superdeluxe
Member
Would be a good way to provide safe haven for the Syrian Turkmen of the north.
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At least 28 killed, 45 wounded after huge explosion in capital of Turkey
- Thread starter superdeluxe
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Would be a good way to provide safe haven for the Syrian Turkmen of the north.
What a sensationalist headline. Sounds more like impotent saber rattling. Not a "vow to retaliate"
The Artisan
Member
damn man 
heart goes out to those lost & their families. I really hope the whole of 2016 won't be like this
heart goes out to those lost & their families. I really hope the whole of 2016 won't be like thisStereogatari
Banned
Government and military need to react strongly. I've had quite enough of all this. I'm going to Ankara in Easter...
I dislike the AKP government and I'm a Turkish citizen but have lived my whole life in UK. But I've spent nearly every Summer of my life in Turkey and obviously love it very much etc.
However Middle Eastern has a lot of connotations that don't fit Turkey and Turkish people. So for that reason it can be misleading to present Turkey as Middle Eastern. Turkey is as Middle Eastern as Israel is. Location yes. But development is far more like a European country.
Hey now, that's half true.
I dislike the AKP government and I'm a Turkish citizen but have lived my whole life in UK. But I've spent nearly every Summer of my life in Turkey and obviously love it very much etc.
Turkey is dedinitely a Middle Eastern country. I mean the top public university is called the Middle Eastern Technical University.
However Middle Eastern has a lot of connotations that don't fit Turkey and Turkish people. So for that reason it can be misleading to present Turkey as Middle Eastern. Turkey is as Middle Eastern as Israel is. Location yes. But development is far more like a European country.
This should have been done years ago. NATO/UN controlled safe haven for all refugees.
Phantast2k
Member
True. Merkel is probably also hoping for this to stop the refugee flow since she's under pressure within the EU for her liberal views on the issue. Turkey will receive upwards of 3 billion to take care of the refugees (but also curb the smugglers and strengthen the borders).
I mean, they're already at the doorstep. Erdogan is a strongman similar to Putin. So he doesn't really have choice but to react.
Like he reacted to the previous bombing?
And it's not like a ground operation is his only option.
Phantast2k
Member
That was ISIS though. They are already being taken care of by multiple parties.
Different Kurdish factions have started attacking the Sunni rebels near the border under RU air support. At the same time, Aleppo is at risk of being encircled & other rebel areas of being cut off = hundreds of thousands of new refugees.
Turkey will definitely move. Against the Kurds most likely through their official forces, against Assad's hybrid army most likely through rebels and Turkish "green men" with manpads (at least at first). That's what will go down in the best case scenario, without a direct Turkish-Russian war. And it'll continue until Russia implodes in the near future.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
Leader of the Swedish office of PJAK was shot a few days ago. Wonder if it's related.
I'm aware the PKK has a violent past, but I'm unaware of any civilian attacks in recent memory. They were trying to make peace with the Turkish government quite recently, and have never targeted anybody so far from the Kurdish homeland. The only reason to assume is a Kurdish connection is the word of the Turkish government, while Reuters reports that ISIS could be culpable. This fits ISIS' MO much more closely, and the PKK would gain absolutely nothing from this attack. The Turkish government also has a history of unreliability in this regard.
I'll stay skeptical until we see an admission by the leaders of the Workers' Party.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Assad just granted general amnesty to all enemy fighters that surrender in the next 30 days, with the rebels losing , if Turkey doesnt move to protect their proxies in Syria, there is a big change the demoralized just take the offer.
And even if they dont take it, this amnesty creates distrust between the commanders and their troops.
The Artisan
Member
didn't get to watch the news this week but i'm hoping they'll cover an update on the weekend
AcademicSaucer
Member
The PKK and the PYD have denied any involvement and the SDF has condemned the attacks.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Convenient timing if you're a Turkish warmonger.
Phantast2k
Member
Turkish army says six officers killed by bomb near Diyarbakir
Now this evening PKK apprentlyleaked released this video of the IED attack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IC_nhMHOQE
Site linked to the channel: http://www.gerillatv.net/
But that other attack less than a day before that one, that was totally not them (I guess because civilians died too?)
