Support NeoGAF

[legend166]

E3 prediction: There will be no PS5.


It fits into the budget category, but obviously not the new IP.


Ask the employees of these studios what survival feels like:


3D Realms - 2009
7 Studios (Activision) - 2011
ACES Studio (Microsoft) - 2009
Action Forms - 2009
Ascaron - 2009
Atomic Elbow - 2008
Backbone Vancouver
Beam Software/Melbourne House - 2010
BigBig (Sony) - 2012
Bizarre Creations (Activision) - 2010/2011
Black Rock (Disney) - 2011
Blue Fang Games - 2011
Blue Tongue (THQ) - 2011
BottleRocket - 2009
Brash Entertainment - 2008
Budcat (Activision) - 2010
Carbonated Games - 2008
Castaway Entertainment - 2008
Cheyenne Mountain - 2010
Cing - 2010
Clover Studios (Capcom) - 2006
Codemasters Guildford - 2011
Cohort Studios - 2011
Concrete Games - 2008
Deep Silver Vienna - 2010
DICE Canada - 2006
Digital Anvil - 2006
EA Chicago - 2007
EA Bright Light - 2011/2012
EA Japan - 2007
Eidos Manchester - 2009
Eidos Hungary - 2010
Empire Interactive - 2009
Ensemble Studios (Microsoft) - 2008
Factor 5 - 2009
FASA (Microsoft) - 2007
Fizz Factor - 2009
Flagship Studios - 2008
Flight Plan - 2010
Frozen North Productions
FuzzyEyes - 2009
Gaia
Gamelab - 2009
Game Republic - 2011
GRIN - 2009
Groove Games - 2010
Helixe (THQ) - 2008
Hudson Entertainment - 2011
Humannature Studio (Nexon Vancouver) - 2009
Ignition London - 2010
Ignition Florida - 2010
Incognito Entertainment (Sony) - 2009
Indie Built (Take-Two) - 2006
Iron Lore - 2008
Juice Games (THQ) - 2011
Kaos Studios (THQ) - 2011
Killaware - 2011
Killspace Entertainment - 2011
KMM Brisbane - 2011
Krome Studios (might still be operating on skeleton crew) - 2010
Kuju Manila - 2009
Kuju Chemistry - 2009
Kush Games - 2008
Locomotive Games (THQ) - 2010
Loose Cannon Studios - 2010
Luxoflux - 2010
Mass Media (THQ) - 2008
Monte Cristo - 2010
Monumental Games - 2012
Midway Austin - 2009
Midway Newcastle - 2009
MTV Games - 2011
Multiverse - 2012
NetDevil - 2011
Ninja Studio - 2009
Nihon Telenet - 2007
Outerlight - 2010
PAM Development (Take-Two) - 2008
Pandemic Australia (EA) - 2009
Pandemic LA (EA) - 2009
Paradigm Entertainment - 2008
Pi Studios - 2011
Pivotal Games (Take-Two) - 2008
Propaganda Games (Disney) - 2011
Pseudo Interactive - 2008
Rainbow Studios (THQ) - 2011
Razorworks - 2009
Realtime Worlds - 2010
Rebellion Derby - 2010
Red Octane - 2010
Redtribe - 2008
Rockstar Vienna - 2006
Sandblast Games (THQ) - 2008
SEGA San Francisco - 2010
Sensory Sweep Studios - 2010
Seta - 2008
Shaba Games (Activision) - 2009
SideCar Studios - 2007
Sierra Online - 2008
Snapdragon Games - 2009
SOE Denver - 2011
SOE Seattle - 2011
SOE Tuscon - 2011
Stormfront Studios - 2008
Straylight Studios - 2009
Team Bondi - 2011
The Code Monkeys - 2011
Titan Studios - 2009
THQ Studio Australia - 2009
THQ Digital Warrington - 2009
Transmission Games/IR Gurus - 2009
Ubisoft Brazil - 2010
Underground Development/Z-Axis (Activision) - 2010
Universomo (THQ) - 2009
Venom Games (Take Two) - 2008
Vicarious Visions California - 2007
Visceral Australia (EA) - 2011
Wolfpack Studios - 2006
Yuke’s Company Of America - 2010
Zoe Mode London - 2009
Zoonami - 2011

Artech Studios - 2011
Dark Energy Digital - 2012
Hudson Soft - 2012
Reakktor Media - 2012
Ubisoft Vancouver - 2012

Don't forget 38 Studios!


