• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

ARMORED CORE VI: FIRES OF RUBICON |OT| Souls in the Shell

John Bilbo

Member
I guess I just have a different outlook as someone who is usually more into games like racing sims. They can be infamous for their difficulty if you are hardcore about them, which I usually am, but then they also tend of have a bunch of assists for people who want it to be a lot easier. Do I enjoy the challenge of turning off traction control and assists and controlling my car myself entirely with my ability? Definitely. Does the fact that some people can turn on assists and basically have half the challenge taken away effect me? Not at all.
If the racing game is well designed it is difficult to discuss or share the experience of overcoming a particular challenge in the game between players using assists and those who do not use assists as the experiences of those players will differ so much it is like they are playing a different game.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
From Soft has a lot of loyal fans, I get that, but not everyone is interested in a hardcore sweaty challenge. By a certain point it seems like some people simply enjoy being punished by video games, and take offense when others don't enjoy that.
Then there are 1000 up on 1000 other games just for people like you, FROM has their own way making games and people who enjoy what they make without without try to appeal to everyone.

the fact is not all every games for everyone, that’s just life.
 

Sleepwalker

Member
I passed on this because it just seemed too sweaty/difficult. They really need to discover the concept of difficulty options, so they can please all those hardcore challenge fans while making their games accessible to others.
Im shit at games and I beat AC6, dont sell yourself short.
 

YukiOnna

Member
Chances AC6 gets DLC?
Pretty high considering past titles have sequels.

Patch 1.02 is out

I was expecting plenty of nerfs to known OP assemblies so this is really interesting - there is none of that and patch buffs most "cheap" machine guns and rifles, making them likely a more viable addition to a heavy back loadout. Very nice. Curious about the listed bosses' attack tweaks.

Balance Adjustments​

  • Weapon Unit Balance Adjustments
    • MA-J-200 RANSETSU-RF: Increased attack power/rate of fire, decreased reload time.
    • LR-036 CURTIS: Increased attack power, decreased reload time.
    • RF-024 TURNER: Increased attack power/projectile speed, decreased reload time.
    • RF-025 SCUDDER: Increased attack power/projectile speed, decreased reload time.
    • MA-J-201 RANSETSU-AR: Increased attack power/projectile speed, decreased reload time.
    • MG-014 LUDLOW: Increased attack power/total rounds/projectile speed, decreased recoil and reload time.
    • DF-MG-02 CHANG-CHEN: Increased attack power/total rounds/projectile speed, decreased reload time.
    • MA-E-210 ETSUJIN: Increased attack power/total rounds/projectile speed, decreased reload time.
  • Adjusted certain attacks performed by the enemy units AAP07: BALTEUS, IA-13: SEA SPIDER and IB-01: CEL240.

Bug Fixes​

  • Fixed a bug that prevented certain weapons from dealing damage to the boss of the mission “Destroy the Weaponized Mining Ship”.
  • Fixed a bug that caused the boss of the mission “Prevent Corporate Salvage of New Tech” to be unable to detect the player.
  • Fixed a bug that caused certain enemies to not be displayed correctly during the mission “Survey the Uninhabited Floating City”.
  • Fixed a bug that caused certain enemies and background objects to be displayed incorrectly during the mission “Attack the Old Spaceport”.
  • Fixed a bug that caused vertical missiles and certain coral weapons to deal unintended amounts of damage.
  • Improved camera controls when spectating online arena battles.
  • Fixed a bug that caused the punch animation to not be displayed correctly on the opponent’s screen during online arena battles.
  • Other bug fixes.
  • [Xbox One / Xbox Series X|S / Steam] Fixed a bug that caused the game to enter offline mode and unable to save progress after the device recovers from sleep mode.
  • [Steam] Fixed the text displayed onscreen after selecting “Quit Game” from the System Menu on the title screen.
  • [Steam] Fixed a bug causing certain bosses to be rendered incorrectly.
Good move buffing the Rifle class so its more viable, they mentioned an online patch is coming, too, so I'm assuming some of the more oppressive weapons in PvP will get a nerf.

I heard Balteus has been considerable nerfed in its missile tracking, not sure about Spider or C4 Final Boss, though.
 
Re: the boss nerfs
1694414747582269.png


I've used this same loadout pre-patch (double Zim/Songbird/pile bunker) re-fighting Balteus and still had to sweat a little. Now he's a fucking joke. Seems way less aggressive and the missile tracking got nerfed into the ground. I'm a bit disappointed.

 
Last edited:

I_D

Member
From Soft has a lot of loyal fans, I get that, but not everyone is interested in a hardcore sweaty challenge. By a certain point it seems like some people simply enjoy being punished by video games, and take offense when others don't enjoy that.
(Tons of people have said the same thing you did, so I'm not talking to just you. Your comment just happens to be a good jumping-point.)



