Support NeoGAF

[ZeroX03]

People can stop bitching about Felicity copying Oracle now... The Calculator's daughter is a wheelchair bound genius

Spoiler

who is a essentially a copy of Oracle

.

Roy was great. Nyssa was great. Tatsu got all of thirty seconds which she wasn't killed in. Shado was funny. They really needed to cut one of the side plots to give the others time to breathe. All the reunions seemed cut a bit short.


Oh and...

#2.13 "Sins of the Father" Promo (hey, that title refers to two characters!)

 

[SargerusBR]

I can't believe I am saying this but DAMN I miss Roy.

he is just such a fun presence on screen.

Agreed

 

[ZeroX03]

Arrow Boss Shares the Story Behind Big Reveal, Previews the Reactions to Come: 'Felicity Is Really Conflicted'

tldr; they wanted a different relationship than Thea & Malcolm which is why Darhk isn't her father and The Calculator is probably going to be popping in for potentially seasons to come.

 

[johnnydrama]

Truly saddened at the state of the show right now. It used to be my favorite show, and now I watch it just to keep up with the DC TV universe. There are too many annoying subplots that I just don't care for anymore. The show was far more fun when it was focused on Oliver. Really can't bring myself to give half a shit about Thea's bloodlust bullshit, or Nyssa's hissy fits, or Diggle's brother who's been locked up in a cell for months without even a goddamn toilet.

I hope the next couple of episodes are good else I might just have to drop it.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

This season started off promising that they were going to fix the mistakes of season 3, but lately I just haven't really cared. I am just watching out of habit.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Yeah, we kinda called that last summer didn't we? Or was it when the character was announced? Guess they didn't want to totally telegraph it by giving Felicity the Proxy name. Oh and Roy, Roy Roy, I knew that was you the moment you parkour'd your way out of the scene.

 

[valeo]

This season started off promising that they were going to fix the mistakes of season 3, but lately I just haven't really cared. I am just watching out of habit.

Yeah..I've dropped it now. Too many other shows.

 

[ZeroX03]

Arrow is pretty middle of the road for me. It's not groundbreaking or anything, but it's fine for a genre show in season four. No intention of dropping it.

Also helps that Arrow has the best villain this year.

 

[fallengorn]

This season started off promising that they were going to fix the mistakes of season 3, but lately I just haven't really cared. I am just watching out of habit.

Feel the same. It's still better than S3, but it's just not jiving for me.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Arrow is pretty middle of the road for me. It's not groundbreaking or anything, but it's fine for a genre show in season four. No intention of dropping it.

Also helps that Arrow has the best villain this year.

And they haven't used him in what feels like ages either.

 

[Tabby]

I want to like this show and I keep watching hoping it turns good again but man, what happened?

This season started off promising that they were going to fix the mistakes of season 3, but lately I just haven't really cared. I am just watching out of habit.

Pretty much.

 

[Luigi87]

So does Felicity's dad work for CADMUS, or were the mercenaries from them?

 

[Tabby]

Why is Laurel even still in the show? It's obvious at this point they don't know what to do with her and they don't seem to care.

 

[ZeroX03]

And they haven't used him in what feels like ages either.

He appeared only two episodes ago, and was in Legends last week. He's by far the most prominent villain that wasn't a series regular that the Arrowverse has seen yet, being in eleven episodes across three shows.

So does Felicity's dad work for CADMUS, or were the mercenaries from them?

He hired them on the dark web.

 

[Magwik]

The season started off strong but it's like they learned nothing from last season. They are spreading themselves too thin again with so many plot lines. Ollie, Felicity, Diggle, Thea, and Flashback Ollie. Occasionally Merlyn too. To compensate for the plethora of side plots, they attempt to intertwine everything instead of giving others independent arcs and it only brings each one down a notch. Season 1 and 2 were incredibly focused from the start, and handled the multiple plots way better.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

He appeared only two episodes ago, and was in Legends last week. He's by far the most prominent villain that wasn't a series regular that the Arrowverse has seen yet, being in eleven episodes across three shows.



He hired them on the dark web.

God, it feels like ages ago.

 

[ZeroX03]

The season started off strong but it's like they learned nothing from last season. They are spreading themselves too thin again with so many plot lines. Ollie, Felicity, Diggle, Thea, and Flashback Ollie. Occasionally Merlyn too. To compensate for the plethora of side plots, they attempt to intertwine everything instead of giving others independent arcs and it only brings each one down a notch. Season 1 and 2 were incredibly focused from the start, and handled the multiple plots way better.

Why is Laurel even still in the show? It's obvious at this point they don't know what to do with her and they don't seem to care.

Laurel is the only one nice enough to give the show breathing room.

But they totally should've culled one of the subplots this episode. Flashbacks are seemingly mandatory, so Nyssa probably shouldn't have been in.

