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AusPoliGAF |OT| Boats? What Boats?
- Thread starter Bernbaum
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Elaugaufein
Member
How would that even work ? The pension is already means tested so a lot of people on it have no estates with which to pay it back. Many of them don't even own their own houses (so there goes that idea). I'm absolutely sure that you can't pass debt by bloodline (though people will try and get relatives to accept the debt of the deceased, real classy that fellas).
Would be easier and fairer to have an inheritance tax on wealthy estates.
Elaugaufein
Member
Except people hear about a "Death" Tax and freak out. Seriously there was 10 minutes of people freaking out about Struggling Mums and Dads on ABC Local Radio when a proposal was mentioned for an Estate Tax on Estates over $5 000 000 , excluding a primary residence or family business.
FFS you can have an estate under that value while generating enough passive income to put you as an individual in the top 1% of Household Income Earners and that's neglecting the property exception. Such struggle.
Candescence
Member
A lot of that idiotic behaviour partly boils down to many high earners thinking they're battlers.
Now Ian Macfarlane is quitting federal politics, if mainly because he's upset that he's not in cabinet.
Now Ian Macfarlane is quitting federal politics, if mainly because he's upset that he's not in cabinet.
Elaugaufein
Member
Some of it comes from the Work vs Wealth dilemma. Someone who's making $90 000/yr a year in purely passive income probably feels significantly better off than someone who's working full time to make $180 000/yr. The capacity to do whatever the fuck you want is a pretty big part of the feeling of being rich and if you're tied to a job you can't.
D.Lo
Member
You are still a MORON if you think you are battling on 180k. Almost four times the median.
That's a good idea, asset rich people in giant houses on the full pension is ridiculous. I have seen it myself, divorced rich housewives in the eastern suburbs on the dole and pension. They own a $5 million house outright, but are on welfare.
Or do it the other way around, just include primary residence on the pension/welfare asset test. If we can't bring ourselves to have a wealth tax, we should at least not hand out welfare to people with massive assets.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'm not disagreeing with that.
Marky Mark
Member
If there was ever a bigger piece of shit to disgrace this earth I haven't seen them.
e: oh and chainsaw's quitting politics after his massive self-own
That breaks my brain. On over 200k a year and living paycheck to paycheck.
It's why it was a brilliant term from Howard and his team, it's the sort of rhetoric that implies a lot of things but lots of people can clearly project themselves onto it despite reality.
D.Lo
Member
Good show
If anything it just proves the rich are equally as stupid as anyone else. If you can't understand the simplest of statistics and have the tiniest bit of perspective, well, you didn't get rich from yours smarts, did you?
Elaugaufein
Member
Good show
If anything it just proves the rich are equally as stupid as anyone else. If you can't understand the simplest of statistics and have the tiniest bit of perspective, well, you didn't get rich from yours smarts, did you?
I got rich the traditional way: By inheritance.
I saw a fantastic twitter meme about this a few weeks ago on a feed of an indigenous man.
It read something like this:
"ANZAC day? Lest we forget."
"Bali bombings? Never forget."
"Stolen land, genocide, invasion, stolen generations, stolen wages, high unemployment, high prison rates? Get over it"
Pretty fucking scathing. Aboriginal people have every right to be livid about the way they are told to stfu. This country is collectively racist towards them and callous about helping fix the system in return.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'm pretty sure we've already forgotten ANZAC day and Rememberance day. We almost worship the mythical cultural significance of these things rather than their reality.
We should only be reminded of the things that paint us in a good light as a nation thank you very much.
Thank god the stolen generation was sent to white Australian families and religious institutions, places where alcohol, drug and sexual abuse have never really been an issue.
Indeed. It's just a cynical exercise in corporate nationalism now.
Marky Mark
Member
My family (moreso my Nanna and her siblings) are well aware of these "benefits" afforded to us. Hence why this man's opinions enrage and infuriate me.
Elaugaufein
Member
Did anyone actually need that hint?
We can't have marriage equality because people will think the head of the ACL is gay.
http://m.samesame.com.au/news/13294...rriage-equality--in-case-people-think-hes-gay
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-...acks-plans-for-tough-anti-terror-laws/7170270
Committee supports even more draconian anti-terrorism laws.
