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[Candescence]

So the Abbot government know about this nonsense as far back as after the 2013 election. And Cullerton could be kicked off as well? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

If this mess somehow ends with Labor getting two senate seats, this is going to be an absolute RIOT.

 

[bobnowhere]

So the Abbot government know about this nonsense as far back as after the 2013 election. And Cullerton could be kicked off as well? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

If this mess somehow ends with Labor getting two senate seats, this is going to be an absolute RIOT.

I don't think there will be any change in WA as they ran 3 on their ticket so even if Cullerton is kicked they would still have 2 and be eligible for a group ticket if the High Court decide 1 can't be a group ticket in the Day case. Also I think it was the WA Nats candidate that was eliminated last in WA.

Elaugaufein had a link a while back when everyone assumed Cullerton would get quickly kicked and it showed the 2nd person on the ONP ticket would get elected. I think it was Cullerton's Wife!

I love how Abbott still managed to get involved in this!

 

[Yagharek]

This is all incredibly disturbing. It has implications as to whether we do even have democracy any more. People joke that Australia is becoming fascist but I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I don't think there will be any change in WA as they ran 3 on their ticket so even if Cullerton is kicked they would still have 2 and be eligible for a group ticket if the High Court decide 1 can't be a group ticket in the Day case. Also I think it was the WA Nats candidate that was eliminated last in WA.

Elaugaufein had a link a while back when everyone assumed Cullerton would get quickly kicked and it showed the 2nd person on the ONP ticket would get elected. I think it was Cullerton's Wife!

I love how Abbott still managed to get involved in this!

Yeah, there's no real leakage on the WA ticket because everyone on it is a no name. Day as a sitting Senator, who was part of the balance of power and made a fair go at publicizing himself on the other hand actually had an existing non-ticket vote (amusingly this works in FF's favour in SA if the election stands (but doesn't change the results) because NXT and Greens get up earlier with smaller quota's and so distribute weaker surpluses. .

 

[bobnowhere]

Looks like Cullerton is going full Roberts and has decided that all judges are sitting falsely as they don't issue Queen's Writs or something. This means all judges are not acting fitly and all rulings are invalid under the constitution. I think he's tried this before in the WA where is owes 250k and he was laughed out of the court.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Looks like Cullerton is going full Roberts and has decided that all judges are sitting falsely as they don't issue Queen's Writs or something. This means all judges are not acting fitly and all rulings are invalid under the constitution. I think he's tried this before in the WA where is owes 250k and he was laughed out of the court.

Yeah, he's tried it before. Unsurprisingly the Judiciary aren't having a bar of it, and there's only one authority that can trump the High Court on the Constitution and that's a referendum. I can't see anyone putting that theory up to the vote.

 

[bomma_man]

He's a sovereign? Perfect.

 

[Aarglefarg]

Looks like Cullerton is going full Roberts and has decided that all judges are sitting falsely as they don't issue Queen's Writs or something. This means all judges are not acting fitly and all rulings are invalid under the constitution. I think he's tried this before in the WA where is owes 250k and he was laughed out of the court.

I suspected this when I read this today:

"This is a constitutional matter and boy am I sharp on the Constitution (the real law of Australia) so this is right up my veggie patch.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...e-examined-by-high-court-20161102-gsga1f.html

 

[Elaugaufein]

He's a sovereign? Perfect.

I don't think he is exactly. He's going to be one of the Sheriff as ultimate lawful authority loonies, since he's acknowledging Monarchal power here. But the legal arguments have approximately the same merit (and are often pretty similar).

 

[Candescence]

Still, this ain't gonna endear One Nation towards the government no matter what happens.

Edit: It just occurred to me... Couldn't it be argued that One Nation is also at fault in this by putting forward a candidate who was ineligible? I'm pretty sure the conviction wasn't something that the party didn't know about. By all rights they should be penalised for letting this happen.

 

[bobnowhere]

15 Quotes from Cullerton's Presser earlier:

QUOTE 1) "On Saturday, which was the weekend." - Senator Culleton leaves voters in no doubt as to the timeline of events.

QUOTE 2) "I'm not sure whether I'm gonna participate in any High Court jurisdiction and if I do I'll simply go down, shear a sheep and take the belly fleece and stick it over my head and represent myself, because I'm a true Australian standing up for the Australian people." - Senator Culleton gives the scoop on his legal strategy.

QUOTE 3) "That's really all I've got to say at this point in time." - Senator Culleton wraps up, somewhat prematurely. He continued to speak for 15 minutes.

QUOTE 4) "At all material times I was innocent." - Senator Culleton on a court case in which he actually pleaded guilty.

QUOTE 5) "Geographically, it's a hard gig to get up to that part of NSW." - Senator Culleton on the New England region, where his court case was held and tens of thousands of tourists somehow manage to visit each year.

QUOTE 6) "I have come to the Senate with a couple of battle scars, but I'm dealing with them and I'm funding all that myself, so I'm doing it the best way I can and I'm going out as an opening batsman and, you know, trying to hit one hundred." - Senator Culleton describes what it's like to come to politics with a past.

QUOTE 7) "Just because I turn around and say that I took a key, it's no different to taking a scone off someone's plate." - Senator Culleton compares a larceny charge with the habits of a hungry child at a CWA luncheon.

QUOTE 8) "We're talking about a single pocket key, really. One single key. I actually offered to buy him a brass one; it was a silver one, from memory." - Senator Culleton on the $7.50 key that could tip the Senate into turmoil.

QUOTE 9) "I'm not here to be cross-examined by the media." - Senator Culleton at a press conference, which are usually called to allow media to question the person who called it.

QUOTE 10) "There's a good old saying: you grab a tiger by the tail, you've got to hang on. And I'm hangin' on and this thing is scratching but I'm still hangin' on." - Senator Culleton on how best to approach a visit to the zoo, or career in politics.

QUOTE 11) "When you're in politics it's hard to take advice, because you've got to be confident in that advice." - Senator Culleton reveals he is, in fact, the fount of all wisdom

QUOTE 12) "I'm not a criminal lawyer. Well, I'm not a lawyer at all." - Senator Culleton, who had earlier said he'd represent himself in the highest court in the land.

QUOTE 13) "What, I've got to come up with another $100,000 to have everyone sit up there like Harry Potter? I'm not doing that." - Senator Culleton compares High Court attire to the famous fantasy novels.

QUOTE 14) "I could have had four glasses of wine at the time I was nominating and thought I would fill out the form and be free and easy, I don't know." - Senator Culleton on the crucial question of whether he nominated to stand for Parliament knowing he was not allowed to.

QUOTE 15) "Someone probably not as good as me." - Senator Culleton's assessment of who might replace him if he's thrown out.

ONP candidate selection hasn't really improved since the late 90's disaster!

 

[darkace]

Under-educated bogans want people to represent them. They're after a straight-talker who is single-minded about their issues, not Slick Willy. ONP won't ever have good candidates because they're not drawing from a quality well.

 

[Candescence]

So Bob Day's creditors are trying to claw back his donations to Family First, which could bankrupt the party itself.

Talk about reaping what you've sown.

 

[Elaugaufein]

So Bob Day's creditors are trying to claw back his donations to Family First, which could bankrupt the party itself.

Talk about reaping what you've sown.

You actually have to feel bad for the original FF people to some extent. First Bob Day comes in and offers money, then stages a semi-hostile take over of the party until there's almost as many Day style super-dry ex-Libs as there are actual social conservative Christians in the party and now a loan they took from Day in good faith may bankrupt them.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

You actually have to feel bad for the original FF people to some extent. First Bob Day comes in and offers money, then stages a semi-hostile take over of the party until there's almost as many Day style super-dry ex-Libs as there are actual social conservative Christians in the party and now a loan they took from Day in good faith may bankrupt them.

They may be reprehensible theocrats whose political philosophy is predicated on the doctrinally problematic Dominion Theology (give unto Caesar etc), but there's no denying that they founded the party because they thought they were doing the Right Thing. These are misguided but well-meaning people who have been taken advantage of by a cynical huckster.