That's the funny part. What counts as "difficult" changes from person to person.
I don't find FROM games tough at all, to be honest. There's the occasional tough boss, but the games are quite simple and enjoyable, to me. They're like going on a fun stroll through a foreign land.


To me, games like God of War, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Nioh, etc. are all significantly more difficult than FROM games. I've never even finished any of the DMC games, for example, since I gave up.
To me, fighting games are infinitely more difficult than FROM games. Everything from Mortal Kombat to Killer Instinct to Fatal Fury are completely-impassable obstacles, for me. Smash Bros. is about as deep as I can get; and even that is hard as hell.
To me, platforming games are so difficult that I'd rather just not play. I don't think I've ever gotten even half way through a Mario game.
Don't even get me started on SHMUP and SHMUP-like games. Cuphead almost destroyed my marriage in coop mode, and that's barely even touching the surface of what SHMUPS have to offer.
Hell, Castle Crashers is one of the most difficult games I've ever played, and it's supposed to be a party-game. I can't even beat the tutorial in Divinity 2. I play Guitar Hero on easy-mode and barely survive. I have no fucking idea how to use almost all of the items in Minecraft. Etc., etc., etc.


Meanwhile, FROM games are downright relaxing.
I've said it for years, but FROM's games are pretty much all stealth games, with the occasional bursts of action. If you like stealth games, FROM's games aren't very tough. In fact, compared to their games from pre-DS eras, modern FROM games are actually quite easy.
But that's also true of all games. I grew up on the SNES, and basically all games on that console are FAR more difficult than almost anything released today.


So I think that FROM-fans aren't necessarily being fanboys. Like me, many of them probably don't think these games are all that tough.
Like me, it probably seems weird to them that other people can't handle these games. They probably think that the haters are 'playing wrong,' which is probably true.
But I also can't blame other players for finding these games tough, because I also find lots of 'easy' games to be quite tough.


But what I do not agree with is the idea that FROM should make the games easier.
If you want FROM to make the games easier, then I would suggest it seems reasonable that basically ALL games should include incredibly-easy modes, for players like myself.
And while we're at it, all games should include hard modes, for players such as myself. I'm looking at you, open-world-game developers, the kings of boringly-easy games...
 

MagnesD3

Member
Re: the boss nerfs
1694414747582269.png


I've used this same loadout pre-patch (double Zim/Songbird/pile bunker) re-fighting Balteus and still had to sweat a little. Now he's a fucking joke. Seems way less aggressive and the missile tracking got nerfed into the ground. I'm a bit disappointed.


Its sad because Balteius is my favorite boss, it felt so epic dodging his difficult to dodge missiles with Assault boost. I dont like From Software appealing to casuals, make the game you want to make, dont bend the god damn knee. Give an easy mode before nerfing bosses.
 
Last edited:

John Bilbo

Member
Re: the boss nerfs
1694414747582269.png


I've used this same loadout pre-patch (double Zim/Songbird/pile bunker) re-fighting Balteus and still had to sweat a little. Now he's a fucking joke. Seems way less aggressive and the missile tracking got nerfed into the ground. I'm a bit disappointed.


That's disappointing. The missile tracking was a crucial part of the battle puzzle.

So now we cannot play the original Balteus anymore. Feels a bit like they took a part of the game away after launch.

I'm glad I got to experience him as intended. It was a fun and exhilarating fight.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
That's disappointing. The missile tracking was a crucial part of the battle puzzle.

So now we cannot play the original Balteus anymore. Feels a bit like they took a part of the game away after launch.

I'm glad I got to experience him as intended. It was a fun and exhilarating fight.
Well I can. It’s why I buy physical. Revert stuff updates bring. Obviously means I would also get the bad with the good but it’s a tradeoff I would take on a game by game basis.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
I'd love it if PC supported physical releases.
Well on PC, there are certain ways I was told to make stuff physical. I’ve seen people recommend buying at GOG and storing the files on a hard drive or burning that specific version of the game on a CD

The main issue I guess is not everything is on GOG. Steam is the main Platform. Any other solution would be treading the line between piracy.
 
That's disappointing. The missile tracking was a crucial part of the battle puzzle.

So now we cannot play the original Balteus anymore. Feels a bit like they took a part of the game away after launch.

I'm glad I got to experience him as intended. It was a fun and exhilarating fight.
Buy the disc and install it without being online.

I suspect a ton of YouTubers will do this if it’s not fixed. A Radahan nerf was half-reversed at one point, remember.
 
Last edited:
Well on PC, there are certain ways I was told to make stuff physical. I’ve seen people recommend buying at GOG and storing the files on a hard drive or burning that specific version of the game on a CD

The main issue I guess is not everything is on GOG. Steam is the main Platform. Any other solution would be treading the line between piracy.
Didn’t see this.

