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August 2008 NPD Results
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
pr0cs
Member
I don't understand how the PS3 isn't selling better. There is a lot of value in that box. Even if you add in the fact that it's a great DVD player and one of the best (is it still the best?) BD player I expected it to sell a lot more. Even if we ignore the gaming point of view I don't understand why it's not selling better.
Do people looking for a BD player discount it as a game machine.. and vis versa?
Do people looking for a BD player discount it as a game machine.. and vis versa?
funkmastergeneral
Banned
pr0cs said:
everyone doesn't care about BD, its not the huge jump DVD was from VHS. If I had the money I'd buy a PS3, but not for the blue rays. A better picture isn't worth the huge amount of price difference in blue rays compared to DVDs
DeaconKnowledge
Member
pr0cs said:
You overestimate the amount of people that give a fuck about Blu-Ray.
Its the bane of Sony's existence. They are holding out on a price drop (my guess) until a 45nm Cell or RSX is available. I know Toshiba announced plans in January. If they drop the price down 50 dollars and bundle with a game worth owning (Resistance 2 / Little Big Planet), I could see things changing.
Hell half the members on this forum are so paranoid about buying a PS3 without BC. I love my Playstation 3, but I still think without cross game voice messaging / voice chat, the 360 holds a huge advantage.
There are a ton of reasons it isn't selling more. The biggest though is, its 399 without bc, with incomplete online features, and has 80% the same library as the 360.
Hell half the members on this forum are so paranoid about buying a PS3 without BC. I love my Playstation 3, but I still think without cross game voice messaging / voice chat, the 360 holds a huge advantage.
There are a ton of reasons it isn't selling more. The biggest though is, its 399 without bc, with incomplete online features, and has 80% the same library as the 360.
pr0cs
Member
Yeah but if you look at the cost of a HDTV, decent speakers and AV receiver then $399 isn't really all that much.thuway said:
I seriously doubt anyone outside the hardcore gamer gives a shit about BC. There is a reason why Sony took it out.thuway said:
It's exceedingly difficult to buy a TV nowadays that isn't HD compatible.thuway said:
Blu Ray is overrated in terms of popularity. DVD isnt going away anytime soon. And outside of videophiles and tech junkies, there's no reason for people to run out to get a new player to watch the same movies they can on DVD for cheaper. On top of that, many people have TVs, receivers, Home Theatre all in one boxes, etc. with DVD players in them (convenience, space, etc.)pr0cs said:
I agree that PS3 is a great value, but I dont think Blu Ray is much of a factor for the casual consumer yet.
As much as I love my PS3, I think you are out of touch with reality on the grass roots. Say your 16, don't have a job, want to play Halo, and all your friends own Xbox 360s - how could you justify to yourself getting a PS3?pr0cs said:
Same games, same graphics, same everything. Sure you have to pay for online, sure you might have to buy a hard drive, and you probably won't have wireless, but thats the great deception. Percieved value > Real value.
Not to mention every single fucking JRPG this gen that is in HD is on the 360.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
thuway said:
Forget all the extraneous stuff.
The PS3 isn't selling better because it's too expensive for the games it has. Period.
People at large don't give a shit about Blu-Ray, BC, or the "Incomplete online."
I would duly disagree about the games being weak, but hey, I think the issues Sony has is consumer perception. Walk into any EB across the United States, troll any forum other than Neogaf, and read any response to "This [PS3 exclusive] is awesome."DeaconKnowledge said:
You'll see a bevy of replies that say, "The PS3 is $600!". Of course it isn't 600 bones, it hasn't been for a long time, but people still think it is.
pr0cs
Member
Well that is a different reason, that reason is because the 360 has outsold the PS3 and has a larger audience. People will go where their friends are. I guess this is the problem with price.thuway said:
I don't understand your comment, perceived > real, if that was the case the 360 perceived and real is less than the PS3.. unless again you're suggesting that people are going where their friends are.thuway said:
DeaconKnowledge
Member
thuway said:
That's just it; I never said the games were "Weak". The PS3 has value in its game library. But when you look at it outside of a bubble, it doesn't have the value it should for the price it costs (keeping in mind that most people don't care about Blu-Ray and BC).
A consumer will look at a PS3 and a 360 and a Wii and make the choice based on the breadth of the library and its value to them. To the average person, the PS3 is a more expensive 360 with less games.
Then you throw in the culture of console ownership (i.e. "All my friends have 360's or Wii's or PS3's") and you have another barrier to entry that weighs against the PS3 (by virtue of it having smaller install numbers). The less people to have one, the less incentive to GET one.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Fady K said:
You act like that's actually a big deal.
pr0cs said:
What I'm saying is- its a clever deception and it works well. People see the 360 is 50 dollars cheaper and jump on it. They suddenly forget that they have to pay for online as soon as they get home.