(The area & bus type / color are consistent with the aftermath video on news sites)
Turkish shelling of Kurdish held Syrian areas seems to intensify (judging from the amount of amateur videos):
https://twitter.com/taylieli/status/700385302435782656
https://twitter.com/taylieli/status/700391031221723140
https://twitter.com/taylieli/status/700405960616124416
Purported pics of it:
Source
That statement is ironic in a number of ways.
Now this evening PKK apprently
Site linked to the channel: http://www.gerillatv.net/
But that other attack less than a day before that one, that was totally not them (I guess because civilians died too?)
(The area & bus type / color are consistent with the aftermath video on news sites)
Turkish shelling of Kurdish held Syrian areas seems to intensify (judging from the amount of amateur videos):
https://twitter.com/taylieli/status/700385302435782656
https://twitter.com/taylieli/status/700391031221723140
https://twitter.com/taylieli/status/700405960616124416
Purported pics of it:
Source
That statement is ironic in a number of ways.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqM20tkzOK0
So uh.. is this the PYD effectively declaring war on Turkey?
edit: probably best not to say anything concrete this early
So uh.. is this the PYD effectively declaring war on Turkey?
edit: probably best not to say anything concrete this early
Funyarinpa
Member
Yours truly. Though I live in Istanbul. My relatives in Ankara are safe.
Yep, pretty much.
NyMartin90
Member
I'm in Istanbul right now. I just spent the week traveling around Istanbul, Cappadocia and Izmir.
It's a shame since Izmir is honestly amazing.
It's a shame since Izmir is honestly amazing.
Phantast2k
Member
I was still in doubt about the bolded (the bus seemed somewhat short):
Then I came across this article in which this pic of the aftermath is included:
Turkey Blames Kurdish Militia for Ankara Attack, Challenging U.S. - The New York Times
It says "_ZU" there which points to ISUZU so I googled for "ISUZU armored bus"
There it is:
http://www.isuzu.com.tr/_docs/catalogs/en/euro 2.pdf
This definitely checks out.
I saw this first and though it looked fake (weird cuts in the video) - though obviously I don't know the language:CHEEZMO™;195810251 said:
Footage shows PYD/YPG declaring war on Turkey in Syrias Amude, hometown of Ankara bomber - Daily Sabah
But then your version is full + published by a Kurdish channel. Welp.
/
Stay safe.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
So just as Turkey tries to get its military involved in the Syrian mess, it's bombed, and Turkey blames the exact groups which would justify its military's involvement in the Syrian mess.
Sounds incredibly suspicious to me. Why on earth would the YPG care to bomb Turkey? They have nothing to gain, and Erdogan has much to gain.
Sounds incredibly suspicious to me. Why on earth would the YPG care to bomb Turkey? They have nothing to gain, and Erdogan has much to gain.
AcademicSaucer
Member
It seems that the fatalities included 26 military(22 of those were airforce pilots) and 2 civilians.
Yes it does seem awfully convenient, though as much as Erdogan and Putin are two sides of the same coin, I don't really see Erdogan bombing its own military (then again they're historically also not on particularly good footing). Most likely it's the PKK. I'm sure though there are many links between PKK and YPG that would be enough for Erdogan to justify it for himself (but probably not the rest of Nato).
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
AcademicSaucer
Member
Hospital Footage of civilians who were wounded by Turkish artillery shelling of kurdish cities in Syria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzFfe_zw7lI
NSFW
My understanding is that TAK is a splintergroup from PKK, as in they are no longer part of the PKK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzFfe_zw7lI
NSFW
CHEEZMO™;195902180 said:
My understanding is that TAK is a splintergroup from PKK, as in they are no longer part of the PKK.
superdeluxe
Member
What a giant mess this becoming..and the US is pushing NATO to get involved against ISIS. Germany does not want to because it risk confrontation with Russia.
Around and Around this thing goes.
Around and Around this thing goes.
