DoktorEvil
Banned
Rarely, if ever, has the insanity defense actually held up at trial. He's done.
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Aurora Theater Shooter Trial To Finally Begin
- Thread starter DrForester
- Start date
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Rarely, if ever, has the insanity defense actually held up at trial. He's done.
As if burning anyone alive was the solution...
This. This is what I struggle with. I know he killed innocent people. I can only imagine the turmoil that the families were left to deal with in the aftermath.
But our understanding of mental illness, as a society, is severely lacking.
When you read articles like this: http://io9.com/six-abandoned-asylums-with-genuinely-chilling-backstori-512154481
and realize that things like pre-frontal lobotomies are less than 100 years old, we have a long way to go in regards to understanding mental illness, much less how to properly treat it.
Incidents like Aurora and Sandy Hook are extreme cases, but they raise so many questions about the treatment of mental health in our society that are largely unanswered.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
He was found sitting on the trunk of his car outside the theater in his getup and surrendered to the first cop who approached him.
It'd be very difficult to ascertain whether he actually does have schizophrenia from what little knowledge we have. Although you're right, the behaviour noted there does sound suspect - people do try to feign having a mental illness (from my experience, the best at it are previous mental health professionals) - but something does strike me about that sentence. It sounds almost like the behaviour of someone who is attempting to appear mentally unwell but their experience of it is through fiction. Like I said though, it's not really possible to tell; schizophrenia doesn't really manifest in single forms. It varies quite wildly.
I'll take your word for it. When it comes to circumstances like this, I'm terribly uneducated, as we've not had the death penalty in the UK while I've been alive... It's never really been an issue.
I was on about capital punishment in general. Lethal injection, electrocution, burning, stoning, crucifixion... Whatever the method, if the guy is insane, then doing it just isn't right, in my opinion.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
What? He planned and prepared to commit those murders. An insanity plea would only fly if he wasn't in control of his actions.
la flama blanca
Banned
Any info on what mental illness he suffers from?
block tower
Member
he sure knows how to put on for the camera with those mugshots lol.
I'm always reminded of this clip from a forensic psychiatrist whenever these stories occur.
https://youtu.be/PezlFNTGWv4?t=1m40s
https://youtu.be/PezlFNTGWv4?t=1m40s
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I think they've broke for lunch.
Here's two links. I think they are all streaming the same video feed, and there is no commentary so it doesn't really matter which you watch.
http://www.9news.com/videos/news/local/2014/07/07/5993325/ <- NBC affiliate
http://kdvr.com/2015/04/28/theater-shooting-trial-live-1st-day-of-witness-testimony/ <-Fox Affiliate
Yeah, he booby-trapped his own apartment. I really don't see how he will be able to get out with an insanity plea.
block tower
Member
are people in this thread really trying to say he is crazy? what bullshit. dude knew what he was doing. just cause he did a horrible thing doesnt mean he had to be crazy to do it.
Anyone who booby-traps their own residence seems pretty nutty to me.
ActuallyHulk
Banned
Thank you.
I think people have different definition of what "being crazy" means.
Yeah, but there's 'insane', and then there's mentally not being responsible for your actions, which is a far far higher hurdle to prove.
cutmeamango
Banned
Highly functional psychopaths exist. But the bold is true, at least as far as we are able to assess.
It's just that multiple, unrelated victims is so out of the norm that considering an element of "craziness" is understandable.
Mookie1515
Member
Denver is a madhouse of media right now. And is gonna be for sometime, this trial is expect to last months, if you include sentencing.
RPGCrazied
Member
Well, he did say he was the Joker(even dyed his hair) when he was killing people. Doesn't matter he needs life in prison or death. No longer a member of human society. How can he even be defended? Holy shit.
I H8 Memes
Member
All 3 of these people planned and prepared for their shooting sprees.
All 3 look like perfectly normal people to you. Sometimes there is no justice to be had. But not in America. America always needs its justice no matter what.
Hey look at this guys! Jared Loughner was able to record, edit, and upload to youtube!
Lets burn him alive.
Here he is wearing a garbage bag for clothes and burning an american flag in the desert.
Lets burn him alive.
You know what all 3 really had in common? Guns. All 3 had access to guns. Someone sold Jared Loughner a gun.
All 3 look like perfectly normal people to you. Sometimes there is no justice to be had. But not in America. America always needs its justice no matter what.
Hey look at this guys! Jared Loughner was able to record, edit, and upload to youtube!
Lets burn him alive.
Here he is wearing a garbage bag for clothes and burning an american flag in the desert.
Lets burn him alive.
You know what all 3 really had in common? Guns. All 3 had access to guns. Someone sold Jared Loughner a gun.
