ultra mod ? It's very good on my side, but yes some stutters are still there of course!

I'm using a mod but i'm not sure if it's the same one. Could you provide a link?

Callisto was fixed just a month after launch. Almost all of its issues were due to the missing shader compilation step which was added in week 2. I played it a year after launch and had no issues. Was able to max out just fine.

I played a year after launch and after the last patch.

Im not getting shader compilation stutters, i get random traversal/streaming stutters that always happen at the same exact spots over and over again. And those spots are numerous. Other games may have some streaming stutters here and there but in non-UE games they tend to be rare. For instance, RE4 Remake has some but they are so few, i almost remember them all by memory. But in Callisto Protocol i was getting them every 2 minutes or so. Speed-running it makes it even worse because now i'm hitting those spots even more often.

 

[SlimySnake]

the issue was the use of checkerboarding in general.
I feel like they should have tried going with a lower non-checkerboarded resolution instead.
native 1440p would have been less demanding than checkerboard 2160p as well

so it was still an issue of choice by the devs and not really much of an engine specific issue.

Nah, there were other games like GT Sports, Ghost of Tsushima and Days Gone all using that 1800cb resolution. They did not have this issue.

Point is that they had to upgrade their own engine and checkerboard implementation to fix this. No engine is beyond issues. UE just gets shat on because its the most popular one.

Decima's very first third party title was Until Dawn and Im telling you, that game was a mess when it came out.

No one wants CD project to switch to UE5 but you can go and play the Witcher 3 remaster on PC right now, and you will see the performance completely tank when you enter even the smallest of villages. literally 3 huts and a couple of shops with 10 NPCs and the framerate drops like someone set your GPU on fire. Cyberpunk was one of the worst game releases of all time and took $125 million and three years to fix.

I am not excusing Epic here. They should not have released such a single threaded engine to devs. They fixed it a couple of years later, but gave devs no support in terms of upgrading to that version of the engine. I dont think SH2, Wukong or any other UE5 game that released last year shouldve been on UE5.1 when 5.4 is literally twice is performant. So i blame Epic for that.

But a lot of these shader compilation issues are due to devs being idiots. Traversal stutters can be mitigated by some careful design. KZ2 had traversal stutter when entering new areas. Its not exclusive to Unreal Engine. Devs just figured out ways to minimize them as you went through invisible loading areas. Days Gone had no traversal stutters and that was an open world UE4 game on the PS4.

 

[SlimySnake]

I played a year after launch and after the last patch.

Im not getting shader compilation stutters, i get random traversal/streaming stutters that always happen at the same exact spots over and over again. And those spots are numerous. Other games may have some streaming stutters here and there but in non-UE games they tend to be rare. For instance, RE4 Remake has some but they are so few, i almost remember them all by memory. But in Callisto Protocol i was getting them every 2 minutes or so. Speed-running it makes it even worse because now i'm hitting those spots even more often.

Thats odd. i also beat it several times on PS5 and PC, had a blast speed running the game on NG+, and never noticed them.

What are your specs? CPU, GPU, RAM?

 

[Durin]

Really only 4 solutions exist:

1. The dev eventually fixes it (variable)
2. Epic provides some solution in future with UE that can be integrated into older games (unlikely)
3. A modder with enough free time and skill fixes it (hopefully)
4. Play on Linux or wait for SteamOS to hit desktop, where compiling vulkan shaders for games can help. (most feasible solution)

Otherwise, some of them don't have these issues on console. Stutter struggle is real though this gen, and even consoles are occasionally not immune (launch Jedi Survivor was trash on every platform).

 

[Durin]

Days Gone had no traversal stutters and that was an open world UE4 game on the PS4.

I believe they heavily modified the engine more than most developers that put out something using UE though, probably an unfortunate outlier.

No one wants CD project to switch to UE5

I'm actually ok with it, because I think their team working with Epic could actually improve some fundamental parts of the engine. Novigrad in Witcher 3 with its size feature no load times, was some smart optimization, not even just their engine.

 

[nkarafo]

Thats odd. i also beat it several times on PS5 and PC, had a blast speed running the game on NG+, and never noticed them.

What are your specs? CPU, GPU, RAM?

i5 12400, 64GB DDR5, RTX 3060 12GB.

Keep in mind, i'm playing at 1080p so the game runs easily at 40fps (VRR) but i also tested it at 30fps. So i'm not talking about "performance" issues here where the hardware isn't enough and bottlenecks the frame rate. The spots where the traversal stutters happen don't even have to be demanding areas.

