SuperSonic1305
Member
Better than TLoU or GTA5? Nothing this year comes close.
Are remasters going to count in GAF's GOTY voting?
- Thread starter Cudder
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Better than TLoU or GTA5? Nothing this year comes close.
Cool, looking forward to it.
And I know it's tough since the rules are becoming more and more blurry. I believe Persona 4 Golden is a big enough improvement and adds dozens of hours of gameplay over the original, so it makes sense it was eligible in 2012. The question of where we separate eligible and not, by % of gameplay or how improved the visuals are or whatever is an interesting question. Also, so many games are Early Access, Pre-Alpha or in constant evolution that it's tough to know. Like, if people vote for The Forest next year, or League of Legends, etc
In my case there's pretty much only Smash, and it surpasses GTAV quite a bit for me, but I agree there's nothing I could see beating either of those in terms of votes if all the 2014 games came out in 2013.
jts
...hate me...
I hope they don't.
And I own TLOU:R, TR
E and GTA V PS4.
I have them cuz:
1) the PS4 doesn't have PS3 BC (which incidentally makes it ripe for re-issues)
2) those are the better versions of those games, which should go without saying. better hardware + more dev time = ????
But I know I am fundamentally enjoying enhanced 2013 games on the PS4.
Some of them were good enough that they could be contenders for years if they just get re-released. Is that fair? Well maybe, but then we shouldn't care about GOTY votings and awards because they chronologically limit candidates when we know that previous years' games could still run. If a game is good enough it could stay in the throne like a king until a new game could de-throne it. That's not the spirit of GOTY awards, I think. That's what gamerankings and such are for.
Game remasters are an exception to the rule in game releases and should be treated as so for GOTY and other purposes. Not even significant updates should change that. Because they're never significant enough to fundamentally change the core of the game. And because those significant updates exist as a justification to charge full price for a partially developed game. Praise them all you want. You would pay full MSRP and then some. "There are better than a brand new game". Sure. They deserve the praise. But they are simply the fruit of iterative tweaking, not original from scratch development.
I like the industry and diversity too much to support HD remasters as GOTY contenders. I'm sure many hardcore "lovers" of those games will disagree, but all we win if one of those games wins a GOTY award is a feather for their cap, while neglecting the enrichment of a chronological list of great games released over the years, had an original game won.
And I own TLOU:R, TR
E and GTA V PS4.I have them cuz:
1) the PS4 doesn't have PS3 BC (which incidentally makes it ripe for re-issues)
2) those are the better versions of those games, which should go without saying. better hardware + more dev time = ????
But I know I am fundamentally enjoying enhanced 2013 games on the PS4.
Some of them were good enough that they could be contenders for years if they just get re-released. Is that fair? Well maybe, but then we shouldn't care about GOTY votings and awards because they chronologically limit candidates when we know that previous years' games could still run. If a game is good enough it could stay in the throne like a king until a new game could de-throne it. That's not the spirit of GOTY awards, I think. That's what gamerankings and such are for.
Game remasters are an exception to the rule in game releases and should be treated as so for GOTY and other purposes. Not even significant updates should change that. Because they're never significant enough to fundamentally change the core of the game. And because those significant updates exist as a justification to charge full price for a partially developed game. Praise them all you want. You would pay full MSRP and then some. "There are better than a brand new game". Sure. They deserve the praise. But they are simply the fruit of iterative tweaking, not original from scratch development.
I like the industry and diversity too much to support HD remasters as GOTY contenders. I'm sure many hardcore "lovers" of those games will disagree, but all we win if one of those games wins a GOTY award is a feather for their cap, while neglecting the enrichment of a chronological list of great games released over the years, had an original game won.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
No, GTA 5 isnt just upscaled. The same for Tomb Raider. There were lots of changes. But The Last of Us Remastered wouldnt count. That version really is just a resolution and framerate bump with a better draw distance.