This situation gives me the strongest sense of deja vu for some reason.

 

[Elaugaufein]

They may be reprehensible theocrats whose political philosophy is predicated on the doctrinally problematic Dominion Theology (give unto Caesar etc), but there's no denying that they founded the party because they thought they were doing the Right Thing. These are misguided but well-meaning people who have been taken advantage of by a cynical huckster.

This situation gives me the strongest sense of deja vu for some reason.

It really is a disturbingly common pattern historically.

 

[bobnowhere]

So Bob Day's creditors are trying to claw back his donations to Family First, which could bankrupt the party itself.

Talk about reaping what you've sown.

It was always pretty dodgy when he "forgave" the millions he lent them just before going bankrupt. Not sure how he thought he'd get away with that.

In other news Scott Ludlum is taking time off to deal with anxiety and depression issues. I was wondering why I hadn't seen him in a while.

 

[Candescence]

Also, Leyonhjelm is saying he won't vote in favor of the ABCC bill... Unless the government repeals 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, because of course.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Also, Leyonhjelm is saying he won't vote in favor of the ABCC bill... Unless the government repeals 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, because of course.

That's him pretty much giving them the middle finger in the near term. The government simply doesn't have the numbers, Xenophon told them to get lost, and neither Labor nor the Greens are going to be as sympathetic as Xenophon.

The only way the Government could repeal 18C is with a DD and I doubt Leyjonhelm or the government want that. Even Labor would find it questionable. They'd win and have a more sympathetic Senate but would still be dependent on Lambie, Hinch or NXT and up shit creek without a paddle if they didn't get Greens support on a proposal.

 

[Candescence]

Another DD would be asking for disaster. I don't think the Australian public would look too kindly on a government who uses the DD card twice in a row, especially if it's so soon. It's the sort of thing that might push a lot more people to think "maybe Labor in power won't be so bad after all if the alternative is the mess we have right now..."

 

[bobnowhere]

The Tasmanian Libs have a proposal on the table to change the HoR ballot paper from Green to something else as they believe the colour subliminally encourages people to vote for the Greens.

 

[Elaugaufein]

The Tasmanian Libs have a proposal on the table to change the HoR ballot paper from Green to something else as they believe the colour subliminally encourages people to vote for the Greens.

You know the existing evidence if anything suggests the opposite.

1) The Greens almost never perform as well on election day as they do on voting intention polls.
2) They do better in the Senate than the house of Reps.

 

[bobnowhere]

You know the existing evidence if anything suggests the opposite.

1) The Greens almost never perform as well on election day as they do on voting intention polls.
2) They do better in the Senate than the house of Reps.

Ahhh, but you're bringing facts to a feelings argument!

 

[Elaugaufein]

Ahhh, but you're bringing facts to a feelings argument!

Long may they be idiots then.

 

[bomma_man]

To be fair to the Tasmanian liberals they appointed an unrepentant softy as chief magistrate. She has a big hand in running the drug diversion court, the mental health list and the youth court. Our AG did a PHD on intergenerational crime so she's actually been pretty decent re this kind of stuff.

 

[Elaugaufein]

To be fair to the Tasmanian liberals they appointed an unrepentant softy as chief magistrate. She has a big hand in running the drug diversion court, the mental health list and the youth court. Our AG did a PHD on intergenerational crime so she's actually been pretty decent re this kind of stuff.

Thats the State Libs isn't it ? Changes to HoR cards would be Fed (which at this state is Abetz and his 4 friends since they lost every House seat lulz)

 

[bomma_man]

Thats the State Libs isn't it ? Changes to HoR cards would be Fed (which at this state is Abetz and his 4 friends since they lost every House seat lulz)

oh sure, yes, the federal Tasmanian Liberal party = Abetz.

 

[Yagharek]

They may be reprehensible theocrats whose political philosophy is predicated on the doctrinally problematic Dominion Theology (give unto Caesar etc), but there's no denying that they founded the party because they thought they were doing the Right Thing. These are misguided but well-meaning people who have been taken advantage of by a cynical huckster.