I also run the game from a NVME, the best in the market (Samsung). Tried many solutions, nothing helped.

Oh and The PCWiki lists these traversal issues as "unresolved" to this day:

The game can stutter when moving around in the environment of the game. This is independent from settings or hardware, and is not shader compilation-related as shaders are pre-compiled for this game since the December 7, 2022 patch. It is likely related to loading.

So i don't know why you aren't getting them. No offense but i will just assume you have different standards on what a smooth frame rate is supposed to be and leave it at that until proven otherwise. Countless times i heard people claiming they get smooth frame rate only for me to see otherwise when examining first hand.

Again, i have a ton of games on my PC. I know how to make games run smoothly, i'm not new at this. And 95% of games do run smoothly one way or another. Meaning a constantly even frame rate with a flat frame time. This is what "smooth frame rate" means to me. It has to be even at all times.

 

[SlimySnake]

i5 12400, 64GB DDR5, RTX 3060 12GB.

Keep in mind, i'm playing at 1080p so the game runs easily at 40fps (VRR) but i also tested it at 30fps. So i'm not talking about "performance" issues here where the hardware isn't enough and bottlenecks the frame rate. The spots where the traversal stutters happen don't even have to be demanding areas.

I also run the game from a NVME, the best in the market (Samsung). Tried many solutions, nothing helped.

Oh and The PCWiki lists these traversal issues as "unresolved" to this day:



So i don't know why you aren't getting them. No offense but i will just assume you have different standards on what a smooth frame rate is supposed to be and leave it at that until proven otherwise. Countless times i heard people claiming they get smooth frame rate only for me to see otherwise when examining first hand.

Again, i have a ton of games on my PC. I know how to make games run smoothly, i'm not new at this. And 95% of games do run smoothly one way or another. Meaning a constantly even frame rate with a flat frame time. This is what "smooth frame rate" means to me. It has to be even at all times.

its possible i just didnt perceive them back then, but if the frametime graph isnt a solid line, i literally cant take it anymore and have to set the framerate down to 30 fps just to be able to enjoy a game.

i will download the game and check it again.

your specs are fine so its possible i just didnt notice them. Sh2 on the other hand, i felt every single traversal stutter.

 

[nkarafo]

your specs are fine so its possible i just didnt notice them. Sh2 on the other hand, i felt every single traversal stutter.

Sh2 is definitely the worst of the bunch. Because on top of having similar loading/streaming issues that can't be fixed, it's also much more demanding overall, getting at 100% GPU usage very often at only 30fps. At least Callisto Protocol runs at 40fps without burning my card, though 60fps is still too much for it.

 

[kevboard]

Nah, there were other games like GT Sports, Ghost of Tsushima and Days Gone all using that 1800cb resolution. They did not have this issue.

Point is that they had to upgrade their own engine and checkerboard implementation to fix this. No engine is beyond issues. UE just gets shat on because its the most popular one.

Decima's very first third party title was Until Dawn and Im telling you, that game was a mess when it came out.

No one wants CD project to switch to UE5 but you can go and play the Witcher 3 remaster on PC right now, and you will see the performance completely tank when you enter even the smallest of villages. literally 3 huts and a couple of shops with 10 NPCs and the framerate drops like someone set your GPU on fire. Cyberpunk was one of the worst game releases of all time and took $125 million and three years to fix.

I am not excusing Epic here. They should not have released such a single threaded engine to devs. They fixed it a couple of years later, but gave devs no support in terms of upgrading to that version of the engine. I dont think SH2, Wukong or any other UE5 game that released last year shouldve been on UE5.1 when 5.4 is literally twice is performant. So i blame Epic for that.

But a lot of these shader compilation issues are due to devs being idiots. Traversal stutters can be mitigated by some careful design. KZ2 had traversal stutter when entering new areas. Its not exclusive to Unreal Engine. Devs just figured out ways to minimize them as you went through invisible loading areas. Days Gone had no traversal stutters and that was an open world UE4 game on the PS4.

then difference between UE4/5 and all the other engines you mentioned is that the issues in UE5 make games feel literally broken.
having a demanding game is one thing, having an actually broken one due to being rushed to the market is yet another issue.
but with Unreal Engine games you get supposedly finished games that look broken and feel broken, never get fixed, and examine patterns that other games using the same engine also exhibit.

