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[AdventureRacing]

I don't understand the tax. At all. None of it makes any sense.

Firstly - it won't actually have any effect. Basically everyone has said this (as in, all the climate scientists and whatnot), but then just seem to ignore it. Australia is not a big enough emitter that a 5% reduction in our carbon emissions will do a single thing. So the big hope is by us acting, it will compel other countries (mainly the US and China) to act. Anyone who follows US politics knows what an absolute pipe dream that is. The Republicans would practically tear down the White House if Obama proposed a carbon tax right now. It's simply not going to happen until they fix their economy, which will be who knows when.

And China is like an unstoppable freight train who definitely won't do anything that could stunt their own growth.

If we are going to stick with this attitude how can we ever expect anyone else to do anything?

It's hypocritical to expect countries like china and the US to act if we wont.

The whole thing is bizarre. I would have just rather we continued to put big investments into cleaner energy solutions.

This i basically do agree with.

 

[pieatorium]

We're running into a battlefield blindfolded, and it would only be fucking Australia to be one of the first country's to try to implement this, much like it being one of the only western country's to try and implement an internet filter.

Actually quite a few have floated the idea but like us none have implemented anything.

 

[Fredescu]

If we are going to stick with this attitude how can we ever expect anyone else to do anything?

Yeah, that line of argument always struck me as extremely juvenile.

 

[Ydahs]

ARRRRGGGHG! argagrgahrghar!

Is anyone listening to Gillard on Ten? That voice, that condescending tone. Uuugh. Is she speaking to preschoolers? The horror.

It is now on mute and subtitles are on.

 

[Jintor]

She has no presence at all.

 

[Ventron]

I'm not sure that a trend line with so little data would be much use.

We've only had 5 decades of warming in the era where the world really ramped up CO2 output (that is, since 1960). If the decade after breaks that correlation, then either they are both significant, or neither is significant.

If the argument is that, because such a trend line might look flat, and emissions have increased, and therefore emissions are having no effect, what's the deal with the 00 temperatures being almost universally record breakers?

Because the argument is that there is a correlation between man's output of CO2, and world temperature. If the correlation stops, the theory is destroyed by contradiction.

Also, it assumes that there weren't ever temperatures above those levels before records started. Instrumental records began around 1850. I've seen various estimates of temperatures in the last 2000 years and they all differ so wildly it's ridiculous. I haven't found a graph which goes further back, but if there is I would LOVE to know how they managed to measure that.

I'll give you the last ten years have been flat, but downwards? How are you getting that?
There have been troughs and lows through the NASA chart over the last 150 years, but the trend has been consistently up.

I meant the change in trend line, it's downwards because the trend line has gone from upwards to flat.

Yeah, that line of argument always struck me as extremely juvenile.

All of Europe having an ETS hasn't persuaded them, why would we? I can't think of any policy change by the US that was directly inspired by Australia.

 

[legend166]

Yeah, that line of argument always struck me as extremely juvenile.

I like 'pragmatic'.

It's idealism and hubris to think anyone cares what we do. Why hamstring ourselves for no benefit?

 

[Fredescu]

We've had 5 decades of warming in the era where the world really ramped up CO2 output (that is, since 1960). If the decade after breaks that correlation, then either they are both significant, or neither is significant.

Given the greater body of evidence, ten data points in one set aren't enough to break that correlation.

Also, it assumes that there weren't ever temperatures above those levels before records started.

It needn't. "Hottest in the last 100 years" is far more relevant than "hottest since time began".

All of Europe having an ETS hasn't persuaded them, why would we? I can't think of any policy change by the US that was directly inspired by Australia.

I'm not talking about it's practical effect necessarily. Just the playground level logic of "X, Y, Z didn't do <good thing>, why should I?"

 

[AdventureRacing]

All of Europe having an ETS hasn't persuaded them, why would we? I can't think of any policy change by the US that was directly inspired by Australia.

Just to make this clear i'm not just referring to the carbon tax here.

I like 'pragmatic'. It's idealism and hubris to think anyone cares what we do. Why hamstring ourselves for no benefit?

To me this is irrelevant. It's this simple how can we expect places like China and the US to make radical changes in order to reduce carbon emissions if we won't do the same?

Even if they pay no attention to us it's still hypocritical for us to expect them to do something if we won't.

Getting China and the US to reduce their emissions is extremely important and obviously for us to get anywhere that has to happen. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing what we can in the mean time.

 

[Salazar]

I like 'pragmatic'.

