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[ambientmystic]

No fucks given. We're not talking about innocent mules who're duped into tranporting the drugs in their briefcases via the old switcheroo, these people are fully aware of what they're smuggling, and should thus be ready to face the consequences.

8 kgs of heroine is not for recreational use lol. Street value has got to be in the millions of dollars, they gambled big and lost this round.

 

[dejay]

Every Australian at least knows of Indonesia's tough drug laws. I'm not a fan of them but you're stupid if you break them.

 

[cutmeamango]

You guys keep ignoring ethical principles in favor of cultural relativism and I don't know why.

Which ethical principles? Whose ethical principles?

 

[SapientWolf]

No fucks given. We're not talking about innocent mules who're duped into tranporting the drugs in their briefcases via the old switcheroo, these people are fully aware of what they're smuggling, and should thus be ready to face the consequences.

8 kgs of heroine is not for recreational use lol. Street value has got to be in the millions of dollars, they gambled big and lost this round.

The death penalty still seems excessive here.

 

[Ran Echelon]

Indonesia shouldn't be conducting human sacrifice in peace time. Or any other country for that matter.

You know you can condemn both the heroine smuggling AND shitty unethical laws right?

You know people can have different opinions on what's unethical right?

 

[StopMakingSense]

It's the most populous muslim country in the world.

Also the 4th most populous country in the world, which a lot of people don't realize.

 

[Canis lupus]

Nobody has denied that, but we're wondering why you're so nonchalant about it, as if Indonesia should be allowed to do this without protest/indignation.

They shouldnt be allowed to punish criminals in the way they want, a traditional punishment for drug trafficking for many countries in the region? Looks like even America applies this type of punishment for drug kingpins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking#cite_note-2

 

[Angry Fork]

Which ethical principles? Whose ethical principles?

Whichever ones are argued to be the most ethical and reasonable. I'm wondering what makes you think someone should get the death penalty for drug offenses. The death penalty shouldn't be allowed full stop in peace time on a captured person but even then people usually only advocate it for mass murderers.

If people don't think they should get the death penalty, then they shouldn't also say 'oh well, Indonesian law, so who cares'. A few seem to be particularly strident against the drug offenders, but lenient and nonchalant on Indonesian laws.

They shouldnt be allowed to punish criminals in the way they want, a traditional punishment for drug trafficking for many countries in the region? Looks like even America applies this type of punishment for drug kingpins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking#cite_note-2

We share company with some mighty fine countries...

 

[Arksy]

We share company with some mighty fine countries...

Yeah. Mostly countries with no democracies or incredibly flawed democracies.

 

[choodi]

Hey kids, don't smuggle drugs to or from Indonesia.

Fucking scum knew about the penalties before they did it and still went ahead with it. Clearly not their first time either.

These two also got seven other idiots involved.

 

[Arksy]

To be fair the Australian government has tried again and again to help these guys. We've even had a chief of police fly over to commute one of the death sentences to life. The Australian government really just wants to commute all the sentences.

I don't think their plea that they've reformed will fall on deaf ears in Indonesia, I haven't done much actual study of the legal system but I've heard a lot of anecdotes of leniency in the face of humility. People who plead guilty and don't resist arrest, cooperate with police are treated a lot more leniently than they are in Western legal systems.

 

[Madness]

Hey kids, don't smuggle drugs to or from Indonesia.

Fucking scum knew about the penalties before they did it and still went ahead with it. Clearly not their first time either.

These two also got seven other idiots involved.

People make mistakes. How is killing them ever going to teach then anything? It's why I'm in favor of the death penalty but only for murderers, killers, terrorists who target innocent civilians. If you deliberately and wilfully kill someone you deserve the death penalty.

I'm against the death penalty for drug smugglers. Give them 10-20 years. But to kill them? Come on. We should be calling out draconian laws worldwide. Who gives a shit if they make the laws?

Half the times, these people are poor mules who are tricked into these things or forced into it. I don't know, some of you folks are just too casual with someone's life.