So unsurprising. Might as well remove the age minimum while they are there.
Committee supports even more draconian anti-terrorism laws.
So unsurprising. Might as well remove the age minimum while they are there.
the acl does!
Yeah, it's pure unadulterated ignorance at best, or unfettered malice at worst when people say shit like that.
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert but a lot of people don't realise that this is not ancient history. People who experienced this are at or around middle age right now. Some younger, many older and still living with the consequences.
If people like Jones can't empathise with how awful that must have been then I guess the only label left for them is fascist.
They have no heart.
What's the general thoughts on Labor's pitch?
I'm in a position where I co-own my home now (with the bank) but my brother who is only a couple of years younger is in a position where he will struggle now to get a job because he delayed study and even if/when he gets a good job will struggle to save required deposits.
Does Shorten's plan go far enough? Probably not. I'd hate to have to be in a city like Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane even where prices are unaffordable. Perth is bad enough, and that has gone backwards recently. Slightly.
Candescence
Member
Maybe not far enough, but grandfathering and limiting negative gearing to new properties will do a lot of deflate the bubble considerably. Of course, the property lobby will fight tooth and nail against such policy with all sorts of debunked nonsense.
Elaugaufein
Member
I've now received payment for all the Crikey subs. Thanks everyone, I'll pm you all in December about renewal. If you want to drop out before then drop me a PM. You all have my email address too, so you can use that if you can't send a PM for some reason.
And as a reminder: You can join the group sub at anytome at pro rata rates by contacting me so if you become interested of your sub is going to end feel free to drop me a line.
And as a reminder: You can join the group sub at anytome at pro rata rates by contacting me so if you become interested of your sub is going to end feel free to drop me a line.
bobnowhere
Member
Oldish news, but I just found out Clive Palmer is polling at about 2% in his own electorate. I wonder if he'll even bother a tilt at the senate or just ride off into the sunset on a dinosaur?
Elaugaufein
Member
He ended Campbell Newman's government so he's probably pretty happy.
Candescence
Member
He also saw off Abbot, despite actually being somewhat complicit in passing certain Abbot policies, so he's probably happy about that, too.
Over at The Guardian, Kristina Keneally notes that Turnbull's style of PM-ship is disturbingly like Rudd's, and also basically admits that "I thought Labor's accusations of Turnbull being Abbot with a new coat of paint was nonsense, but five months later, they're completely right, no real policy change or substance whatsoever."
It'll be interesting to see how polls react if Turnbull doesn't rectify his problem of not actually providing anything that isn't different from what Abbot did. Granted, he eventually will, he'll have to, but he can't leave it too late, Labor is seriously looking more "agile" than the government is supposed to be, according to Turnbull.
Speaking of which, Pope strikes again:
Over at The Guardian, Kristina Keneally notes that Turnbull's style of PM-ship is disturbingly like Rudd's, and also basically admits that "I thought Labor's accusations of Turnbull being Abbot with a new coat of paint was nonsense, but five months later, they're completely right, no real policy change or substance whatsoever."
It'll be interesting to see how polls react if Turnbull doesn't rectify his problem of not actually providing anything that isn't different from what Abbot did. Granted, he eventually will, he'll have to, but he can't leave it too late, Labor is seriously looking more "agile" than the government is supposed to be, according to Turnbull.
Speaking of which, Pope strikes again:
Candescence
Member
An early DD election would be a massive gamble that could very easily end in tears for the Coalition. The electorate generally isn't keen on early elections, and a DD election, even with changes to senate voting rules (which would require the Coalition giving in to the demands of the Greens and Xenophon, who both want the rules to be better for both voters and smaller parties), might not necessarily make the senate less hostile to the Coalition - certain crossbench senators are still damn popular in their own constituencies, and both the Greens and Xenophon have the potential to win big.
And that's assuming Shorten doesn't make a comeback and actually triumph over Turnbull. Though, to be frank, that's becoming a bit more of an easier task by the day, since Turnbull and his cabinet seems to be dithering on actual policy, and what they might announce seems to be a watered-down attempt at tackling negative gearing.
And that's assuming Shorten doesn't make a comeback and actually triumph over Turnbull. Though, to be frank, that's becoming a bit more of an easier task by the day, since Turnbull and his cabinet seems to be dithering on actual policy, and what they might announce seems to be a watered-down attempt at tackling negative gearing.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I'm just shocked that we're even having the conversation. I never thought I'd live to see the day.
Well, actually I did, but I thought it would come about in the wake of a massive property market crash.
Well, actually I did, but I thought it would come about in the wake of a massive property market crash.
Even though Turnbull is basically acting like a lame duck US President at this point, Shorten is polling so low I'm not sure it will matter. I'm wondering if he's biding time to take his policies to an election. If he wins it'll be much easier to bring the rest of the party into line.
bobnowhere
Member
It's bizzare really, now they are talking about a July election and the only way to do that is to call a DD after the budget in May or June or even more bizarrely just a House election. Now I don't know the exact process the GG goes through to decided whether a DD can be called but I'd be very surprised if he didn't come straight back to the government and ask why the rush and why they can't just wait till July and have a normal election, house and half senate?
It doesn't matter how much they dislike the crossbench, they were elected via the rules at the time and just to flush them half-way through their terms for the sake of one month would be a massive call by the GG.
Shrek's back!
D.Lo
Member
That's what I'm thinking now. He can take control of the narrative whenever he wants, and literally has control of the timeline.
That's why the federal government needs fixed terms, the ability to call an election is such a dramatic advantage for the incumbent.
Candescence
Member
Turnbull says house prices will fall under Labor's NG policy.
thatsthepoint.jpg
So... Repeating your predecessor's idiotic talking points. So much for a change in PM.
thatsthepoint.jpg
So... Repeating your predecessor's idiotic talking points. So much for a change in PM.
Jesus Mal what the fuck.
Even spinning it as "Labor will hurt property prices" you're basically admitting capital gains taxes and negative gearing are inflating the property market beyond its actual value.
At least Abbott admitted he didn't want property prices to fall because he himself owned property.
bobnowhere
Member
Howard and Costello were very effective at fostering a "Fuck you, got mine" motivation into a group of voters that were probably traditional Labor supporters in outer suburbs and that is what they are tapping into. It's not really a surprise he went this way. House prices may have risen from 2-2.5 times wages to more than 6 on the back of tax breaks, terrible state/territory governments and just plain poor town planning but they will only pay lip service to it and claim some BS like raising all boats will allow all to reach their dream of ownership even though house growth way outstrips wage growth.
In 3 years time we'll have the same argument and nothing will have changed.
D.Lo
Member
Basically, around 2/3 of the voting age population owns or has a mortgage (around 1/3 each). The other 1/3 rents. It's of course not that clean, broad brush strokes etc.
So from the libs perspective it's electoral suicide to have property prices fall or even stall.
It's an especially big problem for the mortgage holders, because they paid inflated prices. It does hurt a 'battler' to reduce the value of their recently purchased home. And they are also most likely to be swinging voters in outer suburbs. In broad strokes, the renters are all younger labor/greens voters, and the owners are all old Liberal voters.
So that's why he's doing this.
It was honestly brave of Shorten to bring it up - he's calculating on enough of 2/3 to 'think of the children' enough to sacrifice their own advantage for the sake of the future.
So from the libs perspective it's electoral suicide to have property prices fall or even stall.
It's an especially big problem for the mortgage holders, because they paid inflated prices. It does hurt a 'battler' to reduce the value of their recently purchased home. And they are also most likely to be swinging voters in outer suburbs. In broad strokes, the renters are all younger labor/greens voters, and the owners are all old Liberal voters.
So that's why he's doing this.
It was honestly brave of Shorten to bring it up - he's calculating on enough of 2/3 to 'think of the children' enough to sacrifice their own advantage for the sake of the future.
Candescence
Member
Still, for a PM who claims to want to elevate the political discussion and actually respect the people's intelligence, for Turnbull to resort to the classic scare campaign backed only by bullshit is really pathetic.
when u go full abbott & own yo self
It's nice to see the ALP actually start to come out with their inclusive growth focused policies they've been brainstorming and talking to the media about for the last two years.
It's nice to see the ALP actually start to come out with their inclusive growth focused policies they've been brainstorming and talking to the media about for the last two years.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'm not sure I can deal with a Labor party with ideas that sticks to them.
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