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[Neverender]

FUCK I'm stuck at work alone and can't leave... Really need to pee.

 

[Shaneus]

FUCK I'm stuck at work alone and can't leave... Really need to pee.

 

[Choc]

so i discovered a problem with the carbon tax


The money paid to families to cater for it comes from the tax itself as the money rolls in

Lets say its 4 billion per year, and the tax brings in 10 billion, so 6 billion difference right now

Over time the companies improve their emissions and only bring in 3 billion of tax whereas the cost is 4 billion to the government

So a 1 billion hole in the budget.

As well as this

Company X emits tons of carbon and pays the tax. Increases its price to consumers because of the tax by 10%

Company X fixes its emissions and no longer pays the tax.

Will they then reduce the price of their product because they are not paying the tax anymore

fuck no.

 

[MrSerrels]

so i discovered a problem with the carbon tax


The money paid to families to cater for it comes from the tax itself as the money rolls in

Lets say its 4 billion per year, and the tax brings in 10 billion, so 6 billion difference right now

Over time the companies improve their emissions and only bring in 3 billion of tax whereas the cost is 4 billion to the government

So a 1 billion hole in the budget.

As well as this

Company X emits tons of carbon and pays the tax. Increases its price to consumers because of the tax by 10%

Company X fixes its emissions and no longer pays the tax.

Will they then reduce the price of their product because they are not paying the tax anymore

fuck no.

No-one likes to make less money. That's what every single argument on this issue comes down to. No-one wants to pay for shit.

 

[Fredescu]

Will they then reduce the price of their product because they are not paying the tax anymore

fuck no.

Price reduction should be a significant competitive advantage. It could only be due to poor competition in the sector that they wouldn't reduce the price.

 

[shanshan310]

Jobs? A few jobs will be lost but employment growth will vastly outweigh this. There will be 1.6 million more people in the workforce by 2020. That's mental.

Industry is being over-compensated. Coal will get 1.3 billion. Steel will get 300 million. OneSteel came out yesterday and said they were pleased with the details.

Cost of living? It has been and will continue to rise. The carbon tax will have a small effect on this. The CPI will go up by 0.7% in the first year.

No, I don't mind paying extra if it means we are saving the environment. I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm concerned about how effective this tax will be on a global scale. Yes, the UK and many countries in Europe are introducing some form of carbon tax of ETS, but if you look at our biggest trading partners and rivals you get a very different picture. If we have a carbon tax and our rivals don't, our goods become more expensive and thus less desirable. Yes our emissions may go down, but if other countries' emissions are going up we are essentially just moving the carbon output offshore.

 

[Card Boy]

Simple solution to the Carbon tax, make GST 11 to 15%

 

[giri]

so i discovered a problem with the carbon tax


The money paid to families to cater for it comes from the tax itself as the money rolls in

Lets say its 4 billion per year, and the tax brings in 10 billion, so 6 billion difference right now

Over time the companies improve their emissions and only bring in 3 billion of tax whereas the cost is 4 billion to the government

So a 1 billion hole in the budget.

As well as this

Company X emits tons of carbon and pays the tax. Increases its price to consumers because of the tax by 10%

Company X fixes its emissions and no longer pays the tax.

Will they then reduce the price of their product because they are not paying the tax anymore

fuck no.

If i'm still single, i fully expect they'll raise the tax and expect me to pay more for people to pump out kids but have no responsibility to the shit they whinge about.

Simple solution to the Carbon tax, make GST 11 to 15%

I (and many others) have been saying for a long time. Make the GST 20%, and cut ALL other taxes. states get 10% straight up.

OH, here's the second best part about the carbon tax, the whole new government deperatment they're going to establish to look after it. Great. More public servants.

 

[Rimfya]

I don't understand it either. Do I want more taxes that generate money to subsidise the effects of the tax? Perhaps taxes on tax? Or taxes on taxes on tax.

 

[Card Boy]

I (and many others) have been saying for a long time. Make the GST 20%, and cut ALL other taxes. states get 10% straight up.

I got the idea from The Spoonman, anyone remember that guy on Triple M acouple years back?

Land tax is the worst for rental properties that shit needs to die in a fire.

 

[HolyCheck]

going back a page, how about supplying graphs showing the earths temperature PAST 1880, let's go back 2000 years please. or 40,000.

I'd like to see how little the recent jump matters in the grand scheme of things

 

[Choc]

NZ cut their income tax rates significantly and made the GST rate 15%

So basically the GST acts as designed, a consumption tax. You are 'punished' for buying something.

In Australia, the GST does not act as designed, at all. Because our income tax rates are so high in comparison to for example NZ

highest tax rate in NZ is 35.04%

 

[Fredescu]

Increasing the GST slugs the poor hardest.