Also, it's not just a thing of 'our big budget game flopped, now we're going out of business.' It's also the fact that publishers are pretty much only willing to make big budget games. And by their very nature, there aren't going to be as many big budget games as mid/low budget. So all of a sudden, the amount of work out there dries up massively, and all those studios get shut down because they've got nothing to do.

I think that's been the bigger impact rather than actual flops. Although those have been damaging too.

 

[Fredescu]

I think the publishers stopped making those low budget retail games because they stopped selling enough to be profitable. There's no point anyone paying $50 or even $30 for retail shovelware now, when they can get it for $1 on iOS. The market that is susceptible to buying shovelware doesn't do it on console anymore.

 

[senahorse]

360 Gamers, can profiles roam yet? Other than using a memory card from one xbox to the other, or having to recover the GT on each 360 when you want to use it?

 

[Choc]

lol this is awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbgShiaal6E

 

[jambo]

360 Gamers, can profiles roam yet? Other than using a memory card from one xbox to the other, or having to recover the GT on each 360 when you want to use it?

You can sign in with any LIVE account on any 360.

 

[markot]

lol this is awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbgShiaal6E

hehe that was great

 

[Choc]

If it can play XBLA games without forcing me to buy an Xbox, I'm totally there.

given XNA

i wouldn't doubt it

lots of XBLA games are headed to Windows Phone 7 apparently

 

[senahorse]

You can sign in with any LIVE account on any 360.

Yes but the last time I did it, it was through the use of "recover gamertag" which was an exhaustive laborious process.

edit: Well it seems they have fixed that issue , I updated my dusty old console and it now has a "download profile" option which I believe (naively so) will allow me to use the profiles on both consoles

 

[Choc]

i think any studio goign to do an MMO as its first game is a bit silly really

its massive massive risk

 

[Stackboy]

Sup Ausgaf.

Campbell Newman has cost me my govt job.

 

[VOOK]

Can't wait to play Trials Evolution on the precision that a touch screen brings.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Sup Ausgaf.

Campbell Newman has cost me my govt job.

That sucks. Water grid?

 

[shanshan310]

In other news, what is going on in this world...



Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world/naked-...ot/story-e6frfkyi-1226369059626#ixzz1w8PnyUz4

D: zombies!!

 

[legend166]

I think the publishers stopped making those low budget retail games because they stopped selling enough to be profitable. There's no point anyone paying $50 or even $30 for retail shovelware now, when they can get it for $1 on iOS. The market that is susceptible to buying shovelware doesn't do it on console anymore.

No doubt. And that would be the cause of quite a few of those closures. But there was also a market between shovelware and AAA budget games which is now seemingly completely ignored.

Now I don't know why that market no longer exists, but I think the arms race between publishers/MS/Sony is a pretty big part of it. I think they had a chance to cultivate it on the Wii but instead decided to walk into the middle of the road and take a nice big dump.

 

[Yagharek]

It is somewhat concerning that a small handful of mega publishers hold the rights to the majority of IPs, bad things can happen (imo), see Syndicate and X-Com.

Its almost opportune that low cost high exposure games on mobiles and PC are emerging as a serious avenue for distribution. OK, so what if the big IPs are held by the main 4/5 publishers.
Before Ocean (the developer) came along, pretty much all games were original IPs.

It happened before, it can happen again. iOS/Android stores are essentially the new iteration of spectrum vs c64 days.

If it can play XBLA games without forcing me to buy an Xbox, I'm totally there.

Just dont get the HTC model, or it will be 2005 RRODs all over again.

So, hey, have you guys just checked out this hot new thing -- reading.

One of the best things I did was go back and read The Iliad. And Foucault's Pendulum, even though I have nfi what it was about.

Don't forget 38 Studios!


Also, it's not just a thing of 'our big budget game flopped, now we're going out of business.' It's also the fact that publishers are pretty much only willing to make big budget games. And by their very nature, there aren't going to be as many big budget games as mid/low budget. So all of a sudden, the amount of work out there dries up massively, and all those studios get shut down because they've got nothing to do.

I think that's been the bigger impact rather than actual flops. Although those have been damaging too.

Nail on the head yet again. If you ever need a job, just apply to do whatever Pachter does and maybe whomever hired him will see what real insight is.

Sup Ausgaf.

Campbell Newman has cost me my govt job.

Dont blame Salazar. But best of luck finding a new one soonly.

 

[Fredescu]

But there was also a market between shovelware and AAA budget games which is now seemingly completely ignored.

True. THQ tried with Metro, but in the end that was just getting cheap labour to make a pretty looking game. There's a fair bit of that middle ground stuff on PC where it's cheaper to develop and publish. Taking risks at retail probably isn't the best idea for anyone in any industry at this point.

