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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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D

Dead Man

Member
Looks like it's confirmed:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...ea-as-clear-rights-breach-20140703-3bbi1.html

The United Nations has expressed ''profound concern'' over reports that Australia was poised to hand Sri Lankan asylum seekers back to the country's navy on Thursday after only the briefest refugee assessment.

For the first time, the Sri Lankan government confirmed that failed asylum seekers would be switched straight onto its navy ships at sea, even as the Australian government dug in on its hardline refusal to provide any information.

Fairfax Media confirmed that refugee assessments of the more than 200 Sri Lankans trying to reach Australia on two separate boats have been cut back to four questions, prompting dire warnings by international law experts that Australia risked breaching international obligations.

In a rare statement, the UN High Commission for Refugees said the organisation viewed ''with profound concern recent reports in the media and from the community in relation to the interception at sea of individuals who may be seeking Australia's protection''.

The organisation stressed that ''requests for international protection should be considered within the territory of the intercepting state, consistent with fundamental refugee-protection principles.

It added that asylum seekers should be ''properly and individually screened for protection needs'' through a ''through a substantive and fair refugee status determination procedure''.

Keheliya Rambukwella, Sri Lanka's Media and Information Minister, said a transfer at sea would take place. ''They will be accepted and received by the [Sri Lankan] navy and the normal procedures will take place from there onward,'' he said.
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F

Fredescu

Member
I don't know what you guys are complaining about, the papers say it's all cool.

EruIFFf.jpg
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A

Arksy

Member
Just being a bit terse here but I love how people are crying that it's a breach of our international obligations....as if the absence of such obligations would excuse the conduct.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Arksy said:
Just being a bit terse here but I love how people are crying that it's a breach of our international obligations....as if the absence of such obligations would excuse the conduct.
Click to expand...

I think it is the only argument that may hold any power over the government, and Labor for that matter, since they are utterly uninterested in the ethical or moral arguments.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
Arksy said:
Just being a bit terse here but I love how people are crying that it's a breach of our international obligations....as if the absence of such obligations would excuse the conduct.
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I see what youre getting at, but when Australia has a track record of being a roaring mouse when it comes to telling off other countries for not doing x, y or z, it's a salient reminder.

From the article Dead Man linked above:

For the first time, the Sri Lankan government confirmed that failed asylum seekers would be switched straight onto its navy ships at sea
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I hope there later comes evidence that the same number of people step off the boat when it returns to Sri Lanka.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Yagharek said:
I see what youre getting at, but when Australia has a track record of being a roaring mouse when it comes to telling off other countries for not doing x, y or z, it's a salient reminder.
Click to expand...

Yep, we used to hear complaints about eg China's human rights record from across the whole political spectrum. Not so much these days.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
Fredescu said:
Yep, we used to hear complaints about eg China's human rights record from across the whole political spectrum. Not so much these days.
Click to expand...

I'm watching Bill Shorten on tv right now and he is giving Australians a pat on the back for being a people who love a fair go, are egalitarian, and are genuinely helpful.

You know what? It's about time we got collectively a hard kick in the pants.

We are not egalitarian.
We do not support a fair go.
We do not get the big picture.

We have voted and worked ourselves into a lather over boat people.
We don't have any meaningful employment options for disabled people who can and want to work.
We dont seem to have any collective way to help indigenous communities beyond acting like patronising parents and pretending to know how easy it should be to fix things.

I think the drop in calibre of national politicians has co-incided with too many of them telling the country we are all good/she'll be right/pat yourself on the back.

And in response we have devolved our responsibilities as human beings to them, and let them deal with these issues "in the nation's interest", out of sight and out of mind.

Everyone in Australia needs to wake the fuck up.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Yagharek said:
We do not get the big picture.
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It comes down to this I think. And to be fair, the big picture is hard to get. It is not "common sense".

The majority of people are all those nice things he mentions, to a small amount of people, their family, friends, colleagues, neighbours.

The rules that work with your family though, rarely apply in the same way at the policy level.

Like the whole, you should tighten your belt in hard times, and therefore government should too. Or, if someone is out of work you should get them some volunteer work, and therefore the government should enforce work for the dole. There are mountains of evidence that neither of these things work to their stated ends, but they're a much easier sell.

"Good policy" frequently isn't "common sense", and it should be up to those people we put in charge of policy to educate us on what works. But pandering to fears is a much easier route to power. So little kids from war torn countries get sent to conditions worse than jail because it's much easier to use peoples pre existing "common sense" as a means toward a comfy retirement.
 
L

lexi

Banned
From that racist train rant bullshit said:
She said she wanted to offer a “public apology” but added: “I was called white trash earlier in the week so I know it’s not nice.
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No you don't know it's 'not nice'. This is the epitome of white Australian ignorance and is an ignorance that is shared by many people in this country, politicians included.

As a white person, being called 'white trash' is NOT THE SAME as an Asian being called a 'gook'. Check yo' fucking privilege.
 
D

Dastardly Jerks

Banned
Fredescu said:
I don't know what you guys are complaining about, the papers say it's all cool.
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This is officially the biggest "fuck off" I've muttered from reading a newspaper headline.

Murdoch media: "Please trust the guy who's been lying his head off so far".

All of Murdochs rags are going to look so fucking dumb after this whole government. I hope we as a society finally collectively learn from it.

... Doubt it, though.

Dead Man said:
Looks like it's confirmed:

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...ea-as-clear-rights-breach-20140703-3bbi1.html
Click to expand...

Thread time?
 
J

Jintor

Member
I wonder if it's a loss-leader like all the rest of his papers or not

I mean... it's a free paper, so they're not selling it, but they're also presumably not actually spending much money on it and they're pulling in ad rev, so... *shrug*
 
D

Dead Man

Member
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Ya' know, as horrible as Dick Cheney and his buddies were, I can't imagine them doing this. Sure, if he thought they were actual terrorists, absolutely. But, just random refugees? Dick Cheney and his ilk may not have wanted them around, but I don't think they'd send them back to the country that actually tortured them.
 
R

Rubixcuba

Banned
Disgusting and shameful.

On a slightly related note, is anyone going to the various Bust the Budget rallies on Sunday across the country ? Lee Rhiannon will be speaking at the Newcastle rally as well as our local Labor MP.
 
Y

Yagharek

Member
JesseEwiak said:
Ya' know, as horrible as Dick Cheney and his buddies were, I can't imagine them doing this. Sure, if he thought they were actual terrorists, absolutely. But, just random refugees? Dick Cheney and his ilk may not have wanted them around, but I don't think they'd send them back to the country that actually tortured them.
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They locked up and tortured people without charge. People who are still in detention in Guantanamo without ever having faced trial. Some of them may be not very nice people, but on balance of probabilities it is reasonable to assume some of them are also innocent.

So I would say that Dick Cheney and Co were certainly evil enough.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Apparently Lee Rhiannons source is a press release but she wants people to email her office for a copy. Anybody have a shortcut?

https://twitter.com/leerhiannon/status/484941237317672962

In other news:

AEC threatens to have FOI applicant declared vexatious – after two requests

The Australian Electoral Commission has radically escalated a battle for documents about Australia’s Senate voting system by threatening to have a freedom of information applicant who lodged just two requests for information declared a “vexatious applicant”.

In an extraordinary move the AEC’s chief legal officer, Paul Pirani, has said he will try to have Michael Cordover declared vexatious, saying Cordover “intended to harass” the commission with his requests for information.

Pirani also says he will refer to the information commissioner a third request from one of the founders of the Right to Know website, Matthew Landauer, arguing that the two “colluded” to harass the AEC.

Australia’s Senate voting system, which has come under heavy scrutiny owing to the results it produces arising from complex micro-party preferences, is shrouded in secrecy because the program that calculates them has not been made public.

When Cordover requested access to the software, the AEC refused access on the grounds it would reveal “trade secrets”. He then requested additional information related to his request but received a response from Pirani saying the AEC was applying to the information commissioner to bar him from making information requests.

“I will ask the Australian information commissioner to make a declaration ... [under the FOI Act] declaring you to be a vexatious applicant,” the letter said.

Cordover said he was “utterly stunned” by the move. “I’m really hopeful that the application won’t be successful. I think the information commissioner's office when I’ve dealt with them have been very useful and helpful.

“It’s not like I’ve engaged in huge amounts of correspondence with the AEC. I spoke to the responsible officer once on the telephone, and other than that all the correspondence appears on the website.”

Cordover crowdsourced funding to appeal against the rejection of his first request at the administrative appeals tribunal and will now have to stave off the AEC’s application to the information commissioner.

If the information commissioner declares someone a vexatious applicant, the government agency can ignore that person’s requests. But a high level of bad behaviour must be demonstrated, usually involving threats, abusive behaviour or huge numbers of information requests.

In 2011, while at the Institute of Public Affairs, Tim Wilson – later an Abbott government appointee as human rights commissioner – made 750 FOI requests to the department of climate change. The department warned the thinktank it could be declared vexatious and was roundly condemned for its heavy-handed approach.

Both Landauer and Cordover deny in any way colluding in lodging their requests, which can be seen on the Right to Know website.
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The Greens senator Lee Rhiannon said the AEC had taken “the wrong turn” in responding to the request, saying it was difficult to see any justification for the move.

“That’s a really hardline position … It’s potentially an abuse of the law and it really raises the question about what they are attempting to hide,” she said.

“I can’t see any evidence of harassment. The AEC has made an allegation, I can’t see how they would substantiate that.

"People have a right to ask questions. Why can’t the public know how the Senate vote is counted?”
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L

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
Rubixcuba said:
Disgusting and shameful.

On a slightly related note, is anyone going to the various Bust the Budget rallies on Sunday across the country ? Lee Rhiannon will be speaking at the Newcastle rally as well as our local Labor MP.
Click to expand...

Will be at the one in Melbourne, as per-usual. Don't think I've not attended a single bust the budget rally yet.
 
R

Rubixcuba

Banned
Lafiel said:
Will be at the one in Melbourne, as per-usual. Don't think I've not attended a single bust the budget rally yet.
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Its amazing how many rallies and protests there have been held across the nation since the election. We've had the March in March rallies, University/Education led rallies a month or two back and now these Bust the Budget rallies on Sunday.

I can't remember a time in which we have seen such public opposition to a sitting government.
 
D

Dastardly Jerks

Banned
Dead Man said:
But your hockey thread was fun. And why do a bunch of you have remixes of Acids av?
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Thanks!

Quick went overboard with photoshopping a bunch of players onto a template. We couldn't stop the snowball once it started tumblin' down the mountain. We didn't really fight it either.

I don't think I could succinctly put how much this government has fucked up leading up to the situation into a thread. Too much outrage. I'd start typing and then 20 seconds later be smashing my own keyboard, then start crying thinking about refugee kids with tuberculosis.
 
Y

Yrael

Member
When the thread is made about the asylum seekers, here are some other relevant links to include:

The Human Rights Law Centre's urgent letter to the UN: http://hrlc.org.au/urgent-un-intervention-sought-on-missing-sri-lankan-asylum-seekers/

Perspective from Daniel Webb of the Human Rights Legal Centre: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-02/lawyer-transfer-to-sri-lankan-navy-would-be/5566524

The UN's condemnation of the transfer of the refugees back to Sri Lanka: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ea-as-clear-rights-breach-20140703-3bbi1.html

Tony Abbott's bullshit response: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ded-over-to-countrys-navy-20140703-3b9qf.html
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Struggling for a title, any ideas that get the point across while not being too long or clumsy?

Yags suggestion (or a variation thereof) is winning so far: Refugees sent back to home country where they were tortured.

Rubixcuba said:
Its amazing how many rallies and protests there have been held across the nation since the election. We've had the March in March rallies, University/Education led rallies a month or two back and now these Bust the Budget rallies on Sunday.

I can't remember a time in which we have seen such public opposition to a sitting government.
Click to expand...
The one small glimmer of hope is the sustained anger at this government. Been to March, May, and will be going to July as well.
Dastardly Jerks said:
Thanks!

Quick went overboard with photoshopping a bunch of players onto a template. We couldn't stop the snowball once it started tumblin' down the mountain. We didn't really fight it either.

I don't think I could succinctly put how much this government has fucked up leading up to the situation into a thread. Too much outrage. I'd start typing and then 20 seconds later be smashing my own keyboard, then start crying thinking about refugee kids with tuberculosis.
Click to expand...
Hah, that's kind of funny. But I feel you on the thread and anger, it's why I'm taking my time lest it become incoherent vitriol.

Yrael said:
When the thread is made about the asylum seekers, here are some other relevant links to include:

The Human Rights Law Centre's urgent letter to the UN: http://hrlc.org.au/urgent-un-intervention-sought-on-missing-sri-lankan-asylum-seekers/

Perspective from Daniel Webb of the Human Rights Legal Centre: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-02/lawyer-transfer-to-sri-lankan-navy-would-be/5566524

The UN's condemnation of the transfer of the refugees back to Sri Lanka: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ea-as-clear-rights-breach-20140703-3bbi1.html

Tony Abbott's bullshit response: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...ded-over-to-countrys-navy-20140703-3b9qf.html
Click to expand...

Awesome, cheers :)
 
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