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[Elaugaufein]

So the reason the ALP has called Cowan was that they found 200 votes for Aly in the Luke Simpkins pile!



My family has been here since all the way back to about 1962 and my best mate can trace his family back to the 1860's gold rush in Queensland. Yet because I'm anglo as and he still looks Chinese even though he's only about 3/8s or so guess who cops the racist abuse and the general mistrust?

In the eyes of many, many of who I suspect voted for Hanson, this has and will always be an Anglo-Saxon country. If only everyone pretended to be Anglo all our problems would be solved, everyone would have a great job and house and we'd grow supermodels on trees or some such.

I'd love Hanson to answer the question one day, what exactly is this Australian Culture migrants need to adhere to? Is it mateship? Guess what every country has that, pretending Australia is somehow unique in this jingoistic aspect is nonsense. Australian culture is pretty generic and derivative but saying that is "Un-Australian', the worst insult possible and without the influence of multiculturalism on this country it would be a pretty fucking boring place.

Actually they were votes for the Greens, it's just that Greens preferences flow to Labor at something like 75%. And they were all being counted as Liberal. Woops.

ETA - You'll never guess who the Australian blames for Hanson's rise. http://bit.ly/29PBsIf

 

[Arksy]

So the reason the ALP has called Cowan was that they found 200 votes for Aly in the Luke Simpkins pile!



My family has been here since all the way back to about 1962 and my best mate can trace his family back to the 1860's gold rush in Queensland. Yet because I'm anglo as and he still looks Chinese even though he's only about 3/8s or so guess who cops the racist abuse and the general mistrust?

In the eyes of many, many of who I suspect voted for Hanson, this has and will always be an Anglo-Saxon country. If only everyone pretended to be Anglo all our problems would be solved, everyone would have a great job and house and we'd grow supermodels on trees or some such.

I'd love Hanson to answer the question one day, what exactly is this Australian Culture migrants need to adhere to? Is it mateship? Guess what every country has that, pretending Australia is somehow unique in this jingoistic aspect is nonsense. Australian culture is pretty generic and derivative but saying that is "Un-Australian', the worst insult possible and without the influence of multiculturalism on this country it would be a pretty fucking boring place.

What I would like to think when people mention Australian Culture; A strict adherence to resolving disputes in a peaceful and democratic manner, an utter dedication to the rule of law. Reverence for the personal, religious and civic liberties that have allowed us to grow as a country. The civic rather than ethnic view of nationhood. The idea that if you buy into these fundamental values, than you are one of us, regardless of where your parents come from. It's what separates British influenced societies from others. It's what makes multiculturalism in Australia and the UK, Canada and the US work very well. (Of course not perfectly).

You could say that every culture has these values, but that's really not true. The Anglosphere shares these values...but almost no other country does. When I think of Australian culture, I think about our loyalty to one another, our frontiers spirit, a dedication to clean livable cities. I think about despite whatever we believe, it seems as though this country has gotten progressively better regardless of who is steering the ship in Parliaments.

We're talking about broad strokes here, let's not forget that there are (probably) other issues in Pauline's comeback other than race. Even if we say that every single vote for Pauline was a vote on nothing but race, it's a reassuringly small part of our country...and mainly concentrated in a specific area.

I think the biggest travesty in this country is the amount of people I've personally run into who are abhorred by racism generally, until it comes to indigenous people.

 

[bomma_man]

I've been thinking a lot recently about whether calling out racists on being racist/homophobic/bigoted whatever is productive behaviour or whether it's better to try and lead others logically (hah) around to less dumbass viewpoints. Obviously in internet slapfights you have no personal investment with the other parties most of the time unless you've been around them for some time (present company excepted), but I expect most change comes gradually from more personal relationships where factors other than just pure arguments can swing people's minds.

On the other hand, you get shit like that. Sorry arksy, sounds pretty crap to be honest. I tend to find that I've pruned my friendlists so I don't really have a lot of people who disagree with me heavily on politics... at least none that I care enough to meaningfully engage with...

Iirc emotional appeals tend to work better... Which I think why gay rights have come so far so quickly. People think "that could be my son/daughter", whereas it's harder to do that with race/culture. This is why the most white electorates are often the most xenophobic - it's very easy to other-ise people that you don't interact with. Doesn't explain the way indigenous people are treated in some of those same places though.

 

[Shaneus]

What? pretty much every time the Liberals whined and we had some kind of independent inquiry the ABC was cleared.

Libs launching an independent inquiry into something completely not worthwhile and the outcome going entirely as expected? Sounds familiar.

If you want comedy you should be watching Q&A, Brandis and Steve Price are losing their minds atm.

Wasn't it amazing?

Actually they were votes for the Greens, it's just that Greens preferences flow to Labor at something like 75%. And they were all being counted as Liberal. Woops.

What in the actual fuck? Could this have happened anywhere else?

 

[hidys]

Labor has claimed victory in Hindmarsh.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-...ve-georganas-claims-hindmarsh-victory/7624706

 

[elfinke]

Oh, this isn't the article I was looking for, which was about one of these groups wanting to have things like 18C suspended during the referendum, but this is the incident that kicked it off: https://www.crikey.com.au/2015/12/02/rundle-imagine-theres-no-religion-in-education/

It was the Christian Democratic Party (Hinch and Hanson support such a move, of course), along with the ACL dregs:

http://www.christiandemocraticparty.../CDP-FE16-Policies-6-Key-Policies-Summary.pdf

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-for-plebiscite-campaign-20160215-gmu4kd.html

There was a brief segment on it during this weeks' Mad As Hell.

 

[bobnowhere]

Time for a change in title?

AusPoliGaf |2016| - We stuck with the current mob for a while... just

 

[Elaugaufein]

Needs : Even the Senate appended.

Also we should probably go back to Community soon or are we going to wait out the 2 weeks for a definitive Senate Result ?

 

[Arksy]

So the Greens + Liberal Senate reforms have been a resounding success? Totally managed to get rid of the ferals. :')

 

[Elaugaufein]

So the Greens + Liberal Senate reforms have been a resounding success? Totally managed to get rid of the ferals. :')

To be fair given a couple of half-Senate elections it will probably help. And given like 3 or 4 of those we should start to see some of the almost identical micros merging and the preference funneling vehicles die (Stop the Greens is the Liberal Democrats). It might have even helped at the moment, I haven't seen any numbers on what the likely result with GTV would have been (its probably impossible to say since very few parties have made their full preferences available when only 6 where necessary). I know Pirate Party did and I think the Greens may have, since ranking is done by member vote and then adjusted by negotiation if members voted for that (essentially a formality), its definitely existing.

And the Greens weren't looking to clear out the ferals , they were lookong to get rid of GTV for other reasons (mainly self-interest in Labor not being able to use GTVs to screw them and incidentally elect a right wing nutcase)

 

[Arksy]

You'd just need to halve current numbers for a normal senate ballot, it seems like you're still going to get a bunch of independents. In any case, the thing that makes me laugh the hardest is that the Greens go from 10 Senators, to 6. Still pretty powerful in the Senate, but there's more than 6 cross benchers.

 

[Elaugaufein]

You'd just need to halve current numbers for a normal senate ballot, it seems like you're still going to get a bunch of independents. In any case, the thing that makes me laugh the hardest is that the Greens go from 10 Senators, to 6. Still pretty powerful in the Senate, but there's more than 6 cross benchers.

That's not quiet true, the elimination of GTV changed the preferences and weight of preference deals a bit (though still some dickery going on , like Labor preferencing Hinch and the Lib Dems in some states. And not preferencing NXT*)

Unlikely to be 6 in the final count. Will almost certainly get at least one more over on preferences (probably 2ish?). But yeah they'll lose at least 1 and more likely 2 , maybe 3.

DDs aren't in the Greens interests most of the time, due to their vote share amount being in just the wrong range. Larissa Waters definitely benefitted though, she probably wouldn't have been re-elected in a half , which makes Queenslands Senators look mildly less embarrassing so I'll take it.

* A lot of political strategists seem to be too clever by half and try to game the system rather than realizing that minor party voting and the elimination of GTV introduces enough chaos to make that a bad idea.

 

[Fredescu]

Time for a change in title?

AusPoliGaf |2016| - We stuck with the current mob for a while... just

AusPoliGaf |2016| - Mal. Bad. (in the Latin)

(From Firefly, I'm not that clever)

 

[Arksy]

Unlikely to be 6 in the final count. Will almost certainly get at least one more over on preferences (probably 2ish?). But yeah they'll lose at least 1 and more likely 2 , maybe 3.

DDs aren't in the Greens interests most of the time, due to their vote share amount being in just the wrong range. Larissa Waters definitely benefitted though, she probably wouldn't have been re-elected in a half , which makes Queenslands Senators look mildly less embarrassing so I'll take it.

ABC current has 3 to the greens with a likely 3 more. We will see how the next few Senate elections go, it's hard to tell at current, you're right.

 

[Elaugaufein]

ABC current has 3 to the greens with a likely 3 more. We will see how the next few Senate elections go, it's hard to tell at current, you're right.

ABCs being very conservative there (the 3 likelies are on like 0.9), there's another 3 around 0.4 (so some will probably make it on preferences) from overflow in WA / TAS / VIC.

ETA - Sorry, edited the post above while you replied. Not sure if it changes anything but hey its a headsup.

 

[Arksy]

Fair enough, again we'll have to see. If they get more than 10, and if you're right that DD's don't favour them, it'll be a success for them. Still hasn't really solved the problem of the Cross-benchers though. There seem to be enough there to make a lot of legislation difficult.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Fair enough, again we'll have to see. If they get more than 10, and if you're right that DD's don't favour them, it'll be a success for them. Still hasn't really solved the problem of the Cross-benchers though. There seem to be enough there to make a lot of legislation difficult.

Nah, they won't get more than 10. Even 9s an outside. The analysis I've seen is almost definitely 7 and 8 is possible.

The Greens vote is like as badly positioned as it's possible to be geographically (to concentrated in some places (Melbourne) and too spread out in others). They have ~0.7 of a normal Senate Quota in 3 states at moment and ~0.45 in another 3. Their SA vote has taken a real nosedive this time too, not sure why ? Probably NXT ,or maybe News Corp finally found something to drop on Hanson-Young that stuck. That usually works out to 1 per half Senate in 3 and one every 2-3ish in the other. The DD effectively guarantees the 0.45s but cuts out some of the 2nds from the 0.7.

 

[bobnowhere]

Not easy to see where the senate is going at the moment but it should be something like:

• NSW: 5 Lib, 4 Lab, 1 GRN, 1ONP, 1LDP or CDP (Probs LDP due to preference flow and name recognition)
• VIC: 4 Lib, 4 Lab, 1GRN, 1 Derryn. Last two are probably 1 extra Lib and 1 GRN
• QLD: 5 LIB, 4 Lab, 1 ONP, 1 GRN. Last spot could be anyone from LDP, ONP other?
• SA: 4 LIB, 4 Lab, 3 NXT, 1GRN
• WA: 5 Lib, 4 Lab, 1 GRN, 1ONP. Last spot probably between GRN and the WA Nationals. Not a lot of flow from Libs so I suspect GRN are favs for a 2nd.
• Tas: 4 Lab, 4 Lib, 2 GRN, 1 Lambie. Last spot between Lab, Lib and maybe ONP. Will probably go Lab as there is some flow and at least one anti liberal fishing party did well.
• The Rest: 2 Lab, 2 Lib.

So far (Best guess in ()):

• 29 Coalition (30)
• 26 Labor (27)
• 7 GRN (9)
• 3 ONP (3)
• 3 Nxt (3)
• 1 Derryn (1)
• 1 Lambie (1)
• 0 LDP (1)
• +1 other from Queensland

 

[Elaugaufein]

Not easy to see where the senate is going at the moment but it should be something like:

• NSW: 5 Lib, 4 Lab, 1 GRN, 1ONP, 1LDP or CDP (Probs LDP due to preference flow and name recognition)
• VIC: 4 Lib, 4 Lab, 1GRN, 1 Derryn. Last two are probably 1 extra Lib and 1 GRN
• QLD: 5 LIB, 4 Lab, 1 ONP, 1 GRN. Last spot could be anyone from LDP, ONP other?
• SA: 4 LIB, 4 Lab, 3 NXT, 1GRN
• WA: 5 Lib, 4 Lab, 1 GRN, 1ONP. Last spot probably between GRN and the WA Nationals. Not a lot of flow from Libs so I suspect GRN are favs for a 2nd.
• Tas: 4 Lab, 4 Lib, 2 GRN, 1 Lambie. Last spot between Lab, Lib and maybe ONP. Will probably go Lab as there is some flow and at least one anti liberal fishing party did well.
• The Rest: 2 Lab, 2 Lib.

So far (Best guess in ()):

• 29 Coalition (30)
• 26 Labor (27)
• 7 GRN (9)
• 3 ONP (3)
• 3 Nxt (3)
• 1 Derryn (1)
• 1 Lambie (1)
• 0 LDP (1)
• +1 other from Queensland

This is pretty much the analysis I've seen too. Except you have an extra Green and one fewer Christian.
https://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2016/07/12/senate-photo-finishes/

 

[Arksy]

Nah, they won't get more than 10. Even 9s an outside. The analysis I've seen is almost definitely 7 and 8 is possible.

The Greens vote is like as badly positioned as it's possible to be geographically (to concentrated in some places (Melbourne) and too spread out in others). They have ~0.7 of a normal Senate Quota in 3 states at moment and ~0.45 in another 3. Their SA vote has taken a real nosedive this time too, not sure why ? Probably NXT ,or maybe News Corp finally found something to drop on Hanson-Young that stuck. That usually works out to 1 per half Senate in 3 and one every 2-3ish in the other. The DD effectively guarantees the 0.45s but cuts out some of the 2nds from the 0.7.

NXT has eaten the Green vote to the core, despite being very much politically distinct. The NXT has been campaigning on a very pro-SA stint, but they're incredibly centrist with a slight right-tilt. Either way, it's difficult to overstate just how popular Nick Xenophon is here down here.

 

[Elaugaufein]

NXT has eaten the Green vote to the core, despite being very much politically distinct. The NXT has been campaigning on a very pro-SA stint, but they're incredibly centrist with a slight right-tilt.

The protest vote block has really weird behavior from a political viewpoint since it's a combination of "FU, anyone recently in power" and "Everyone is talking about ..." , with no real ideological position.

I'm still not sure an actual centrist party can exist long term: Some taxes for non-functional services isn't a convincing pitch. But NXT has been very clever with doing some local protectionism and taking some populist anti free market positions (like Gambling crackdowns). They certainly aren't hurt by the fact that between Howard , Abbott and the Nationals the Coalition is a fair way right at the moment, which opens up ground that wouldn't usually be available.

 

[Arksy]

The protest vote block has really weird behavior from a political viewpoint since it's a combination of "FU, anyone recently in power" and "Everyone is talking about ..." , with no real ideological position.

I'm still not sure an actual centrist party can exist long term: Some taxes for non-functional services isn't a convincing pitch. But NXT has been very clever with doing some local protectionism and taking some populist anti free market positions (like Gambling crackdowns). They certainly aren't hurt by the fact that between Howard , Abbott and the Nationals the Coalition is a fair way right at the moment, which opens up ground that wouldn't usually be available.

