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[Drkirby]

... You forgot to factor in population.

Japan has about 128 million people, so 1:20 people in japan own a wii.

The North America has a total of 523 Million people in it, so 1:40 people own it, if you count all of North America.

If you count only the US and Canada, who add up to 339 Million (305 million in US, 34 million in Canada), it goes to 1:26

Now, if we pretend only people in the US own a NA Wii, then the rate is still only 1:23 people own a wii.

All and all, japan has a larger percent of people who own a Wii compared to there pollution to any way you slice the NA figures, from 2X to a slimier 15%.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Yes, PS3 is much better hardware and value. But no a lot of people in US still understand that.
Mainly people see it as a game machine and it is priced higher. More high profile games --> more sales.
If It takes 3 years for a new format to start gaining traction -- then it's 2009 for PS3, when blu-ray will really matter.

Situation is very much different in Europe though. Everybody you ask at least knows what blu-ray is, HD penetration is high and a lot of people actually USE it -- i.e. HDMI or component cables not composite )


PS3 will lose this holiday, but thanks to 80 Gb and 160 Gb + Little Big Planet + Resistance 2 + Motorstorm 2 by low margin. This will be the last christmas they will ever lose to 360 in the US.

The goalposts, they keep on moving. :lol

 

[Soule]

Jesus Scarlett Johansson is still derailing this thread? She has longer legs than Wii Fit, just keeps on popping up.

 

[Scrubking]

The Wii is inhospitiable for 3rd party publishers.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

The Wii is inhospitiable for 3rd party publishers.

So much failure, how could they equate madden to all 3rd party failures?

Especially with such a terrible cover.

Jesus Scarlett Johansson is still derailing this thread? She has longer legs than Wii Fit, just keeps on popping up.

That is a good derail.

The bad derail was the random pics 3 pages ago.

 

[okrim]

PS3's path is determined already. I've always said that a system's future is determined in its first 18 months. Even with price drops, being the choice HD media, PS3 sales are still slow overall. Any chance of it exploding or exceeding the 360 base is pretty much nil. Its still 5 million behind and sales of the PS3 are not high enough to overtake the 360 anytime soon. Maybe in 3-4 years but anytime soon? Hardly. If the 360 gets a huge sales boost from the price drop, change that 3-4 years to never.

Saying "Wait for LBP" is a joke. Sounds like the Game Cube defense force.

"Wait for Mario Sunshine!" "Wait for Wind Waker!" You get the point.

This isn't some PS3 troll and it is hilarious how Sony fans treat anything less than worship of the PS3 to be trolling and to have some ulterior motive. Not everyone is so radically anti Sony that they have this agenda to topple a pile of plastic and silicon. It is just that not everyone is wowed by its software selection or its performance. Not every "jab at PS3" is from a 360 or a Wii owner either.

Wait a minute...360 had the same 'slow' selling during is 'life' than ps3 in 2008, so are you a fan or a troll of microsoft if it isn't for 360 and slow for the ps3 ?

 

[Jokeropia]

???

Wii is selling the most hardware and software, thus it is the majority's preferred console. I don't wanna start a discussion about the definition of "gamer" as it's a bit too subjective for my liking.

I don't know what you're trying to prove with this?

A #1 is obviously worth more than a #10. How much more varies from person to person, but since I don't have as much time to spend on videogames as I used to it's very important to me that I at least play the best of the best.

What about attach rates?

What about them? Wii has an historically good tie-ratio. Not as good as the 360's, but better than the average.

sales are one thing, but implying that sales = quality is a stretch surely?

Those were two separate statements. I fully acknowledge that the first one is my opinion, while his inability to do the same prompted me to post the second.

Damn. More than the PS2?

50 million in the first 18 months compared to 42 for PS2. This is US NPD numbers so Wii Sports is counted. The 8 million difference also allows for the removal of Wii Play without the order changing.

You're basing Madden 08 legs on 2 NPD months?

I have a few more data points, but they're based on non-public data and is off limits by GAF NPD rules.

GTAIV has sold over 10 million worldwide though. It must be something like 6 million on 360 and 4 on the Ps3.