This situation gives me the strongest sense of deja vu for some reason.

I dont think being "well meaning" is a sufficient excuse for a political party built on bigotry. Family First and Day deserve one another. Fingers crossed One Nation finds a similar complete and utter cunt to destroy them, like Christensen.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I dont think being "well meaning" is a sufficient excuse for a political party built on bigotry. Family First and Day deserve one another. Fingers crossed One Nation finds a similar complete and utter cunt to destroy them, like Christensen.

Well meaning in that they have an ideology that they honestly believe has been handed down to them from on high and is therefore beyond question even when the results of carrying it out are demonstrably horrible. They legitimately believe that in carrying out their plans they can build a better society for everyone, which is more than can be said for certain other worldviews. Outlawing homosexuality and forcing gay people into religiously guided conversion therapy will work because, well, it has to, doesn't it?

Well meaning does not mean good, useful, wise or effective.

 

[Quasar]

Malcolm putting 18c changes back on the table.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-07/politics-live-november-7/7996664

He really will do anything to hang on to the PMs chair won't he. To think I once thought he was ok for a Liberal.

 

[bobnowhere]

Malcolm putting 18c changes back on the table.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-07/politics-live-november-7/7996664

He really will do anything to hang on to the PMs chair won't he. To think I once thought he was ok for a Liberal.

Malcolm is going full post-truth on this one.

I think the Human Rights Commission has done a great deal of harm to its credibility by bringing the case against the Queensland students.
- Sort of PM Turnbull

Except the HRC has absolutely no powers to make any judgements and can only hold a conciliation process. If that fails the plaintiff can go to the court system of there own accord, the HRC has no say in the matter.

There are some procedural issues with 18c that could be fixed by empowering the HRC instead of just blaming them.

 

[darkace]

Malcolm putting 18c changes back on the table.

Good. Fry that nonsense.

 

[xevis]

Today in News:

• Bob Day who resigned had un-resigned so he can vote on the ABCC and the plebiscite and now may stay for his complete term. Burn this weeks free article on The Saturday Paper if you want to check out what a nasty conman he truly is.
• Almost PM Turnbull has all of a sudden weakened his language on 18c and is willing to have a conversation.

Malcolm continues to disappoint. Seriously, what a shit PM. He doesn't stand behind any of his convictions. We might as well have Abbott. At least you knew where he stood.

 

[Aarglefarg]

 

[Shaneus]

You couldn't imagine this stuff, really.

 

[bobnowhere]

You couldn't imagine this stuff, really.

Don't worry, It's all gone bananas today:

• Dozy Lib. Scott Buchholz accidentally voted with the Labor Party to criticise the government over their handling of pensioners.
• Malcolm Roberts held a bizarre rambling press conference on the climate change conspiracy and how it's probably the Jews. The left when the press asked questions.
• Cullerton isn't sure if he's Jesus or Muhammad Ali. You can't be both. Also demands a jury trial.
• World class idiot Craig Kelly has linked the increase in child drownings to renewable energy. Then linked the increase in housing prices to the lack of backyard pools today. Interesting. Maybe if housing is so expensive no one can afford a pool no one will drown?

Still plenty of hours to go!

 

[Shaneus]

Don't worry, It's all gone bananas today:

• Dozy Lib. Scott Buchholz accidentally voted with the Labor Party to criticise the government over their handling of pensioners.
• Malcolm Roberts held a bizarre rambling press conference on the climate change conspiracy and how it's probably the Jews. The left when the press asked questions.
• Cullerton isn't sure if he's Jesus or Muhammad Ali. You can't be both. Also demands a jury trial.
• World class idiot Craig Kelly has linked the increase in child drownings to renewable energy. Then linked the increase in housing prices to the lack of backyard pools today. Interesting. Maybe if housing is so expensive no one can afford a pool no one will drown?

Still plenty of hours to go!

Wow, it's like they're building up to the US election so Aussie politicians still get media coverage while it's going on.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Why are we torturing the plebiscite like this ? Can't we just put it out of its misery ?

Good. Fry that nonsense.