God, it feels like ages ago.

Again: easily the most present villain next to Slade and Reverse Flash. And Slade only because of flashbacks.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Return of the King. I knew it was him when he did a

Spoiler

useless flip

lol

 

[The Outsider]

Fun episode. The Felicity and Calculator stuff was kinda dumb, but I think I'm used to to that now. Roy is awesome, he needs to come back next season. Thought Katana was a goner for sure. Pleasantly surprised.

 

[Luigi87]

To be fair we don't know if Katana is actually still alive.

Spoiler

=D

 

[The Outsider]

To be fair we don't know if Katana is actually still alive.

Spoiler

=D

True, but I expected them to kill her outright as soon as she showed up.

 

[Penguin]

I guess i just have simple expectations

I'm digging season 4... though will say this week's ep felt weird with the 3 different plots

Seems more like a set-up ep than anything

 

[morningbus]

I like that they set up a few smaller stories that'll span more than one episode.

 

[serenewarfare]

Why is Laurel even still in the show? It's obvious at this point they don't know what to do with her and they don't seem to care.

It's okay for her to just be a voice of reason right now. We already have a hundred plates spinning, no need to add one just for the sake of it. Laurel had a lot to do for a very long timespan in the show. She'll do fine with a bit of time in the background.

 

[foxtrot3d]

The season started off strong but it's like they learned nothing from last season. They are spreading themselves too thin again with so many plot lines. Ollie, Felicity, Diggle, Thea, and Flashback Ollie. Occasionally Merlyn too. To compensate for the plethora of side plots, they attempt to intertwine everything instead of giving others independent arcs and it only brings each one down a notch. Season 1 and 2 were incredibly focused from the start, and handled the multiple plots way better.

I agree though I thought this episode wasn't that bad, it was alright. However, I agree that one of the things I dislike about Arrow is the seeming scattercannon of plots going on. I crave for the simple times when Team Arrow consisted of the mighty trio and Oliver tended to go on missions alone. Now, everybody is a goddamn super hero which oddly enough downgrades the scope of the show. We don't have outside plots like Laurel as DA or Oliver family drama because everyone is a hero and thus don't have to be shown having outside lives besides the current week's baddie.

I don't think the show has too many side plots just that none of them are treated with respect/time. We are treated to a dozen other side plots each season which never get the time they deserve. Felicity is CEO whenever she remembers she's actually in charge of a billion dollar company, Oliver every now and then remembers he's running for Mayor, Diggle has a family and a resurrected brother, Thea is crazy, Laurel sits around and occasionally chastises her dad. I'm just constantly asking while watching, what do these people do during the day?

Why can't we have West Wing lite drama in the day with Oliver's campaign and Arrow at night? Why not some company drama with Felicity as opposed to her just hacking everything every week? How about some Law and Order lite drama for Laurel as opposed to her just being in the background? You get the point, the cast feels bigger than ever and yet the show somehow feels smaller and less original. Oh and for the love of GOD, get rid of the GOD DAMN FLASHBACKS! They served a purpose early on as a theme that tied with each episode as we looked at who Oliver was and who he has learned to become, now they are just completely separate stories that do not tie thematically in any way. Get rid of them.

 

[ryan299]

Is this lotus flower thing in the comics? It felt to me like they invented it to get themselves out of the Thea jam.

Cutting Roy from the show was a huge mistake. The mayoral campaign is pointless. Dhark should be in every episode, and the league of assassin's should've been buried last season. I agree with the posts above that they have too many plot lines going.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I agree though I thought this episode wasn't that bad, it was alright. However, I agree that one of the things I dislike about Arrow is the seeming scattercannon of plots going on. I crave for the simple times when Team Arrow consisted of the mighty trio and Oliver tended to go on missions alone. Now, everybody is a goddamn super hero which oddly enough downgrades the scope of the show. We don't have outside plots like Laurel as DA or Oliver family drama because everyone is a hero and thus don't have to be shown having outside lives besides the current week's baddie.

I don't think the show has too many side plots just that none of them are treated with respect/time. We are treated to a dozen other side plots each season which never get the time they deserve. Felicity is CEO whenever she remembers she's actually in charge of a billion dollar company, Oliver every now and then remembers he's running for Mayor, Diggle has a family and a resurrected brother, Thea is crazy, Laurel sits around and occasionally chastises her dad. I'm just constantly asking while watching, what do these people do during the day?

Why can't we have West Wing lite drama in the day with Oliver's campaign and Arrow at night? Why not some company drama with Felicity as opposed to her just hacking everything every week? How about some Law and Order lite drama for Laurel as opposed to her just being in the background? You get the point, the cast feels bigger than ever and yet the show somehow feels smaller and less original. Oh and for the love of GOD, get rid of the GOD DAMN FLASHBACKS! They served a purpose early on as a theme that tied with each episode as we looked at who Oliver wasn't and who he learned to become, now they are just completely separate stories that do not tie thematically in any way.

We never really had any of that stuff to begin with .
So it make no sense now that there are super heroes to have much of it .
If you look at early on in the series it almost the same way .
Also they add to the Oliver campaign this ep , i mean it hard to have drama when no one was running against him .

Again: easily the most present villain next to Slade and Reverse Flash. And Slade only because of flashbacks.

Yep and not only that but unlike salde and reverse flash he was a villain from the started .
And has been more active that both of them thru out the season as a villain .

 

[foxtrot3d]

We never really had any of that stuff to begin with .
So it make no sense now that there are super heroes to have it .

We did in the first two seasons, characters had meaningful subplots and day lives. Now, they do not and we only get occasional spats of non-Arrow stuff that is never focused on.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

We did in the first two seasons, characters had meaningful subplots and day lives. Now, they do not and we only get occasional spats of non-Arrow stuff that is never focused on.

I add more to my earlier post .
But other than Laurel they never really show much of it or it did not really matter .
Dig has always been the body guard \ black driver .
Thea was a school girl \ club owner and now she help out with the campaign .
Oliver hardly did anything before that matter .
Felicity went from working in a small office to running the company but they never really paid much attention to that to begin with .

 

[foxtrot3d]

I add more to my earlier post .
But other than Laurel they never really show much of it or it did not really matter .
Dig has always been the body guard \ black driver .
Thea was a school girl \ club owner and now she help out with the campaign .
Oliver hardly did anything before than matter also .
Felicity went from working in a small office to running the company but they never really paid much attention to that to begin with .

Thea and Olvier had family drama for the first two seasons outside of Arrow stuff.
Felicity had the Queen company mystery she was solving on her own the first season.
Diggle has always been Black Driver, with occasional ARGUS stuff. That hasn't changed.
Laurel we've talked about.

I'll agree the show never did too much of this stuff but it was more than what we have now and I'd like to see even more than what we had in the past in the future.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Thea and Olvier had family drama for the first two seasons outside of Arrow stuff.
Felicity had the Queen company mystery she was solving on her own the first season.
Diggle has always been Black Driver, with occasional ARGUS stuff. That hasn't changed.
Laurel we've talked about.

I'll agree the show never did too much of this stuff but it was more than what we have now and I'd like to see even more than what we had in the past in the future.

To tell the truth the Thea and Olvier family drama i don't miss .
The same when it comes to drama of Oliver not telling people he is arrow (dislike that stuff)
Problem is it hard to see that stuff when almost everyone has a major plot point going and they adding more .

 

[Lingitiz]

That episode felt like it was packed with a ton of stuff. Not all of it good I guess but a fun episode nonetheless.

 

[foxtrot3d]

To tell the truth the Thea and Olvier family drama i don't miss .
The same when it comes to drama of Oliver not telling people he is arrow (dislike that stuff)
Problem is it hard to see that stuff when almost everyone has a major plot point going and they adding more .

I never had an intense hated for family drama, just when it was stupid family drama/writing. What I liked is that it gave Oliver something else to do besides being Arrow 24/7, now he is that and it isn't all that interesting. Unless he's fighting HIVE which threatens his friends there are no stakes, he doesn't have to hide his identity from his loved ones and he doesn't have to deal with anything at the moment besides being Arrow. Dahrk's wife being a political opponent can hopefully give him something else to do.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

There was a royflip? I must have missed it. Can someone gif it?

Roy's actually been pretty good tonight. Feel Colton's acting has improved.

He was definitely more emotive.

 

[Emwitus]

I agree though I thought this episode wasn't that bad, it was alright. However, I agree that one of the things I dislike about Arrow is the seeming scattercannon of plots going on. I crave for the simple times when Team Arrow consisted of the mighty trio and Oliver tended to go on missions alone. Now, everybody is a goddamn super hero which oddly enough downgrades the scope of the show. We don't have outside plots like Laurel as DA or Oliver family drama because everyone is a hero and thus don't have to be shown having outside lives besides the current week's baddie.

I don't think the show has too many side plots just that none of them are treated with respect/time. We are treated to a dozen other side plots each season which never get the time they deserve. Felicity is CEO whenever she remembers she's actually in charge of a billion dollar company, Oliver every now and then remembers he's running for Mayor, Diggle has a family and a resurrected brother, Thea is crazy, Laurel sits around and occasionally chastises her dad. I'm just constantly asking while watching, what do these people do during the day?