 

[Arksy]

People make mistakes. How is killing them ever going to teach then anything? It's why I'm in favor of the death penalty but only for murderers, killers, terrorists who target innocent civilians. If you deliberately and wilfully kill someone you deserve the death penalty.

I'm against the death penalty for drug smugglers. Give them 10-20 years. But to kill them? Come on. We should be calling out draconian laws worldwide. Who gives a shit if they make the laws?

Half the times, these people are poor mules who are tricked into these things or forced into it. I don't know, some of you folks are just too casual with someone's life.

You do realise that this was a group of nine who were arrested, with the death sentence only applying to two of them? It's not like they were indiscriminate with their penalties.

 

[Man]

Darwin award. No way they weren't aware of the penalties beforehand.

 

[Arksy]

Darwin award. No way they weren't aware of the penalties beforehand.

No way in hell. The customs declaration as you fly in even states that the death penalty applies to drug traffickers.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Eh...

Those amount of drugs can screw a lot of people, and they're clearly ok with it. So if they got screwed instead.... *shrugs*

You can't just do the whole "I am reformed now help me please!" once you have harsh penalty staring at you and expect people to believe it.

 

[choodi]

People make mistakes. How is killing them ever going to teach then anything? It's why I'm in favor of the death penalty but only for murderers, killers, terrorists who target innocent civilians. If you deliberately and wilfully kill someone you deserve the death penalty.

I'm against the death penalty for drug smugglers. Give them 10-20 years. But to kill them? Come on. We should be calling out draconian laws worldwide. Who gives a shit if they make the laws?

Half the times, these people are poor mules who are tricked into these things or forced into it. I don't know, some of you folks are just too casual with someone's life.

These were the two ring leaders. There was no one forcing them to do anything. They were actually the ones doing the recruiting.

For the record, I don't support the death penalty, but I do support a sovereign nation's right to enact its laws as it sees fit.

The crime and punishment for drug trafficking is clear and well advertised in Indonesia. Don't try it and you won't die by firing squad.

 

[morch]

Heroin kills and I'm sure the drug traffickers know it. Not that this gives ground for the death penalty but it's not entirely senseless.

heroin kills like alcohol kills and tobacco kills

there's a lot of people quite stable in their dependency on opiates (heroin isn't even the worst, oxycodone is, but it's just the most well known traditionally)

 

[cutmeamango]

Whichever ones are argued to be the most ethical and reasonable. I'm wondering what makes you think someone should get the death penalty for drug offenses. The death penalty shouldn't be allowed full stop in peace time on a captured person but even then people usually only advocate it for mass murderers.

If people don't think they should get the death penalty, then they shouldn't also say 'oh well, Indonesian law, so who cares'. A few seem to be particularly strident against the drug offenders, but lenient and nonchalant on Indonesian laws.

Most ethical ethics?
I'd go with most 'humane and righteous' to discuss this, and that would say that 'killing is wrong and never justifiable, and for that, always punishable (punishment may vary ) in any form'.
Would you agree with the notion above?

 

[numble]

Harsh drug laws in Asia probably have more to do with the old British opium trade than religion.

 

[DrSlek]

Guys knew that drug smuggling in Indonesia carries the death sentence.

They did it anyway.

They got caught and sentenced to death.


Am I supposed to be sympathetic?

EDIT:

Darwin award. No way they weren't aware of the penalties beforehand.

I'm quite certain there were several other high profile drug smuggling cases featuring Australians in Indonesia only a few months before these idiots got caught, where the accused were in serious danger of receiving the death penalty.

 

[Router]

While I do think it would be much more positive to have them serve their time in the Australian system and work to educate young Australians about how fucking stupid it is to have anything to do with drugs in there countries.... its not going to happen

They're fucked. There's nothing the Australian government can do.

 

[Kettch]

They were smuggling out of Indonesia and into Australia. Logic would dictate that you would defer the punishment to what Australia wants as they're the ones potentially harmed. :/

 

[Router]

Also, Indonesian Execution is old school harsh.

 

[entremet]

Harsh penalty, but there were beyond stupid for trying this.

 

[Poimandres]

Indonesia is really weird. On the plane they give you a slip that says drug trafficking is punishable by death. Then you get there and everyones selling shrooms cause its considered 'natural.'

Didn't know that about shrooms... I'm totally okay with that!

I think this is a very harsh penalty, but they knew the risks going in so it's hard to get too worked up about this.

 

[numble]

Airport sign:

 

[kswiston]

Harsh drug laws in Asia probably have more to do with the old British opium trade than religion.

Probably. A lot of local communities were devastated by addiction.

 

[speedpop]

Harsh drug laws in Asia probably have more to do with the old British opium trade than religion.

Pretty much. Indonesia and Singapore have figurehead laws concerning drug trafficking with most sentences leading to a death penalty - both nations share a border bridged by water, but they are both relatively different cultures & religions.

 

[web01]

They knew the punishment before attempting to smuggle drugs its well publicised here in Australia. I feel little sympathy for them.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Jesus, haven't these guys ever seen an episode of "Locked Up Abroad"? Them's the breaks.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

You gotta wonder how people can be so stupid to do this kinda stuff - the Schapelle Corby case was so publicised here, it's not like Aussies are clueless about the Indonesian drug laws (as if you'd need to be an expert anyway to see it as a bad idea...) I'd never wish death upon someone but it's like... what did you expect?

 

[kswiston]

Looks like there are only about 150 people in Indonesia currently sentenced to death, out of 240M citizens. Seems pretty low even with the harsh drug penalties considering the US has over 3000 people with the same sentence. I would imagine that local corruption gets a lot of people off these types of charges though.

 

[chubigans]

Jesus, haven't these guys ever seen an episode of "Locked Up Abroad"? Them's the breaks.

That show is nuts! Love that show.

 

[Fusebox]

Capital punishment is carried out in Indonesia by a firing squad. The 12 armed executioners shoot the prisoner in the chest. If the prisoner does not die, the Commander is required to issue a final bullet to the prisoner's head

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Indonesia

Seems excessive.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Anyone who says you deserve the death penalty for drug trafficking is ridiculous.

Try this in the US and see how far this gets you. We're not talking about cold blooded murder, terrorism, etc. We're talking about drug trafficking. Give them a harsh sentence, maybe 10-20 years. Indonesian jails are no picnic, but to kill them over this is ridiculous.

Yes they knew the laws there when they went, but that means we shouldn't call out draconian laws when we see them? I have little sympathy for drug traffickers or producers, but I don't feel they deserve to die at all.

If tomorrow a country bans alcohol and all importation and trafficking of it becomes punishable by death, it's alright? What if it was something else?

I would like to see a comparison between deaths caused by drug abuse, the gang violence associated with drug trafficking, terrorisms and homicides.

 

[Poimandres]

You gotta wonder how people can be so stupid to do this kinda stuff - the Schapelle Corby case was so publicised here, it's not like Aussies are clueless about the Indonesian drug laws (as if you'd need to be an expert anyway to see it as a bad idea...) I'd never wish death upon someone but it's like... what did you expect?

I also hate the way the media here in Australia tries to incite outrage from these cases. "Free our Schapelle" and all that crap. There was a huge outcry at how unjust it was and how she was innocent, when it was pretty bloody clear from the outset that she got caught in the act.

If you absolutely have to traffic drugs, you might want to think about targetting a less harsh country.

 

[Qvoth]

indonesian here so i figured i'd give my 2 cents
these guys should really bribe their way out if they're so scared of dying
indonesian jails are notoriously easy to bribe your way out, we had a corrupt dude who was supposedly in jail but turns out he was watching some tennis match on bali when someone there saw him

you can pay your neighbour to take your place in prison

or you can bribe them to basically make your prison cell no different from a hotel

 

[Roche]

They did an incredibly stupid thing, but they don't deserve to be put to death for something like this.