People don't care about wifi. They don't care about hard drives. Hell they don't really care about much whatsoever.
If I were Sony, I'd be thinking of making a tard pack right now. Remove the wifi, remove the hard drive, and put in a wired controller. Price it at $299, put a discount in there for LBP, and disable online until the consumer pays a $49.99 fee.
Sony could offset the cost if they wanted to with a tard pack.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
thuway said:
What's your definition of "work" exactly? Because that action plan would kill the PS3.
Sony has no chance at beating Microsoft this year in the US and they know it. They are slowly turning their boat around to stop hemorrhaging cash. The PS3 will stay at the high $399-499 price range until 2009 and for that the 360 will continue to outsell it in the US.
Software wise they are improving from last year and they've certainly have a chance to make a good business out of the system in the longterm - assuming that next gen isn't coming any time soon.
Software wise they are improving from last year and they've certainly have a chance to make a good business out of the system in the longterm - assuming that next gen isn't coming any time soon.
thuway said:
Consumer perception certainly does play its part. Though that and marketing really doesn't begin to explain the console market today.
Of course people here don't understand why the PS3 doesn't sell well. That's because they think that the console's collective value is worth a lot more than, well, everybody else. This is where you'll see the collective disdain for casual gaming come back and bite the hardly core types on the ass; the market that they so love mocking and the tastes that they so enjoy battering, actually constitutes the bulk of the gamer's market and is what sustained all the big sales in the past few generations.
Personally, even as someone who's interested in games like MGS4 and LBP, there's still much to little reason to invest several hundred dollars in a new video game console, even for all its slickness and value. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more than a few people feel the same way. There had better be more value to a console than watching blu-ray and playing a small handful of games that may or may not be unique and fun to play.
commariodore64
Member
Believe it or not but the 20-30 demographic happens to care. They make their own money and spend it. And they are the demographic Sony needs....pr0cs said:
I also think if Sony could kill the PS2 (without needing it for revenue) they would see people feeling the NEED to jump to the PS3... what is the incentive at $399? MGS4 mania is over - LBP is not as widely appealing as many estimate, and the major games are multi platform on a System that is now $199 - and to most people, visually on par. -Sony needs to do something sooner than later...
/ramble
DeaconKnowledge
Member
thuway said:
Again, could you define what you mean by "work"? Because right now the PS3 and 360 are trading 1-30K leads on a monthly basis.
The 360 plan as you described it is working for the 360 because that's the action plan it started with, and it has the games to facilitate it. People aren't picking it instead of the PS3 because of deferred online payments or lack of a hard drive.
PepsimanVsJoe said:
Lol...it ain't a big deal really. Its just that I found it a bit ironic that in many cases the guy would point to console loyalists when he is just the same if not more.
thuway said:
I agree with you that $299 would be killer, i'm sure any would agree too. Though I think removing the hard drive and having a wired controller might not be good for it at all, maaaybe no wi-fi.
I say release it with no pack-in game, and less space - like say 40GB for $299 or at least $350 for now, instead of 160GB.
CitizenCope
Member
There is actually some good discussion going on on this page here and we don't even need pics of our cousins to do it. You go Gaf!
indie85 said:
Realistically, to be honest, as much as people fight over the sales of one console to the next, if Little Big Planet is as big as most people are hoping it is. (BTW I played it, just setup a Kiosk in a Toys R Us with four controllers) None of the consoles will sit on store shelves this holiday. Whatever they can ship will = sold.
The Faceless Master
Member
seriously, some people who i have asked point out it doesn't play ps2 games, and i say what ps2 games are you gonna play. then they say they don't know, but it's nice to have...pr0cs said:
and i'm like... what?
it's psychological factor, just knowing that it's not there anymore and you can't have it makes some people see it as not as good...
and if i ask about 360 and BC, they say at least it plays halo!
thuway said:
I tend to agree with you. Sony doesn't need to concentrate on beating MS or Nintendo right now, they need to raise their install base and they need to give features that only the basic customers care about. Honestly I'd ditch WiFi and a 80 gig hard drive for a basic PS3 but with B/C. Casual customers may not use it as much as we do, but getting a new system that plays Blu-Ray and all your old playstation games will resonate far more than wifi, hard drive space and memory card slots.