Hari Seldon
Member
Yeah this guy is clearly "insane", but not mentally handicapped such that I would want him to escape from punishment. Every mass murderer is likely insane by a strictly clinical definition, but I think only those people that clearly have no capacity to comprehend their world around them should be able to escape justice. E.g. a sever autistic person that randomly clubs someone to death is a lot different than someone who carefully plans a mass murder over a period of days/weeks.
ActuallyHulk
Banned
IMO he's clearly crazy, just not in the "right" way so to speak. Nobody who plots such a horrible event is sane, however his mind was likely well enough to know what he was doing.
AngryNapkin
Banned
It's cheaper to just give them the injection and be done with it. The guy will never ever be aloud to be free for the rest of his life even if he was insane.
In situations where grave damage was done to a large group of people I feel the death penalty is in order.
Illness be damned, it's not like he will be cured in 3 years and be having dinner and a movie with someone. If an animal is rabid we don't simply cure them and give them to a family of 4. We put them down.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
If the act is premeditated and there is an understanding of right and wrong, there is sanity. A mental handicap doesn't warrant an exemption from justice.
I H8 Memes
Member
That's the difference. The ability to perceive reality. Who's to say with Adam Lanza. That kid seemed to have every dissociative disorder someone could have. He posted on the internet that he suspected he had schizophrenia as well. Whereas someone like Seung-Hui Cho did seem to have a grasp of reality. Just incredible rage built up because he was a failure at everything in life mostly due to having a mental illness that made him completely incapable of communicating with people at all. But he definitely had a full grasp on reality. These other cases are far different.
In this case it does. He shot up a crowded movie theater. I don't care if he is insane. He needs to die.
AngryNapkin
Banned
This, if someone is mentally ill buy randomly attack one person they should be helped and put in a safe environment for themselves and others.
In cases where there was planning and tons of people affected regardless of reason (terrorism, insanity, etc.) they should be given death.
I H8 Memes
Member
Holy shit do you really not grasp what these mental illnesses are like in severe cases? If a wall starts fucking talking to you thats only half the problem. The part of the mind that would tell someone that that isnt real does not work for someone with severe schizophrenia. A wall growing a face and talking to them is their reality. They do not have the ability to distinguish between reality and hallucination. Do you understand what I'm saying. I dont mean visually they wouldnt be able to tell the difference. I mean there mind doesnt have the ability to know there should be a difference.
DoktorEvil
Banned
We're not going to kill him just because you want to, bro.
Guilty or innocent, the kid needs to be instituted and studied.
sick to my stomach, I really hope this scumbag gets what he deserves.King Tubby
Member
Premeditation does not mean he was not insane at the time. The defense relies on showing that Holmes' mental state was such that he couldn't tell right from wrong. For example: If you suffer from paranoid delusions that the schoolchildren playing in the park are agents of the devil sent to end the world, planning out how you're going to kill them isn't going to invalidate a claim of insanity. In some cases it can even bolster the case (like if you plan how to counter their fire breath or whatever).
It isn't actually cheaper, and putting him in a psychiatric facility for the criminally insane could actually give insight into preventing future mass murders rather than killing a crazy person and learning nothing.
It isn't actually cheaper, and putting him in a psychiatric facility for the criminally insane could actually give insight into preventing future mass murders rather than killing a crazy person and learning nothing.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Is that what you think the level of mental dysfunction was for those three?
Random Painted HIghway
Member
Is this necessary here? You do realize that every arrest is going to be different. Do you actually know the facts regarding the apprehension in the cases you noted above? It would appear not. It is not exactly a challenge to trot out a list of heinous non whites who were captured alive, or for that matter whites who were killed during apprehension.
Hopefully the jury do care.
la flama blanca
Banned
It could be. My mother was schizophrenic and tried to kill me on occasions, but it was difficult to find clear indications of how crazy was at times.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
It doesn't per se, but it shows conscious intent and commitment to the act. The defense would also have to prove he didn't know right from wrong and wasn't in control of his actions. Don't equate mental illness with insanity.
You think we should be killing mentally insane people? Ok then.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I'll shut up and let the case unfold.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
n/m
did you always have that tag? because wow.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
can't believe barry slotnick is still around
this guys parents must be loaded
this guys parents must be loaded
PandaShake
Member
Sometimes I feel the death penalty is too much of an easy way out for people like him who has inflicted so much suffering. Maybe 30 years in prison followed by the death penalty. That way, he'll spend long years meaninglessly in a prison while he counts the days to his impending death.
AngryNapkin
Banned
The appeals process, 10 yr wait, etc aren't cheaper.
The injection and bringing in 10 people to see him die is fairly cheap. In these cases where guilt is obvious to me it's justifiable to put them to death.
If you want to study insanity there are ample amounts of the mentally ill to study.
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