Why can't we have West Wing lite drama in the day with Oliver's campaign and Arrow at night? Why not some company drama with Felicity as opposed to her just hacking everything every week? How about some Law and Order lite drama for Laurel as opposed to her just being in the background? You get the point, the cast feels bigger than ever and yet the show somehow feels smaller and less original. Oh and for the love of GOD, get rid of the GOD DAMN FLASHBACKS! They served a purpose early on as a theme that tied with each episode as we looked at who Oliver was and who he has learned to become, now they are just completely separate stories that do not tie thematically in any way. Get rid of them.

This guy gets it. Surprisingly, the "hero" part of flash is 10 percent why I find it fun and the better show currently.

Also,arrow still worked after the no kill cause Ollie was brutal and calculated now he's a soft self blaming bum.

Ps: whats up with the synchronized fight scenes. Eg. Arrow team jumps off a roof together, run through a door and make an entrance together, shoot an arrow together, .......etc etc agggghhh. Can we get a good director please. Maybe the guy who directed the daredevilesque fight scenes

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Thea's Death Clock has started ticking... which means its Diggle in the grave.

 

[strafer]

oh god, Felicity fumbling with the mic....adorable...

 

[Jonogunn]

Makes no sense for Oliver forgiving and even thanking Malcolm after all the shit he has done and caused

 

[Klyka]

I still have to say, the actual "action/hero" parts of Arrow still grab me more than Flash

Like,I know the fight scenes aren't even amazingly choreographed or anything but they just work for me. They look cool.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Makes no sense for Oliver forgiving and even thanking Malcolm after all the shit he has done and caused

Oliver saying a thank you don't really mean he forgive him that much just that he sees you have to respect people choices .
Also this Oliver we talking about half shit in the series happen because of his stupid choices.
So at least he can related Malcolm LMAO.

 

[strafer]

Everytime I kill someone in Counter-Strike.

 

[Bluth54]

I was surprised with how many people who used to be on the show that they brought back in this last episode, it was pretty enjoyable to see everyone returning.

I do like this season better then season 3 but it's not a whole lot better.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Really good stunt work in this episode. For being a Villain of the Week episode, I thought it was one of the better episodes this season. Quips were fun, and it was nice to have Roy back. And even though Felicity's plot was predictable, I'm really glad they gave her a plot that involved running the company and gaining confidence in her position.

Random Thoughts

Thea & Roy moments. 💔😢

"Just because you're wearing red, that doesn't make you The Flash." 😂

I really hope they get crazy with The Calculator being Felicity's dad.

Queen Nyssa pulling strings. Hope they keep her around for a couple episodes.

They have to pull back on Oliver finding peace in the flashbacks. I know they like to tie them thematically to the present day storyline, but "Island Oliver" becomes Season 1 Psycho murderer Oliver.

I think sometimes this show could stand to think a little smaller. Like giving Felicity a business rival that isn't connected to a villain, or giving Oliver some political scandal, and having him wrestle with the idea of using his Green Arrow resources to fix it. That kinda stuff.

 

[Chariot]

Haha, the chase scene in the first half reminds me of A Touch of Cloth.

 

[ZeroX03]

#2.13 "Sins of the Father" Extended Promo

Do we think Merlyn will actually die? In episode 13 and not before the second big break? It's hard to tell by the shooting schedule because he's always all over the place as he shoots much less, but he is doing an episode of Reign. Probably not. Might be nice if it happened though.

That's so cute!

 

[Sölf]

I watched 12:30 minutes. And holy shit, so much bullshit already happend by then. And the rest was just as good. Arrow bullshit is best bullshit. God, this show... xD

 

[ZeroX03]

Is anyone else really sad that Roy didn't say "maybe I'll swing by Central City"? I'd fucking love for him to do a few episodes of The Flash. His energy isn't as dark as say Oliver or Diggle, he'd probably fit in quite nicely over there even if his skills aren't that useful.

 

[Dereck]

"Don't worry guys! I've tweaked the megahertz and upped the bus ram so I can stealth hack into his usb subnet matrix. He'll never see it coming!"

 

[Magwik]

Nah Malcom is more than likely going to be a S5 antagonist

 

[TheOddOne]

- TVLine: Arrow Boss Shares the Story Behind Big Reveal, Previews the Reactions to Come: 'Felicity Is Really Conflicted'.

TVLINE | Before we get into who Felicity’s father is, I wanted to walk about who he isn’t. Why did you so freely dismiss the Damien Darhk theory at the beginning of the season? And why did you nix him as the eventual reveal?

You know, we did talk about it, and being perfectly honest, we knew Andy Diggle was going to be working with H.I.V.E. and with Damien, so we felt that if we had every relative of our core teamArrow Season 4 Spoilers somehow involved with H.I.V.E. it would feel very “Tiny Town,” very coincidental. It was purely a choice based on that. It kind of narrowed the scope of the world too much, and we felt it was better to find an organic way to bring in Felicity’s father. The other piece is that if it was Damien or tied to H.I.V.E., it would make it harder to bring him back, say, in Season 5.