it's very different having small issues like a small sutter here and there at predictable spots, and having a game whose camera movement isn't interpolated correctly, whose main character has broken animation timing, which has traversal stutters every few seconds, which has such low quality raytracing that certain spots look downright like the denoiser is broken, and which almost necessitates low internal resolutions once you actually use its standout features.

of course a low resolution in UE5 then also by proxi make one of said standout features Lumen, look even worse than its already low potential quality at high resolutions.


the only good UE4 and UE5 games are the ones that use special modified versions, or that use technology that fixes the engine's shortcomings.
like how The Finals uses RTXGI instead of Lumen, which looks better than Lumen even on the below low settings that are used on the console versions, and it probably also runs better, which was likely important for a game with a shitload of destruction and a 60fps target.
The Coalition as well basically made their own UE4 branch for Gears 5 that exhibits essentially none of the issues you typically see.

 

[SlimySnake]

I believe they heavily modified the engine more than most developers that put out something using UE though, probably an unfortunate outlier.

I'm actually ok with it, because I think their team working with Epic could actually improve some fundamental parts of the engine. Novigrad in Witcher 3 with its size feature no load times, was some smart optimization, not even just their engine.

The thing is a lot of the issues have already been resolved by Epic over the years. The problem is that they are tied to different versions and game devs are still releasing games on old versions of UE5.

Some of the fixes are:
- Upto 50% better CPU performance.
- 2x better performance for Hardware (RT) Lumen on consoles
- Auto shader compilation step that captures all shaders for the developer
- Foliage support for Nanite
- Way better reflections and GI in hardware lumen

Sh2 is definitely the worst of the bunch. Because on top of having similar loading/streaming issues that can't be fixed, it's also much more demanding overall, getting at 100% GPU usage very often at only 30fps. At least Callisto Protocol runs at 40fps without burning my card, though 60fps is still too much for it.

try turning off RT. your CPU might not be powerful enough for RT even at lower framerates.

I found a video of a 5090 running this game with a fairly smooth frametime graph lol. So i guess thats your answer. They wont be bad forever. ten years from now when the 60 series cards finally match 5090 performance, you can play callisto without any stuttering.

 

[nkarafo]

try turning off RT. your CPU might not be powerful enough for RT even at lower framerates.

I did but the gains were not that great so i thought 30fps with RT gives me the most value.

I found a video of a 5090 running this game with a fairly smooth frametime graph lol. So i guess thats your answer. They wont be bad forever. ten years from now when the 60 series cards finally match 5090 performance, you can play callisto without any stuttering.

Again, no offense, but i skimmed through the video at random parts and there are some heavy spikes here and there, also the person is playing at a very slow pace so these parts are more spread out.

That's ignoring the fact that the video itself isn't smooth at all, meaning the frame pacing looks uneven. It's very rare for me to find a video of a modern game that looks smooth on Youtube. I wouldn't trust a video capture like this anyway since the software itself and Youtube's compression will definitely miss a lot of frames.

 

[SlimySnake]

then difference between UE4/5 and all the other engines you mentioned is that the issues in UE5 make games feel literally broken.
having a demanding game is one thing, having an actually broken one due to being rushed to the market is yet another issue.
but with Unreal Engine games you get supposedly finished games that look broken and feel broken, never get fixed, and examine patterns that other games using the same engine also exhibit.

You must not have seen my earlier post where i mentioned how I literally couldnt play Dead Space due to the traversal stutters, enable path tracing on my 3080, go into a town in Witcher 3's RT remaster, or literally play TLOU1 with high textures (medium were garbage ps2 era textures) for a month while they worked on fixing it. I am literally playing AC shadows right now and no matter what I do, it refuses to go to 60 fps unless i drop settings to medium which take away that next gen sheen.

I have not had those issues with UE5. The worst was SH2 and it was mostly this one area that had constant stutters. The rest were limited to transitioning between levels which is hardly unplayable. I run most UE5 games at 4k dlss quality at 60 fps. I am on PC with a pretty decent card so there is that but they promised 1440p 30 fps on consoles and have largely delivered on that. 60 fps modes are a different story but its not like other devs like Massive, bioware and Square enix havent delivered 720p 60 fps modes.

You seem to be ignoring several posts where I point out how UE4 and UE5 games did get fixed with subsequent patches just like most broken games do. there are some exceptions like Dead Space, SH2, etc, but overall most UE5 games are fixed just like all other games nowadays that are rushed and see a billion patches afterwards. its the norm in this industry.

