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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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D.Lo

Member
Their policies certainly reflect the fact that want to gut our health system, our education, our rights at work and Turnbull has stood behind all of this.

#yesallliberals
Just like Penny Wong stood behind Labor's anti gay marriage stance. You do that when in Cabinet sometimes.

Turnbull has a well-reasoned position on everything I've ever read/heard him on. I don't agree with them all, but he's an intelligent man successful outside of politics (unlike so many of in both Labor and the Libs, e.g. Shorten and Pyne, who have absolutely no non-union/politics experience at all), the best communicator in the current parliament, and has a broad and nuanced vision for the country.
 

markot

Banned
Just like Penny Wong stood behind Labor's anti gay marriage stance. You do that when in Cabinet sometimes.

Turnbull has a well-reasoned position on everything I've ever read/heard him on. I don't agree with them all, but he's an intelligent man successful outside of politics (unlike so many of in both Labor and the Libs, e.g. Shorten and Pyne, who have absolutely no non-union/politics experience at all), the best communicator in the current parliament, and has a broad and nuanced vision for the country.

Yes. Turnbull is one of the few lawyers in politics.

I cant think of many others.
 

hidys

Member
Just like Penny Wong stood behind Labor's anti gay marriage stance. You do that when in Cabinet sometimes.

Turnbull has a well-reasoned position on everything I've ever read/heard him on. I don't agree with them all, but he's an intelligent man successful outside of politics (unlike so many of in both Labor and the Libs, e.g. Shorten and Pyne, who have absolutely no non-union/politics experience at all), the best communicator in the current parliament, and has a broad and nuanced vision for the country.


Turnbull roundly condemns Kevin Rudd’s post–global financial crisis reminder about the pivotal role of government action at this time of upheaval, and in defence of the social democratic tradition. Rather implausibly, Turnbull blames “big government” – the home mortgage practices of the state-owned companies, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – and not “market fundamentalism” for the implosion of the US financial sector.

http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2012/april/1337744204/robert-manne/one-morning-malcolm

On economic matters the man is pretty much standard LNP.
 

markot

Banned
That's not even a quote, it'a a paraphrase without any context, and even then the tiny piece of information put across is at least partially true - state owned companies started the crisis.

I've read the article, he comes across very well.
No. Deregulation started it.
 
Progressives who like Turnbull like him for his personality and are ignorant of his divergent ideology.

Shorten is still a shit leader who stands for nothing and personally caused Labor's current woes by being one of the ones who orchestrated the coup.

I'd be tempted to vote for Turnbull libs over Shorten Labor. He deserves punishment for his actions.

It's been 5 years, you need to get over it.
The idea of "punishing" Shorten (which unless you live in his electorate is doing almost anything but) and voting for a completely different political party comes across as an immature approach to voting to me.

The results speak for themselves. A government who saved Australia from the GFC was not returned (limped into minority government). They did a terrible job of it yes, it was a massive massive blunder.

Surviving the GFC was never going to be enough, most Australians don't respect economics. (exhibit a: the howard years)
That they got one thing (albeit a hugely important thing) right doesn't excuse them from everything else Rudd and co fucked up at the time.


A QLD election working out all fine and dandy just wouldn't be a QLD election now would it? explained. :p

If you're actually interested to know what Turnbull thinks, give this a read: http://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2012/april/1337744204/robert-manne/one-morning-malcolm

Thanks for posting, was a good read. Though in his second last paragraph Manne says the following:

Turnbull has excelled in his own portfolio, too. Last August, at the National Press Club, he delivered a technically complex and highly sophisticated critique of the Labor Government’s plan for the nationwide delivery of fast-speed broadband, along with a practical, apparently well thought-out alternative.

Which makes me think perhaps he shouldn't talk about communications again.
 
Yeah, I still haven't forgiven Turnbull for making the NBN a worthless pile of garbage. And I'm really not convinced that he's not just another blind follower of Reaganomics.

And yes, both parties tend to be pretty bad, they've both drunk from the neoliberal kool-aid. This shit is why I actually joined the Australian Progessives, who actually seem to know what they're doing and actually have a name that isn't an instant turn-off for a good chunk of the electorate (perhaps a smaller chunk, but we're obviously not aiming for the hard right. No, we don't have a robust policy set yet, but constructing evidence-based policy takes time.
 

hidys

Member
That's not even a quote, it'a a paraphrase without any context, and even then the tiny piece of information put across is at least partially true - state owned companies started the crisis.

I've read the article, he comes across very well.

No it's not a quote that's true, it's Robert Manne paraphrasing from an interview. There is absolutely no truth to that at all. Both Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac engaged in the same practices (and to a far lesser extent) than the private banks in terms of Sub-Prime lending. The idea that it was 'big government' that started the crisis is just absurd. And given that he's one of those people who seems to think stimulus doesn't work that would be very worrying if Australia had a recession on his watch.

If you aren't a Keynesian you aren't fit to govern.

I agree that he actually comes across as okay in most of the article, because most of the article talks about social issues and is cleanly a small-l liberal on that front. It's his economics I have a problem with and every time he opens his mouth on that subject it always right-wing drivel. Okay I guess he just a little about inequality, but fuck so does Rupert Murdoch and he's not doing shit about it.

Let's not forget that it was in November of 2009 when he agreed to a piss-poor CPRS scheme that would have ensured over a billion dollars would have gone to electricity generation.

Yeah, I still haven't forgiven Turnbull for making the NBN a worthless pile of garbage. And I'm really not convinced that he's not just another blind follower of Reaganomics.

That too.
 

Dryk

Member
And yes, both parties tend to be pretty bad, they've both drunk from the neoliberal kool-aid. This shit is why I actually joined the Australian Progessives, who actually seem to know what they're doing and actually have a name that isn't an instant turn-off for a good chunk of the electorate (perhaps a smaller chunk, but we're obviously not aiming for the hard right. No, we don't have a robust policy set yet, but constructing evidence-based policy takes time.
Tell me more. I'm in the market for a new micro-party to casually follow after the Secular Party started posting anti-Islam shit on their Facebook page.
 
And it looks like the comedy is continuing!

Adam Giles, the LNP leader in the NT has been reportedly dumped and replaced by the fantastically named Willem Westra van Holthe. Less than a year since his own extraordinarily cowardly coup!

Funny how it's only the Labor party that knifes sitting leaders.

Edit: Looks to be official: ABC News. Amazing timing, bet Abbott is tearing his "hair" out!
 
Tell me more. I'm in the market for a new micro-party to casually follow after the Secular Party started posting anti-Islam shit on their Facebook page.

http://www.australianprogressives.org.au/
https://www.facebook.com/AusProgressive
https://twitter.com/AusProgressive
https://www.reddit.com/r/ausprogressive/

The most action occurs on the Facebook page, the guys are constantly promoting other posts and asking good questions to followers. They're also working on evaluating options and researching for a non-neoliberal economic policy.
 

DrSlek

Member
Koshy asks the same question to Abbott 3 times. "Did you ask Julie Bishop not to challenge your leadership and did she refuse?"

Abbott refused to answer the question. Clumsily dancing around it. "Aw Koshy, you know as well as I do that the Australian people aren't interested in back room politics".

How telling...
 

Dead Man

Member
Govt admits Australians can sidestep mandatory metadata retention

Transcript:

It seems there's a new messaging app every week, but while they all work slightly differently from each other, they all have one thing in common.

They're all from overseas, and they're all operated by foreign companies.

As such, according to the Attorney-General's Department, the services won't be included under the nation's proposed metadata retention scheme.

SCOTT LUDLAM: So if my email account is an @iinet.net.au address, it will be within scope. And if my email is an @gmail.com, it'll be out of scope.

WILL OCKENDEN: That's Greens Senator Scott Ludlam, who was quizzing the Attorney-General's Department as part of a review by a Senate Committee of the Telecommunications Interception and Access Act.

SCOTT LUDLAM: All I need to do to avoid mandatory data retention is just to take a webmail service.

WILL OCKENDEN: Webmail includes services like Gmail, Hotmail or Yahoo.

Anna Harmer is from the Attorney-General's Department.

ANNA HARMER: I don't know that it's quite as simple as that for the reasons that I set out previously in relation to the Telecommunications Services.

SCOTT LUDLAM: Why is it more complex than that? If I use a cloud hosting provider or Gchat, or something like that, I won't be caught.

If I use an iinet or an Internode address, I will be caught. If it's more complex, please explain how it's more complex.

ANNA HARMER: So it's correct that iinet, Internode as an Australian carrier service provider, depending on which part of the entity you're using, is subject to the obligations.

Gmail itself, or Google as an entity, is not subject to the obligations. So that is in relation to the provision of the email service.

WILL OCKENDEN: Because services like Gmail use encryption for users who send mail via the web browser, it makes it very hard for authorities to know who is talking to who.

Which is a pity for the metadata retention scheme, as that is the entire point of it.

SCOTT LUDLAM: Are you trying to drive people away from Australian service providers?

ANNA HARMER: I think we've articulated the intent of the bill and the Government's articulated the intent of the bill in terms of its coverage.

SCOTT LUDLAM: Is that an unintended consequence, that you will be driving people away from Australian service providers?

ANNA HARMER: No, no Senator.

SCOTT LUDLAM: It's intended?

ANNA HARMER: I wouldn't frame it in those terms, Senator. I think, you know, the Government has made it clear that the obligation applies in relation to service providers who maintain their business and their infrastructure here in Australia.

WILL OCKENDEN: It's not to say the data can't be obtained by police, they can still subpoena the companies for data.

But they won't be able to easily ask Australian ISPs for the information that they want under the current system of warrantless metadata requests.

So how much is this whole scheme costing? Well, the Attorney-General's Department also told the inquiry that it doesn't know if Parliament will be told the final cost of the metadata retention scheme before the legislation is voted on.

And it also confirmed that data stored by telecommunications companies under the scheme would be accessible via litigation.

ANNA HARMER: So what will exist, yes, will be a range of data that is not necessarily retained for that same period at the moment.

So some data which is retained for a brief period will now be retained for longer.

SCOTT LUDLAM: That's right. Which will be quite useful, actually, if you're a rights holder and you're trying to find out who's downloading your stuff.

WILL OCKENDEN: Many expected the Attorney-General's Department to take that position, but it does mean that third parties will be able to use the metadata for their own purposes.

That could include Hollywood studios tracking down people who are suspected of file sharing.
 

Myansie

Member
So this whole expensive data retention policy completely fails at allowing us to monitor bad people's communication.

But, it's really good for foreign mega corporations who want to track 15 year olds watching their movies.

And they refuse to tell us how much it is going to cost.

No wonder no one trusts them.
 

Dead Man

Member
So this whole expensive data retention policy completely fails at allowing us to monitor bad people's communication.

But, it's really good for foreign mega corporations who want to track 15 year olds watching their movies.

And they refuse to tell us how much it is going to cost.

No wonder no one trusts them.

Pretty much.
 

Myansie

Member
The one positive to come out of the Royal Commission into Gillard's love life is the break in protocol keeping the cabinet minutes confidential. Finding out what the real motivation is for their policy decisions is going to be a real clusterfuck for conservatives.
 

Quasar

Member
Well that's way weaker than I expected. At that simplicity level one wonders why they even bother.

I mean for instance...basically every android user in the country has a gmail.com email address.

I thought I'd at least need to use a VPN.

This is just hilarious.
 

wonzo

Banned
B84tcoHCMAAbNUz.jpg:large
 
So under Labor, lower unemployment, lower level of debt, emergency level interest rates.
Hockey: " Labor are the worst government in the history of the universe."

Now, higher unemployment, higher debt, even lower than emergency level interest rates.
Hockey: "I'm an economic genius!"

Next he'll claim he depressed the economy deliberately to lower inflation causing the RBA to lower interest rates and that he has also lowered petrol prices. Oh wait, he did.
 
And it looks like the comedy is continuing!

Adam Giles, the LNP leader in the NT has been reportedly dumped and replaced by the fantastically named Willem Westra van Holthe. Less than a year since his own extraordinarily cowardly coup!

Funny how it's only the Labor party that knifes sitting leaders.

Edit: Looks to be official: ABC News. Amazing timing, bet Abbott is tearing his "hair" out!
Giles says he ain't quitting. It's going to be a bloodbath.
 

hidys

Member
I'd just like to point out that NT Liberals are now on the same level of leaders as NSW Labor were in their last term and this is their FIRST term of government.
 
The sad thing about the meta data retention scheme is that you can basically bet your bottom dollar Labor will support it anyway, out of a mixture of lust for power that will soon pass to them and terror over being wedged. It's a special kind of pathetic.
 

Myansie

Member
Yep, that and the news that the Chinese poured in close to a million dollars into Labor's 2013 campaign make the thought of a Syriza style party appearing seem reasonable.

Hopefully it triggers some positive debate about publicly funded elections. Nothing scares conservatives more than non white foreigners.
 
As far as it goes the polling I've seen says she can basically win it just by offering herself as a candidate if a spill is called. She doesn't have to do anything else. Kind of like Labor's Opposition Strategy so far. Tony basically conducts a 24/7 campaign for anyone even potentially opposed to him (people ahead of Tony for LNP leader ship include "Someone else").
 

Jintor

Member
So NT's LNP minister got rousted in a coup. Or didn't get rousted in a coup because the renagades lacked the numbers. or something. who the fuck even knows
 

Salazar

Member
I love Tony's argument that anyone who lunges at him will be betraying the Australian people and offending against a great popular will for him to be PM.

Mate, you're not loved. Real affection for a PM isn't a common thing, and you shouldn't feel too bad about not getting to that level, but you're not even fuckin close.
 

You can safely ignore the 'Progressives'. They're actually just an attempt to reboot the Democrats in disguise, and they used to be called New Choice, and to boot, they're floundering, barely more than 100 members by their own admission. The Australian Progressives have already gotten the membership numbers they need to actually sign up as a political party with the AEC, and once they get that approved, AEC rules basically state that the 'New Choice's new name has basically already been taken, because it's too similar to the Australian Progressives.

Comparison:
'Progressives/New Choice' (TPP): 'Center' party that is basically the Democrats in disguise (not progressive), nowhere near able to sign up to the AEC, only able to whinge about possible voter confusion that won't be an issue once the AEC forces one of the parties to change its name
Australian Progressives (TAP): Refuses to define itself on the political spectrum and champions evidence-based policy instead (which is actually progressive), though obviously more 'left' on moral issues, actually in the process of signing up with the AEC as a legitimate political party
 
So NT's LNP minister got rousted in a coup. Or didn't get rousted in a coup because the renagades lacked the numbers. or something. who the fuck even knows

From what I can tell, in August-ish 2012 the CLP (Country Liberal Party) swept into power partly due to fed labor and a smart yet completely disingenuous campaign to flip all the outback indigineous dominated seats to them. By March 2013, when Mills the leader was out of the country and couldn't vote, Giles launched a coup and won. Mills comes back and is all like WTF??? Giles bumbles on with rumblings against his leadership to about a month or two ago when the Police Commissioner resigns due to shenanigans.

Rumblings now get stronger and last night Giles is rolled by Von Holthe 8-6 or so and then turned up to get sworn in this morning, but Giles decided not to sign he resignation form and they couldn't make him. So swearing in ceremony cancelled. Giles claims it's a police coup and the 6 that voted for him wouldn't support the CLP and Von Holthe in a confidence motion on the floor so no point in changing leaders. Right now, who the hell knows what is going on!

looks like the spill is on

Yep Jensen first to throw Abbott under the bus. Said he was happy with Turnbull but not Carbon taxes! Dr. Jensen, the only actual scientist in the Fed LNP, as far as I'm aware, is a rabid climate change denier in the vein of Screaming Lord* Monckton.

Warren Entsh also calling for Turnbull, seems like QLD is the hotbed for the spill.




* Not a real lord no matter how much he pretends to be.
 

Jintor

Member
It's increasingly apparent that there is actually nobody sub-editing online Fairfax stuff. Nobody at all.

Not even the kiwis? That's where all those subediting jobs supposedly went when I graduated my media degree and couldn't find a job!*

*to be fair I didn't bother looking for a job bcos i still had 2 years of law left but still
 
Weren't the Democrats pretty good? they were a bit before my time

Jensen seems to be constantly be an outlier, speaking publicly with differing views so I'm waiting for someone else lol
 

Quasar

Member
Weren't the Democrats pretty good? they were a bit before my time

They were. Then they pretty much died once they sided with Howard to get the GST through. Or at least thats my vague memory of them.

Certainly that's when I switched from voting democrat in the senate to green.
 
The woman who started New Choice actually had the task of trying to revive the Democrats before, so it makes sense that she'd try to reboot the party under a new brand, but changing from New Choice to Progressives is an incredibly disingenuous move, seeing as they're a 'center' party and not actually progressive.

I wasn't old enough to properly remember the Democrats, but I do hear there were a decent bunch until they self-destructed by supporting the GST.
 

markot

Banned
Adam Giles to stay on as Chief Minister, but with Willem Westra van Holthe as his deputy, ABC24 says.

^________________~

wat

NT is amazing.


The democrats were never going to survive. Their job was 'keeping the bastards honest'. Thats not a political ideology a party can survive on.
 
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