Will Mario Kart sell that?

ABSOLUTELY. It sold 6.5 million in 2.5 months (April release to end of June) and is now almost three months later still hanging out in the top of the charts in all markets.

Yikes. The Wii is more non-gamer than I thought.

Uh, not all gamers play Madden. Don't be stupid.

All and all, japan has a larger percent of people who own a Wii compared to there pollution to any way you slice the NA figures, from 2X to a slimier 15%.

This has historically been the case for all winning systems, though.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Wii is selling the most hardware and software, thus it is the majority's preferred console. I don't wanna start a discussion about the definition of "gamer" as it's a bit too subjective for my liking.

I agree with you, the definition of gamer can be twisted in so many directions.

 

[Firestorm]

For people asking about Tales of Vesperia, I just looked at the leaderboard and noticed that there are more than 70k names on the leaderboard. I know it isn't concrete, just throwing out what I see.

How do you get to the leaderboard? Are scores sent to it automatically? Is it only once you finish the game?

 

[Philthy]

It's a great device, I just think Sony totally dropped the ball in marketing and consumer awareness. They keep trying to compete head to head against Microsoft in gaming when they should be spending more time getting consumers more aware that the machine does a lot more than the 360.

I had a long message typed out, but it would probably just be easier to say that you wont ever see Sony promoting their own Blu-Ray player over others. The format is partially theirs, and the last thing they want to do is look down on other partners players. The other features the PS3 does well just aren't even worth mentioning over their competition. It's not going to sway people one way or the other. Free online gaming is about the only thing I can see Sony pushing more, everything else is pretty much moot at this point. I prefer my PS3 over my 360, but I can't really give any examples of why I would tell anyone to buy it over the 360 other than I like the overall aesthetics, the free online, and the fact I don't have to pay for themes.

 

[Dragmire]

The Wii is inhospitiable for 3rd party publishers.

No way. It's still the publisher's fault. Madden doesn't sell on Wii because it's Madden. But something more like 'Wii Football' would sell craploads. Get rid of the annual updates for the Wii version, EA. Just make a good, accessible football game and it could possibly even outsell Madden 360.

I think MotionPlus next year could help, too.

 

[Luckyman]

The Wii is inhospitiable for 3rd party publishers.

For 3rd parties Wii is a place for licensed properties and games that come with a peripheral.

It´s not the place for Call of Duties and Maddens..

 

[Hcoregamer00]

No way. It's still the publisher's fault. Madden doesn't sell on Wii because it's Madden. But something more like 'Wii Football' would sell craploads. Get rid of the annual updates for the Wii version, EA. Just make a good, accessible football game and it could possibly even outsell Madden 360.

I think MotionPlus next year could help, too.

You are asking for the impossible, that is like asking a 500 pound guy to swim from USA to China with no stops.

 

[Sadist]

Cowen Group analyst Doug Creutz says that the Wii version of Madden 09 sold 79 percent less units than the PS3 version, and 87 percent less units than the 360 version, despite a larger console install base and a better Metacritic rating.

EA Sports' Peter Moore also recently talked to Gamasutra about the Wii edition of Madden, specially designed this year with an "All-Play" feature designed to increase accessibility to the Wii's largely casual install base.

"We continue to believe that the Wii is a relatively inhospitable platform for third-party publishers," Creutz says.

He thinks like a hardly-core.

 

[Eteric Rice]

For 3rd parties Wii is a place for licensed properties and games that come with a peripheral.

It´s not the place for Call of Duties and Maddens..

It's not the place for Call of Duties or Maddens when you fuck them up.

EA needs to find a new way to attract the Wii fanbase. What about a Madden that plays like Konami's soccer game? Or how about a first-person Madden?

Same deal with Call of Duty. You can't just shoe horn shit on the Wii and expect it to sell. I think Western publishers are having trouble understanding this. Japan on the other hand, is catching on faster I think.

And that article is retarded, I mean really.

 

[vanguardian1]

You are asking for the impossible, that is like asking a 500 pound guy to swim from USA to China with no stops.

What's Madden?