 

[nkarafo]

I point out how UE4 and UE5 games did get fixed with subsequent patches just like most broken games do. there are some exceptions like Dead Space, SH2, etc, but overall most UE5 games are fixed just like all other games nowadays that are rushed and see a billion patches afterwards. its the norm in this industry.

From my experience this isn't the case with most UE4/5 games i played personally. I know, anecdotal and all, but the only game i would deem stable is Robocop.

Even some older games that have completed their cycle and don't receive patches anymore have issues. Stray is another UE game that has weird stutter issues that won't get fixed since the game is not supported anymore. Scorn is another one. This game has actual shader cache issues (that translate to sudden small spikes) that haven't been fixed to this day. Now some people claim these issues have been fixed but i tested the game again and again and i still see the same issues. So again, i'm going to assume it's either people with low standards, people who don't notice it for some reason or maybe it's because i have the GOG version and sometimes this version misses some updates though i doubt that's the issue.

 

[Durin]

The thing is a lot of the issues have already been resolved by Epic over the years. The problem is that they are tied to different versions and game devs are still releasing games on old versions of UE5.

Some of the fixes are:
- Upto 50% better CPU performance.
- 2x better performance for Hardware (RT) Lumen on consoles
- Auto shader compilation step that captures all shaders for the developer
- Foliage support for Nanite
- Way better reflections and GI in hardware lumen

Yeah, Epic is definitely plugging away at problems, and bigger AA to AAA games have 4+ year dev cycles, and they'll stick to a specific version at some mid-point of development.

I've still heard on Unreal forums that even their newer auto shader compilation still misses out on stuff, and navigational based stutters are not completely solved either. I'm hopeful we'll get more performant stuff at the end of the gen using UE, and companies like Nvidia pushing neural materials that can compress shader instructions and textures more to even brute-force past problems.

 

[SlimySnake]

From my experience this isn't the case with most UE4/5 games i played personally. I know, anecdotal and all, but the only game i would deem stable is Robocop.

Even some older games that have completed their cycle and don't receive patches anymore have issues. Stray is another UE game that has weird stutter issues that won't get fixed since the game is not supported anymore. Scorn is another one. This game has actual shader cache issues (that translate to sudden small spikes) that haven't been fixed to this day. Now some people claim these issues have been fixed but i tested the game again and again and i still see the same issues. So again, i'm going to assume it's either people with low standards, people who don't notice it for some reason or maybe it's because i have the GOG version and sometimes this version misses some updates though i doubt that's the issue.

As promised, i ran through a Callisto Protocol level and definitely noticed some big stutters. However, they were mostly traversal stutters and while very noticeable, i saw 5 total in 5 and a half minutes of playtime including a combat scenario which ran just fine. all settings maxed out at 4k 50% scaling. For the first two minutes of me walking around the level there are no stutters. The only ones you see are when you enter new areas. Or traversal stitters which can be fixed with more powerful cpus.


Nothing like silent hill 2 apartments which are constant while simply turning the camera. Or dead space 2 which has literally a half a dozen traversal stutters per minute in some areas.



Here is my silent hill 2 footage i took a few months ago to show someone who bad the stutters were in that game. Better cpus hid it pretty well so people didn't believe me.



Here is wukong. The frametime graph is perfect aside from when my gpu hits 100% and drops frames.



Every game is different. Something like Callisto which is linear as fuck shouldn't have those traversal stutters.

 

[nkarafo]

SlimySnake

So your answer to this thread is that more powerful/future CPUs will eventually mask those issues? Ok, that's fine, i also wish they do.

But still, this doesn't warrant defending the engine. Obviously a lot more of the games using it have issues compared to other engines, which indicate that at the very least, it's either harder for developers to fix them or the way Epic markets the engine invites less enthusiastic/not as skilled developers who don't care about optimization and rely heavily on the engine itself, something that would be harder to do in other engines.

 

[Shifty1897]

Callisto runs badly? The game so optimized it is one of the only games on PS5 Pro to support 8k output?

 

[nkarafo]

Callisto runs badly? The game so optimized it is one of the only games on PS5 Pro to support 8k output?

"on PC"

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

A lot of those 'problems' are overblown to hell by DF and Battaglia guy with his PCMR god complex. I've learned that SH2 has some issues only after I've completed the game and stumbled on his video.

UE5 still have it's issues, as do some things in DX12 in general, but there are very few truly bad Unreal Engine ports out there.