It's idealism and hubris to think anyone cares what we do. Why hamstring ourselves for no benefit?

Because it is zer right thing to do.

 

[Gazunta]

If nobody else has cured cancer, then why the hell should I donate to cancer research? It won't do anything.

 

[Salazar]

If nobody else has cured cancer, then why the hell should I?

But there are some people with cancer who deserve to die.

Don't play God, Gazunta.

 

[AdventureRacing]

But there are some people with cancer who deserve to die.

Don't play God, Gazunta.

Many that live deserve death and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment, for even the very wise cannot see all ends.

 

[hirokazu]

ARRRRGGGHG! argagrgahrghar!

Is anyone listening to Gillard on Ten? That voice, that condescending tone. Uuugh. Is she speaking to preschoolers? The horror.

It is now on mute and subtitles are on.

Yeah, Gillard has a horrible voice for public speaking to begin with. -_-"

 

[Salazar]

Many that live deserve death and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment, for even the very wise cannot see all ends.

*Blows smoke ring*

 

[Ventron]

Given the greater body of evidence, ten data points in one set aren't enough to break that correlation.

If the theory is based on only 5 decades of warming, then yes it can break that correlation.

It needn't. "Hottest in the last 100 years" is far more relevant than "hottest since time began".

Why? The climate isn't 100 years old. If there are cases which are completely inconsistent with the theory, then that is a good thing, because in science the only certainty (and indeed, the main way to progress as history shows) is that theories can be rejected by contradiction, they can't be proven.

 

[trinest]

Powderfinger has the greatest Australian album of all time? Yeah, no.

I wouldn't say greatest either, but they should be up there.

When they toured in my town, went backstage- good times.

Wow. If you believe you will be better off overall or that the climate will get better at all from this, you're delusional.
Some crazy delusional kids in Aus GAF.

I watched the Ten late news report on it, and one of the guys pretty much summed up my opinion on it- whats the point if its going to pretty much do anything, and instead just make everything more expensive. Who cares if there are "cuts", because there are still people who miss out- also if they are pretty much using the tax to raise money to subidise people because of the tax- why bother anyway? It seems like a huge loop of bullshit to really accomplish nothing. I agree with Abbot on the one thing which is approach- or least his "selling approach" today is fuck the tax, use our savings and fund research and technology with that.

ARRRRGGGHG! argagrgahrghar!

Is anyone listening to Gillard on Ten? That voice, that condescending tone. Uuugh. Is she speaking to preschoolers? The horror.

It is now on mute and subtitles are on.

I got a huge Anna from V vibe from it.

 

[hirokazu]

If the theory is based on only 5 decades of warming, then yes it can break that correlation.

Gosh, are you doubting the experts? :0

 

[Stackboy]

Had a great weekend of PC gaming at a 300 person LAN party this weekend.

Hasn't been anything of PC lately, that's been great for MP, but TF2, L4D2, Friday Night Combat and my old favourite UT2004 were a bunch of fun.

PC gaming, you are good people.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Had a great weekend of PC gaming at a 300 person LAN party this weekend.

Hasn't been anything of PC lately, that's been great for MP, but TF2, L4D2, Friday Night Combat and my old favourite UT2004 were a bunch of fun.

PC gaming, you are good people.

Stracraft 2! Though i guess that might not work so well for a lan party .

 

[hamchan]

So who is hyped for A Dance With Dragons in 2 days time?!?!

Because I am.

 

[Fredescu]

If the theory is based on only 5 decades of warming, then yes it can break that correlation.

Aside from the fact that there are many datasets that point to the same conclusion, lets not pretend this is a full decade you're talking about. 2000-2005 is an upward trend, with 2004 the only outlier. 2010 is obviously second highest on record. I don't know enough about graphing to know where that would put a trend line across the decade, but it strikes me that you're arguing about four years, three of which are still in the top ten hottes on record, and drawing a 60 year conclusion on that.

Why? The climate isn't 100 years old.

No one is arguing that the climate has been static for ever and ever and this is the only thing to change it. The entire theory isn't predicated on temperature graphs and CO2 levels.

 

[Salazar]

So who is hyped for A Dance With Dragons in 2 days time?!?!

Because I am.

Very hype.

If I preordered with the Amazon one click thing, should I have got an email as usual ?

It just seemed weird to get no notification.

 

[Kerrby]

I hope no one here would write Valve an angry letter (yes you read that right, sending them a letter overseas) because they didn't get 3 games from the 2K pack they already own. Even though it said plain and clear before hand you won't be getting games you already own.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1735128

 

[Salazar]

"do you understand bait and switch ?" killed me.

