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[HowZatOZ]

I just figured we were more civilised that that. And that like abortion it was for the majority a settled issue.

I'm of the opinion that no one should be executed for anything, its inhumane and far below our civilised means. However, a country will create its laws on its own, and we can not dictate changes like we have been with the Bali Nine. They knew what the laws were like for Indonesia, its quite common knowledge that execution is used for drug smuggling.

In that sense, they did walk into the execution on their own will*. It is incredibly sad, but that is the country's law and we have to respect it. I'd love for death penalties to be abolished for most crimes (there are some that I still think require due to their nature), but that's for another discussion.

I don't really understand this argument. It's not like triple J commissioned the research. If Hack didn't publicise it would have been done elsewhere regardless.

Just people pulling straws to suit their agenda. As you said, it would have happened elsewhere and probably has.

 

[markot]

I don't really understand this argument. It's not like triple J commissioned the research. If Hack didn't publicise it would have been done elsewhere regardless.

Did hack commission it?????????

It is incredibly sad, but that is the country's law and we have to respect it. I

Nonsense.

 

[senahorse]

Heh, so apparently Triple J is to blame for the Bali Nine executions: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-...r-bali-nine-execution-campaigner-says/6072966

Ha, or you know, maybe it was the two idiots fault that decided to smuggle heroin out of a country with the death penalty.

 

[Dryk]

I far from support the death penalty, but I'd have to admit how I would answer that question would depend a lot of the crime, the phrasing of the question and how I was feeling that day.

Also they're passing the buck, they were never going to let them go. It sucks because by all accounts they've turned what lives they had around and were doing good work in that prison.

Fucking TPP. That piece of evilness makes me want to throw up.

Oh hey look it's some good old-fashioned intergenerational theft

 

[Jintor]

I can't decide which front to be more pissed off at the metadata laws for, the fact that they exist and are being pushed at all or the fact that the way it's worded it's actually supremely fucking ineffective at the thing it's ostensibly designed to do ('fight terror') but is super good at leaving people open to corporate crushing

 

[A More Normal Bird]

I can't decide which front to be more pissed off at the metadata laws for, the fact that they exist and are being pushed at all or the fact that the way it's worded it's actually supremely fucking ineffective at the thing it's ostensibly designed to do ('fight terror') but is super good at leaving people open to corporate crushing

But those goals are one and the same, don't you remember the anti-piracy warnings? Piracy funds terrorism. The pirates are out to get you, don't let them brand you with their mark.

 

[hidys]

I have to say my heart sank when I saw that most people support the death penalty in this country.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I have to say my heart sank when I saw that most people support the death penalty in this country.

They don't necessarily. They think that other countries that do should be able to use it on Australians. The answer to the question if we should have the death penalty is likely different.

 

[senahorse]

I have to say my heart sank when I saw that most people support the death penalty in this country.

I wouldn't say I support the death penalty, well maybe for paedophiles and the like (very dependant situations at the very least). However I don't have a great deal of sympathy for these guys. Having seen first hand what heroin can do to people (It has killed 2 people I grew up with), what these idiots were doing was going to ruin a lot of peoples lives. Not that I think an eye for an eye is the answer, but, you reap what you sow.

 

[mjontrix]

I have to say my heart sank when I saw that most people support the death penalty in this country.

The thing is that it's a very, very good deterrent - the only 'issue' is corruption/bribes preventing the people at the very top facing the firing squad.

The other issue is convicting innocent people - my solution would be that unless it's absolutely 100% certain that it was person A you don't get the death penalty. But that's my opinion on it.

Rather 99 guilty avoid the death penalty than one innocent receiving it.

 

[Jintor]

It has a 100% success rating*.

*among the executed, anyway

 

[manipulate]

The thing is that it's a very, very good deterrent - the only 'issue' is corruption/bribes preventing the people at the very top facing the firing squad.

The other issue is convicting innocent people - my solution would be that unless it's absolutely 100% certain that it was person A you don't get the death penalty. But that's my opinion on it.

Rather 99 guilty avoid the death penalty than one innocent receiving it.

Is this actually resolved?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Is this actually resolved?

Nope. Some research says yes, others say no. Building an uncontested statistical model seems to be the problem (different assumptions give different result, adding more detail tends toward no significant effect beyond random but the detail added may itself be an unconscious counterweigh) .

 

[bomma_man]

Nope. Some research says yes, others say no. Building an uncontested statistical model seems to be the problem (different assumptions give different result, adding more detail tends toward no significant effect beyond random but the detail added may itself be an unconscious counterweigh) .

Surely a simple comparison between crime rates in the US v Australia/Canada would demonstrate that it's no a silver bullet, if it has any effect at all. Poverty rates would be a stronger indicator.

 

[r1chard]

So, no spill yet. I get the feeling that it's just not going to happen at this rate, that Tone will stay in the hot seat, and all this noise has been entirely generated by the media. (I am shocked to say that)

 

[Fredescu]

I thought it wasn't going to happen until the 9th at the earliest since that's the first sitting day.

 

[Aarglefarg]

Sources have told News Corp Australia Mr Turnbull and Ms Bishop spoke via telephone yesterday about the party’s future leadership.

The current plan being discussed is that Mr Turnbull would present as a candidate for the leadership with Ms Bishop as his deputy.

http://www.news.com.au/national/jul...turnbulls-deputy/story-fncynjr2-1227209934875

 

[Fredescu]

http://www.news.com.au/national/jul...turnbulls-deputy/story-fncynjr2-1227209934875

Or to put it another way:

 

[Myansie]

Abbott's not the only poison in the well. It is extremely riskie to take the lead chair when the party is so far right. All of the Libs have gone on record saying the problem with their policies is poor communication. Over the weekend Turnbull talked about governing from closer to the centre and using detailed explanations. Which I agree with, but as has already been questioned in this thread, are the Libs beyond reasoning. Look how easily they have all forgotten the child care policy. That's a great vote winner, but it doesn't fit with their ideology.

 

[bomma_man]

So apparently Pyne called Albo a cunt on Today

 

[roosters93]

So apparently Pyne called Albo a cunt on Today

I just watched it here
He dun fucked up

 

[markot]

The thing is that it's a very, very good deterrent - the only 'issue' is corruption/bribes preventing the people at the very top facing the firing squad.

The other issue is convicting innocent people - my solution would be that unless it's absolutely 100% certain that it was person A you don't get the death penalty. But that's my opinion on it.

Rather 99 guilty avoid the death penalty than one innocent receiving it.

A: 100% certainty is impossible.
B: it isnt a good deterrent. Why is Indonesias drug problem getting worse?

 

[Shaneus]

I just watched it here
He dun fucked up

Holy shit. I just watched that now... could that put anything in terms of his career in jeopardy? Such an incredibly stupid thing to say on his part (though I can't say it's unexpected).

Did Albo nail the rest of the segment, though?

 

[markot]

I thought tuesday was a reference to the liberal party room meaning >.<

 

[senahorse]

I thought tuesday was a reference to the liberal party room meaning >.<

That's what I thought, that's the day of their first meeting isn't it?

 

[Shaneus]

That's what I thought, that's the day of their first meeting isn't it?

Might be, but it's also an incredibly well known colloquial term for "cunt". Could've just as easily said "See you in parliament next Tuesday" or anything similar.

And that vomit-inducing smirk after he said it. Ugh.

 

[Aarglefarg]

That's what I thought, that's the day of their first meeting isn't it?

It's both meanings.

 

[bomma_man]

Actually pretty clever tbf

 

[Elaugaufein]

Surely a simple comparison between crime rates in the US v Australia/Canada would demonstrate that it's no a silver bullet, if it has any effect at all. Poverty rates would be a stronger indicator.

Demonstrating that its effect isn't overwhelming is trivial (as you said), demonstrating that 1 execution does(n't( deter X amount of Y crime is much harder. Particularly since the results are likely to be somewhat counter intuitive to us, the crimes that are the ones most likely to be deterred by a death penalty are those unlikely to get it, since the crimes usually deemed worthy of the death penalty tend not to be rationally considered but crimes of passion or abnormal psyches (where the urge is essentially irresistable).

You also can't really compare Australian/Canada crime to the US since the former two tend to have better social safety nets and less of their population imprisoned.

 

[Dryk]

Christopher Pyne: Minister for Getting Away With Calling People Cunts on TV

 

[markot]

Ive never heard of it.

For you cant know.

 

[Shaneus]

Christopher Pyne: Minister for Getting Away With Calling People Cunts on TV

I don't think he got away with it. You even saw stupid people like Karl Stefanovic react to it.

 

[Dryk]

I don't think he got away with it. You even saw stupid people like Karl Stefanovic react to it.

He'll play the plausible deniability card like he did in parliament. Watch.

 

[senahorse]

Might be, but it's also an incredibly well known colloquial term for "cunt". Could've just as easily said "See you in parliament next Tuesday" or anything similar.

And that vomit-inducing smirk after he said it. Ugh.

It's both meanings.

Fair enough, I have never heard it before, but a bit of googling shows I am once again out of touch with pop culture

 

[bomma_man]

Demonstrating that its effect isn't overwhelming is trivial (as you said), demonstrating that 1 execution does(n't( deter X amount of Y crime is much harder. Particularly since the results are likely to be somewhat counter intuitive to us, the crimes that are the ones most likely to be deterred by a death penalty are those unlikely to get it, since the crimes usually deemed worthy of the death penalty tend not to be rationally considered but crimes of passion or abnormal psyches (where the urge is essentially irresistable).

You also can't really compare Australian/Canada crime to the US since the former two tend to have better social safety nets and less of their population imprisoned.

Yes, all true. As you point out though in your second paragraph there are much better ways of reducing crime, regardless of the effect of the death penalty.

 

[HowZatOZ]

Never really heard the see you next tuesday thing as a meaning for cunt, but I don't really keep up with the fandangled new sayings. I replayed it a few times wondering where he said cunt and it wasn't until you folks spelled it out that I realised. Honestly thought it was just in regards to the Tuesday speculation.

Still, Albo got a good one in with jiving at a new prime minister by next week.

Yes, all true. As you point out though in your second paragraph there are much better ways of reducing crime, regardless of the effect of the death penalty.

As I said above, I think the case with Indonesia and the Bali Nine is that it is their country, and we have no right to go demanding changes to laws that are not ours. Yes the death penalty in my opinion should be very, very selective on when to be used (mostly rapists/paedophile cases), but we can't simply expect petitions and campaigning will suddenly deter a country from doing what they've been doing for quite some time now. That isn't to say we should stop, just that those expectations are a bit ludicrous.

 

[bobnowhere]

I thought the last few days had calmed down speculation, but:

WA MP Luke Simpkins will move a motion for a spill.

I wouldn't be surprised if Abbott runs unopposed, but it is a deathblow.

To quote a famous political scientist, It's on like Donkey Kong.

 

[Elaugaufein]

I'm betting Labor are torn between praying that Abbott survives (he's his own opposition) and that he doesn't (makes the Liberal party look bad).

 

[Rubixcuba]

I wonder how it would look if Abbott ran unopposed? Be similar to when Simon Crean bought on the spill in labor then Rudd didn't contest. Hmm, all very interesting, Tuesday will be fun.

 

[hidys]

I'm betting Labor are torn between praying that Abbott survives (he's his own opposition) and that he doesn't (makes the Liberal party look bad).

Well NSW definitely wants Abbott in the job because they have an election soon.

I wonder how it would look if Abbott ran unopposed? Be similar to when Simon Crean bought on the spill in labor then Rudd didn't contest. Hmm, all very interesting, Tuesday will be fun.

It won't be that bad because no one will have to resign over this.

 

[Rubixcuba]

It won't be that bad because no one will have to resign over this.

Good point. Couldn't see the media dropping the issue however, or Labor letting up.

Barry Cassidy made an interesting observation today on ABC Breakfast. Stated that if Turnbull or Bishop became PM that there would likely be an election by the middle of the year. Crazy stuff!

 

[Shaneus]

Fair enough, I have never heard it before, but a bit of googling shows I am once again out of touch with pop culture

To be fair, I hadn't heard of it for most of my life either, until Grant Denyer copped shit for saying it on Dancing With the Stars or something. Surprised you didn't remember that (although I didn't think it happened as long ago as 2007 :/)

 

[Fredescu]

There was a GAF username that referenced that acronym: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/member.php?u=64855

Barry Cassidy made an interesting observation today on ABC Breakfast. Stated that if Turnbull or Bishop became PM that there would likely be an election by the middle of the year. Crazy stuff!

Why would that be?

 

[wonzo]

@LisaVisentin
Luke Simpkins once told Parl "Australians unwittingly eating Halal food...are all one step down the path towards the conversion" #libspill

straya

 

[hidys]

straya

Well the man who seconded the motion is at least witty and clever

Ladies and Gentlemen the Liberal Party of Australia.

 

[roosters93]

Well the man who seconded the motion is at least witty and clever

Ladies and Gentlemen the Liberal Party of Australia.

this kinda shit should be a sackable offense shouldn't it

 

[Rubixcuba]

Why would that be?

Crazy in terms of how this government has capitulated. An election would need to be held within a fairly narrow timespan after a leadership change in order to claim some kind of legitimacy from the public but the sheer speed in which this has all escalated is what I mean by 'crazy stuff'.

 

[D.Lo]

.

 

[Fredescu]

Crazy in terms of how this government has capitulated. An election would need to be held within a fairly narrow timespan after a leadership change in order to claim some kind of legitimacy from the public but the sheer speed in which this has all escalated is what I mean by 'crazy stuff'.

Yeah I mean why the early election would be held. I wasn't asking you to justify calling it crazy, which I definitely agree with.

 

[Mr. Tone]

It's like Christmas

MEMBER for New England Barnaby Joyce has warned the Nationals may walk away from the Coalition in the wake of an upcoming spill next Tuesday
...
When questioned whether Mr Joyce was still willing to bet his Tamworth house on Mr Abbott leading the Coalition to the next election, Mr Joyce demurred and said his initial bet was the public would not be speaking about Prince Philip at the next election, and it was 7.30's Leigh Sales who had upped the stakes.