Master race in shambles for once :) console boyz ftw.
 

mortal

Banned
Damn looks like all that whining about Balteus finally made its way back to FromSoftware.

I can't believe people had a hard time with the C-Spider to justify a nerfing. I got it on my second try with a pile bunker, and that's coming from someone who got thrashed by Balteus.
At least some of the kinetic weapon buffs have been great.
 
Damn looks like all that whining about Balteus finally made its way back to FromSoftware.

I can't believe people had a hard time with the C-Spider to justify a nerfing. I got it on my second try with a pile bunker, and that's coming from someone who got thrashed by Balteus.
At least some of the kinetic weapon buffs have been great.
Yeah it’s super lame :( we live in a society where whining is incentivised because nobody will tell people to stfu.
 
Last edited:

MagnesD3

Member
Yeah it’s super lame :( we live in a society where whining is incentivised because nobody will tell people to stfu.
I really hope they just give an easy mode in thier games in the future to shut up the people who dont have any drive to better themselves so the main game isnt affected, the only time I wanna see a change in bosses are when bugs are clearly going on, the missile shit was clearly not a bug it was intended to teach the player how to assault boost. Appealing to the Lowest common denominator is trash.
 
Last edited:

Naked Lunch

Member
The sad thing is - Armored Core's mission structure makes for replaying bosses quick and easy. Like I posted previously, since launch I have basically just been fighting Balteus over and over with different builds. Thats the whole fun of the series in general. Now the original version of that boss is gone. I had no clue a boss nerf was incoming.

Unless im misremembering, in the souls games you have to replay the entire game to replay bosses, or play them again in co-op only (which is not the same). Sekiro had a boss replay feature though which was nice - but you were stuck with a certain build and stats. Armored Core, you can fight any boss with any build at any time.

From Software done fucked up with these boss nerfs. Sucks.
 
Last edited:

MagnesD3

Member
The sad thing is - Armored Core's mission structure makes for replaying bosses quick and easy. Like I posted previously, since launch I have basically just been fighting Balteus over and over with different builds. Thats the whole fun of the series in general. Now the original version of that boss is gone. I had no clue a boss nerf was incoming.

Unless im misremembering, in the souls games you have to replay the entire game to replay bosses, or play them again in co-op only (which is not the same). Sekiro had a boss replay feature though which was nice - but you were stuck with a certain build and stats. Armored Core, you can fight any boss with any build at any time.

From Software done fucked up with these boss nerfs. Sucks.
Paints a Grim outlook for the future honestly.
 

mortal

Banned
I really hope they just give an easy mode in thier games in the future to shut up the people who dont have any drive to better themselves so the main game isnt affected, the only time I wanna see a change in bosses are when bugs are clearly going on, the missile shit was clearly not a bug it was intended to teach the player how to assault boost. Appealing to the Lowest common denominator is trash.
That's the thing though, I think adding a conventional easy mode where the AI and mission conditions are changed would be a misstep, as It would impact the fundamental design of these games for the worse.
The AC assembly mechanic itself is arguably the "easy mode" people are looking for, baked right into the game itself.

What helped make the entire game click for me is understanding the purpose of parts, and which parts are the best for which jobs.
When that aspect clicks you begin to respect movement, energy management, the benefit of certain loadouts over others, and everything really.
I love testing out new part combinations and seeing the variety of builds shared by other players.

It also makes these games highly replayable, and for some players, even better the second time around in a NG+ playthrough.

I don't think one needs to pour hundreds of hours or multiple playthroughs to enjoy it either. Just understand that the mission is a lock and your chosen AC build is the key.
Once you're in that state, the game really does reveal itself to you, and the idea that it's too hard goes away and it's become fun.
By then you're seeking out more challenges because you understand the rules. That's my take, at least.

Yeah it’s super lame :( we live in a society where whining is incentivised because nobody will tell people to stfu.
I know what you mean. Although in defense of whining, it plays part in the discourse and proves a useful tactic for consumers.
Though I agree it's all too prevelant in todays society, I do also see the vaule of whining/complaining as a means to an end.
I'm often more critical of the developer acquiescing than I am of the players.
 
Last edited:

-Zelda-

Banned
So is this finally a Fromsoft game that I can actually play? I keep seeing people online say that this game is really easy, until all of a sudden it really isnt. something about a difficulty spike that comes out of nowhere and will have you pulling your hair out and breaking everything in your home.
 

Naked Lunch

Member
I booted up nerfed Balteus and its now a complete joke.
You wont even have to use a single repair kit now.

GG From Software giving into to the crybabies who probably never even played a single game in the series before this.
Could be an inflection point of the studio for the future.
 
I’m just now really getting into the game.

I’ve been going through what some of us call horse-pucky.