It helps that every time the Government has to rely on his vote in the Senate, he's extricated significant concessions for SA which are plastered over our media here.

The victory in Mayo is almost exclusively due to the bullheaded and utterly moronic decision by the liberal party not to dis-endorse Briggs for his disgusting behavior.

 

[Elaugaufein]

It helps that every time the Government has to rely on his vote in the Senate, he's extricated significant concessions for SA which are plastered over our media here.

The victory in Mayo is almost exclusively due to the bullheaded and utterly moronic decision by the liberal party not to dis-endorse Briggs for his disgusting behavior.

I wonder if Labor will preference NXT ahead of Libs next time, given they don't implode. Its certainly in their interest if they think they can win.

 

[bobnowhere]

This is pretty much the analysis I've seen too. Except you have an extra Green and one fewer Christian.
https://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2016/07/12/senate-photo-finishes/

Apart from giving the 12th in QLD to the LDP seems to agree with mine. Not quite sure they will get across the line, the 12th in Queensland is probably the most open for me. Maybe I'm pollbludger,

Spoiler

I'm not.

CDP might get in in NSW, but Leyonhjelm more likely atm.

So if we assume that's about right. Labor+ Green = 36 and Coaltion + NXT + ONP +the rest = 40. Now shave off 1 for the speaker, 39, and the Coalition can only really afford to lose 1 of the rest to get anything passed. Means that ONP will be vital to get anything anti Labor/Green passed and the image of Turnbull getting into bed with Hanson will make me smile for the next three years!

Now if the Labor/green block drop a seat, the greens still might, the Coalition will likely be able to get things passed with the rest minus ONP, probably a much happier situation for Mal. Though Jackie still hates the Coalitions guts!

Another option might be an independent president, NXT might be amenable. It wouldn't be Nick, but he'd love the power.

 

[Jintor]

So if we assume that's about right. Labor+ Green = 36 and Coaltion + NXT + ONP +the rest = 40. Now shave off 1 for the speaker, 39, and the Coalition can only really afford to lose 1 of the rest to get anything passed. Means that ONP will be vital to get anything anti Labor/Green passed and the image of Turnbull getting into bed with Hanson will make me smile for the next three years!

It's good in a real schaudenfreude 'turnbull has to suffer a bit' sense, but I get the feeling it won't be so pleasant for everybody overall...

 

[Elaugaufein]

Apart from giving the 12th in QLD to the LDP seems to agree with mine. Not quite sure they will get across the line, the 12th in Queensland is probably the most open for me. Maybe I'm pollbludger,

Spoiler

I'm not.

CDP might get in in NSW, but Leyonhjelm more likely atm.

So if we assume that's about right. Labor+ Green = 36 and Coaltion + NXT + ONP +the rest = 40. Now shave off 1 for the speaker, 39, and the Coalition can only really afford to lose 1 of the rest to get anything passed. Means that ONP will be vital to get anything anti Labor/Green passed and the image of Turnbull getting into bed with Hanson will make me smile for the next three years!

Now if the Labor/green block drop a seat, the greens still might, the Coalition will likely be able to get things passed with the rest minus ONP, probably a much happier situation for Mal. Though Jackie still hates the Coalitions guts!

Another option might be an independent president, NXT might be amenable. It wouldn't be Nick, but he'd love the power.

I'm afraid you're mistaken, the President of the Senate votes normally (since they are theoretically a representative of their state as much as the party) rather than only on ties.

 

[bobnowhere]

I'm afraid you're mistaken, the President of the Senate votes normally (since they are theoretically a representative of their state as much as the party) rather than only on ties.

Didn't know that, makes sense on a equity level though.

I think my numbers are out by one anyway! So if the Greens only get 8 instead of nine, the Coalition still can't bypass ONP as it should be 38-38. Oh my, I wouldn't give Mal's troubles to a monkey on a rock. Of course this assumes ONP votes as a block for the entire time. Theoretically they should be stronger than Palmer as at least they have an agreed upon party platform that goes beyond Palmer's look at me, I'm Clive Palmer!

 

[Dryk]

I'm still not sure an actual centrist party can exist long term: Some taxes for non-functional services isn't a convincing pitch. But NXT has been very clever with doing some local protectionism and taking some populist anti free market positions (like Gambling crackdowns). They certainly aren't hurt by the fact that between Howard , Abbott and the Nationals the Coalition is a fair way right at the moment, which opens up ground that wouldn't usually be available.

A bunch of wets get fed up with the clowns in the Liberal Party, break away and form a centrist party which promptly implodes. The net result being the LNP lurching to the right. You'll be able to set your clock by it pretty soon.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Didn't know that, makes sense on a equity level though.

I think my numbers are out by one anyway! So if the Greens only get 8 instead of nine, the Coalition still can't bypass ONP as it should be 38-38. Oh my, I wouldn't give Mal's troubles to a monkey on a rock. Of course this assumes ONP votes as a block for the entire time. Theoretically they should be stronger than Palmer as at least they have an agreed upon party platform that goes beyond Palmer's look at me, I'm Clive Palmer!

By my numbers they can never bypass One Nation and NXT simultaneously (without dealing with the Greens or Labor), even with One Nation and NXT , they can only afford 1 or 2 crossbench defections depending on the numbers.

Given Poll Bludger is correct (and his order of likelihood turns out to be accurate) numbers are:
Coalition 30
Labor 26 + 1 = 27 (The interplay here is weird since its ALP/GRN/LIB in that order for 2 seats, so the ALP or Greens flubbing ensures the other gets a seat but also the Liberals get 1)
Greens 7 + 2 = 9 (Alt is +1 / +2 Coalition)
One Nation 3
Xenophon 3
Lib Dems 1 + 1 = 2 (alt is 1 Lib Dem and 1 CDP, and the CDP is even more likely to back the Coalition so ...)
Hinch 1
Lambie 1

Thats
Coalition 30
Labor 27
Greens 9
One Nation 3
NXT 3
Lib Dems 2
Hinch 1
Lambie 1

You need 38 to block , 39 to pass. As a result the Coalition always has to have both One Nation and NXT on side (or at least abstaining) to pass legislation (since 39 is a block), this remains true even if the Greens or ALP lose 1 between them. They can only ever afford 1 defections even with both ONP and NXT on their side. It's going to be a fun ride if this analysis is correct. Especially since I think getting NXT and ONP on side is going to be really hard since Xenophon really likes his Sensible Center credentials, so you're unlikely to get both at once without SA getting some nice concessions or having Labor on side anyway.

A bunch of wets get fed up with the clowns in the Liberal Party, break away and form a centrist party which promptly implodes. The net result being the LNP lurching to the right. You'll be able to set your clock by it pretty soon.

The really weird bit is that the Nationals (or LNP seats that are effectively national in all respects) are now occasionally throwing up people who are socially to the Left of some of the Libs. That's not something you'd have expected to happen , it's a bit hidden since almost all of the LNP sits with the Libs , just for the larger voting block power though.

It'll be interesting to see if Xenophon can keep his party together. Being largely a bunch of ex-Libs is probably advantageous to him there: they know about working as a block and they've already decided they don't want to be a part of the nearest block they could defect too.

 

[bobnowhere]

They would always have to deal with NXT. He's already got the Subs, a small promise of support for Arrium with I imagine more to come. He'll want gambling reform as well, another senate inquiry will put him off for a while and something more for job loses in the car industry will sew NXT up. Nick will insert the odd amendment but he shouldn't be too hard the the Government. NXT doesn't want anything political unpalatable to the Coalition, he just wants a bit more spending.

