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[Arksy]

If she survives this episode, I feel like the Abbot government will not. She needs to resign. Hell, it's only Abbott that's sticking by her at this stage. This will dominate the news for a few more days yet.

As it should, playing around with entitlements on behalf of the public is no joke.

 

[bobnowhere]

Look like Newscorp must be smelling blood to have that as a front page. Though the ALP is a mile ahead in Victoria so they are probably following the mood. Now if the Terrorgraph or Courier Mail came out with something like that, stick a fork in her, she's done.

I've always thought the real end of a politician comes not when they do something wrong, or get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, but when they become an object of ridicule. All power is lost and with the over active nature of social media nowadays, Bronnie's moment has come.

Also how awesome was Hewitt today, life in the old dog yet!

 

[danm999]

Congratulations Bronwyn.

You could probably have resigned days ago and spared yourself the inevitable embarrassment. It would have been bad, but it probably would have blown over by now.

But by waiting for a week and refusing to acknowledge any wrongdoing, and allowing Tony Abbott to spend his already meager political capital and defend you publicly, and by giving every journo an incentive to dig through everything you did, you've made it all the easier for those of us who wish to see your government collapse like a dying star.

 

[hidys]

Not only does this hurt Abbott but it almost completely diverts attention away from Bill Shorten after his RC appearance.

They really have to fire her.

 

[Arksy]

Not only does this hurt Abbott but it almost completely diverts attention away from Bill Shorten after his RC appearance.

They really have to fire her.

It's too late, no one remembers that now. Even I had forgotten it.

 

[DrSlek]

Yes, re-branding from customs to something that sounds like a Saturday morning cartoon costs money, likely orders of magnitude more than a helicopter ride.

Perhaps they plan on making the money back when they air the new border force reality show. I can't be the only one who thought of those crappy customs shows when we heard the name "Border Force".

 

[hidys]

It's too late, no one remembers that now. Even I had forgotten it.

The story would probably have died out in a month on its own, since there was little of substance actually revealed, unless you count treating political donation laws with contempt which every politician does.

Still though if it wasn't for this it probably would have gotten at least a week of traction.

 

[Arksy]

The story would probably have died out in a month on its own, since there was little of substance actually revealed, unless you count treating political donation laws with contempt which every politician does.

Still though if it wasn't for this it probably would have gotten at least a week of traction.

Out of all of the RC hearings his was the least interesting, by far.

 

[Fredescu]

I am unspeakably disappointed in this country at the moment.

How has the level of discourse sunk so low?
How has it reached a point where neo nazis are permitted, tolerated and even encouraged by MPS to exercise freedom of speech which is basically a return to White Australia sentiments?

Peddle fear and people get scared. When they get scared, they become irrational. The media has peddled fear for yonks, but now that the government is doing it too, a few more people are being pushed over the edge. They'll get voted back in too.

Out of all of the RC hearings his was the least interesting, by far.

He still got smashed in the polls for it. They got their $60 million worth.

It's a bit of a shame that some anti-racism protestors attempted to break through police lines in the Melbourne protests.

Yeah, don't do that. It's a bit ugly when the good guys are misbehaving more than the people they're protesting against.

Yeah, that's bad.

Edit: Found this too:

People are salivating over a context-less high 5 photo, but there seems to be very little criticism of the protesters in Melbourne who were actually threatening violence. That's a fairly disappointing response from the leader on the subject. Learn to peaceful protest.

 

[bomma_man]

The right are throwing her under the bus, even Bolt. She's done.

 

[Fredescu]

Thought this was interesting:

 

[Shaneus]

The right are throwing her under the bus, even Bolt. She's done.

Yeah, I think the writing's pretty much on the wall.

Though it should've been when it was clear she showed zero partiality as speaker when less than 1% of people she booted from question time were of her own party.

 

[Arksy]

Yeah, I think the writing's pretty much on the wall.

Though it should've been when it was clear she showed zero partiality as speaker when less than 1% of people she booted from question time were of her own party.

All speakers are partial and bias. She's scum but that's a pretty strange criticism.

 

[Jintor]

All speakers are partial and bias. She's scum but that's a pretty strange criticism.

they're uuuuuusually better at hiding it

 

[Fredescu]

All speakers are partial and bias. She's scum but that's a pretty strange criticism.

She's kicked out more people than any speaker in history, and they haven't even been in power for two years. Maybe they're all biased, but she's clearly the most militant at it.

 

[Dead Man]

All speakers are partial and bias. She's scum but that's a pretty strange criticism.

Just because people are fallible criticising blatant impartiality is strange? Get off it.

 

[Dryk]

All speakers are partial and bias. She's scum but that's a pretty strange criticism.

It's so obvious that she's not even trying though.

 

[Arksy]

Just because people are fallible criticising blatant impartiality is strange? Get off it.

I don't mean the people are fallible and unintentionally bias. All speakers are partisans and have no qualms about using power to benefit their party. Do people not remember how the ALP shut down debate using the speaker every time questions got a bit uncomfortable in the last parliament? It's the same with every speaker in our nation's history..
And will be the case with every speaker to come. I'm not trying to defend Bishop here, she needs to go..but being upset because she's partisan is strange because the next speaker isn't going to be much better.

 

[hirokazu]

When they say "Reclaim Australia" it would seem to imply it was theirs initially.

There are some Aboriginal flags bandied about for some reason.

 

[Jintor]

I don't mean the people are fallible and unintentionally bias. All speakers are partisans and have no qualms about using power to benefit their party. Do people not remember how the ALP shut down debate using the speaker every time questions got a bit uncomfortable in the last parliament? It's the same with every speaker in our nation's history..
And will be the case with every speaker to come. I'm not trying to defend Bishop here, she needs to go..but being upset because she's partisan is strange because the next speaker isn't going to be much better.

Is it so wrong to aspire to better, arksy :<

 

[Arksy]

Is it so wrong to aspire to better, arksy :<

Not at all but nothing will change unless the rules do.

 

[hidys]

Just what the hell is going on with the NT government?

Also apparently there is a boat.

 

[Shaneus]

She's kicked out more people than any speaker in history, and they haven't even been in power for two years. Maybe they're all biased, but she's clearly the most militant at it.

Don't forget the ratio. As of the end of June she'd kicked out 400 in total, 393 of which were Labor.

 

[Fredescu]

but being upset because she's partisan is strange because the next speaker isn't going to be much better.

Clearly the issue is the degree to which she is partisan. Given that we have actual numbers on this, your "everyone is biased!" argument is pretty weak.

 

[hirokazu]

Don't forget the ratio. As of the end of June she'd kicked out 400 in total, 393 of which were Labor.

What was the ratio for the previous record holder?

 

[senahorse]

Just for reference:

Bishop's numbers here are out of date but gives some perspective I guess.

 

[Arksy]

Looking at the numbers aside from Anna Burke each speaker in recent history has thrown out significantly more opposition mps than government. I feel somewhat vindicated.

 

[Fredescu]

Any idea when that was taken? It would be interesting to calculate her strike rate now. I don't know what's more amazing, that she's kicked out three people a day, or that someone is defending that fact.

 

[Arksy]

Any idea when that was taken? It would be interesting to calculate her strike rate now. I don't know what's more amazing, that she's kicked out three people a day, or that someone is defending that fact.

Who's defending the fact fact? Cause I don't see anyone here defending the practice. I certainly am not.

 

[senahorse]

It was from October last year.

edit: October 19 to be exact.

 

[Fredescu]

Who's defending the fact fact? Cause I don't see anyone here defending the practice. I certainly am not.

Using percentages as a means to play down charges of bias is absolutely defending her. Those numbers are astounding, 3 per day when the next highest is 1.5 is Bradman levels of dominance, and you're sitting here saying she's no worse than anyone else.

 

[Fredescu]

It was from October last year.

edit: October 19 to be exact.

If my working is right, her average is up to 3.03. No crappy Bradman "almost there" averages for her.

My working:
5 x 4 day sitting weeks after Oct 19 in 2014 plus 10 x 4 day sitting weeks until the end of June in 2015 plus the existing 72 sitting days is 132 sitting days. 400/132 = 3.03

 

[Arksy]

Using percentages as a means to play down charges of bias is absolutely defending her. Those numbers are astounding, 3 per day when the next highest is 1.5 is Bradman levels of dominance, and you're sitting here saying she's no worse than anyone else.

Ridiculous argument, "it's only bad because she's doing it more!" - It's always bad.

 

[Fredescu]

Ridiculous argument, "it's only bad because she's doing it more!" - It's always bad.

Agreed, whoever you quoted there made a ridiculous argument. It is always bad. More bad is always worse. More than double the amount of bad compared to anyone in history is worthy of a bit more comment than "eh, everyone does it, it's structural."

 

[Dryk]

The real take away from those numbers is that Peter Slipper was apparently the most even-handed speaker in ages

 

[Shaneus]

Any idea when that was taken? It would be interesting to calculate her strike rate now. I don't know what's more amazing, that she's kicked out three people a day, or that someone is defending that fact.

For reference, since then she's booted another 189 MPs out. 1 of which was a government MP, 188 were opposition. For those not good at maths, that's a ratio of 188:1.

 

[Arksy]

Agreed, whoever you quoted there made a ridiculous argument. It is always bad. More bad is always worse. More than double the amount of bad compared to anyone in history is worthy of a bit more comment than "eh, everyone does it, it's structural."

I will insist that it is structural, and should be changed. Yes, given the numbers she HAS gone further than most and that is a mark against her...but I still maintain that it's a bad system that needs to be changed. How? I don't know. In the UK they both nominate a guy who runs unopposed to be speaker...but that's kind of dodgy as well, but they seem to have much more impartial speakers than we do. The US is pretty political, but it doesn't matter so much because their rules are a bit more rigid. NFI how Canada's works.

 

[Fredescu]

I will insist that it is structural, and should be changed.

I'm not disagreeing with you there, our current setup doesn't seem particularly clever. I just happen to think that firing Bronwyn Bishop into the sun would also result in a marked improvement.

 

[D.Lo]

It is natural that oppositions get booted more than governments - Governments have nothing (or much less) to get upset or yell about since they're making the rules.

If all was fair more Libs would have been booted, because they're the worst behaved Government I've ever seen. But apart from whining about the Senate, they're largely being smug cunts, which by itself isn't bootable.

 

[Fredescu]

Of course Mike Baird and Tony Abbott want to increase the GST to 15%. Because they're cunts that's what cunts do.

 

[Dryk]

Of course Mike Baird and Tony Abbott want to increase the GST to 15%. Because they're cunts that's what cunts do.

Jay Weatherhill's behind it too. Kind of bugs me that the federal government's squeeze is paying off for them.

 

[Fredescu]

Jay Weatherhill's behind it too. Kind of bugs me that the federal government's squeeze is paying off for them.

Lobbyists spruiking for it to cover all goods and services: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/07/20/gst-change-should-go-further-experts


They say:

"It is clear that the tax base has to be broadened because we are going to have less people working and paying income tax," he said.

"If we don't, the burden on income taxpayers will sky rocket."

And then!

But more importantly it would allow for $96 billion worth of cuts to personal income tax.

"There are so many people on average incomes that are moving into higher income tax brackets, it's ridiculous," Mr Ward told AAP on Monday.

"Raise the GST because income tax won't be enough! Use the GST to allow us to collect less income tax!"

Could not be any more transparently eat the poor, wind back progressive taxation if you tried.

 

[hirokazu]

Looking at the numbers aside from Anna Burke each speaker in recent history has thrown out significantly more opposition mps than government. I feel somewhat vindicated.

Indeed, but the only record Bishop has not broken is the 100% opposition strikes from Ian Sinclair.

He was at least conservative with the ejections though. When you put both strike rate and percentage opposition together, Bishop's track record is still unprecedented.

 

[danm999]

One wonders precisely what a Coalition MP has to do to get thrown out by Bishop.

Didn't some dipshit bring boat fuel in or something?

 

[hirokazu]

It is natural that oppositions get booted more than governments - Governments have nothing (or much less) to get upset or yell about since they're making the rules.

I think you're right. Peter Slipper, for example, was a Liberal speaker for a Labor government and he followed the trend of having booted out more of the opposition despite coming from the opposition party himself...

The real take away from those numbers is that Peter Slipper was apparently the most even-handed speaker in ages

...But! His opposition strike rate is the lowest in recent history due to the suggested inherent speaker bias.

 

[bobnowhere]

One wonders precisely what a Coalition MP has to do to get thrown out by Bishop.

Didn't some dipshit bring boat fuel in or something?

Andrew Lamming, in the Federation Chamber. Lamming was also one of ones caught fiddling with their "printer allowance" at the end of Howard's time.

I seem to remember at least 2 of the coalition removals were pretty suspicious, they came just after the media was harping on about bias and then, viola!, a coalition member was thrown out. Pretty sure they took one for the team, media cycle.

 

[Yagharek]

Looking at the numbers aside from Anna Burke each speaker in recent history has thrown out significantly more opposition mps than government. I feel somewhat vindicated.

When you factor in how feral the last LNP opposition was, they are lucky the number wasn't twice as high.

 

[Bernbaum]

Is the issue the cost of the helicopter flight or did she try and hide it?

 

[danm999]

Is the issue the cost of the helicopter flight or did she try and hide it?

Well, both.

Also that it shouldn't have been covered by travel expense given she wasn't going to perform an official duty.

 

[Fredescu]

Is the issue the cost of the helicopter flight or did she try and hide it?

Mostly the fact that it was used for party business rather than parliamentary business.