Edit: Ok, that didn't make sense.

 

[user_nat]

What's a good site for building a PC? As in selecting all the parts and preferable telling me if they work together.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Won't somebody please think of the upper-middle white males.

 

[roosters93]

Won't somebody please think of the upper-middle white males.

They are.

 

[Ventron]

Won't somebody please think of the upper-middle white males.

I see this so much that I have to get this off my chest. Why does the race of someone have to be mentioned when their class is also mentioned? And why is it done in such a patronising way? I don't understand this racism.

 

[Choc]

FWIW

NZ has a carbon tax as well

$12 a ton

 

[roosters93]

FWIW

NZ has a carbon tax as well

$12 a ton

So that's a more ambitious price than ours right?
Considering their share of global emissions is ~0.2%. (Ours is 1.47%)
Also their CO2 emissions per capita was 7.8 tonnes in 2007. (Ours was 17.9)

I'm sure there's a flaw in my logic somewhere.

edit: For full disclosure: 12.50 NZD = 9.74049 AUD

 

[Salazar]

I see this so much that I have to get this off my chest. Why does the race of someone have to be mentioned when their class is also mentioned? And why is it done in such a patronising way? I don't understand this racism.

It's just an expression, and the intent is ironic in any case.

 

[giri]

Increasing the GST slugs the poor hardest.

Edit: Ok, that didn't make sense.

Not if their income tax goes from 20% to nothing.

Won't somebody please think of the upper-middle white males.

i don't know if i'm upper middle. But why shouldn't they? This is meant to be a society, and it seems that the minority are getting dictated to by the majority, but the majority don't want to pay for anything. I'm not exactly swimming in money. I'm single income, any pay rise i get 50% of it dissapears instantly in income tax. i'm not out there every weekend blowing thousands on coke and hookers.

At some point, i say fuck you, and leave. Europe (Germany/Austria) is looking more and more enticing every new tax.

So that's a more ambitious price than ours right?
Considering their share of global emissions is ~0.2%. (Ours is 1.47%)
Also their CO2 emissions per capita was 7.8 tonnes in 2007. (Ours was 17.9)

I'm sure there's a flaw in my logic somewhere.

MUCH smaller country where cross - country transport involves a 2hour drive side to side, or something 14 hours end to end. Compared with aus which is 20hours + cross country or something like that.

 

[legend166]

I see this so much that I have to get this off my chest. Why does the race of someone have to be mentioned when their class is also mentioned? And why is it done in such a patronising way? I don't understand this racism.

It makes much more sense when used in America, where they actually have significant income disparity between races.

That is not to say Australia has none, but the size of our minorities are miniscule compared to America.

 

[r1chard]

I see this so much that I have to get this off my chest. Why does the race of someone have to be mentioned when their class is also mentioned? And why is it done in such a patronising way? I don't understand this racism.

Because if there's one group in society that's overwhelmingly privileged, and blind to that privilege, it's white males. Yes, I am one. Try this checklist and see how many you can tick off. A lot of the items can substitute sex for race / color.

Anyone who says that race is a bigger deal in American than here is not paying attention.


Also, won't someone think of the Herald Sun readers? http://twitpic.com/5oeffd

 

[Omikron]

Summary of the last few pages:

People want action on climate change, until they realise they may get slugged a little bit in the hip pocket.

 

[shanshan310]

I see this so much that I have to get this off my chest. Why does the race of someone have to be mentioned when their class is also mentioned? And why is it done in such a patronising way? I don't understand this racism.

Yeah, I don't get it. Especially in Aus where there isn't really a correlation between race and money. The "male" bit is kinda silly too.

 

[Fredescu]

Not if their income tax goes from 20% to nothing.

Which it won't, because an extra 10% on consumption is not enough to compensate for removing 15% from income.

Consumption taxes are inherently regressive. The reason we have progressive taxes is because money diminishes in utility the more you have. An extra dollar to a poorer person means a lot more to an extra dollar to a richer person. So no, don't raise the GST. Raise the top tax bracket.

 

[r1chard]

Yeah, I don't get it. ... The "male" bit is kinda silly too.

No, it's really not.

“The first big privilege which whites, males, people in upper economic classes, the able bodied, the straight (I think one or two of those will cover most of us) can work to alleviate is the privilege to be oblivious to privilege.”

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

 

[Salazar]

Also, won't someone think of the Herald Sun readers? http://twitpic.com/5oeffd

Miserable rag. It gives me so much pleasure to see Rupert Murdoch suffer.

 

[shanshan310]

No, it's really not.

“The first big privilege which whites, males, people in upper economic classes, the able bodied, the straight (I think one or two of those will cover most of us) can work to alleviate is the privilege to be oblivious to privilege.”