 

[Yagharek]

Can't wait to play Trials Evolution on the precision that a touch screen brings.

Its bad enough on xbox. I really dont like the level design in the demo. Too hard for me, like super meat boy. I think you need to be a savant to beat those games now.

 

[jambo]

Yes but the last time I did it, it was through the use of "recover gamertag" which was an exhaustive laborious process.

edit: Well it seems they have fixed that issue , I updated my dusty old console and it now has a "download profile" option which I believe (naively so) will allow me to use the profiles on both consoles

I literally just signed in to my profile on my gf's 360 and it just grabbed it all and I was set in about 5-10 minutes.

 

[Fredescu]

I literally just signed in to my profile on my gf's 360 and it just grabbed it all and I was set in about 5-10 minutes.

You used to have to go through that 10min process every time you switched consoles. Not sure if that's changed.

 

[Dead Man]

Don't forget 38 Studios!


Also, it's not just a thing of 'our big budget game flopped, now we're going out of business.' It's also the fact that publishers are pretty much only willing to make big budget games. And by their very nature, there aren't going to be as many big budget games as mid/low budget. So all of a sudden, the amount of work out there dries up massively, and all those studios get shut down because they've got nothing to do.

I think that's been the bigger impact rather than actual flops. Although those have been damaging too.

Yeah, very good point. Most of the mainstream pubs seem to be chasing COD money, and ignoring the middle ground.

 

[Yagharek]

Pro tip: go to the shop and buy new carton of milk before eating last nights hot curry dish for lunch.

 

[markot]

Hm.

Hmmmm.

Anyone know if there is a ricky gervais podcast that goes along with the military hbo episode >.<?

 

[reptilescorpio]

Kinda doubt that to be honest. The contracts are well defined enough for them not to have cost blowouts, and if they care enough about asset reuse they'll define ownership of that in the contract.

I knew I should have put that last sentence in a new paragraph. I meant that keeping their development in house means they can monitor the costs properly, obviously contracts are contracts and as such have terms about how much money a publisher will give a developer to make a game.

The cost blowout is more relative to costs external to development; stuff like distribution and marketing that can make or break the profit scenario of a project.

EA Partners seems to be working well for EA so far, in comparison to some of their published efforts in the past for external studios.

 

[Yagharek]

EA Partners seems to be working well for EA so far, in comparison to some of their published efforts in the past for external studios.

It also has a habit of killing the developers who sign to it, from Oddworld Inhabitants through to 38 Studios.

 

[markot]

and making awful shit like bullerstorm

 

[reptilescorpio]

Did well for EA though! They get a hunk of money and the developers take on the risk. Win Win! (for EA)

I think the publishers stopped making those low budget retail games because they stopped selling enough to be profitable. There's no point anyone paying $50 or even $30 for retail shovelware now, when they can get it for $1 on iOS. The market that is susceptible to buying shovelware doesn't do it on console anymore.

The midrange market did also get more competitive with some genres picking up people out of that market so it wasn't easy pickings any more. Moshi Monsters did well but most of the shovelware is ignored for the similar styled, higher quality offerings from more established names.

There is just an insane amount of games out on the market these days!

360 Gamers, can profiles roam yet? Other than using a memory card from one xbox to the other, or having to recover the GT on each 360 when you want to use it?

That sounds like roaming to me. Pretty sure it hasn't changed. Not sure how they could do anything else. You can use a local profile if need be.

Sup Ausgaf.

Campbell Newman has cost me my govt job.

Sorry dude

 

[Yagharek]

DAMMIT VOOK YOUR PODCAST HAS OUTSET ISLAND MUSIC IN IT AND IT WONT STOP DEAR GOD I NEED TO GET ON A BOAT

 

[Fredescu]

I meant that keeping their development in house means they can monitor the costs properly, obviously contracts are contracts and as such have terms about how much money a publisher will give a developer to make a game.

Contracts include milestones and milestone payments. If a game isn't far enough along at a certain point, the publisher can refuse to pay and pull the plug on the project. Arguably this could cost them less to do to an external studio since if it's a project they're prepared to pull the plug on, it's up the external studio to deal with the fallout. If it's internal they have to worry about the costs of layoffs or with having another project for the studio to work on.

The cost blowout is more relative to costs external to development; stuff like distribution and marketing that can make or break the profit scenario of a project.

Distribution and marketing is usually 100% handled by the publisher. I don't see much difference in costs between internally and externally developed games here.

EA Partners seems to be working well for EA so far

I'm fairly sure EA partners deals with mostly developer funded games with EA handling the distribution and other optional components like marketing if the developer wants someone else to handle that. That's very different to a publisher going out to tender for a particular type of game.