People will still be allowed to vote for sequels though. Doesn't that undermine your point?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Actually I think its two sequels, if you count Godfather Part 2 and Return of the King
and on the sequel front, I feel like that's a very long discussion you can have we value games vs movies. But for me, video games have a MUCH higher track record for great sequels than movies do for a variety of reasons, and its not something to be looked down on inherently. Many, many, many of the most popular, critically acclaimed, and canonized great games are sequels. You can't really do a sequel a Taxi Driver or Citizen Kane, ya know?
texhnolyze
Banned
You wish.
My answer is no.
My answer is no.
I sincerely hope people don't vote in games just to see if they can put them on the top 10 but vote on games they think were the best 10 games they played.
Your post implies that you think me voting for Football Manager 14 as my 3rd best game last year was a "waste"....
Riposte
Member
Following the established rules as we know them, I don't see an issue with them being eligible in the right conditions. Sure, you can say it is stupid if they win, but maybe most of GAF is stupid. Maybe most of the world is stupid. Think of all the ways so many people on GAF are not qualified to pick the undeniable best games of the year even besides intelligence and taste, the lack of access to those games, the lack of experience with genres, etc. So what? This is the democracy we ask for (and that itself is a democratic choice). The idea of changing the rules is like saying "guys, you are all idiots who can't be trusted, we know this, but this year we going to limit your idiocy while we trust your opinion anyway, have fun"
The best thing you can do is pick and choose who's opinion your care about and make your own aggregated GOTY. I hear people like to put a lot of effort into GOTY lists that makes them worth reading!
And to what Opiate said: "originality" is overrated anyway. It's nice, but not of highest importance. Never underestimate how quickly the desire for originality can be twisted into something backwards and decadent. 2012 happened, after all.
The best thing you can do is pick and choose who's opinion your care about and make your own aggregated GOTY. I hear people like to put a lot of effort into GOTY lists that makes them worth reading!
And to what Opiate said: "originality" is overrated anyway. It's nice, but not of highest importance. Never underestimate how quickly the desire for originality can be twisted into something backwards and decadent. 2012 happened, after all.
Why does it have to be one or the other? It shouldn't have to be that complicated, and I don't think it's worth the effort to try to objectively separate just what's new with what's returning. They make up the collective quality of the game as a whole. However, when the bulk of a remaster's content *is* from the game not from 2014, then a distinction should be made. It respects both camps, IMO... anyway, I just don't want another fiasco like the FFT one, IIRC.
It didn't win two years in a row. People were pissed it won in 2008 so a re-vote was done in 2012 and MGS4 still won.
Riposte
Member
Perhaps the funniest moment in GAF history.
And I agree with VJC, movie sequels and videogame sequels (not to mention "remakes") are not easily comparable, because - duh - videogames (games) are not movies. They should have their own values to praise and not try to ape the patterns of criticism circles elsewhere.
theprodigy
Member
no, but there is a reason the LTTP award exists and that's where the remasters of 2013 games should go
I think enough of GAF plays those games upon release for them to not make a tremendous impact the next year. But gamers are not to blame for zero releases this year matching the review averages of TLOU and GTA V. I would not personally vote for a remaster or remake, but you can thank publishers for having people even consider it a possibility.
Yet in review threads, I see people saying all the time that lack of originality shouldn't count against a game.
Just because we dont like a criticism levelled at us doesn't mean we should artificially change the rules of a voting contest just so we feel better about how we're presenting ourselves. It would be a bit dishonest.
I can also agree with what you're saying in many ways, but well....
I think the best way to handle this would be to have a poll.
Let the people decide, dont you think?
Palette Swap
Member
Yeah.
I clicked this thread with this particular example in mind. I don't care much what it says about the medium or this year but that was my favorite game this year.
To be fair, it has a wealth of new content, it's more a 1.5 than a remake or remaster.
edit: I haven't checked so I might be wrong but off the top of my head, I'd count 2 sequels winning best picture (Godfather Part II and Return of The King). I guess RotK doesn't count. And the actual joke is that Godfather III should have had it over fucking Dances with Wolves.
Edit 2: beaten by JC.
Shivvy_NTL
Member
Yup, TLOU remastered is my favorite game this year followed by GTA5 soo .....
TLOU game of the year is my vote if remastered is counted
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
Sorry, but thats just dumb. There are people who have never played GTA5 because they waited for the next gen/pc versions. So you think those people shouldnt vote for it because you already played it last year?