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

Well, I can tell you I honestly did not feel any less privileged than my male counterparts until I read that list =/

EDIT: The more I read the more depressed I get :'( Man, its true.

 

[giri]

Which it won't, because an extra 10% on consumption is not enough to compensate for removing 15% from income.

Consumption taxes are inherently regressive. The reason we have progressive taxes is because money diminishes in utility the more you have. An extra dollar to a poorer person means a lot more to an extra dollar to a richer person. So no, don't raise the GST. Raise the top tax bracket.

This argument seems incredibly flawed to me.

Randomly, lets say a $50,000 salary had an income tax of 15%.

50,000 *.15 = 7500 =income tax. This leaves that person with $42,500 cash in hand. If they spent all of that, the max GST tehy would pay is
$42,500 * .1 = 4250

Total tax: $11,750

If GST was raised to 20%

50,000 * .2 = 10,000 = total tax.

If they were paying under 10% Tax, yes, it would make them worse off.

But, please, keep raising and generating more new taxes on those who pay the most already, in one of the most heavily taxed nations in the world. See how long people stick around and put up with it. We already face quite a talent exodus at a certain level in this country because total income in hand is bigger in other countries. Just go ahead and add to the problem.

 

[roosters93]

No, I don't mind paying extra if it means we are saving the environment. I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm concerned about how effective this tax will be on a global scale. Yes, the UK and many countries in Europe are introducing some form of carbon tax of ETS, but if you look at our biggest trading partners and rivals you get a very different picture. If we have a carbon tax and our rivals don't, our goods become more expensive and thus less desirable. Yes our emissions may go down, but if other countries' emissions are going up we are essentially just moving the carbon output offshore.

Oh ok. Well you're entirely correct. While the carbon tax and ETS will lead to Australia having a greener economy and a lesser share of global carbon emissions, these emissions will simply belong to someone else.

I'm not sure about your point about our exports being more expensive. Our trade-affected industries will be getting generous compensation. But I don't know much about that really.

In my opinion, global climate change mitigation is inevitable and it's just a matter of when. Considering we have one of the highest amounts of CO2 emission per capita and one of the most stable Western economies (or at least that's what I kept getting told by politicians) I think now is a good time to move. Sure, the US and India and China don't have an ETS, but China is curtailing its emissions and despite the cynicism of others, I think Australia does have a (small) degree of influence in the international policy decisions of other first-world countries.

MUCH smaller country where cross - country transport involves a 2hour drive side to side, or something 14 hours end to end. Compared with aus which is 20hours + cross country or something like that.

I don't really get your point. That goes toward explaining why they emit less carbon than us, but I don't see how it explains their carbon price is relatively higher than ours. Money lost during transport?

 

[Madrical]

What's a good site for building a PC? As in selecting all the parts and preferable telling me if they work together.

Dunno if this has been answered, but definitely whirlpool. I used their guide to build my PC, swapping a couple of pieces out and cheaper/more expensive ones in, and then posted it on their forums asking for an opinion. Or you can just post your build in the I need a new PC! thread here on GAF, they seem to be pretty happy to help, just make sure you follow the rules in the OP.

 

[roosters93]

Miserable rag. It gives me so much pleasure to see Rupert Murdoch suffer.

The whole NOTW saga has been interesting and actually shocked me quite a bit. I'm glad our press hasn't fallen quite so far yet. It's only a matter of time!

 

[Choc]

Summary of the last few pages:

People want action on climate change, until they realise they may get slugged a little bit in the hip pocket.

Omi i am still undecided about the tax.

i just realised that the compo bit is gonna get ugyl

 

[giri]

Miserable rag. It gives me so much pleasure to see Rupert Murdoch suffer.

Actually, he hasn't suffered one bit.

In fact, he saves him self a bunch of money, and quite possibly gains substantially from it.

The SUN is now just going to publish a sunday edition, which he already owns, saving him self a ton of money. Obiously The SUN's costs are going to go up, but not by as much as an entire seperate companies worth of everything.

He gains a ton of credibility for being morally responsible enough, that it could push the bskyb deal through and he get the largest private television network in the UK.

It's one of the best moves he could have hoped for really.

 

[r1chard]

Dunno if this has been answered, but definitely whirlpool. I used their guide to build my PC, swapping a couple of pieces out and cheaper/more expensive ones in, and then posted it on their forums asking for an opinion. Or you can just post your build in the I need a new PC! thread here on GAF, they seem to be pretty happy to help, just make sure you follow the rules in the OP.

The whirlpool guide rocks, as does the forum with people to help.

I'm holding off any sort of upgrade until closer to Skyrim Time, then I'll see what my options are.