 

[Salazar]

Dont blame Salazar.

Uh huh.

Bad to hear, Stackboy.

 

[evlcookie]

http://www.reddit.com/r/GuessTheMovie/

Time to start raging.

 

[Yagharek]

This may be bleedingly obvious to me, but I'm not sure if its realistically going to happen.

The premise is this: game development costs are soaring, along with production, labour, marketing, legal, licensing costs etc. World markets for jobs and discretionary spending are contracting; witness foreclosures in the USA, impending doom in Europe, recessions in multiple states of Australia outside of WA and major city professionals. Outside of China, Asian markets are still depressed due to the bust of the Asian economies in the 1990s. Then you have markets like the Middle East, Africa, South Asia, South America and gaming is not exactly affordable for many people there.

Why don't console manufacturers just bail out of the power race altogether, mark time for the next 5-10 years or so, and wait til expectations come down - which in turn will bring down costs. The extra revenue to be generated from making these systems attainable and affordable in developing economies could surely help to do three important things:

1. Make tech leaps affordable next time around
2. Encourage new talent to go into the industry with new ideas courtesy of different cultural backgrounds
3. Give more room for existing studios to expand into new territories, even with old classic IPs. Who wouldnt want to see another chance for Bomberman?

I think expectations in general are too high to be sustainable in the industry, no matter how nice it may be to eventually have perfectly simulated water effects. The economies worldwide are not in a state to sustain this.

 

[Choc]

it was predicted eons ago by many journalists but what will happen is what has happened in hollywood

3-4 major studios developing most content with indies on the side

its going to happen. Consolidation has been happening for years now.

EA
Activision
Ubisoft
2K

most likely

 

[Fredescu]

Why don't console manufacturers just bail out of the power race altogether, mark time for the next 5-10 years or so

Nintendo already bailed out of the power race. A lot of devs are saying the Wii U isn't that much more powerful than the 360 and PS3, so it follows the same lines as the Wii. Microsoft just spent the equivalent of "console launch" marketing dollars on launching Kinect, so signs are good that they will focus their next console on social services and Kinect and much less on horsepower. I think Sony are teetering on irrelevancy.

I don't think any of them can afford to release nothing though if that's what you mean. A hardware launch is a marketing event that generates awareness. Without that they're almost ceding the market to Apple.

 

[markot]

http://www.reddit.com/r/GuessTheMovie/

Time to start raging.

Aw, after the triumph of Battleship I was thinking it was a movie based on Guess Who >.<

 

[Yagharek]

Nintendo already bailed out of the power race. A lot of devs are saying the Wii U isn't that much more powerful than the 360 and PS3, so it follows the same lines as the Wii. Microsoft just spent the equivalent of "console launch" marketing dollars on launching Kinect, so signs are good that they will focus their next console on social services and Kinect and much less on horsepower. I think Sony are teetering on irrelevancy.

I don't think any of them can afford to release nothing though if that's what you mean. A hardware launch is a marketing event that generates awareness. Without that they're almost ceding the market to Apple.

That's the danger isnt it. I guess what they should be doing is making affordable hardware, not "$599" ($1000AUD) magnitude hardware, because that kills the low end of the market pretty much immediately. Wii took off like a rocket as it was priced affordably and appealing. Kinect is doing the same thing.

Even if xbox 3/ps4 are technological powerhouse consoles, they will still be ceding the market to apple if they launch at last (current) gen launch prices.

 

[hamchan]

I'll be very sad if there's no significant graphical upgrade next gen.

 

[markot]

Its funny how people can be so graphically whorey over the new ipads these days >.<

I think they have to keep the race going to a large extent, so there is a clear difference to smart people between 'tablets' and 'real' gaming.

 

[Choc]

Hm.

Hmmmm.

Anyone know if there is a ricky gervais podcast that goes along with the military hbo episode >.<?

every hbo episode is an appended podcast. Give me some quotes and i can probably tell you the season it happened in.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I'll be very sad if there's no significant graphical upgrade next gen.

Blame Microsoft. Judging by what hardware was available at the time and costs in 2005, the 360 was way more powerful than it should have been. It was basically a gaming PC without the massive OS overheads.

They basically skipped a 'generation' and that became the new 'normal'. If you want to be wowed, you really needed to have made do with less this gen.

Besides, nobody but PC gaming pixel counting graphics whores are going to notice the difference between a modest upgrade and a tenfold leap these days. Diminishing returns and the limiting factor in making games isn't hardware anymore, but budget.