TheRealTalker
Banned
so it was a Kurdish group
goodness this tension and future retaliation will just make things more and more worse on both sides
goodness this tension and future retaliation will just make things more and more worse on both sides
A splinter group inside Turkey who named a completely different person as the bomber. If anything this just discredits Turkey and makes them look desperate in the eyes of their allies.
TheRealTalker
Banned
that groups statement even had a photo shopped image for their alleged bomber
what is more likely is that this group is claiming it to get recognition and publicity but I doubt Turkey is involved in doing it since
a) a power like Turkey wouldn't fuck up a photo job
b) Turkey wouldn't kill its own people and shoulders for a retaliation
your statement has a much merit as 9/11 conspiracy theories :/
what is more plausible is it being some group that wants to retaliate against turkey for some reason or another... either by revenge for shelling, or something else
superdeluxe
Member
How does this discredit Turkey? I thought the group was the ones to claim they made this attack.
Wasn't implying a conspiracy. Merely that Turkey is desperate and will say anything for support. I didn't say anything about them bombing their own citizens.
Turkey blamed the YPG and the PKK. This is the TAK a group no longer linked with the PKK.
TheRealTalker
Banned
in which I said that if Turkey would want to make a false statement in order to blame the Kurds they wouldn't do a crappy Photoshop shoot and be rather more professional
I know that this is off topic but I recall Turkey trying to get into the EU. I wonder if the agreement is for them to keep refugees out of the EU, and they get membership in exchange.
I can't believe that Turkey would do this to itself as well.
1. It makes Turkey look insecure - bad for tourism.
2. It makes the Turkish government look weak. Allowing something like this to happen so close to their parliament building and offices of the leaders of the military.
If it was ISIS, then that would also be a problem because, to my understanding, they have a sort of deal with Turkey and this would be a major violation of that. This would be a declaration of war, basically.
It won't change much to Turkey's point, which will still point to the Kurds and claim a need for a safezone at the Syrian border. The fact that it is a Kurdish group, a splinter group of the PKK is annoying to the Americans who see Turkey as an ally but want to support the Kurds.
No one realy has any idea who did it. TAK is a possibility, though it seems more likely that they're simply calling Turkey's leadership out on their absolute bullshit claim that it was a YPG member from Syria. Erdogan has no way of discrediting the TAK claim because the Turkish leadership also made up their evidence themselves (and US gov spokesmen have now stated 3 times they don't believe Turkey -- a NATO ally). If it was TAK, they've demonstrated a remarkable increase in sophistication. They killed scores of Turkish troops mere meters from Turkish parliament, and they killed another 6 yesterday. If they did it, they were getting assistance from somewhere or someone.
I personally don't think Turkey will intervene in Syria, except perhaps to protect al-Qaeda's tiny Azaz pocket. They're a paper tiger, incapable of defeating Kurdish rebels in their own territory, much less in Syria. Rojava is very different from Southern Kurdistan.
I personally don't think Turkey will intervene in Syria, except perhaps to protect al-Qaeda's tiny Azaz pocket. They're a paper tiger, incapable of defeating Kurdish rebels in their own territory, much less in Syria. Rojava is very different from Southern Kurdistan.
TheRealTalker
Banned
are you talking about the Armenian Genocide?
AcademicSaucer
Member
It doesnt seem that OTAN is going to back Turkey on Syria.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/syrien-warnung-aus-der-nato-an-die-tuerkei-a-1078275.html
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/syrien-warnung-aus-der-nato-an-die-tuerkei-a-1078275.html
Merkel will make a deal with Turkey but entry into the EU as part of that isn't happening. Erdogen's recent actions against Russia and his aid to ISIS has greatly decreased his chances of membership for the next few years.
Fixed
The TAK certainly seems counterproductive for the Kurdish goals. The PKK seemed to want to avoid conflict with the Turkish govt while dealing with ISIS but the TAK keeps stoking the flames. Either they're impulsive angry people without a plan or they're helping ISIS on purpose.
No, they're getting easy visas, Turkey is violating too many rules of the EU to join. Hell, if they did they'd probably get sued to hell and back on the EU courts.
No, they're getting easy visas, Turkey is violating too many rules of the EU to join. Hell, if they did they'd probably get sued to hell and back on the EU courts.
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