This game, fulfills my every mech fantasy. Arena mode is perfect for this.

Every enemy type is represented. Flying dude, ground guy, tank bro, quick man, where’d he go cocksucker, they’re all here!

I am the turtle.
 

SCB3

Member
Thought I'd take a break from Starfield (and the Pokemon DLC is done for mw now) and finally get back into AC, I patched the game on Steam and reading the notes, has Bateaus and Sea Spider really been nerfed? That's kinda a shame I didn't think they were that bad, hard but perseverance and the right build forces you to get good at the combat, anyway the mission I'd left it was the aforementioned Sea Spider and destroyed it in 2 attempts, I'm gonna watch a video of what this was like before the patch, I need to see why people were struggling.

Also, my Mech is wrecking Arena battles in like than 30 seconds, Double Railguns on the Shoulders, a Missile Launcher and Gatling gun on a Biped Mech for the win
 

MagnesD3

Member
Thought I'd take a break from Starfield (and the Pokemon DLC is done for mw now) and finally get back into AC, I patched the game on Steam and reading the notes, has Bateaus and Sea Spider really been nerfed? That's kinda a shame I didn't think they were that bad, hard but perseverance and the right build forces you to get good at the combat, anyway the mission I'd left it was the aforementioned Sea Spider and destroyed it in 2 attempts, I'm gonna watch a video of what this was like before the patch, I need to see why people were struggling.

Also, my Mech is wrecking Arena battles in like than 30 seconds, Double Railguns on the Shoulders, a Missile Launcher and Gatling gun on a Biped Mech for the win
I know Balteus has for sure, his missile tracking is really bad now, i think hes less aggressive too
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
So I shelf the game for starfield, and now I find out its been nerfed? That's well annoying I want the real challenge.
 

MagnesD3

Member
Balteus is the most memorable fight in the game for me. Shouldn't have been nerfed.
Same, still my favorite fight even after finishing NG++

Thats too bad, I can understand the missile tracking as that could be too much, but aggression wise he was fine
Well the missile tracking was used to teach the player that assault boost is better at dodging certain things, now you dont need to learn this lesson.
 
Last edited:

SCB3

Member
Same, still my favorite fight even after finishing NG++


Well the missile tracking was used to teach the player that assault boost is better at dodging certain things, now you dont need to learn this lesson.
Oh is it that bad now? Yea you kinda needed that lesson

I will say one thing that I wish was nerfed a bit, those lasers at the beginning of some missions before you get to an area, some of those just feel unfair
 

MagnesD3

Member
Oh is it that bad now? Yea you kinda needed that lesson

I will say one thing that I wish was nerfed a bit, those lasers at the beginning of some missions before you get to an area, some of those just feel unfair
Those lasers arentbbad once you know the timing, just wait for a certain point in the sound cue and quickboost
 
Has the chapter 4 boss been nerfed too? I did it first time on NG+ last night. It took me hours when I did it on NG.
 
Last edited:

SCB3

Member
Those lasers arentbbad once you know the timing, just wait for a certain point in the sound cue and quickboost
Overall they're not bad, but I seem to always get hit by splash damage or something even when I doge perfectly, its a minor issue tbh just annoying and I am really nitpicking here
 

Sleepwalker

Member
I beat balteus in 2 or 3 tries and never gave him a second thought. The Spider actually made me sweat for like 10+ attempts lol.

The late game baltheus fight was way harder than the first one IMO.

Either way the nerfs suck, Im not good at fromsoft games and I beat this game, anyone could do it in the OG difficulty, just had to keep going and trying new builds/strats.


Im done with the game now so this doesnt affect me but still kinda sucks.
 
Last edited:

SCB3

Member
I beat balteus in 2 or 3 tries and never gave him a second thought. The Spider actually made me sweat for like 10+ attempts lol.

The late game baltheus fight was way harder than the first one IMO.

Either way the nerfs suck, Im not good at fromsoft games and I beat this game, anyone could do it in the OG difficulty, just had to keep going and trying new builds/strats.


Im done with the game now so this doesnt affect me but still kinda sucks.
I agree, like I get why something being nerfed for just being unfair can be warranted (keeping with FromSoft, Rahdan at launch for example) but everything here in AC felt somewhat fair and learnable
 

MagnesD3

Member
I beat balteus in 2 or 3 tries and never gave him a second thought. The Spider actually made me sweat for like 10+ attempts lol.

The late game baltheus fight was way harder than the first one IMO.

Either way the nerfs suck, Im not good at fromsoft games and I beat this game, anyone could do it in the OG difficulty, just had to keep going and trying new builds/strats.


Im done with the game now so this doesnt affect me but still kinda sucks.
Oh Snail haha, yeah he was one tough SOB. I AM ARQUEBUS. That music that played before you enter the door drove me mad..
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom