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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?

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J

jey_16

Banned
So Treasury and the finance department have basically denied even looking at the coalitions coatings so the the 10b hole (which could still be true) doesn't actually have a proper source....makes Labor look like idiots.

I can't believe it, they are actually handing this to Abbot on a platter, I know a lot of people say its not going to be that bad but I am worried about the long term implications of an Abbot led government....I have not heard a single policy they have released that I like, they all just seem to favour the wealthy
 
D

Dead Man

Member
jey_16 said:
So Treasury and the finance department have basically denied even looking at the coalitions coatings so the the 10b hole (which could still be true) doesn't actually have a proper source....makes Labor look like idiots.

I can't believe it, they are actually handing this to Abbot on a platter, I know a lot of people say its not going to be that bad but I am worried about the long term implications of an Abbot led government....I have not heard a single policy they have released that I like, they all just seem to favour the wealthy
Click to expand...

That's because they do.
 
B

bobnowhere

Member
jey_16 said:
So Treasury and the finance department have basically denied even looking at the coalitions coatings so the the 10b hole (which could still be true) doesn't actually have a proper source....makes Labor look like idiots.

I can't believe it, they are actually handing this to Abbot on a platter, I know a lot of people say its not going to be that bad but I am worried about the long term implications of an Abbot led government....I have not heard a single policy they have released that I like, they all just seem to favour the wealthy
Click to expand...

Government always reminds me of that one Midnight Oil Song:

"The rich get richer,
The poor get the picture,
The Bombs don't hit when your down so low."
 
B

bomma_man

Member
x3n05 said:
Which begs the question, why are some of the poorer areas favouring TA?
Click to expand...

-right wing media saturation
-social issues
-asylum seekers (read as: dey took our jibs)
-"they can't be as bad as the others" fallacy
-fear campaign tapping into economic ignorance (debt and deficit bullshit)
-"we were good under Howard therefore it'll be good under Abbott"
 
S

senahorse

Member
All good points and the question was relatively a naive one. Wonder what they will be saying when they start seeing less money in their take home pay.
 
W

wonzo

Banned
x3n05 said:
Which begs the question, why are some of the poorer areas favouring TA?
Click to expand...
Because Abbott's basically DLPer with a big fukken checkbook filled to the brim with government welfare (until the second term when it all goes pear shaped).
 
M

markot

Banned
When you don't get it it's welfare for bludgers.

When you get it, it's just rewards.

Just look at the USA . Poor white people love republicans, even though their policies are so dreadful to them.
 
V

Ventron

Member
Dead Man said:
People are not educated, and don't know how to be educated on things. So ignorance wins.
Click to expand...

Again with this Reddit-style arrogance that everyone will vote the same way as me if only they weren't so dumb. DIfferences of opinion is not being uneducated, and it's rather uneducated of you to say otherwise.
 
R

r1chard

Member
GAF is currently showing Liberal ads "Labor has failed" ... School Halls (wtf), Border Protection, Pink Batts (fucking seriously), Super Profits Tax, FBT, Debt (fffffuuuuuu)....

So yeah, that's the platform they're pushing.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
Ventron said:
DIfferences of opinion is not being uneducated, and it's rather uneducated of you to say otherwise.
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It's naive to suggest that all differences of opinion are informed. We're not talking about 100% of voters here, no doubt the 30% or so rusted ons on both sides have their ideological differences. If all the changing voters are based on an well researched and educated viewpoint, why did Labor's vote jump 10% when all they changed was their leader? I can't believe you can look at either side of this campaign and argue that either is trying to appeal to intelligence.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Ventron said:
Again with this Reddit-style arrogance that everyone will vote the same way as me if only they weren't so dumb. DIfferences of opinion is not being uneducated, and it's rather uneducated of you to say otherwise.
Click to expand...

Fuck off with the reddit bullshit. When people will be worse off under a government and they don't realise it and still vote for that government, that is not arrogance on my part. I already said I don't hate that people vote for the Libs, I hate WHY they vote for them.

The mass of voters are not informed about what each party plans and has done. That is indisputable.

If you can show otherwise, I'm ready for it. Until then, fuck all the parties that work on the ignorance of voters.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
Ventron said:
Again with this Reddit-style arrogance that everyone will vote the same way as me if only they weren't so dumb. DIfferences of opinion is not being uneducated, and it's rather uneducated of you to say otherwise.
Click to expand...

Read the letters to the editor in a Murdoch paper and tell me this is true. Bonus points if someone compares the national budget to that of a household's, and if someone refers to 'illegal immigrants'. The parties and the media intentionally decieve the public on these issues for their own gain, and the education system is grossly deficient at teaching social (ie economics, sociology, the law, history) matters. Imagine the difference in public economic discourse if high school kids were taught Keynsian economics.
 
C

CrazedProfessional

Member
Ventron said:
Again with this Reddit-style arrogance that everyone will vote the same way as me if only they weren't so dumb. DIfferences of opinion is not being uneducated, and it's rather uneducated of you to say otherwise.
Click to expand...

Can you tell us why Tony Abbott would be a better Prime Minister in an educated fashion? Because the comments section on News.com.au fails to do so, oh enlightened one.
 
V

Ventron

Member
Dead Man said:
Fuck off with the reddit bullshit. When people will be worse off under a government and they don't realise it and still vote for that government, that is not arrogance on my part. I already said I don't hate that people vote for the Libs, I hate WHY they vote for them.

The mass of voters are not informed about what each party plans and has done. That is indisputable.

If you can show otherwise, I'm ready for it. Until then, fuck all the parties that work on the ignorance of voters.
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is that we need to be careful not to confuse "I agree with what they did vs I disagree with what they did" with "Educated vs Uneducated". The government always has plenty of opportunities to get its message out (remember the TV address about the Carbon Tax?), it's still up to each individual whether they listen.

You're entitled to hate a reason why someone votes for a certain party, but the voters of Western Sydney are entitled to like those reasons. You can say that they'd be worse off, but the voters of Western Sydney may have different goals in life and thus a different opinion on what it means to be "worse off". If it was truly about being "uneducated" they'd donkey vote or informally vote.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
Ventron said:
All I'm saying is that we need to be careful not to confuse "I agree with what they did vs I disagree with what they did" with "Educated vs Uneducated". The government always has plenty of opportunities to get its message out (remember the TV address about the Carbon Tax?), it's still up to each individual whether they listen.

You're entitled to hate a reason why someone votes for a certain party, but the voters of Western Sydney are entitled to like those reasons. You can say that they'd be worse off, but the voters of Western Sydney may have different goals in life and thus a different opinion on what it means to be "worse off". If it was truly about being "uneducated" they'd donkey vote or informally vote.
Click to expand...

But so many things that people base their votes on, including - as mentioned above - 'illegal immigrants' and debt scares, are factually wrong. They are by definition uneducated on these issues, and are thus likely to draw the wrong conclusions about them. This is why - along with a decent education - a diversity of views among the media and political parties is so important. Without it assumptions can go unchallenged.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
Ventron said:
Again with this Reddit-style arrogance that everyone will vote the same way as me if only they weren't so dumb. DIfferences of opinion is not being uneducated, and it's rather uneducated of you to say otherwise.
Click to expand...

No offence but judging by your earlier posts about media bias I think you are (blissfully?) unaware as to how distorted most political discourse in this country is. I feel quite confident in stating that the vast majority of people voting Coalition this election because of their perceived edge in economic management are misinformed, and I'd reckon that the rusted on ideologues on both sides would be misinformed on a fair few issues as well.
 
R

Ruthless_Barbarian

Member
Everyone I know who's preferring to vote Lib has the same reason: Labor has fucked up the economy.

When asked why, and how, they seem to have no idea except, "Go watch the news, it says so".
 
M

magenta

Member
DeathJr said:
Everyone I know who's preferring to vote Lib has the same reason: Labor has fucked up the economy.

When asked why, and how, they seem to have no idea except, "Go watch the news, it says so".
Click to expand...

Ugh. The economy is not going backwards (could be better but were not Europe), it is just not doing gangbusters like the Howard years that they are used to.
 
D

DualShadow

Member
DeathJr said:
Everyone I know who's preferring to vote Lib has the same reason: Labor has fucked up the economy.

When asked why, and how, they seem to have no idea except, "Go watch the news, it says so".
Click to expand...

I've had the same experience, when people say they're voting Lib I always just why to see what they say, most the time it's "Labor fucked everything up". When I ask how and for any details they never have an answer.
 
V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
This is the other side of the coin when it comes to mandatory voting. By virtue of the act, you pull in a lot of disengaged voters, many of whom vote based on half remembered things they heard on the news and only the vaguest notions of how government policies affect their lives. It's no surprise that these people, when asked about the issues, get them completely muddled.

There are people, for instance, who vote in federal elections that form their opinions based on stuff the state government is responsible for and vice versa.

This stuff really needs to be taught in schools.
 
W

wonzo

Banned
viciouskillersquirrel said:
This is the other side of the coin when it comes to mandatory voting. By virtue of the act, you pull in a lot of disengaged voters, many of whom vote based on half remembered things they heard on the news and only the vaguest notions of how government policies affect their lives. It's no surprise that these people, when asked about the issues, get them completely muddled.

There are people, for instance, who vote in federal elections that form their opinions based on stuff the state government is responsible for and vice versa.

This stuff really needs to be taught in schools.
Click to expand...
Yeah, general ignorance on actual policy and the like is something seen on all sides of politics. Education really does need a fundamental rethink in this country.
 
V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
wonzo said:
Yeah, general ignorance on actual policy and the like is something seen on all sides of politics. Education really does need a fundamental rethink in this country.
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I don't know if it's better now, but everything I learned about parliamentary democracy and the Westminster system, apart from the name, I learned from the Internet.

Plus, even if you fixed civics education Australia-wide tomorrow, it would literally be decades before you ever saw the benefit*. For many adults, it's already too late to fix the damage.

* Which is why increases to education and infrastructure spending are much, much harder to sell to the public than they should be. The economic benefits are real, but they happen, by and large, during the reign of a different government, years into the future. Basically, you put in all this work and someone else gets all the credit for it.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Better or worse than the yank system though? Just non-mandatory voting wise, not even thinking about the way electoral collages work or anything.
 
F

Fredescu

Member
viciouskillersquirrel said:
I don't know if it's better now, but everything I learned about parliamentary democracy and the Westminster system, apart from the name, I learned from the Internet.
Click to expand...

I learnt about all that in high school. We had a trip to the parliament house and had to learn the constitution and everything. I think that class may have been an elective though.

Antony Green believes mandatory voting entrenches the major parties: http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...litical-parties-and-compulsory-voting/4836086

Unrelated:
BS5g9esCQAA3CIG.jpg



Jintor said:
Better or worse than the yank system though? Just non-mandatory voting wise, not even thinking about the way electoral collages work or anything.
Click to expand...

Preferential voting good. Mandatory voting... maybe bad.
 
B

bomma_man

Member
viciouskillersquirrel said:
This is the other side of the coin when it comes to mandatory voting. By virtue of the act, you pull in a lot of disengaged voters, many of whom vote based on half remembered things they heard on the news and only the vaguest notions of how government policies affect their lives. It's no surprise that these people, when asked about the issues, get them completely muddled.

There are people, for instance, who vote in federal elections that form their opinions based on stuff the state government is responsible for and vice versa.

This stuff really needs to be taught in schools.
Click to expand...

Conversely though there is no need to energise an insane base like there is in America.

But yes education is the key. I've said it before an I'll say it again: it's insane that maths, science, and English are all full courses yet history, law, civics and economics are all combined into one catch all subject, if they're even mentioned at all. Sometimes I feel like it's intentional.
 
H

hidys

Member
Moxx19 said:
That video just made me lose the little bit of faith that I still had left in humanity.

" Tony Abbott is for families, I'm sorry, no gays are not good, no abortions, just no."

That was so terrible I think it gave me brain cancer. How the fuck does anyone think like this?
Click to expand...

It is CLEARLY satire.
 
V

viciouskillersquirrel

Member
CrazedProfessional said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag-mFowwGho
Click to expand...
I laughed, but he may have some real, well-reasoned opinions that underpin his conservative voting habits. It's just that when he tries to put them into words, he starts thinking about the families, and the jobs, and the weak leadership and how they knew and Wayne Swann and economy and her and how the country is being stolen and sold to China and the families, he just gets so darn angry that it all comes out as an incoherent mess. A lot of very intelligent people are poor public speakers. It's not his fault.

Putting the result up on Youtube, now that is his fault.

EDIT: Wait, satire? Wow. Had me fooled.
 
C

Card Boy

Banned
Might vote Palmer. I got a feeling he is going pay for stuff out of his own pocket if he wins, i wouldn't mind a Titanic 2 while we are at it.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I believe in gay boat abortions for everyone.
 
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