 

[RJT]

For 3rd parties Wii is a place for licensed properties and games that come with a peripheral.

It´s not the place for Call of Duties and Maddens..

And Resident Evils.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

What's Madden?

Touche

 

[beef3483]

The Wii is inhospitiable for 3rd party publishers.

Well Guitar Hero says that the Wii is the best console of all for third parties.

See what happens when I limit the sample size to one? The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, taking into account the market for which you are selling. As has been pointed out Tiger Woods has sold the best on Wii and I expect that to continue with this years version even though the 360 has a better head start (no different that Guitar Hero 3 really).

 

[ghostlyjoe]

That "analysis" of Madden Wii is directly contradicted by Nintendo's own third-party figures.

But that aside, I just don't get how the gaming community (GAF, analysts, publishers, enthusiast press) have bought into this core/casual divide. They act like "casuals" are this mongoloid alien race that celebrates mediocrity above all else (a notion, ironically, contradicted by Madden Wii sales .

The theory of Wii's "casual" demographic is one giant logical fallacy built on a mountain of smaller logical fallacies. It is the product of wishful thinking and selective observation. Like Bigfoot, the existence of the casual army can be proven only through indirect or circumstantial evidence. Consider what the gaming community "knows" about the casual:

1. Casuals lack sophistication and eschew complexity.

2. Casuals are easily hypnotized by cartoonish visuals and/or pop-culture iconography.

3. Casuals are miserly penny-pinchers who will buy the cheapest option first, regardless of merit.

4. Casuals are fiercely loyal to brand above all else and are allergic to the unfamiliar.

5. Casuals steal core babies in the dark of the night and secret them away to their underground lairs, where they enslave them and farm them for food.

These properties -- yes, they comprise a strawman argument, but before you start screaming about rhetorical flaws, ask yourself honestly if the strawman is really that far removed from GAF's notion of the casual -- are obviously exaggerated and contradictory. But I've seen casuals accused of so many things on this board. They've quite clearly been mythologized, and while accepting the unreal as truth may make "core gamers" feel better about themselves, it's a very poor underpinning for a business strategy.

Is it really that hard to understand why publishers who condescend to Wii gamers (by doing things like relegating only secondary, "casualized" versions of their IPs to the platform) are having trouble finding success there? It seems to me that publishers (like Nintendo itself) who take Wii gamers seriously are generally very well rewarded.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

That "analysis" of Madden Wii is directly contradicted by Nintendo's own third-party figures.

But that aside, I just don't get how the gaming community (GAF, analysts, publishers, enthusiast press) have bought into this core/casual divide. They act like "casuals" are this mongoloid alien race that celebrates mediocrity above all else (a notion, ironically, contradicted by Madden Wii sales .

The theory of Wii's "casual" demographic is one giant logical fallacy built on a mountain of smaller logical fallacies. It is the product of wishful thinking and selective observation. Like Bigfoot, the existence of the casual army can be proven only through indirect or circumstantial evidence. Consider what the gaming community "knows" about the casual:

1. Casuals lack sophistication and eschew complexity.

2. Casuals are easily hypnotized by cartoonish visuals and/or pop-culture iconography.

3. Casuals are miserly penny-pinchers who will buy the cheapest option first, regardless of merit.

4. Casuals are fiercely loyal to brand above all else and are allergic to the unfamiliar.

5. Casuals steal core babies in the dark of the night and secret them away to their underground lairs, where they enslave them and farm them for food.

These properties -- yes, they comprise a strawman argument, but before you start screaming about rhetorical flaws, ask yourself honestly if the strawman is really that far removed from GAF's notion of the casual -- are obviously exaggerated and contradictory. But I've seen casuals accused of so many things on this board. They've quite clearly been mythologized, and while accepting the unreal as truth may make "core gamers" feel better about themselves, it's a very poor underpinning for a business strategy.

Is it really that hard to understand why publishers who condescend to Wii gamers (by doing things like relegating only secondary, "casualized" versions of their IPs to the platform) are having trouble finding success there? It seems to me that publishers (like Nintendo itself) who take Wii gamers seriously are generally very well rewarded.

If that is true, then why isn't Veperia number 1?

I wish casual gamers were swayed by cartoonish visuals, because we need more cel shading.

 

[ghostlyjoe]

If that is true, then why isn't Veperia number 1?

I wish casual gamers were swayed by cartoonish visuals, because we need more cel shading.

Well, I was laying out the fallacy of the "casual." For the record, I don't believe these casuals actually exist.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Well, I was laying out the fallacy of the "casual." For the record, I don't believe these casuals actually exist.

Hence why I posted that I wish it were true.

Your argument is awesome, there really is no need to argue it. I just wish in my heart of hearts that number 2 was kind of true just because I want more visual styles in videogames.

 

[typhonsentra]

I'd really like to know how Disgaea did.

 

[WrikaWrek]

I just don't understand Wii fanboys.

I mean, sure, the concept of the Wii has a lot of charm, but with the current gaming library one would think that at least most of Nintendo fans would be pissed at the situation, but seems like it's happy land.

I mean really? What game from that top 10 did you get for your Wii for example. Or another game that was out in august or july for example.

That's where the casuals vs gaming enthusiast come in. Imo the software offerings of the Wii is like asking someone who likes meat and all kinds of food to become a vegan.

I understand that some people chose to live that lifestyle, but i don't see how someone who has enjoyed the pleasures of life thus far, simply change lifestyle because their fav company says it's the thing to do.

Stop being so fucking happy about it, stop buying shovelware and maybe those game publishers will start changing their ways.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I just don't understand Wii fanboys.

I mean, sure, the concept of the Wii has a lot of charm, but with the current gaming library one would think that at least most of Nintendo fans would be pissed at the situation, but seems like it's happy land.

I mean really? What game from that top 10 did you get for your Wii for example. Or another game that was out in august or july for example.

That's where the casuals vs gaming enthusiast come in. Imo the software offerings of the Wii is like asking someone who likes meat and all kinds of food to become a vegan.

I understand that some people chose to live that lifestyle, but i don't see how someone who has enjoyed the pleasures of life thus far, simply change lifestyle because their fav company says it's the thing to do.

Stop being so fucking happy about it, stop buying shovelware and maybe those game publishers will start changing their ways.

This thread makes me think otherwise, to be sincere: http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334173

 

[Count Dookkake]

I just don't understand Wii fanboys.

I mean, sure, the concept of the Wii has a lot of charm, but with the current gaming library one would think that at least most of Nintendo fans would be pissed at the situation, but seems like it's happy land.

I mean really? What game from that top 10 did you get for your Wii for example. Or another game that was out in august or july for example.

That's where the casuals vs gaming enthusiast come in. Imo the software offerings of the Wii is like asking someone who likes meat and all kinds of food to become a vegan.

I understand that some people chose to live that lifestyle, but i don't see how someone who has enjoyed the pleasures of life thus far, simply change lifestyle because their fav company says it's the thing to do.

Stop being so fucking happy about it, stop buying shovelware and maybe those game publishers will start changing their ways.

I've got approximately 30 Wii games not including VC. None of them are shovelware. I will continue being happy. I will also continue to buy stock in tissues for the flood of tears my happiness brings.

 

[Belgorim]

I've got approximately 30 Wii games not including VC. None of them are shovelware. I will continue being happy. I will also continue to buy stock in tissues for the flood of tears my happiness brings.

Man... I wouldnt even find 30 games I like on the ps2

 

[WrikaWrek]

I've got approximately 30 Wii games not including VC. None of them are shovelware. I will continue being happy. I will also continue to buy stock in tissues for the flood of tears my happiness brings.

30 games? Damn. Can't even imagine what games they are.

 

[Jammy]

For 3rd parties Wii is a place for licensed properties and games that come with a peripheral.

It´s not the place for Call of Duties and Maddens..

Who says it's not a place for Call of Duty? Call of Duty 3 - the last CoD game that was on all three systems - sold more on Wii than PS3 by quite a bit.

Also, Wii's pretty much the place for everything BUT Madden. There's far more examples of Wii versions like Harry Potter, The Bigs, Tiger Woods, Wall-e, Guitar Hero, Lego Indiana Jones, etc. etc. selling better on it than other systems when there's a simultaneous launch.