Come on, that makes no sense at all.
The first one at least makes sense, though it was wrong then. I swear the revoting was trolling. The game is so awful in retrospect.
Wasn't there a thread about this earlier? i remember it devolving into "well fifa 2014 still released on ps2 last year so that gen isn't over"
I'd really like to see that thread though. Enough time has passed for clearer perspectives.
As for rule changes, like Opiate said, it'd be a pretty bleak referendum on us if we thought nothing this year was better than their 2013 version.
Savantcore
Unconfirmed Member
It makes perfect sense. GOTY is supposed to celebrate the games released this year. Old games reskinned take away from the whole point of the award. Suikoden II releases this week on PSN. Can a game from 1998 be my GOTY as well?
MrJonnyBigBoss
Banned
I hope not. I like seeing original works nominated, personally. If I were to go to Wiki and look up Game of the Year History and saw that a certain game won two or three years in a row that'd be pretty sad.
Firstly, that's not true. The Oscars is a calender year, it was two years for the first few years. Films also have to premiere in 35mm, which I don't think they actually adhere to.
Secondly, the absurdity of this coming from someone with a chess avatar is boggling my mind.
Thirdly, who's fault is it if nothing more interesting came out this year? Someone above mentioned a game from last year winning isn't interesting, I totally disagree. Although I think there's no way TLoU or GTA would win, if they did, it would be massively more interesting than anything from this year winning. It would actually be something notable. Bayonetta 2 winning is not notable.
I don't think we should be shaping voting criteria to avoid cliche, it should be to allow GAFfers to vote for what they believe to be the best games issued this year.
To Far Away Times
Member
Voting for remasters is silly.
Unless it's a huge change like RE to REmake (Crimson Head enemies change the game flow considerably, which leads to further new mechanics). Certain events were even reworked to play tricks on players who played the original version. You could legitimately not like the original RE and then love the REmake.
Simply porting a prior release at a higher resolution or frame rate and considering that as a GOTY is silly though. It's not a new game. Just a better way of playing a game that was released in prior years.
Unless it's a huge change like RE to REmake (Crimson Head enemies change the game flow considerably, which leads to further new mechanics). Certain events were even reworked to play tricks on players who played the original version. You could legitimately not like the original RE and then love the REmake.
Simply porting a prior release at a higher resolution or frame rate and considering that as a GOTY is silly though. It's not a new game. Just a better way of playing a game that was released in prior years.
Agree. There will be lots of people that didn't play TLoU last year because they didn't have a PS3. Or didn't play GTAV because they were holding out for a likely next gen version. Yet these peoples' votes do not count if they would pick one of those games?
I understand why people thnk they shouldn't win, but if enough people are new to those versions this year then they should be eligible. If they win, it means other games this year weren't as good - which is the point of a vote, right?
The movie analogy doesn't work because there isn't a barrier to watching it the previous year, whereas with remastered versions on different platforms it is entirely possible you couldn't play it when it was first out.
bananafactory
Banned
The package as a whole, on its own as it stacks up against other releases this year, whether they are old or new.
TLOU an Diablo 3 on PS4 absolutely hold up as an overall gaming experience against every other new game I played this year, like Far Cry 4, Wolfenstein, etc. That's why they will be in my consideration.
Edit: Wait, I misunderstood.
Canis lupus
Member
TLOU will win, again. Mods should be considerate of other games.
This.
You can Vote for a Game the it has been originaly released. If you are holding out because you are hoping for a better Version, then so be it, but don't think that anyone waits for you.
I mean i'm not causing an uproar because i can't vote for Fight Club as Movie of the year, because i watched it this Summer for the First time.
When you are too late, you've gotta accept that.
Fine. I'd vote for FFVI since it came out on mobile this year. Its my favourite game of all-time. Wouldn't be what I thought was the best new game of 2014, but by your criteria, that's basically what I'd have to vote for.
If we do it this way, we should have a rundown of every game rereleased this year in the OP just so people know what they should be voting for. And lets not forget mobile!