Does anyone know whether nvidia or AMD have imminent releases? I've currently got a 5770 which I'll probably want to upgrade before running Skyrim in All Its Glory

 

[Fredescu]

This argument seems incredibly flawed to me.

Randomly, lets say a $50,000 salary had an income tax of 15%.

50,000 *.15 = 7500 =income tax. This leaves that person with $42,500 cash in hand. If they spent all of that, the max GST tehy would pay is
$42,500 * .1 = 4250

Total tax: $11,750

If GST was raised to 20%

50,000 * .2 = 10,000 = total tax.

If they were paying under 10% Tax, yes, it would make them worse off.

I'm talking about compensating the government. You made my point. They get far less tax by simply replacing the 15% tax threshold with a 20% GST, and the poor pay a higher percentage of it. $1750 per person on average would leave a huge tax revenue gap. I was under the impression that were thinking you were making a revenue neutral suggestion. If you're actually proposing a massive tax cut, thats ok I guess. Too bad about that deficit though.

i just realised that the compo bit is gonna get ugyl

Hell yeah it will: http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/07/11/steel-industry-nabs-60000-of-taxpayer-money-per-job/

 

[r1chard]

He gains a ton of credibility for being morally responsible enough, that it could push the bskyb deal through and he get the largest private television network in the UK.

I'm pretty sure the UK regulators have seen through the sham, even if our media can't.

 

[Salazar]

He gains a ton of credibility for being morally responsible enough, that it could push the bskyb deal through and he get the largest private television network in the UK.

lol no.

 

[giri]

I'm talking about compensating the government. You made my point. They get far less tax by simply replacing the 15% tax threshold with a 20% GST, and the poor pay a higher percentage of it. $1750 per person on average would leave a huge tax revenue gap. I was under the impression that were thinking you were making a revenue neutral suggestion. If you're actually proposing a massive tax cut, thats ok I guess. Too bad about that deficit though.


Hell yeah it will: http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/07/11/steel-industry-nabs-60000-of-taxpayer-money-per-job/

I still believe in general, in a balanced budget, even with a 20% GST (or 22.5%). I in general, think too many governments have bought office, and we are left with legacy programs that aren't as benefecial as anyone thought they would be.

It also would cost a lot of public servants their jobs with a much simpler tax system.

lol no.

Either way, he's already benefitted. If you don't want to believe that, thats fine, i agree with you. But it could put it over the top.

 

[Fredescu]

I in general, think too many governments have bought office, and we are left with legacy programs that aren't as benefecial as anyone thought they would be.

It also would cost a lot of public servants their jobs with a much simpler tax system.

I definitely agree with that. Scrapping the tax act and replacing it with something simple would generally increase real productivity too, in areas outside of paper shuffling. It's just that "something" should not be a regressive tax.

 

[Gazunta]

About a billion years late to the party but this has been my formula to get through the day:

Load YouTube, sign in
Find a random 90's-era Australian band, hit play.
Go through the 'related videos' list, and click on the plus sign that appears above the video thumbnail. Do that about twice per video that is playing.
Enjoy a day filled with great music I haven't heard in ages. Screamfeeder. Pollyanna. The Clouds. Fini Scad. Sidewinder. Etc etc.

Oh yeah tax blah blah FUD blah blah.

 

[jambo]

I see this so much that I have to get this off my chest. Why does the race of someone have to be mentioned when their class is also mentioned? And why is it done in such a patronising way? I don't understand this racism.

How the hell is it racism?

PC Beige Brigade much?

 

[roosters93]

That male privilege shit was depressing.

 

[giri]

That male privilege shit was depressing.

That male privlige list read like a whole big bag of female whine.

 

[legend166]

My newest justification for spending money on Steam:

If, at some stage in the future I'm unfortunate enough to become unemployed, I won't need to spend my savings on video games, because I will have amassed a ridiculously large collection already.

Also, just some warning: if I get home and still can't buy these games sitting in my cart, I may need one of you to gift them to me and then I'll PayPal you. Please.

 

[Omikron]

Also, won't someone think of the Herald Sun readers? http://twitpic.com/5oeffd

lol.... I just emailed that to a guy I know who runs a Herald Sun Reader twitter before reading who posted that link.... it was him. Fail.

 

[roosters93]

That male privlige list read like a whole big bag of female whine.

it's written by a dude -_-

 

[jambo]

I could log on to your account and buy them.

It's not like I need to steal Steam games.

 

[Fredescu]

Enjoy a day filled with great music I haven't heard in ages. Screamfeeder. Pollyanna. The Clouds. Fini Scad. Sidewinder. Etc etc.

Fine music, all. I loved Sidewinder's Atlantis, but I've tried to listen to it recently and it doesn't really hold up in the way I hoped it would. Good nostaligia though, I saw them a whole bunch of times.