Good luck. The numbers aren't there in the Senate for much beyond some minor tinkering. The best you could hope for is to add capacity for summary judgment (and the
HTC being able to refuse conciliation on that basis) based on a clear 18D defence (which would probably be a good thing admittedly, the use of the legal process as a punishment itself is ridiculous in general).

 

[darkace]

Good luck. The numbers aren't there in the Senate for much beyond some minor tinkering. The best you could hope for is to add capacity for summary judgment (and the
HTC being able to refuse conciliation on that basis) based on a clear 18D defence (which would probably be a good thing admittedly, the use of the legal process as a punishment itself is ridiculous in general).

The proposals from Abbott were nothing more than tinkering. They never tried to repeal it, regardless of their rhetoric. Which is also what I want to happen. You cannot legislate offence. You just can't. I'd hope the Senate would realise this and change the legislation as required.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Plebiscite murdered in cold blood. Now the question is of Labor can keep the parliamentary vote in the news for the next 2 years.

 

[Candescence]

Hinch is going after Tony Abbott, demanding proof that he isn't a dual citizen. Bit late to jump on that bandwagon, mate.

Latest Newspoll shows 53/47 in Labor's favor with them gaining one point. This is gonna make Lib backbenchers sweat.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Hinch is going after Tony Abbott, demanding proof that he isn't a dual citizen. Bit late to jump on that bandwagon, mate.

Latest Newspoll shows 53/47 in Labor's favor with them gaining one point. This is gonna make Lib backbenchers sweat.

Given the ideological balance of the backbench that's only likely to cause them to double down further.

 

[Candescence]

Still, it could easily be worrying for them if the Newspoll was conducted right after the whole "boat people ban" announcement, because that would mean that the traditional use of asylum seekers as political tools and scaremongering isn't working anymore.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Still, it could easily be worrying for them if the Newspoll was conducted right after the whole "boat people ban" announcement, because that would mean that the traditional use of asylum seekers as political tools and scaremongering isn't working anymore.

Oh, I agree it's worrying them I. I just strongly suspect they'll interpret it as having failed to be conservative enough despite that not being how 2PP works (at least until the Coalitions primary vote falls below 25%). .

 

[CrankyKong]

Do small business owners generally support the coalition?

 

[darkace]

Do small business owners generally support the coalition?

Yes. Heavily IIRC. I very vaguely recall Crikey having data showing that the largest correlation between job title and voting intentions was between managerial staff/SME owners and the LNP.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Do small business owners generally support the coalition?

Small Business is a ridiculously vague term which includes anything from the Self-Employed to turn overs in the millions of dollars. As a result its not a pure group. It's probably Coalition over all though, since once you get past the self-employed / contractors since small businesses aregenerally pro tax cuts for themselves, anti penalty rate and impressively uncaring about the public services they use.

Yes. Heavily IIRC. I very vaguely recall Crikey having data showing that the largest correlation between job title and voting intentions was between managerial staff/SME owners and the LNP.

The small business lobby groups sure as hell are , from a quick search. Like the Council of Small Businesses is close to indistinguishable from the BCA. I guess Self-Employed don't tend to title themselves as Small Business Owners ?

 

[CrankyKong]

Sounds good.
Gives me a nice excuse for not lifting a finger to support them.

 

[Candescence]

Oh, I agree it's worrying them I. I just strongly suspect they'll interpret it as having failed to be conservative enough despite that not being how 2PP works (at least until the Coalitions primary vote falls below 25%). .

Well, as Napoleon supposedly said, "never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake". The comparisons to the GOP become more apt by the day, really. It's gonna be interesting if the backbenchers doubling down on conservatism will either force Turnbull to accomodate them or make them chuck him out, neither of which would help their primary vote.

That being said, my main worry is Coalition voters who are defecting from them mainly moving over to One Nation instead of Labor or the Greens.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Sounds good.
Gives me a nice excuse for not lifting a finger to support them.

I probably wouldn't like blanket not support small businesses since small businesses aren't like 100% pro-Coalition. But if its a Small Business Lobby group and you don't want to support the Coalition , yeah its probably safe to avoid them.