Resident Evil was also re-released this year.
So yea, everybody should also put Resident Evil 4 and Final Fantasy VI in the competition. The World Ends With You was also released on Android this year.
If somebody didn't play Ocarina of Time til last month, should they still be able to vote for it this year?
Being behind on the times shouldn't be an excuse for allowing this.
Haunted
Member
We do? shit. What will the top 3 be?
Savantcore
Unconfirmed Member
I know I've used this example already, but if someone went straight from VHS to blu-ray it's entirely possible they missed Citizen Kane on DVD. And when they did watch it, it'd be "Man, that film was great, when it was released and now in higher definition", not "This should definitely win Best Picture 2011".
The Last of Us and GTA V are 2013 releases. Simple as that really.
But that is against the previous rules.
The rule was the game had to come out for the first time the previous year. FFVI for the SNES did not debut calender year 2013.
clutch.as.it.gets.
Member
GTA 5 next gen released this year. The country side feels like a whole new thing compared to the last gen versions. Huge difference in feel and atmosphere.
And honestly if you think old reskinned games shouldnt count... what are all the new AC and CoD games? Yeah, they are exactly that. Have you seen AC Victory? It looks like Unity with darker lighting and some big chimneys here and there. And you will run from point a to b to do one of the same old three generic AC missions we all know.
I couldn't play Phantasy Star 1 until 2007 when I got a Master System, but I didn't vote for it for game of the year 2007 despite absolutely loving it.
jts
...hate me...
Many, many (great) games get released in different platforms in different years. Resident Evil 4, Mass Effect, Bayonetta, GTA 3, etc...
It's good that that gets them to be played by more people, but if we don't limit the GOTY criteria to the original release date, then it just becomes meaningless, no more than a "hey guise, that's the best game evarrrrr" award every year.
I mean, not many people will play Wii U games because, well, there are not many Wii Us out there. Does that mean that Bayonetta 2 should be eligible for GOTY 2015 if it got released on the PS4 somehow, just by the virtue of it?
No, just no.
Haunted
Member
This is also an important point. It's everyone's duty as a judge to be up to date with current releases if they want to vote for them when they're eligible, just like in other media.
That said, visual fidelity and technical prowess is an important factor in the consideration for videogames - it is perfectly likely that someone would think that it is the graphical excellence of current-gen GTAV which puts it over the top as a GOTY contender for 2014 while the mediocre-looking last-gen release of GTAV wasn't worth it.
timetokill, having a comprehensive list of eligible (and ineligible!) games ready up front is an absolute must this year.
After reading this, I'm kind of inclined to agree.
No no, they forgot the skin in Unity, see.
bobawesome
Member
It doesn't matter. We all know Bayonetta 2 is gonna win.
Considering I just finished my 8th playthrough 2 months ago, I couldn't disagree more.
Savantcore
Unconfirmed Member
The "feel" is debatable. I don't think nicer graphics and thicker foliage changes the game at all. It's the same story, same characters, same city and same gameplay - same game.
The COD and AC comparison is a bit silly. They are indisputably new games, with new features, characters, locales and story. Is San Andreas just a reskinned Vice City? FFVIII just a retuned VII? Don't think so.
Haunted
Member
Have enough people even played that game for it to have a chance?
jts
...hate me...
The amount of votes that game will get from people who haven't even played it so they can get a Nintendo game to win will be extraordinary.
And that's not a slight on Bayo 2, it's my GotY.
We have a late to the party category in the voting threads because not everybody can get to everything right away, and frankly, I think it can cover this situation fairly well in a lot of cases, as well.
A lot of games get substantial patches released post-release that change the game quite a bit, but it has never re-enabled their eligibility in the past. CD Projekt Red games, for instance, have gotten free patches that add a lot of stuff.
So what if its against the previous rules? Are you suddenly saying the given rules are not to be contested? Cuz then whatever the rules are this year, you should accept, right?
What? My entire issue with this is that the rules are being changed, how can you have possibly missed that? If TLoU and GTA had never counted, had this situation happened in previous years, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
And no, I don't have an issue with rule changes, I have an issue with it happening now specifically.
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