 

[Shaneus]

I hope no one here would write Valve an angry letter (yes you read that right, sending them a letter overseas) because they didn't get 3 games from the 2K pack they already own. Even though it said plain and clear before hand you won't be getting games you already own.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1735128

Ahaha, how pent up is that poster? Great thread, would read again A+++

 

[hirokazu]

Aside from the fact that there are many datasets that point to the same conclusion, lets not pretend this is a full decade you're talking about. 2000-2005 is an upward trend, with 2004 the only outlier. 2010 is obviously second highest on record. I don't know enough about graphing to know where that would put a trend line across the decade, but it strikes me that you're arguing about four years, three of which are still in the top ten hottes on record, and drawing a 60 year conclusion on that.

No one is arguing that the climate has been static for ever and ever and this is the only thing to change it. The entire theory isn't predicated on temperature graphs and CO2 levels.

Armchair scientists! Reading things on the Internet and licking the words from the very mouth of Lord Monckton himself!

The laborious peer-reviewed research conducted by men and women who have devoted their lives and careers on the topic at hand? Automatically disqualified as inadmissible evidence!

 

[Unwell Cat]

Hello Everyone,

New to this forum but as I'm moving to Perth early next year I was wondering if you would be so helpful to give me some advice please.

Will my UK 360 and 3DS work over in Oz regarding buying local games, are the regions the same as the UK?

Can I cut my UK 3 pin plugs off my electrical equipment and replace them with the Australian 2 pin plugs or will this just result in a minor meltdown?

Also any other help or recommendation that would help me would be great.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Clipper]

Hello Everyone,

New to this forum but as I'm moving to Perth early next year I was wondering if you would be so helpful to give me some advice please.

Will my UK 360 and 3DS work over in Oz regarding buying local games, are the regions the same as the UK?

Can I cut my UK 3 pin plugs off my electrical equipment and replace them with the Australian 2 pin plugs or will this just result in a minor meltdown?

Also any other help or recommendation that would help me would be great.

Many thanks in advance.

3DS will be fine and I'm fairly sure the 360 will be too (except for perhaps store purchases). Australia actually has three pins too, they are just smaller and in a different orientation. Don't go cutting your plugs, though. Get some cheap plug adapters instead. Either universal ones or Aussie ones (which you can buy locally once you get here).

And in terms of other help, when you get here, make sure you're careful to look out for drop bears when walking under tree branches near bushland.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

And in terms of other help, when you get here, make sure you're careful to look out for drop bears when walking under tree branches near bushland.

Bit unsporting to mention drop bears but not to warn them about hoop snakes.

 

[kase23]

And in terms of other help, when you get here, make sure you're careful to look out for drop bears when walking under tree branches near bushland.

Drops bears only kill stupid tourists who make the mistake of looking straight up and making eye contact while walking through bushland, country kids learn pretty early on that you at the very most only look up at a 45 degree angle to scout the higher tree tops so that incase if a dropbear does fall and attack you , you wont (and this is the most extreme scenario) break your neck.

 

[hamchan]

Once on a school camping trip my friends and I nearly got dropped on by a drop bear. It was fucking terrifying I tell you.

 

[evlcookie]

Dawn of war retribution on sale again, I guess some more will be picking that up for last stand?

I wish for once it wasn't a best of sale on the last day, throw us some curve balls for once valve.

 

[Darklord]

Dawn of war retribution on sale again, I guess some more will be picking that up for last stand?

I wish for once it wasn't a best of sale on the last day, throw us some curve balls for once valve.

Isn't The last stand a stand alone game now too?

Edit:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/56438/?snr=1_4_4__13

$6.69. Buy that shit!

 

[Shaneus]

I hope no one here would write Valve an angry letter (yes you read that right, sending them a letter overseas) because they didn't get 3 games from the 2K pack they already own. Even though it said plain and clear before hand you won't be getting games you already own.

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1735128

"Thread has been deleted. Reason: Ask a lawyer."

 

[evlcookie]

Isn't The last stand a stand alone game now too?

Edit:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/56438/?snr=1_4_4__13

$6.69. Buy that shit!

It is too!

I will wait until fred or ridonk tells me which version i need after fred tried to sell us all on the game in steam chat after a lengthy play session.

 

[Omikron]

looks like retribution is available on the Amazon store cookie for 7.50... unsure if this is region locked. but I can certainly view on my phone. will check it out at work.