Yeah they acted like idiots in ignoring the laws and the risk but damn at least give them a chance to learn from their idiocy.

 

[Artemisia]

Airport sign:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Indonesia

Seems excessive.

indonesia gurl...

 

[Christina Mackenzie]

indonesian here so i figured i'd give my 2 cents
these guys should really bribe their way out if they're so scared of dying
indonesian jails are notoriously easy to bribe your way out, we had a corrupt dude who was supposedly in jail but turns out he was watching some tennis match on bali when someone there saw him

you can pay your neighbour to take your place in prison

or you can bribe them to basically make your prison cell no different from a hotel

I doubt they have the cash in hand to do so if they are just mules. Also this case might be too conspicuous for them to just sweep it under the rug.

 

[Grunter]

There was a segment on these two on a current affairs show yesterday. One of them has found God and the other organises a community art class.
Although they were the ring leaders of the smuggling attempt it is hard to see how shooting them on a beach is really going to help at this stage.
Better to give them another 20 years doing useful stuff around the prison helping others.

As someone posted you can make life pretty easy for yourself, especially in a Bali prison.
If you have relatives nearby (Schapelle Corby's sister lives in Bali) they can bring you food
and goods to make your life easier.

 

[soxinthebox]

These guys got caught well after Corby right? That was publicised on tv was a lot, so I find it hard to believe they didn't know the risks. That being said the punishment is excessive.

I remember back with Corby how the media shifted from proclaiming her innocence to throwing her under the bus. I got slammed by my work mates for entertaining the idea she wasn't innocent near the beginning and like clockwork they changed their opinion with the tv.

 

[fertygo]

8kg of heroine is big stuff, drug ring kind of shit.. why the hell some of you said its too harsh.

 

[Balphon]

I would like to see a comparison between deaths caused by drug abuse, the gang violence associated with drug trafficking, terrorisms and homicides.

Me too. It'd be a rather poignant illustration of how ineffective the death penalty is as a deterrent.

 

[zoukka]

8kg of heroine is big stuff, drug ring kind of shit.. why the hell some of you said its too harsh.

Because we think civilized countries should not execute people.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Because we think civilized countries should not execute people.

In my experience most people are for the death penalty in certain cases, even ones who claim not to be. If you agree that it's okay to execute people like Saddam, Hitler, Osama or Assad then you are for the death penalty. You just think it should only be applied in certain cases. Some people stop at evil dictators and others stop at drug trafficking or rape. I don't think it makes you uncivilized if you think Hitler deserves the death penalty.

 

[Laughing Banana]

indonesian here so i figured i'd give my 2 cents
these guys should really bribe their way out if they're so scared of dying
indonesian jails are notoriously easy to bribe your way out, we had a corrupt dude who was supposedly in jail but turns out he was watching some tennis match on bali when someone there saw him

you can pay your neighbour to take your place in prison

or you can bribe them to basically make your prison cell no different from a hotel

Nggak mungkiiin, soalnya secara ini kasus sudah tersebar luas beritanya jadi kalau nyuap pasti ketahuan

...

...Um, yea, impossible.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I don't believe in the death penalty for anything less than 1st Degree Murder, but damn...18 lbs of heroin.

As someone who has seen first-hand the toll that drug takes on people (best friend from HS a recovering addict, nearly died twice, fucked up a very promising life; another not-as-close friend actually dead) I can only wonder how many lives that shipment would have ruined/ended if not intercepted.

 

[fertygo]

Because we think civilized countries should not execute people.

Indonesia probably the biggest base of drug user, I hear its have 5-8 million of narcotics addict, pretty high of dead from ODs too. If any crime deserve death sentence, its this one.

If anything thing like this should more often, but Indonesia is corrupt as fuck.. there's plenty that escape from life-imprisonment with bribe, the drug boss.