On the other hand, ONP has some very specific policies unpalatable to the Coalition. Can't imagine the RCs into Islam or Climate Change will ever get anywhere and even fobbing them off on a senate inquiry will fatally damage Mal's progressive image, well what's left of it! Some in the Senate, Bernardi, will love them but again it would destroy Turnbull giving into the RWNJs.

 

[Elaugaufein]

They would always have to deal with NXT. He's already got the Subs, a small promise of support for Arrium with I imagine more to come. He'll want gambling reform as well, another senate inquiry will put him off for a while and something more for job loses in the car industry will sew NXT up. Nick will insert the odd amendment but he shouldn't be too hard the the Government. NXT doesn't want anything political unpalatable to the Coalition, he just wants a bit more spending.

On the other hand, ONP has some very specific policies unpalatable to the Coalition. Can't imagine the RCs into Islam or Climate Change will ever get anywhere and even fobbing them off on a senate inquiry will fatally damage Mal's progressive image, well what's left of it! Some in the Senate, Bernardi, will love them but again it would destroy Turnbull giving into the RWNJs.

Turnbull's already boned there: Barnaby is going to be pressuring for Communications (potentially a good thing for the NBN honestly, the MTM approach is actually pretty balls for Nationals electorates but probably bad for everything else) and to delay the SSM plebiscite until the end of time (in smaller increments). And the right wing of the Libs already have their knives out, and their usual media mouthpieces already want Tony back in Cabinet if not as PM.

 

[Dead Man]

Every time I get depressed thinking about Xenophon and One Nation (not the same thing, just both make me sad in different ways) I look at the international news and laugh myself silly. Boris for Foreign Secretary. We may have idiots, but at least they are mild idiots compared to the shit lots of places have to deal with.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Every time I get depressed thinking about Xenophon and One Nation (not the same thing, just both make me sad in different ways) I look at the international news and laugh myself silly. Boris for Foreign Secretary. We may have idiots, but at least they are mild idiots compared to the shit lots of places have to deal with.

Our voting system really is an effective pressure valve.

AV in the lower house both effectively lets minor parties build up over time if necessary and provides an outlet for those who don't like the majors that eventually channels back into whichever centrist party is closer to you.

And the Proportional System in the Senate gives groups approximately the representation that they deserve, so you don't get bottled up resentment and hostile party takeovers.

(I'd still like to see a more proportional lower house system of some form but we've not got it bad when all is said and done. )

 

[Dead Man]

Our voting system really is an effective pressure valve.

AV in the lower house both effectively lets minor parties build up over time if necessary and provides an outlet for those who don't like the majors that eventually channels back into whichever centrist party is closer to you.

And the Proportional System in the Senate gives groups approximately the representation that they deserve, so you don't get bottled up resentment and hostile party takeovers.

(I'd still like to see a more proportional lower house system of some form but we've not got it bad when all is said and done. )

Yeah, it may not be perfect, but preferential voting and a proportional upper house go a long way.

 

[Arksy]

Mandatory voting helps, if only to stop arguments about which bloc voted which way.

Also, yeah, it was nice coming back to a country that seemingly has most of its shit together.

Coming to an election where the two sides were arguing about policy specifics in few very narrow areas, and were not determining the long term direction of the country. Yeah it felt both nice and sadly meaningless.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Yeah, it may not be perfect, but preferential voting and a proportional upper house go a long way.

Looking at our history, ironically enough it's largely been the right side of politic that have voluntarily taken necessarily political reform that would hurt them. The left side reform has generally either been necessary or opportunistic and immediately beneficial, and the opportunistic stuff has tended to bite them in the arse with later demographic shifts.

To be fair to Labor though they haven't been in power anywhere near as much (and almost never with the hilariously one sided and unrepresentative situations that resulted in Proportional Voting in the Senate), and they have made a few necessary but minor reforms at state levels.

As a Queenslander: Queensland is awful, one full compulsory AV house with 4 year terms. Labor is responsible for pretty much all of those things.