 

[Jokeropia]

I mean, sure, the concept of the Wii has a lot of charm, but with the current gaming library one would think that at least most of Nintendo fans would be pissed at the situation

Nintendo's first party output is as great as ever (even just considering the core games) and even third parties are starting to deliver now. (Thinking of late 2008 and 2009 lineup.)

Imo the software offerings of the Wii is..

That's your problem right there. Assuming everyone should have the same opinion as you.

Stop being so fucking happy about it, stop buying shovelware and maybe those game publishers will start changing their ways.

In general, the good games outsell the shovelware.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Nintendo's first party output is as great as ever (even just considering the core games) and even third parties are starting to deliver now. (Thinking of late 2008 and 2009 lineup.)

I am not a fan of the wii (needs some more Japanese RPG's), but even I admit that the Japanese lineup for 2009 is starting to look superb.

Hopefully they don't stay in Japan.

 

[Sadist]

I just don't understand Wii fanboys.

I mean, sure, the concept of the Wii has a lot of charm, but with the current gaming library one would think that at least most of Nintendo fans would be pissed at the situation, but seems like it's happy land.

I mean really? What game from that top 10 did you get for your Wii for example. Or another game that was out in august or july for example.

That's where the casuals vs gaming enthusiast come in. Imo the software offerings of the Wii is like asking someone who likes meat and all kinds of food to become a vegan.

I understand that some people chose to live that lifestyle, but i don't see how someone who has enjoyed the pleasures of life thus far, simply change lifestyle because their fav company says it's the thing to do.

Stop being so fucking happy about it, stop buying shovelware and maybe those game publishers will start changing their ways.

Stop being a tool.

Do you think everybody is happy? Of course the Wii fanbase wants more games. But it's kind of hard if publishers/developers don't even try or take a risk.

 

[chemicals]

pleasantly surprised by Too Human.. I like the fact that a 360 exclusive is on the top 10.

 

[Firewire]

Month to month these threads give out a huge deja vu feel.

 

[Count Dookkake]

30 games? Damn. Can't even imagine what games they are.

Fighting games, shooting games, music games, racing games, classics collections, waggle-party games, GOTYs, things like that. Then when you throw in the VC and WiiWare, it's a lot more.

I understand not everyone is interested in hardcore gaming, but the Wii suits me just fine.

 

[just tray]

Just because everyone's grandmother goes out and buys a Wii doesn't mean that it is a great gaming system. Seriously outside of the Nintendo brand games, there's not much that I play on my Wii. Take away Smash Bros,Galaxy,Mario Kart and Zelda and what do you have? The real Gamecube 2 isn't the PS3,it's the Wii except that Nintendo foud a way to pawn it off to senior citizens and soccer moms. If the 360 and PS3 had similar control schemes the Wii would not be the hot item that it is. The difference between the PS3 and 360 and Wii is that the PS3 and 360 has a nearly steady stream of hit games, we won't see a Nintendo game that we really want to see besides Animal crossing until 2009.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Man that last post was so bad I'm not even quoting it.
Has to be a joke.

 

[Sadist]

Why does everyone use the logic of "when you take the Nintendo games away..."? You can't do that, because they are a part of the system.

 

[domokunrox]

Just because everyone's grandmother goes out and buys a Wii doesn't mean that it is a great gaming system. Seriously outside of the Nintendo brand games, there's not much that I play on my Wii. Take away Smash Bros,Galaxy,Mario Kart and Zelda and what do you have? The real Gamecube 2 isn't the PS3,it's the Wii except that Nintendo foud a way to pawn it off to senior citizens and soccer moms. If the 360 and PS3 had similar control schemes the Wii would not be the hot item that it is. The difference between the PS3 and 360 and Wii is that the PS3 and 360 has a nearly steady stream of hit games, we won't see a Nintendo game that we really want to see besides Animal crossing until 2009.

There isn't a facepalm big enough to express my reaction to this post right here.