 

[FallbackPants]

there is a big rumour that Microsofts competitor to Vita and 3DS will be a windows enabled tablet (Win 8)

i tend to believe this

I could see this too. They're still probably one of the only companies that can take on Apple in tablets. And before that suggestion gets laughed off no one thought they could take on Sony in consoles.

I could be tempted to buy it. I'm not hugely into mobile gaming (I used my PSP for a few months then never touched it again) but tablets are awesome and if it had XBLA games I could be swayed. Especially if its a 7". 10" tablets can cram it

The guys who had Win 8 preview tabs here were pretty impressed weren't they? I've still got the fucking thing installed on my PC because I can't find my damn Win 7 key.

 

[Yagharek]

I'll be very sad if there's no significant graphical upgrade next gen.

Youre primarily a PC gamer, yes?

Personally, I dont mind good graphics, but its been years since Ive considered them essential. Give me functional visuals with good performance and I'm happy if the game is fun.

 

[Fredescu]

That's the danger isnt it. I guess what they should be doing is making affordable hardware, not "$599" ($1000AUD) magnitude hardware, because that kills the low end of the market pretty much immediately. Wii took off like a rocket as it was priced affordably and appealing. Kinect is doing the same thing.

Even if xbox 3/ps4 are technological powerhouse consoles, they will still be ceding the market to apple if they launch at last (current) gen launch prices.

I think they should be looking to be cheaper than the Wii, not more expensive like the Wii U. A low cost console that can serve both existing markets and emerging markets (India, China, so forth). Thinking something that can launch at $250 here.

Blame Microsoft.

Not sure if I buy that. Launch consoles have been more powerful than current PCs for a few generations prior too. It's not something that Microsoft cooked up.

 

[Choc]

the GFC has destroyed a lot of R&D budgets

i think a lot of the top execs are absolutely crapping themselves about what to do. Do you release a brand new super expensive system in this economic environment, with EU killing itself?

do you take that risk? We could have economic disaster in a months time when Greece finally exits the Euro (what you think the Greeks will vote to stay in the EU when the EU is dfemanding they all take pay cuts, work longer hours and stop gvt handouts?) of course they won't even though its worse for them to go back to the Drachma, they will see it as regaining their sovreignty and take the pain

Launching a $600 console could be disasterous during this time. I am sure Nintendo is keeping an eye on this as well.

That said i don't expect the Wii U to be $500, i reckon $399

 

[Choc]

i actually personally think the gen we are in now is fine graphically and power wise


Publishers just need to fucking well come up with some unique ideas!

I recently was thinking man its time for a new gen playing thorugh the latest shooter

but then i realised no its time for new GAMEPLAY. This in higher def would just be the same fucking thing!

This gen being so long has exposed this

 

[Salazar]

I just want more open world games I can play offline on my own.

 

[Choc]

I just want more open world games I can play offline on my own.

buy gravity rush


Gaz, its like crackdown

edit: E3 bolter.

All future PS3 games playable on Vita remote play. VITA games playable on PS3 at some point but not all.

 

[Fredescu]

Personally, I dont mind good graphics, but its been years since Ive considered them essential. Give me functional visuals with good performance and I'm happy if the game is fun.

A good framerate is essential. The problem is they can't sell that in screenshots, so they often sacrifice framerate for something that looks good with an IGN watermark on it. Games than can get away with it like Mario platformers and CoD stick to 60fps because they can afford to be about the gameplay.

 

[Yagharek]

I think they should be looking to be cheaper than the Wii, not more expensive like the Wii U. A low cost console that can serve both existing markets and emerging markets (India, China, so forth). Thinking something that can launch at $250 here.

Agreed wholeheartedly. PC can still serve as a bleeding edge market, and those tools will eventually filter down to the successive generations of consoles, if such devices remain relevant.

I just think at this stage, with all the studio closures and genre consolidation that it is beyond time for a serious effort to expand the market for gaming in general. Not just to women and old timers, but to emerging markets especially.

 

[Choc]

Vince you honestly think EA and Activision give a fuck about that?

They want to be hte only game in town and if a town of creativity is lost in the process who gievs a fuck


guess who else wants that? Their shareholders.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Not sure if I buy that. Launch consoles have been more powerful than current PCs for a few generations prior too. It's not something that Microsoft cooked up.

The only ones I remember fitting that description are obscure things like the Neo Geo. PS2 was nowhere near as close to 2000-era PCs as the 360 was to 2005 PCs, for instance. Same with SNES circa 1991.

Consoles, up until maybe the Xbox, have been pretty bare bones affairs. No OS, no on-board storage, no moving parts.