 

[bomma_man]

Looking at our history, ironically enough it's largely been the right side of politic that have voluntarily taken necessarily political reform that would hurt them. The left side reform has generally either been necessary or opportunistic and immediately beneficial, and the opportunistic stuff has tended to bite them in the arse with later demographic shifts.

To be fair to Labor though they haven't been in power anywhere near as much (and almost never with the hilariously one sided and unrepresentative situations that resulted in Proportional Voting in the Senate), and they have made a few necessary but minor reforms at state levels.

As a Queenslander: Queensland is awful, one full compulsory AV house with 4 year terms. Labor is responsible for pretty much all of those things.

I guess, broadly, it can be tied back to the old tension between liberalism and democracy, which are nominally advanced by the libs and labs respectively.

 

[hidys]

Regarding the next Auspoligaf thread I feel semi-strongly that it should be called.

AusPoliGaf |2016| - A Strong, Stable Government.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Regarding the next Auspoligaf thread I feel semi-strongly that it should be called.

AusPoliGaf |2016| - A Strong, Stable Government.

I'm guessing you mean the post election title change ? We probably won't get another thread before the next election unless either a) the Senate is super hilarious or b) they actually put Abbott back in the ministry. Gotta say its not a bad title.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Well the Election is officially over, the Daily Telegraph has made the ritual prediction of the Greens demise (and incidentally applauded GTV as more democratic than the new system).

Now if only someone would tell the right wing Twitter bots who are still continuously flooding #auspol with campaign stuff by rotating the same posts every day like the election hasn't been over for 2 weeks.

 

[Jintor]

the wettest fart of a victory ever

 

[bobnowhere]

Herbert down to 19 votes in favour of the LNP.

Edit: Now 12!

 

[Elaugaufein]

Herbert down to 19 votes in favour of the LNP.

Edit: Now 12!

As long at is under 100 either way , they do a full recount. Herbert seems like it wants to be the last seat called.

 

[bobnowhere]

As long at is under 100 either way , they do a full recount. Herbert seems like it wants to be the last seat called.

Apparently Brandis is up there personally scrutinising Herbert. Probably doesn't have much else to do being the chief law officer of Australia.

 

[Arksy]

Apparently Brandis is up there personally scrutinising Herbert. Probably doesn't have much else to do being the chief law officer of Australia.

Good, the less time someone spends being AG the better our country gets.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Apparently Brandis is up there personally scrutinising Herbert. Probably doesn't have much else to do being the chief law officer of Australia.

Hey now given the choice of him scrutinizing or doing his legislation stuff, I'll take him scrutinizing given his function as a law officer has largely been awful. He's the standard muppet who basically does whatever the hell NatSec or Law Enforcement says regardless of things like civil liberties or legal standing.

ETA - I agree with Arksy again. Weird. I really should keep count of that and on what topics.

 

[Arksy]

Hey now given the choice of him scrutinizing or doing his legislation stuff, I'll take him scrutinizing given his function as a law officer has largely been awful. He's the standard muppet who basically does whatever the hell NatSec or Law Enforcement says regardless of things like civil liberties or legal standing.

ETA - I agree with Arksy again. Weird. I really should keep count of that and on what topics.

Yeah, that seems to be the standard function of AG. I don't think I've ever disliked a single politician more than I've disliked Nicola Roxon as AG. I'm so glad most of her legislation fell through. I wish I could say the same for Brandis. :/

 

[bomma_man]

Any tips for the next Chief Justice Arksy? I just noticed today that French is 69.

 

[i_am_ben]

Regarding the next Auspoligaf thread I feel semi-strongly that it should be called.

AusPoliGaf |2016| - A Strong, Stable Government.

AusPoliGaf |2016| - One Nation under Hanson

AusPoliGaf |2016| - NXT stop instability!

 

[Arksy]

Any tips for the next Chief Justice Arksy? I just noticed today that French is 69.

Is he now? He's been a pretty good judge. I have no idea, but I'll miss him. He was an intellectual force on the HC.