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004NBZBM4/ref=aw_d_var_2nd_videogames_txt?qid=1310330449&vs=1&sr=8-1

 

[ClivePwned]

Red Faction Armageddon command and recon edition (whatever the hell that is) is something like $27 shipped on Zavvi today on all systems if anyone's interested

also- just to confirm- if I buy xbox live subs from play-asia- they will work on an AU XBL account, won't they?

also Price Check on aisle 13- 3DS for $199 at DJ's apparently

http://www2.davidjones.com.au/shop-online/product-details.jsp?category=2770324&productID=105916

 

[Shaneus]

looks like retribution is available on the Amazon store cookie for 7.50... unsure if this is region locked. but I can certainly view on my phone. will check it out at work.

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004NBZBM4/ref=aw_d_var_2nd_videogames_txt?qid=1310330449&vs=1&sr=8-1

It's not the viewing where the problem lies, it's putting the key in Steam. I had problems with Mafia 2 that I got around with a VPN client, but I don't want to have to muck around with that again.

 

[Omikron]

It's not the viewing where the problem lies, it's putting the key in Steam. I had problems with Mafia 2 that I got around with a VPN client, but I don't want to have to muck around with that again.

Interesting, I had no issues with CivV (admittedly it was a boxed US version however). Cheers for the info either way

 

[Kritz]

Hrm, thinking of buying a netbook for uni. Something small, good battery life. Will probably chuck ubuntu or something on it. Not sure what my price range will be. Probably however much I get back in tax, I suppose ( probably not getting much back ).

Any suggestions for something between $400-800?

Already have a laptop, but 17" gaming laptops are a bit much to carry around.

 

[Gazunta]

I adore the weight and speed of my HP Mini but its trackpad can drive you to drink. The wife has a Toshiba Netbook that has served her very well but the speakers are woefully underpowered. Every key on her netbook keyboard is separate which is a bit weird but it feels nice in practice.

As long as you know you won't be playing games on it and can handle the small resolution, $600 will get you a good netbook. Just make sure you can expand the RAM (no matter what it comes with, it won't be enough) and that you can hold a display model with the battery attached since that's where most of the weight will be.

 

[Shaneus]

Steam sale damage:

Damage for the sale:
4th: Defense Grid + DLC, Beat Hazard Ultra DLC
$3.45

6th: Wings of Prey: Stalker: CoP, King Arthur Collection, AI War
$17.23

7th: King's Bounty Collection
$6.99

8th: Red Alert 3, C&C3.
$12

10th: Stubbs, Time Gentlemen/Ben & Dan pack
$3.73

Also grabbed Civ 5 for myself and another GAFfer that I traded for Everyday Shooter and Transformers
$22

Total: ~$63AU. Pretty happy with that!

It's more than I thought I'd paid, but considering how easy it could've been to spend more I'm glad with how much it set me back. Some interesting stuff that should keep me PC gaming for a while, too (and no new exxy games).

 

[legend166]

Just what television needs: http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2011/07/could-ten-launch-a-brekkie-tv-show.html

 

[Shaneus]

Can someone buy this for me and send it to my place? Cheers.

 

[Kerrby]

Just what television needs: http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2011/07/could-ten-launch-a-brekkie-tv-show.html

Why doesn't 10 just make it that ABC News 24 channel, it seems to be the way they're going :/

How the mighty have fallen.

 

[Salazar]

Just what television needs: http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2011/07/could-ten-launch-a-brekkie-tv-show.html

I would be amused if they cut all those staff and axed those shows only to launch a fucking breakfast show.

Oh god. Lachlan you crazy guy.

 

[Omikron]

Some positive spin on the Carbon Tax.

* A $1.2 billion Clean Technology Program to improve energy efficiency in manufacturing and to support research and development.
* Australia's most polluting electricty generators will be closed and replaced with gas-fired units by 2020.
* A $10 billion Clean Energy Finance Corporation to fund new clean energy technology.
* An Australian Renewable Energy Agency to manage a $10 billion Clean Energy Finance Corporation to fund new clean energy technology.
* An Australian Renewable Energy Agency to manage a $3.2 billion clean energy budget.
* A target of 20 per cent renewable energy by 2020..


But I am sure its a still a socialist wealth re-distribution tax.

 

[evlcookie]

It's interesting to see how many people are saying they will vote for Abie after the carbon tax was announced, I wonder how many are true swing voters.

 

[legend166]

That stuff sounds fine to me, Omi.

I just hope the renewable energy they are going for is cost efficient.