The Faceless Master
Member
they can't drop the HDD people.
also, the cost difference between a 20 and a 80 in bulk is almost nothing.
if they don't save money with a smaller HDD, how can they lower the price?
also, the cost difference between a 20 and a 80 in bulk is almost nothing.
if they don't save money with a smaller HDD, how can they lower the price?
The Faceless Master said:
Yes, harddrives are cheap, and probably wouldn't make much a difference in cost. I'm just a saying stripped down PS3 that is B/C but lacking memory card slots, hard drive, and wifi and priced between 250-299 would way outsell any of the current SKU's....by alot.
PS3 sales will remain low until Sony drops the price or the US economy turns around. I agree the PS3 is good value at $399 (I bought my 40GB at that price), but when "Joe Six-Pack" goes into Walmart this holiday season he will buy the $199 console over the $399 one every time. When it comes to playing games the difference between the PS3 and 360 is minimal youre paying the premium to get the hard drive and blu-ray. Not many parents will care about the PS3s potential when it's costing them big $$$$ to fill up the car and heat their homes.
As for LBP being a big system seller - I just don't see it in the North American Market. LBP will sell well to existing PS3 owners but I just can't see it driving hardware sales. GT5 and MGS4 I can see - LBP not so much.
As for LBP being a big system seller - I just don't see it in the North American Market. LBP will sell well to existing PS3 owners but I just can't see it driving hardware sales. GT5 and MGS4 I can see - LBP not so much.
charlequin
Banned
pr0cs said:
People say this as if most families don't buy a single primary TV to last the household 10 years or more. Sure, if you're buying a brand-new TV today you are probably not getting one that can't be HDed, but plenty of people are still rocking TVs from 5+ years ago and don't necessarily want to add the cost of a replacement to the cost of a new console.
thuway said:
This is definitely the second worst idea I've seen in the NPD thread this month.
TheKurgan said:
The economy doesn't have anything to do with it. $399 is just too high. No console has ever done gangbuster numbers at that price in the US; the 360 plodded along at it and the Saturn sank almost instantly beneath the waves.
This last price drop, with a fully functional 360 at $200, is Microsoft's first stab at actually entering the real console market that Wii's been in the whole time instead of the tiny elite high-end market that the HD systems have been squabbling over this whole time. There's no guarantee that that'll give them a permanent sales boost, but I think it's pretty unambiguous that neither 360 or PS3 will ever consistently breach that ~250k figure per month until they hit that price level.
gtj1092 said:
GAF is nothing short of delusional about how this whole "casual"/"hardcore" split works. A lot of posters on here like to think that there are five million people just like them out there buying Madden and GTA each year when in fact the vast majority of those sales are going to frat brahs and teenage punkasses who couldn't give a shit about "gaming" as a hobby.
pr0cs said:
Yes, PS3 is much better hardware and value. But no a lot of people in US still understand that.
Mainly people see it as a game machine and it is priced higher. More high profile games --> more sales.
If It takes 3 years for a new format to start gaining traction -- then it's 2009 for PS3, when blu-ray will really matter.
Situation is very much different in Europe though. Everybody you ask at least knows what blu-ray is, HD penetration is high and a lot of people actually USE it -- i.e. HDMI or component cables not composite )
PS3 will lose this holiday, but thanks to 80 Gb and 160 Gb + Little Big Planet + Resistance 2 + Motorstorm 2 by low margin. This will be the last christmas they will ever lose to 360 in the US.
Zombie James
Banned
charlequin said:
Not saying I disagree, but that "tiny elite" market pushed them to over 20 million as it is. That's just 4 million shy of the original Xbox's total sales.
.funkmastergeneral
Banned
bycha said:
ahh I see, 2009 is now the year of the PS3?
charlequin
Banned
bycha said:
As a nigh-upon universal rule, the value of a game system is in its library. It's hard to argue that there's any sort of "average" gamer for whom the PS3 library is far and away superior to the 360 library, and the system (now) costs much more to buy into. That's all that really matters.
(If anything, I expect BluRay to become less of a factor from here on out -- the PS3 got a good boost out of it this year but if the format gets any greater traction it's not going to be on the back of the PS3 as the primary player.)
_leech_ said:
Maybe tiny is a little unfair. :lol
charlequin
Banned
Kagari said:
He should take his terrible idea and add a waggle wand. Then the PS3 can sell itself as a Wii60 all in one box! :lol
Zombie James
Banned
WrikaWrek said:
Well, in 2007 people were saying that 2008 would be better... and it has (shock). What's to say 2009 won't improve on 2008?
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Actually, I believe the rhetoric was that 2008 would be "The Year of the PS3"... and it has, so long as we discount the competition, I suppose._leech_ said: