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As Consoles Continue to Catch Up, PC Gaming Could be Threaten by Another, ARM. Moore's Law / x86 is Dead.

Victor Omega

Victor Omega

Member

This is the Fugaku supercomputer, the fastest supercomputer today.
it uses an A64FX 48C 2.2GHz Processor, ARM.
[Misconception: ARM is not powerful, ARM were designed solely for Mobile]

​
When most of us think of ARM gaming we think of: Mobile; Free To Play; MIcro-transaction; Loot box; Korean MMO; Multi-million Dollar ad titles.

How does ARM define itself toward gaming?
For decades, Arm has been a leading contributor to the mobile gaming industry. As the gaming industry experiences a shift toward being ‘mobile-first,’ mobile games now earn far more revenue than PC and console-based games. This phenomenal growth is driving more premium PC and console gaming titles to mobile with users expecting a similar experience with a consistently high frame rate and no lag.

Arm technology plays a key role in transforming console and PC gaming into an exceptional mobile experience. We provide the technology, tools and software for mobile devices to run high-quality AAA games dependent on powerful graphics, compute (both single thread, sustained, and low power), machine learning (ML), and connectivity.
​

Whereas console and PC gaming has had the keys to gaming for decades, ARM seems to be entering into the industry in a backdoor approach, and with consoles crafting their tech to reach PC quality experiences, PC itself seems to become the third wheel. With the loss of big developers like Besthdesa that push PC techs like OpenGL and Vulkan, PC MMOs adopting or fully migrating to Mobile, PC, once a dominant platform, now only seems like a "companion" to Console and Mobile.

Are the future of VR and exclusive projects like Star Citizen the only experiences left to need PC gaming? Or is it best for PC gaming to fully adopt ARM for the future?



​
 
diffusionx

diffusionx

Gold Member
Consoles do not "continue to catch up", the newest GPUs are 2x as fast as PS5 (and more than 2x as fast than XSX) and the CPUs are better too, and the gap will only grow.

If ARM eventually overtakes x86, in the end we get better chips, what is the problem? PC games will just get coded for better chips.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Well.

Mac are migrating to ARM.
Windows 10 now runs on ARM.
There is the dream do unify mobile and PC as a single development platform for better or worst.

It is a trend... whatever it will kill x86 we are too many years from know.

Consoles will probably go ARM.
 
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S

Stray Parts

Member
What a load of utter rubbish.

PC gaming isn't threatened by Arm, that's complete nonsense, PC's are not just x86 its being an open platform.

Windows in the past has supported multiple computer architectures including PPC, Dec Alpha, Itanium and it supports Arm too.

PC gaming remains popular because its an open platform whereas console/mobile are not. It does not matter if PC's in the future are Arm based, x86 will be the default option for gaming PC's for the foreseeable future, Arm system on chips are a great mobile/laptop solution but it will take another 10 years or so to get the ball fully rolling for PC games to ship with Arm Windows builds.

Games are not just one piece of software, they have a lot of dependencies, all these software tools and packages must also be ported to Arm Windows before the game can even run, that will take a very long time.

Sony/MS consoles will only go Arm when there is an a good off the shelf solution they can use to replace the off the shelf x86 solutions they use, the days of exotic hardware development for consoles are over.
 
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J

Jagz

Member
If anything, this will only expand Windows based PC gaming to more devices, as Windows 10 already runs on ARM chips. With Windows adding native support for Android, I think in the not too distant future, smartphones and PCs will unify; your portable smart device will be an Android phone on the go, and a Windows desktop, while docked.
 
JLB

JLB

Banned
Apple Silicon / M1 / ARM is proven to be one of those technological jumps that happen every 10 years or so and adjust Moore's Law. The results are simply outstanding. Even on Rosetta's (non native apps) on a low level entry model (Air).
Once this technology gets integrated with a powerful GPU, be prepared to see a killer combination. One that potentially could force Microsoft and Sony to come up with a mid gen upgrade sooner rather than later.
 
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Trogdor1123

Trogdor1123

Member
What does that mean for compatibility with the current gen (and previous gens i suppose) stuff? Are we looking at a whole new refresh where nothing carries over.... Again?
 
diffusionx

diffusionx

Gold Member
LazyParrot said:
If ARM ends up being significantly better than x86, then both PCs and consoles will just switch. I don't see how that poses a problem for PC gaming, much less a "threat".
Click to expand...

I think the verdict is in, and yea, it is. Apple's M1 chip is a total disruption of the industry You get better performance than Intel with significantly better battery life. Even with their emulation layer, performance is still extremely good (something like 80% of native, which you can start to offset by just having a faster chip). And this is just the first one.

Obviously Apple has advantages that other places do not, as they are in full control of the chip design, the computer design, the OS, the tools, etc., but yea, this is looking like the way forward.
 
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Cherrypepsi

Cherrypepsi

Member
I can see Nvidia developing crazy APU's with ARM/Geforce in the future

we might see a complete swing in the laptop market in the upcoming years

#PrayForIntel :messenger_winking_tongue:
 
rodrigolfp

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
"With the loss of big developers like Besthdesa that push PC techs like OpenGL and Vulkan, PC MMOs adopting or fully migrating to Mobile, PC, once a dominant platform, now only seems like a "companion" to Console and Mobile. "

Loss of Bethesda??? WTF??? Bethesda is still working on PC games!!!

PC MMOs going to mobile??? Dat WoW, FFXIV, SWTOR, TESO, LotRO, DCUO, GW2, Neverwinter, Champions O, etc mobile versions. oh wait...

What was smoked???
 
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ReyBrujo

ReyBrujo

Member
The industry has been waiting to see what has Intel in hands for years now. ARM chips got one huge advantage, lower power consumption, and unless Intel does something to change that ARM will become the de facto standard for everyone and everything.
 
Azurro

Azurro

Banned
For sure, ARM will eventually dominate and will be here sooner than we expect, AMD already has an ARM chip for example and the efficiency and potential performance in an ARM chip isn't a secret. Windows will simply move to ARM though and a lot of effort will be spent on a rosetta stone like emulation layer in the new chips and that will be it..
 
The_Mike

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Oh look everybody, its the time of the year where we declare that pc gaming is dying.

Just like all the previous years and decades.

PC gamers since the first time someone said it over two decades ago:

09zHHEb.gif


And why are they already talking next gen? How can they know that it will catch up on pc, because ps5 and SX sure as hell isn't close.
 
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McHuj

McHuj

Member
Only way ARM takes over the industry if MS goes all out windows ARM support. It doesn't matter how good the Apple chip is if it's confined to the MACs.
 
McHuj

McHuj

Member
Entroyp said:
I firmly believe PS6 and Xbox whatever will be ARM chips. That or Xbox will actually be the size of a refrigerator and PS5 won’t fit in small rooms.
Click to expand...

The CPU isn't the driver for the size of the console/cooling solution. It's always the GPU.

Whether it's x86 or ARM, the next gen console SOCs and power budgets will still be dominated by GPU requirements.
 
wipeout364

wipeout364

Member
While I agree that Arm tech has shown amazing growth, the argument you are giving depends on Intel just sitting on its ass and letting market share slip through its fingers.

Maybe that will happen but my impression of intel is that they are one of the most cutthroat companies out there,they also have pretty deep pockets so I myself would not be making any predictions that I would put money on with regards to where we will be.
 
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A.Romero

A.Romero

Member
Why would the most versatile platform die? If anything, any change benefits PC gaming as it is the most agile platform there is. Personally I don't see that changing.

The last 32 bit processor was released almost 20 years ago but Windows 10 still supported 32 bit at launch. You can still run 32 bit applications and Windows has supported ARM for a long time.

PC is the most resilient and sustainable platform and I don't see why that would change at any point in the future.
 
diffusionx

diffusionx

Gold Member
wipeout364 said:
While I agree that Arm tech has shown amazing growth, the argument you are giving depends on Intel just sitting on its ass and letting market share slip through its fingers.

Maybe that will happen but my impression of intel is that they are one of the most cutthroat companies out there,they also have pretty deep pockets so I myself would not be making any predictions that I would put money on with regards to where we will be.
Click to expand...

Intel has not been able to compete on anything more than sheer momentum for about a decade now. Honestly they're starting to look like a walking corpse.

yurinka said:
PSVita was ARM
Click to expand...

So was Game Boy Advance
 
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Sgt. Pinback

Sgt. Pinback

(L3) + (R3) | Spartan rage activated
Wow. ANOTHER assassin coming to kill PC gaming. So far this week, we've had the PS5's secret sauce in their device that is powered by a fragment of a supernova star, and now ARM tech is going to turn the entire PC enthusiast market into a race of mobile-first Borg.

Seriously. You guys need to let it go. You need to get over it. PC gaming isn't dying, it isn't vanishing, consoles aren't going to kill it, and ARM tech isn't going to kill it. Every week someone claims that the PC is on it's last legs with great conviction, and every time it just looks completely foolish.
 
.Pennywise

.Pennywise

Banned
We've been told that PC gaming is dying since, I don't know, forever? And yet it still thrives.

Sigh. Public renews I think.
 
ChuckeRearmed

ChuckeRearmed

Member
PC is a just a machine. Even with ARM it will stay PC - whether laptop or standalone. Mobile and streaming is the future anyway.
 
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JimboJones

JimboJones

Member
iHaunter said:
PC gaming is mostly dead, all best exclusives are console only.
Click to expand...
Pretty strange all high profile 3rd party games get announced on PC, almost like there is a viable market there. Even Dragon Quest (a historically console only game) got released on PC waaaay before Xbox.
 
X

Xallisto

Neo Member
Not so sure about this ARM is a reduced instruction set computing architecture, x86/64 are complex instruction set computing architectures, i cant see them moving over to RISC anytime soon, seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.
 
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Guilty_AI

Guilty_AI

Member
Xallisto said:
Not so sure about this ARM is a reduced instruction set computing architecture, x86/64 are complex instruction set computing architectures, i cant see them moving over to RISC anytime soon, seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.
Click to expand...
Biggest advantage of ARM is that it has more efficient power consumption, making it great for mobile devices and maybe even servers.

All in all, RISC x CISC is a pretty old fight and honestly articles like tend to be just a whole lot of hot air really. Don't think ARM will take over that easily either, at most i see both of them coexisting as they've been doing so far.
 
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R

reptilex

Banned
Xallisto said:
Not so sure about this ARM is a reduced instruction set computing architecture, x86/64 are complex instruction set computing architectures, i cant see them moving over to RISC anytime soon, seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.
Click to expand...

For who? The everyday users and developers or for a specific subset of computing architects?
 
sackings

sackings

Member
By the time they catch up, we'll have already reached the silicon limit and be looking for alternatives like graphite, quantum etc
 
AJUMP23

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
Optimus Lime said:
You mean the 1 Sony exclusive and 3 Nintendo exclusives every year? Out of every game that is released to market?

I mean, come on. Be serious.
Click to expand...


That take of his could not be serious. Just so outlandish. The PC has lots of great games and even Sony has started porting games to the PC. PC is also the best place for RTS and Strategy games.
 
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