 

[Nicktals]

Just because everyone's grandmother goes out and buys a Wii doesn't mean that it is a great gaming system. Seriously outside of the Nintendo brand games, there's not much that I play on my Wii. Take away Smash Bros,Galaxy,Mario Kart and Zelda and what do you have? The real Gamecube 2 isn't the PS3,it's the Wii except that Nintendo foud a way to pawn it off to senior citizens and soccer moms. If the 360 and PS3 had similar control schemes the Wii would not be the hot item that it is. The difference between the PS3 and 360 and Wii is that the PS3 and 360 has a nearly steady stream of hit games, we won't see a Nintendo game that we really want to see besides Animal crossing until 2009.

Uh-oh, do we need list wars?

Why does everyone use the logic of "when you take the Nintendo games away..."? You can't do that, because they are a part of the system.

In fact, they're the reason the system exists in the first place.

 

[Kilrogg]

Hopefully they don't stay in Japan.

[OT]See, this is Wii's double-edged asset for me. While overall I like Japanese games, genres and aesthetics most, the problem with a mainly Japanese library is that most games either come out much later in the rest of the world (especially in Europe where I live), or don't come out at all. Who's to say for example that Kizuna and Oboro Muramasa Youtouden won't be released one or two years after the Japanese version, if at all? With Western developers, you don't have to worry as much about those things (except if you live in Japan, of course).[/OT]

 

[AstroLad]

Why does everyone use the logic of "when you take the Nintendo games away..."? You can't do that, because they are a part of the system.

yes, but they are first party

 

[levious]

Why does everyone use the logic of "when you take the Nintendo games away..."? You can't do that, because they are a part of the system.

take away the hit games, innovation, low price, what are you left with?

 

[Count Dookkake]

take away the hit games, innovation, low price, what are you left with?

The spectacular shaming of the HD twins?

 

[just tray]

yes, but they are first party

And yes they were all released earlier this year. I'm just responding to the Wii fanboys. The quality of 360 and PS3 games are far above that of Wii. When is teh last time a great Wii game was released? When is the next big Wii game coming out besides Animal Crossing? Please don't say Wii Music because I don't care about that crap.

 

[Ariexv]

Just out of curiosity what does the Wii have coming up? I haven't bought anything new for it since Mario Kart and I haven't seen anything new that looks interesting.

For the record I have
Twilight Princess(GC)
Mario Galaxy
Super Smash
Mario Kart
Metroid
RE4
House of the Dead
Wii Sports
Wii Play
and I've beaten No more heroes.

 

[Redd]

I just don't understand Wii fanboys.

I mean, sure, the concept of the Wii has a lot of charm, but with the current gaming library one would think that at least most of Nintendo fans would be pissed at the situation, but seems like it's happy land.

I mean really? What game from that top 10 did you get for your Wii for example. Or another game that was out in august or july for example.

That's where the casuals vs gaming enthusiast come in. Imo the software offerings of the Wii is like asking someone who likes meat and all kinds of food to become a vegan.

I understand that some people chose to live that lifestyle, but i don't see how someone who has enjoyed the pleasures of life thus far, simply change lifestyle because their fav company says it's the thing to do.

Stop being so fucking happy about it, stop buying shovelware and maybe those game publishers will start changing their ways.

Some people have more than one console. I would think most of gaf has more than one at least, could be wrong though. For the games on the Wii that I own I'm enjoying. I can get everything else on my PS3. Strange thing is if I take out all the PS2 games I've bought over the last 6 months I notice I have more Wii games than PS3. Also notice most of my Wii games are Nintendo made games. Can you blame me, most third party efforts on the Wii are piss poor imo.

 

[Ranger X]

The Wii is inhospitiable for 3rd party publishers.

This is ridiculous. The PS2 userbase is WAY larger than the Wii one so i would expect to have more sales on the PS2.

Also, sports games are serious more often than not. Casuals want to play some serious football exactly like on 360 and PS3. Seriously, this "all play" move + the boxart is what killed them. Third party publishers continue to NOT understand the Wii.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Just out of curiosity what does the Wii have coming up? I haven't bought anything new for it since Mario Kart and I haven't seen anything new that looks interesting.

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334173